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Thanks @lunge. Think it's out of options 2 and 4 for me.
Option one is above me. I've run a couple of half marathons this week and it's convinced me that I'm in no shape to do a full one without water and fuel. Both were "fill up on water and go as far as you can" style. First was Monday, and it went well, was actually speeding up towards the end. Thursday I tried again for bit further, 25k , and was hanging at the end. Last 5k we're rough and slow. TBH, there's still a bit more training needed to do before I'm happy to go for the full 42k. Probably need 3 long runs, getting up to somewhere round 35 , then get through the full one on excitement and bit of grit.
Option 3 is off the cards too. I've ran light like that before, just a tenner and key, and I like it. But this time I'm effectively shielding, no shops allowed for me, so unfortunately it's out. The run is going to be solo, distanced, and probably early Sunday morning before people are up and shops are open.
I think I'm starting to get a bit of a plan together where I'll park the car somewhere nice, go 10k out then back one way, then 10k out then back the opposite way, and finish back in the middle. Just got to work out of that second half is doable on a big drink in the middle and perhaps carrying something small.
But then there's always a side of me thinking this is a lovely excuse for new running gear. I'd actually forgotten decathlon, so that's a nice reminder. Their stuff always seems to work and is decent value.
Cheers anyway for the advice.
I’ve got a decathlon evadict running back pack and I think it’s brilliant. I carry phone, bars, nuts, bananas, water in the front pockets in soft flasks or in a bladder at the back, sometimes a wind proof. As long as you get the air out of the bladder I really don’t mind the thing. Yes, my back gets sweaty but I only notice it when I take it off. Quite like the security of having everything with me. Very versatile and well made pack. I sometimes carry a 500ml soft flask on runs longer than an hour in hot weather. They compact to nothing as you drink. Many options.
Thanks root, that's good news for me. two votes say the Decathlon one's good, and that's a good price too to take a chance. I can handle sweat, I'm already a sweaty oik, but was worried about bounce and chaffing. How's the sizing?
I'm usually L but always seem to need XL with decathlon - slim euro fit. Will have to be online delivery.
I think running with a pack opens up the " ideal" route I'd like to do, following a river path point to point to the coast. Gives that feeling of "getting somewhere" that's better motivation when tired. Future exploring runs too 🙂
Thanks all.
@loum I used one of these Decathlon vests for my Jubilee Greenway FKT - a pair of 250ml soft flasks on the front were barely noticeable. Good value too, and very minimal, your shoulder blades for example are left uncovered, which means more exposed skin for heat/sweat dissipation. Flasks aren't included, but these or similar work well and are cheap. You may be surprised at how much you actually need to drink while running - for the 60km Jubilee Greenway I drank about 300ml, which took about 3:45, so potentially similar to your needs, assuming you're well hydrated before you start.
@dashed I have looked at the Smog Graham before - the route was devised by Rick Pearson the editor of Runners World who I know from pacing the Big Half. It looks quite scenic in places and I know a fair chunk of it from other runs. Without family commitments I'd probably be tempted, but to be out running for a solid ~48 hours seems a little antisocial and unfair on the missus!
Thanks turboferret.
That looks a good solution.
Did my longest training run so far yesterday, 32k , so I've far more confidence that it's possible .
Pace really dropped after about 20, and it was tough and painful, but made a decision at 24k to keep going for another 8k loop and get the 'big' run out the way. Won't go past 21 now until the "race" and I'll try to work on form and speed.
I'm not targetting a "time" (will be around 5h) but imo, it's the time taken running past 3hours that's the sore bit. so the quicker I can get- the shorter that bit is.
Pace really dropped after about 20, and it was tough and painful
Did you eat anything? I'd be taking a couple of gels or whatever to eat after about the 20km mark, along with water of course.
Following from my slightly dark thread yesterday, I decided to join the marginally faster than I am group on last nights club run.
It turns out that absolutely thrashing yourself trying to hang on is seriously good for the mind.
Who knew?!
Yeah, if I'm out for a hard 20 miler I'll take a gel with me, maybe scoff one or some energy drink before heading out. Once your glycogen stores are depleted, which can be between 2 hours and 20 miles roughly, then you switch to burning fat, which the body does at a much slower rate. Keep yourself topped up to stave off that switch and you should be able to keep going at a decent pace for a good bit longer.
Also had a good club run last night doing intervals, there's nothing like trying to keep up with the faster guys to make you feel good. Afterwards, of course 🙂
It turns out that absolutely thrashing yourself trying to hang on is seriously good for the mind.
When I moved to where I now live, about 25 yrs ago, I jumped in to the fast group for the local club. I was in good shape but it was absolutely furious and was getting faster (their 10 mile route) I knew we only had about 10 mins running left but it was dark and i didnt have a clue where we were so hanging on was painful but I knew if I lost touch I would die of hypothermia... I was wise after the first week but those 10's were always sub 60 mins and after an easy first few miles the next 6-7 were ruthless
I seldom drank during longer runs, my runs were seldom more than about 15 miles but they were at a reasonable pace. I am old school so I do harp on about "in my day" but.... In my day nobody ever carried fluids or food. I honestly never recall any of the runners in all the years I ran (when I was training properly) carrying anything. We did know the location of a couple of taps for when it was very hot but we would often not bother. I was lucky to train with a lot of fast lads (28 min 10k, 61 min HM with a lot of national and int vests)
begin hydrated and expect to end thirsty.
I agree it becomes more important over around 15 miles and TBH we were running around 6-6:30 miling so it does mean you are not out for as long which helps.
In short for runs up to about 90 mins I wouldnt bother. Over 90 then maybe as you suggest run a loop and have a quick drink after 90 mins. I would never carry anything on runs like that it would drive me mad.
@surfer. Sounds proper old school. I think Youth helps too, but if you are running fast like that it is hard to drink! Like you say, at a more leisurely pace you are out longer and the heat has an effect.
I always carried water when cycling for over an hour so do the same running. Each to their own. When you take the vest off it feels fast!
Enjoyed a club session last night. Long hill reps of about 650m, 90 second rest then run back down. Surprised myself with how good I felt and was able to keep around 3:40-4:10 min/km up and down, despite not doing much high intensity stuff lately. The more personal evidence I gain, the more I think this low intensity, slow running really has a lot of benefits.
In short for runs up to about 90 mins I wouldnt bother.
At the height of summer here I probably would take something, but then it gets proper hot here. In the UK I can't see it being necessary - make sure you're fully hydrated before heading out and you'll be fine. Beyond 90 mins it's definitely worth taking something, and if you're going to be out for over a couple of hours I'd add a gel or similar. (Not to mention if you're training for a marathon you're going to be drinking + eating something anyway on the big day, so you should be training that aspect too, and of course checking that your chosen food doesn't have "explosive" effects...)
Whilst I'm still unable to run, I'm reading through some running training or form books. Any recommendations other than Daniel's running formula, Faster road racing and lost art of running?
@j4mesj4mes if you are contemplating running a marathon, I've had good results from following the programmes in Advanced Marathoning.
@j4mesj4mes - any interest in fell running? If so, Feet in the Clouds Richard Askwith and Steve Birkenshaw's account of his Wainwrights attempt are both good.
I'm still managing to run a bit despite hernia. Ok running but awful when I sneeze 😉 Surgery in a few weeks but trying to get the kms in as I was going to comfortably break my target of 1000km this year. Looking touch and go now!
@j4mesj4mes - I've read the science of running by Steve Magness. It's very detailed in the science behind what goes into training and improvement and is quite technical and detail heavy but there are some good concepts and ideas if you can digest all the science and technicalities.
If you fancy something motivational try
"Zatopek" as well as "today we die a little"
Both about the greatest athlete of the 20C, Emil Zatopek.
Thanks for the recommendations, will check them all out. I've read Feet in the clouds and really enjoyed it; the rest are new to me though.
Winter is here.
First club run on a winter route, all roads, loads of hills and going somewhere that's pretty is not even in the considerations.
There's are argument that the arm warmers need to come out soon as well.
Agreed! Frosty this morning - wished I'd had gloves and a hat!
I’ve been wondering about getting arm warmers or putting up with the cold until it’s base layer weather. Is there a big temp difference between the need for one or the other?
Thanks to you all for all the tips and advice on the previous page, much appreciated. I'm pretty sure I'm gonna be alright on the day.
Ran a lovely 10k this morning, bit muddy, bit hilly, rain shower too. Everything else has been longer or shorter, but this wasn't anything to do with training- just enjoyment.
Think that's about my favourite distance.
Late into this thread as I wasn't really running when 2020 started!
Background: I grew up orienteering in the Lakes, that's pretty much my only running background. I've run on and off over the years, had a long gap 2004-2010 after a nasty ankle injury, got back into it through doing Janathon in 2011, ended up running the Grand Raid des Pyrenees 50-mile Ultra the same year, then struggled with niggling injuries in 2012 and pretty much gave up again until a couple of years back. Got vaguely back into it, then tore (and re-tore, and re-tore again) my soleus over a couple of winters, then finally got a decent physio and have sorted that lot out.
I hate 'running for the sake of running' - I can't just go out for a run and pound pavement, it does my head in - but let me investigate some nice bits of trail, or give me a map and a set of checkpoints, and it takes my mind off how much my legs hurt. Pre-Covid our local orienteering club were doing 1hr night score-format events over autumn and winter, and I'd been gradually improving my distance and point scores through those - turns out my navigation is still pretty good after all these years. Through Covid they've introduced the same 1hr Scores as well as some linear courses through the MapRunF app, and they've kept me going nicely - enough that in conjunction with riding for myself a bit more I've lost 10kg and am back to the weight and fitness level I was when I ran my first Ultra, nearly a decade ago. Last weekend I did a 3hr mini-Mountain Marathon event in the Peak District on the same app, covered just shy of 21 hilly km over the time and somehow ended up in the top 25%, which I thought was a decent result for a 13 stone shortarse who's pushing 40...
I've got one major target to work for over the winter, which is driving the MM running: The Great Lakeland 3-day. Managed to get an entry, hoping things are settled enough for it to run in May next year. I've an even longer-term target, but that all depends how the first intermediate goes!
Welcome to the thread Pyro!
Perfect running conditions here in the midlands this morning, cool, clear and lovely winter sun. Went out to do 10 miles, legs felt good and it was just the kind of day to keep going, 16 miles later I arrived home feeling awesome.
Some days running is brilliant.
Managed my first marathon distance on Sunday as prep for the ultra. Largely off road with 500m of climbing. Felt better than expected.
Good work root.
I’ve just realised that yesterday’s run has taken me over 2000 miles for the year.
Did check to see if 3000 for the year is possible but over 10 miles per day for 3 months is a tad beyond me I think!
I’ve bought a couple pairs of new shorts from Decathlon which rub my upper left thigh - why not the right I’ve no idea. The first pair that did this I cut the gusset out and today rubbed me raw over a 10k. So, what running shorts do we recommend or do I need running boxers or what?
Decathlon shorts, the shortest they do, can’t remember the name, or ASICS Split shorts, again, the shortest one.
This combines with Decathlon running boxers gives me a chafe free experience, though I do lube up my thighs if I’m doing a long run.
I’d struggle without proper boxers, to much movement downstairs, I like everything in place.
Oh, and shaving your legs helps too, less friction, and everyone loves smooth, toned runners legs!
Looking at replacing my GPS watch in the near future - had a Garmin Forerunner 210 for years - and have had no issues at all with reliability, however its a pain having to connect it to the laptop to upload activities.
I'd like something similar in terms of functionality (needs to be able to do intervals and laps) but that can sync to my phone apps. Any recommendations? Less than £150 ideally. I use a Lezyne GPS for riding and will consider other brands than Garmin.
Thanks Lunge
I have a forerunner 235 that does most of what I need. It’s a bit clunky in the garmin way but very reliable and good battery. Annoyingly is doesn’t have a native walking mode, which I do a lot, so I have to change the activity type in garmin app and Strava. I would like for this next time. I have an analogue face on it which works well.
After a bit of advice.
I used to only ever run at the gym on a treadmill and that was really just for 10-15 mins as a warm up. Since coronavirus I haven’t been to the gym so haven’t been running at all.
I want to start running from home as it’s so convenient now that I’m working from home but the issue I’ve had in the past is that running on the pavement seems to ruin my knees.
I’m going to build up slowly but are there any decent trainers or insoles that can help with the impacts or is it a case of just easing myself in gently?
Not an expert, but I've found modern running shoes a lot less jarring than they used to be. Adidas boost, and Nike react or zoom midsoles seem almost bouncy compared to old trainers.
I don't know if that's enough for injury prevention, but definitely more forgiving on the joints. No experience with adding insoles though.
You are right about the start slow, build up gently too. I find running round a grass field or any off road less jarring than actual pavement pounding, but there's always the added risk to a turned ankle, especially as it gets darker and wetter into winter.
Likewise, not an expert, but I'd recommend getting a decent gait analysis if you can, muggomagic. Shoe choice can be totally and utterly chaotic and completely depends what in your knees is hurting, whether it's IT band problems, cruciates, maltracking of the kneecap or something muscular. That dictates whether you need cushioning, support, motion control or whatever.
Dunno where you're based, I use Accelerate in Sheffield when I'm buying new shoes - my gait actually changed as I built up my mileage so as a shoe wore out I got a check again while buying the next set just to make sure they would work for me each time.
Shortbread, a more modern Garmin would do what you want. All do laps and intervals now I think.
I really rate my suunto trainer, great GPS and heart rate and syncs really well to phone app then Strava, so would always have them on the shortlist too - think the more modern equivalent is called suunto 5 if you find it on offer.
Polar do really good kit too and are probably market leader now for wrist heart rate accuracy, think it's the vantage m that might just be in price range of on offer.
Amazon prime day had huge discounts last year, that's 13 Oct this year.
@muggomagic, I think I'd be doing a few things in your shoes.
1. Building up slowly, almost couch 2 5k style, that'll get your joints and body used to running outside.
2. Stay off road if you can. Running round fields is good, albeit a tad boring, but footpaths and trails are great too. Turns out singletrack is good fun running as well as being on a bike.
3. Shoes. Some swear by gait analysis, others don't, I'm in the latter camp but that irrelevant. Go to a running shop, try on a few pairs of mid-range neutral shoes and pick the pair that's comfiest. You're looking shoes like Brooks Ghost, ASICS Cumulus and Nike Pegasus, all have good cushioning and should make the experience more pleasant.
You'll now be told by others to learn to run properly and buy a pair of zero-drop, minimalist shoes (just like Kipchoge in his minimal, 40mm+ AlphaFly's...). The fact that very few people use this style of shoes compared to "normal" running shoes may or may not influence your decision as to if this is the route to go down.
As a relatively new CouchTo5Ker, who has suffered from repeated Achilles strains and very tight calves, I just splashed out on my first proper running shoes after going to a proper running shop.
Basic gait analysis (run on treadmill / do some squats) suggested I need some support. (I'm duck-footed, on my toes/forefoot too much and pronated). After trying a few options I landed on some New Balance 860 v11.
Been out twice in them so far and yes I can definitely feel a difference.
I feel like it has sort of messed up my movement a little bit, but in a good way if that makes sense.
Thanks all. Appreciate the advice, will see if I can find a local running shop for some help choosing shoes. In the meantime I’ll definitely build up slowly this time and I’m following a plan on Garmin Connect.
I started a c25k plan last year and skipped the first few weeks as I found them too easy and a few more weeks into the plan I began suffering from pretty severe knee pain (they were even hurting a lot when resting).
When I recovered I started using a treadmill and thankfully didn’t have any issues, so I’m hoping it’ll be ok but keen to avoid suffering like I did last time.
I'm in the "not a fan of gait analysis" camp, I'd do what lunge says and get some mid-range neutral shoes from pretty much any brand, and build up the milage nice and slowly.
IMO it's also worth thinking a bit about your form: I find heavy plodding at a slow cadence hammers my knees while a nice light run at a higher rhythm is much better, even if the overall pace is similar. You don't need to be running on your toes or anthing like that, just aim for a quick, quiet footfall.
I started a c25k plan last year and skipped the first few weeks as I found them too easy
Text book "cyclist with good CV strength goes running and gets injured" behaviour. Cy25k is as much about building your joints and muscles up as it is about the fitness that it's most often associated with.
I find heavy plodding at a slow cadence hammers my knees while a nice light run at a higher rhythm is much better, even if the overall pace is similar. You don’t need to be running on your toes or anthing like that, just aim for a quick, quiet footfall
Good advise this is. I too feel much less impact when I'm pushing on. Long, slow runs are not good for my knees, I'm much better off running them at some kind of pace.
You don’t need to be running on your toes or anthing like that, just aim for a quick, quiet footfall.
I start off quite light footed but definitely a plodder as I get more tired.
Text book “cyclist with good CV strength goes running and gets injured” behaviour. Cy25k is as much about building your joints and muscles up as it is about the fitness that it’s most often associated with.
Yeah I didn’t realise that at all. It was only afterwards when talking to a friend about how bad my knees were that he mentioned this so I’m going to be super careful this time.
In terms of shoes after reading what you’ve said, I think I’ll stick with my current shoes for now and see how I get on with the slowly building and also running on grass.
If I start to get the the pains again I’ll stop (rather than run though the pain like I did last time) and go get checked out at a running shop.
Text book “cyclist with good CV strength goes running and gets injured” behaviour. Cy25k is as much about building your joints and muscles up as it is about the fitness that it’s most often associated with.
May be guilty of this too. Went running for the first time in 20 years on Sunday. Was pretty pleased as I knocked out a 5k without stopping.
Woke up on Monday and I could hardly walk. Tuesday was just as bad, legs still a bit sore today. If I do stretches before/after will that eliminate the sore legs or do I need to build up the distance more gradually?
If I do stretches before/after will that eliminate the sore legs or do I need to build up the distance more gradually?
You can minimise it. Warm up before hand and stretch afterwards, but ultimately you're using muscles in ways they're not used to so it'll definitely hurt.
C25k always feels slow to start with, and you can maybe miss out week 1, but it does ease you in and helps prevent injuries.
If I do stretches before/after will that eliminate the sore legs or do I need to build up the distance more gradually?
The latter. The former will have no effect at all.