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So - another 7 mile run at the weekend and I am getting a little frustrated as I just don't seem to be getting quicker this year - I have done the same run five times over the last few months (along with other runs obviously - I run twice a week every week). Ordinarily I'd be expecting to be seeing improvements each week (this is the usual experience). I guess it was pretty warm on Sunday but I did go out early and it wasn't hideously warm.
Anyone got any ideas on how else I can try to improve?
Here are the stats
13 June
Morning Run
1:02:36
5 June
Afternoon Run
1:02:21
22 May
Lunch run
1:01:43
5 March
Morning Run
1:02:57
Anyone got any good links to interesting running sites? Kind of like the STW or the Radavist of running news, reviews, goings on etc.
Subscribe to Like the Wind, but get through it well before the next issue hits.
Anyone got any ideas on how else I can try to improve?
I think start introducing speed work or hill reps. If you're running the same route over and over, you're going to plateau.
Fartlek is good, either on your own just picking a spot to sprint too, or with someone else taking it turns. Alternatively find a good hill and session it.
Anyone got any good links to interesting running sites? Kind of like the STW or the Radavist of running news, reviews, goings on etc.
https://www.irunfar.com/ isn't too bad if you're into trail running. A bit US-centric, perhaps.
I think start introducing speed work or hill reps. If you’re running the same route over and over, you’re going to plateau.
I have only run that route four times in three months - I usually do a long run at the weekend (like that one but anything between 6 and 9 miles - I just happen to have run that one most regularly) then a shorter but quicker run midweek - usually about 2.5 to 4 miles when I can run at around 8.15 pace (longer runs are usually around 9.15 pace).
Alternatively find a good hill and session it.
I am just about to do that one this week - it's a 1.4 mile straight road with a big hill in the middle so I was going to spend an hour going back and forth.
My bad, sorry misread it!
I am just about to do that one this week – it’s a 1.4 mile straight road with a big hill in the middle so I was going to spend an hour going back and forth.
It's a horrible experience, but ultimately good for you.... I tend these days to listen to podcasts when doing stuff like this!
https://www.irunfar.com/ isn’t too bad if you’re into trail running. A bit US-centric, perhaps.
Thanks, will check that out!
Anyone got any ideas on how else I can try to improve?
Join a club and run with faster people, it’s improved my running no end. Going with a group a little quicker than you will soon improve things. Most will also have speed sessions and hill sessions which are much more fun with others than solo.
Anyone got any ideas on how else I can try to improve?
There's two basics of going faster - more speed and more endurance. As a starting point do you know the time splits between the first half and second half distance of the run?
If you are struggling to maintain your pace toward the end of the hour (i.e. second half is slower) you need some long, slower runs to build up endurance. If you are running fairly even splits, then speed sessions are needed to increase your comfortable pace. Things like fartlek, hill repeats intervals etc.
Joining a club is a good idea, or finding a structured training plan and following that should help build up endurance and speed. If you already follow a training plan, finding a different one may help to mix it up a bit.
Somebody once told me their marathon training plan entailed
"Running further. Running faster and running up more hills".
As a starting point do you know the time splits between the first half and second half distance of the run?
Yeah I have Strava so I have all the data however frustratingly I live at the top of a hill so all my runs tend to be downhill for the first half and back up for the second so it's difficult to work out what is going wrong.
I think I am just going to go out and push myself to up the pace I know I can maintain on shorter runs and trust myself I won't blow up.
And a good call re. joining a running club – it is something I have toyed with over the last year.
@alanf I'm afraid I didn't manage to lap everyone last night - 1 guy just eluded me 😀
I was aiming to beat a club-mate's 8:55 and came pretty close at 8:58, but it was a very lonely run, so hopefully plenty more potential with some company. Overall happy and the puke after finishing indicates a pretty hard effort!
Dragonfly shoes felt fine but nothing spectacular. A buddy said it's the day after that they come into their own, as your legs don't get so beaten up, similar to the 4%/Next% on the road.
@turboferret - 🙂 brilliant effort again! and another special time. You should drop that in a competitive race I reckon and the post finish puke shows a very hard effort indeed. Top marks all round.
I managed to bag a pair of the adizero adios pros a while back but not had the nerve to try them yet. How do you find they stack up against the Nike offerings?
From what I gather, none of these super shoes gives you a noticeable sense of extra speed, but they do delay the onset of fatigue meaning you can maintain a higher speed for longer. Any thoughts?
I find that the Adizero feel a bit more normal than a Next%, less squishy on the heel for example, but similarly quick. I would disagree about extra speed - I certainly feel the additional propulsion/bounce from a supershoe, minimising fatigue is a nice additional benefit too, and comes into it's own on longer races, so a bit of a double whammy.
I normally follow an 18-week marathon build and got a shock yesterday to realise that I'm already a few weeks behind for London! I think I've got a decent bit of base banked already though 🙂
Ah OK - well I can report back when I try them. I've also got the adizero pros and they don't have the massive sole but do have the plate and they don't really feel any quicker than regular Adios to me, but that's maybe just my perception or maybe the lack of the extra cush. Will give the big shoes an outing soon!
Yes, I was thinking the same recently, and I've got a half at Kew in September that I need to get rail tickets and accommodation sorted for. It seems to be coming round rather quickly!
Agreed, I think you've got more than an adequate base for London this time.
Took a punt on the NB FuelCell RC Elite v2...they'll be going back...
Really strange shoe, maybe I'm used to Vaporfly's, but they feel heavy and not as bouncy as I expected. They're also quite well built rather than the minimalist build of the VF's. They feel much more like a daily trainer than a race shoe to me.
Fit is actually OK, a little narrow in the forefoot, but definitely useable.
Either way, they're getting sent back and a new shiny pair of VF's are on the way.
At the bonkers/ultra end of the spectrum, Sabrina Verjee is attempting the Wainwrights again - https://live.opentracking.co.uk/sowjune2021/ This is her second attempt this year - she tried at Easter but bad weather and asthma derailed things.
She's currently three hours and a bit up on her schedule which is an hour under the current record of 6 days, 6 hours, 5 minutes. That isn't the women's record, it's the men's. Earlier on she was nearly twelve hours up on schedule but that was probably an insurance buffer.
Well after a tough year and a bit , I seem to finally got rid of covid after a number of stop starts and false hope, I was on a jog with the mrs and somethingin my lung where I'd had pain for months felt like it popped almost like a bone cracking and I could instantly breathe much easierand ive improve day in day out since, in the last 2 months I've managed the three peaks 25mile 5000ft climbs, a hardmoors 29 m 5000ft and the other day another hardmoors 27m 4000ft , not fast but all sub 7 hours elapsed time, happy days
I was going to post about how my sessioning hills went today but I don’t want to take anything away from @firestarter - so well done 👍
Lol don't worry about that mate you post away, I'm just glad to be getting back to it after a lot of pain and false hope I seem to have crossed the bridge back to somewhere, (sounds silly lol but after the year I've had ill stick with it 🙂 )
Despite ot riding a bike in ages I even managed a road ride the other day, first time in over 5 years I did a slow 36 miles with the local club, albeit with baggy shorts and top, peaked lid, 40mm knobblies and discs I got a few looks but I didn't care
And cheers btw 🙂 very happy bunny
25mile 5000ft climbs, a hardmoors 29 m 5000ft and the other day another hardmoors 27m 4000ft , not fast but all sub 7 hours elapsed time
Not fast? Some of us may beg to differ. Impressive recovery and good luck with it continuing.
1st world problem: I decided to look on Sportspursuit to get some cheap shorts for running in. Used the running & shorts filters. Got 3 pairs of shorts for £41. Don't think any of them actually intended for running in. Two Under Armour shorts, one light/mid weight, one light weight, both ok for running in, but too close to the knee in length so hug the top of thigh when lifting knee. One Trespass short, about as short as I'd currently be comfortable wearing, a nice length for this weather, small split at sides, but they're swimming shorts. Maybe I'll cut the mesh out.
Re my running, knee took at least 2 weeks to recover from going for my best estimated 5k. I've run another 10k since and decided to increase frequency to one run in 4 days from one in 5. Feel like I'll need to put off running 10k or going for a best time until adjusted.
Knocked just over 30 seconds off my 5k pb last night with a 22:00.76, would love to break 20mins but at 5'7" and 90kg I'm not really built like a runner.
Well done @nostrils - that's faster than I have ever managed (same height but around 20kg lighter) - I think my personal best on a 5k as about 23 minutes.
As for me - after moaning earlier this week about not having the pace I know I should have right now and saying
I think I am just going to go out and push myself to up the pace I know I can maintain on shorter runs and trust myself I won’t blow up.
I did just that this morning on my favourite 6.7 mile run. Previous best this year was 1:01:43 and did it today in 57:15. Very pleased especially as I had one or two too many beers last night watching the football.
Cheers old bloke
I supported a Ramsay Round yesterday. It was unfortunately unsuccessful but there were at least 4 attempts going on and I'm pretty sure one at least was successful. A busy few days in the Lochaber hills!
Well done Spin, kudos. What section did you assist on?.
Walked the first 60% of the rigby round last week, before we had to change routes due to the wind. I cannot ever imagine doing that in 24 hours!.
I did the Mamores leg but he called it a day on An Gearanach. Nice to be back out in those hills but I'm a bit knackered today as I really haven't been running at all.
I quite fancy doing the Rigby over a few days, I think I've scratched the 24hr itch for now!
Walked the first 60% of the rigby round last week, before we had to change routes due to the wind
It was ridiculously windy all week.
Did another long run last night (for me). A pleasant 9 miles at a steady pace in the evening warmth.
So here's my question - I have a 10k race next Sunday and in the last week I have pushed myself a little harder (a significantly quicker 6 miles on Sunday and a much longer than normal mid-week run last night - two weeks ago I was just doing 2 or 3 miles for my midweek run and I did 9 miles last night). So, with ten days to go, would it be sensible to just do a steady 6 miles this Sunday then a loosener on Wednesday/Thursday next week - just a steady 3 or so miles?
Ohh and my new shoes arrive today (Saucony Guide 14s) I think it's the first time I have ever paid full price for a pair. £125 :-O
It was ridiculously windy all week
It was mental Spin, managed to get first 2 nights in a bit of shelter to camp at Lochan just off Beinn a Chaorainn, then again at Loch Etchachan, up over Derry Cairngorm and Macdui, it was decision time before Mhaim, Devil's point, Cairn Toul and Angel's peak, as camping in 40mph westerly really didn't seem enticing. Not much in the way of hiding places up there.
I'll be back though, I'd like to have a go at it over 2 days, stash near Corrour bothy, but I'd need to get back to hill running again.
I see the record went last weekend? 17 odd hours? mindblowing given the scale of the route.
So, with ten days to go, would it be sensible to just do a steady 6 miles this Sunday then a loosener on Wednesday/Thursday next week – just a steady 3 or so miles?
Not much wrong with that at all, you should be fairly fresh for the race. Personally, I like to do a short and fast run the day before an event as I feel it wakes my legs up, but I know plenty of people who do nothing in the week before so they feel fully recovered.
Ohh and my new shoes arrive today (Saucony Guide 14s) I think it’s the first time I have ever paid full price for a pair. £125 :-O
There comes a point where new shoe day is almost as exciting as new bike day!
Cheers @Lunge
And yes I am excited. I'll be getting the scales out to compare their weight against my old pair (Guide 9s - had them a while as I had two quite long lay-offs with injuries)
had the pleasure of watching Oliver Dustin train at the weekend, he was at the track the same time as my son, 400m reps at between 49 and 51 seconds, unbelievable how fast that is.
Last Friday at 1845 I set off on a long held pipedream to run the Bob Graham Round, solo and sunsupported. The club I'm in does it as an annual event and have quite a few contenders, and its all very highly origanised, which I thought was a bit artificial but until you've done it you can't really comment. In 2017 I did a fully supported BGR (2 helpers, full road support) and completed it comfortably in 21:55.
At the start of the year it looked like 2021 was going to be another fallow year for racing, so it was suggested that I do a solo BGR as it was something I'd always wanted to do. Taking the opportunity I began training for what I thought was never going to happen. Initially it was just going to be a solo run, but then talk of self-supported / unsupported and the various logisitcs and benefits started to be discussed, as well as target times. An unsupported solo round gave me the greatest flexibility, and gave me no excuses to have to go out and try it again in another format.
Over the months I began increasing my training load, however I'd been doing 60 miles per week and 9000ft of climbing since January, but I began to incorporate more long runs on the weekend. In May I did an all nighter starting from Edale at 10pm and did the Kinder Killer route (27 miles, 7000ft ascent / descent) as a shake-down run to test equipment, and myself, again as a solo runner. So at that point I knew I was ready, but due to social engagements and other commitments that was my last(ish) long run before my attempt.
A week before (the 12th June) I took part in the Ennerdale Horseshoe fell race, it was hot and I didn't run as well as I'd hoped, probably not enough sleep the night before, and my body realising that it actually doesn't get on with High5 gels despite using them in training. I finished the race in reasonable shape but this really had sown the seeds of doubt, and I'd started to pick up a few niggles, but worst of all a freshly bruised toenail. However a plan is a plan and it must be executed.
Roll on Friday and we set off up to the Lakes, confident that we'd arrive with 1h45m to get ready, however traffic mena that we didn't arrive at base until about 1800 so a fairly rushed final prep had the adrenaline pumping, and we got to the Moot Hall with a few minutes to spare before setting off. I bumped in to a friend from my club who ws there helping out another group, and then I was off, up Skidaw on quite a humid night. From there on in I was on a good routine of walking the uphills, jogging the flats and downs. I was always increasing my schedule by a couple of minutes at each summit. I had a series of significant milestones that I was slowly working through, the descent of Hall's Fell ridge just before dusk was one of them.
Leg 2 went well and that was the first properly dark time, the lights of other contenders could be occassionally seen, and a number of walkers out and about, something to do with 'Light the Lakes'. This leg went without incident but lost some time on schedule having to stop to take painkillers or sorting out food / clothing, as I didn't stop at the traditional road crossings, there was no need to. Leg 3 started again without event, however there were a few moments in the mist where I was collecting water, or a bit light headed that I thought I'd bitten off more than I could chew, however I was still on schedule for a 22:15, and after all I'd be happy with 23:59!
Everyhting got better once the mist broke and the day warmed up, which was on a surprisingly quiet Sca Fell Pike summit (albeit about 0745), and then the fun climb up Lord's Rake and scramble to Sca Fell. Still ahead of schedule I was feeling good and headed down to Wasdale car park.
Wast Dale, what a change of scenery... one of the more remote parts of the lakes but an incredibly high number of vaping punters / stag parties heading up the hill. I had a quick break to sort out food, change my socks and put some rubbish in the bin. I'd made it this far and it would be rude to phone someone up asking to pick me up, so get on with it. Due to the inordinate amount of time it took to find a bin, I was now 5 minutes behind schedule, however I knew I could claw it back. At the top of Yewbarrow I'd clawed back a minute, and so the pattern continued, but I may need all of that advantage on the 'Last Bastard climb' as it had become known in my head - Great Gable. Great Gable is very visibile for a large part of the round, and it looks amazing, however its prominence always reminding you not to get carried away, as its a sting in the day's tail.
It was ascending Kirk Fell that I felt that the wheels were beginning to fall off - I was climbing the Red Gulley, which I'd raceed down only a week before, however once I'd got on to the top I got in to a good rhythm again, and Great Gable was easier than I'd thought. At the summit I was now 10 minutes up on my schedule, at this rate I may be able to beat my original time, but did I want it badly enough? The only way was to keep plugging away. The next few summits passed and I overtook a team on the way down to Honister I'd been following since Kirk Fell, however they took a wrong turn down to the mine.
No stopping at Honister and grit your teeth for Dale Head, a bit of a kicker but think of everything else that had gone before, just keep plugging away. This was the exact advice I'd given to a distraught walker who enquired about whether the skyline was the top or not as they were worried it was too far away. Up along this ridgeline was a highly organised, popular walking event, a bit of an anaethema to what I'd been doing. On Hindscarth I got chatting to another runner who thought I was perhaps doing a reccie. We discussed my schedule, by which point I was 7 minutes ahead of my original time, so a margin, but not one big enough to get too excited about. The final summit (Robinson) went and then I headed down in to the valley, missing loads of inconsequential short cuts that in the various forums are 'essential', and then eventually I got to the road, 6 or 7 miles of hot tarmac back to the start.
My schedule had a little footnote to say that its 55 minutes on the road back to keswick. I was on 20h20m at that point, which meant that my paper schedule was completely wrong (in my favour) and that I could realistically blow my old time away. However I still had to run! And run I did, however I still had to walk most of the uphills, and the cars in Portinscale are a complete PITA with pedestrians having to shuffle in to the hedges at times! The last bit of path in to Keswick I nearly cried with relief that this whole thing was going to be over, and that I'd done such a good run. I got in to the crowded market square for the final 100 metres, only to be turned back by a COVID ambassador as they had a one way system going on. I had to do an additional lap of the markets to get to the traditional finishing point of the Moot Hall, in perhaps the most understated BG finish ever.
Total time 21 hours, 12 minutes.
Total distance 65.36 miles.
Total ascent 26,949ft.
Shoes - La Sportiva Lycan 2
I carried all my own food, kit and filled up with water from streams along the way.
Phenomenal sir, I could've read a lot more detail than that, but tbh I reckon it's no easy to remember everything! Brilliant, I don't even know you Pieface, but I'm sitting here grinning for you.
I hope to have a BGR in me before I get too old.
Very impressive preface, I think I'd have ran through the covid police at the end lol well done mate
Managed another 6 mile at <9min mile pace at the weekend without trying *too* hard as I am 'racing' at the weekend and saving myself for that - quite please to see that my training finally appears to be paying off.
And the new shoes are lovely – so much smoother and more comfortable than the retired pair.
I too am racing at the weekend, a half along the canals between Wolverhampton and Birmingham. Always a fun event, quite a quick course due to the lack of elevation and it finishes outside a pub.
If the weather is good (well, good for running, so cool and some light drizzle!) I'd like to get close to 90 minutes, though there are no guarantees as I still consider myself in the comeback stage.
Good luck - I think my version of 'racing' is far removed from yours though LOL!
Nice one @Pieface - similar distance to the race I've got next week, but with about 2000m more climbing... and I'm guessing from your description part of the challenge is the navigation?
Good luck – I think my version of ‘racing’ is far removed from yours though LOL!
And good luck to you too.
Remember, if it's a race, you're racing. Don't matter whether you finish first or last everyone is going through the same. The nerves, the panic over the pace of your first 2 miles (it's always too quick or too slow, never bang on), the elation as you cross the line, the excitement as you look for your time.
It's been a while, can't wait to get it back.
@mogrim navigation is part of the challenge, but I've done it before and the tricksy bits are well known. I was following a GPS track (not a very good one - I was using a new GPS that I only got the day before) and because I was going solo I had my choice of weather windows. The Helvellyn ridge can be a bit disorientating at the Dodds, in the dark, but other than that its fine. I then went off track (minor deviations) in the mist at about 4:30am but the mist soon lifted.
Remember, if it’s a race, you’re racing.
Cheers - yes that's try - I am racing against me (wanting to beat my PB on the course) and against a couple of other runners I know – one of them beat me last time out by about 10 seconds (and his business is a major sponsor of the race).
It is going to be weird as there is no mass start this year - they are releasing in smaller waves by your estimated finish time (because of covid) so it should be easier to get to the right pace from the off.
Well, it was so good to be back racing again. Set off in waves, but still others around, still pinning a number on and the joy of a pre-race routine.
Went off a bit to fast for the first 2 miles but then settled in to a pace and was within 5 seconds per mile for the rest of the run bar a slightly quicker last mile. Last 2 miles were hard work, but I’d expect that.
And what’s more, a heathy PB and under 90 mins for a half with a solid 1:28. Top 10 in my age category and top 20 overall, albeit in a run not exactly packed with elites! Plus I beat all of my club mates which means bragging rights next week.
I knew I’d missed racing but didn’t realise how much until today. Brilliant morning.
Well done @lunge
As Steve McQueen famously said:
"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting."