[Closed] The return of my favourite Tory...

Mmmm.....Chris Patten was my favourite Tory. Still, I guess it's better than the return of my [i]least[/i] favourite Tory :

[img] [/img]

adopt the euro why? all it will do is cost us, how would it work? would our wages change 1 euro to 1 pound? even with a poor exchange rate it would give us a pay cut?

Perhaps we could just foster the euro for a bit, see if it works out before we go the whole hog and adopt it.

maybe we could just give up pretending we are European and conquer the lot of them and inflict the good old british pound on them

Interesting that he is being touted as a "big beast" especially by the party that overlooked him for the leadership twice and chose two candidates that had very little experience!

If he was such a strong figure, and you can leave aside the Euro, why has he been sidelined for so long?

Michael Portillo would be a more effctive addition to the Tory shadow cabinet.

I liked the fact highlighted this morning that Ken has spent more years as an MP than little george has spent on the planet.

Why don't they bring this bitch back?

(Adjusts scope; takes safety off...)

[img] [/img]

Die, bitch, die!

Like Mikes idea, lets bring back conscription and invade.

I suppose anyone starts to look good compared to Lord Snooty and his pals.

A sign of desperation on behalf of the Tories.

And Labour bringing Mandy back doesnt? 🙂

[img] [/img]

The last politician this country could be proud of. The last one I voted for too. 🙂

The only part not showing desperation Stoner are the Lib/Dems and that's because they can't decide whether to be or not.

There were a hell of a lot of people in this country who felt pride when her own party stabbed her in the back and got shot of her.

good point surfer - I'd like to see portillo back too.

I recall Mandy was instrumental in New labours success in 97. I dont recall Clarke being part of such a winning formula?

The last politician this country could be proud of. The last one I voted for too.

Ha ha! Did you live in her constituency, then?

Proud of a warmongering, evil bitch with friends of similar disposition? Proud of a woman who sold off this country's resources, so that we now buy our gas from the French? Proud of a woman who instilled the ideology of greed, masterminded the sale of invaluable social housing, and alienated vast sections of British society?

Yeah, mate, you go on, and be proud of her.

(Puts Champagne on ice, for her (hopefully imminent) death.)

Sorry! Just realised you were being sarcastic!

You certainly had me going there!

Silly me! 🙄

But then Ken was never so much fun at parties as Michael was (this would be late 80s obviously before his heart attack).

I'm no Tory supporter but Portillo would be a more popular addition. He is clearly bright but also quite charismatic.

Clarke will simply be sidelined discussing his views on Europe, whether he wants to or not.

The last politician this country could be proud of. The last one I voted for too.

Were you a fan of her buddy Pinochet as well?

I think they should get this lot back on the payroll
They epitomise Tory values

[img] [/img]

Oh, and she stole the kiddies' milk, as well.

Die, please, die.

Oh, and she stole the kiddies' milk, as well.

Given the fact that it was always left in the sun to go off before we got to drink it, that was no great loss.

I still can't drink milk on its own over 30 years later.

favourite tory?

[img] [/img]

Ha ha! Did you live in her constituency, then?

Northern monkey I presume?

Who, me???!?!

Ha ha!

Somebody please tell him; I'm laughing too much... 😆

Ah, work shy slacker then.

I like the way rudeboy appears to think that the death of thatcher will bring instant riches to everyone or something. Well, chilled champagne at the very least.

"Proud of a woman who instilled the ideology of greed"

While the rest of what you said is pretty true, that made me giggle. She inflicted me with personality traits?!?! What a cow.

I wasn't suggesting that for a second, tomzo. In fact, seeing as her state funeral will cost a packet, it will in fact leave us all a tiny bit poorer.

I just hate the ****.

As for 'the ideology of greed', well, the relentless promotion of the idea that you MUST own a property (hence the sale of social housing stock), as well as all sorts of other mostly unnecessary shyte, has driven people to want to consume more and more, and by doing so, get into greater and greater debt.

Greedgreedgreedgreed....

Ownbuyhaveposses...

S'why so many people are so ****ing selfish.

Die, bitch, die...

I want to build a disco on her grave...

You seem a very excitable fellow.

You should see me when I HAVE'NT had my Valium... 😯

As for 'the ideology of greed', well, the relentless promotion of the idea that you MUST own a property (hence the sale of social housing stock), as well as all sorts of other mostly unnecessary shyte, has driven people to want to consume more and more, and by doing so, get into greater and greater debt.

A lot of 'what the Unions got up to' was actually to fight for and protect the rights of workers.

Such as the 40 hour week, health and safety measures to reduce injuries at work, more accountability of companies towards the well-being of their staff, fairer pay measures, more equal rights for women, etc.

Of course, if you don't believe in Unions, you could always move to a country that outlaws them...

Marx would say that human beings are inately benevolent.

Its interesting that when we come across some particularly nasty behaviour we put it down to "human nature" I think much of it is nurture not nature. So to some extent she and her like legitimised this behavior in the 80's.

Such as the 40 hour week, health and safety measures to reduce injuries at work, more accountability of companies towards the well-being of their staff, fairer pay measures, more equal rights for women, etc.

Just a response to 'let's blame the Unions for everything bad', that people often do on here.

And Unions are still, mostly, a force for good in this nation, and something we should be glad of.

Marx was wrong about lots of other things too.

Just because it's nurture not nature doesn't mean it's not bred into certain parts of society (not that I'd want to isolate one part of society, as apart from obvious exceptions like religious orders, it's hard to think of a single part of society which isn't inherently greedy and selfish - just that the opportunities for acquisition vary). Bizarre to suggest that greed was somehow legitimised under Facha, when in reality it was just a time when it became more possible for a wider spread of people to earn lots of money (due to greater opportunity), hence the more in your face excesses.

Just a response to 'let's blame the Unions for everything bad'

RudeBoy - Member

Northern monkey I presume?

Who, me???!?!

Ha ha!

Somebody please tell him; I'm laughing too much... 😆

Rudeboy the socialist Cockney, whatever next! 😉

Not at all, some Union leaders were right self-serving greedy bastards. And even recently, that Andy Gilchrist bloke (Fire Brigade Union) seemed more concerned with furthering his own political career, than the fact peoples' lives were being put at risk. Mind, I could be wrong on that one. He did come across like that, though. And the ease at which the transport workers in London seemed to down tools, over relatively trivial matters, didn't exactly endear them to the public.

Granted, there were a lot of lazy bastards in Britain, during the '70s, and they appeared to be aided by the 'one out all out' union leader types (See 'Carry On At Your Convenience!), but the majority of Unions in this country merely exist to serve the rights of workers. Like I said, those who don't abide with Unions of any kind, can always move..

And a lot of the anti-Union feeling was whipped up by the right-wing media, when in fact many were campaigning for things we now take for granted. Nurses, teachers, factory workers, the low-paid, those with young children, those from minority groups; were all represented by Unions.

So, Trade Unions are a big part of why we have so many laws to protect our rights. Rights that the Tories sought to take away; to return to a Britain with a docile workforce submissive enough to serve the rich.

And like Thatcher ever did owt to help the poor and underprivileged in Britain...

...****.

Greed and selfishness - it does make me laugh when the tories whine on about the breakdown of community and society cohesion and values etc - who was it who said 'there is no such thing as society' again?

FACHA!!!!

The 'orrible ****...

Die...

I think going Euro is likely to happen sooner or later - with the £ only being €1.1 now, surely the arguments for the £ are weakening as quickly as it's value is falling so would it not be a better time to do it than ever?

*stops pretending to understand these matters*

Given your evidence there, I'd suggest my original point stands.

I've certainly nothing against unions as a general principle, and agree that we'd be a lot worse off without them, but I never said they were all bad - simply that they do very often come across as greedy (which does them no favours at all) a point we seem to agree on.

Why is unions being 'greedy' on the behalf of mostly normal workers seen as such a terrible thing. Seems to be considered worse than companies being 'greedy' for their shareholders, which is standard practice and basically their entire raison d'etre.

Being "bred" in is not the same as learned behaviour. We need role models to help us make the right moral and ethical decisions when sometimes they are less clear.
For example we dont really need anyone to tell us that punching somebody in the nose is socially and morally unnaceptable for all but a few occasions.
During the 80's thatcher made it morally acceptable (even a virtue) of exploiting others whenever the opportunity arose.
This was a direct response to her economic advisors of the time who preached laissez faire attitudes. The market would take care of itself and should be left to find its own equilibrium. Fortunately (Friedman unlike Marx) has been proved wrong (mostly)

*stops pretending to understand these matters*

GaryLake :"I think going Euro is likely to happen sooner or later - with the £ only being €1.1 now, surely the arguments for the £ are weakening as quickly as it's value is falling so would it not be a better time to do it than ever?

*stops pretending to understand these matters*

Yeah right EURO ... 😆

I don't understand them hence I am not going anyway near them.

A little hardship and all crying for EURO.

😆

I'm not suggesting I'm for it but it does have a feeling of inevitability about it so with our currency almost on par with it, it would seem to be the best time to do something if we were going to end up doing it anyway...

GaryLake: "...it would seem to be the best time to do something if we were going to end up doing it anyway..."

I am afraid I cannot be what you have referred to as "we"?

As I will never vote for EURO even if the rest of the world do so. If they are on level par then surely there is no need to go EURO.

😯

Why is unions being 'greedy' on the behalf of mostly normal workers seen as such a terrible thing.

Gary - are you really suggesting that now would be a good time to join the Euro just because we wouldn't have to change the prices on things, simply swap the £ sign for a € sign?

Why is unions being 'greedy' on the behalf of mostly normal workers seen as such a terrible thing. Seems to be considered worse than companies being 'greedy' for their shareholders, which is standard practice and basically their entire raison d'etre.

I've often found that the biggest complainers of "Union greed" have been those individuals/corporations who advocated the implementation of laws/weakening of unions for their financial own gain.

Because unions being greedy can have a negative effect on the company, thus resulting in the opposite of what is actually good for the workers they purportedly represent. That or (cf Andy Gilchrist) a negative effect on society as a whole. Meanwhile companies being "greedy" for their shareholders has a positive effect on the sustainability of the company, which whilst it might not be so good for the union members' pockets in the short term, at least means they still have jobs in the long term.

Bizarre.

Have you noticed that as a result of companies greed recently that quite a few jobs have all of a sudden become "very" short term?

aracer - not quite as simply as that - but one big concern I always hear people moan about is how strong our current currency is - which it isn't any more...

simply that they do very often come across as greedy

Define 'often'...

During the ['70s, several factors were being blamed for Britain's economic slump. The Unions, the 'Darkies', the IRA...

Basically, anyone the Right didn't like, and saw as standing in their way of gaining wealth and power.

So, Thatcher was such a great politician, wasn't she? Because, of course, everything is sooo much more wonderful and prosperous now, isn't it?

And of course, life under Thatcher's Tories was fantastic; it's all New Labour's fault.

Blah blah ****ing blah...

I'm having a cup of tea. Anyone want one?

RudeBoy, can see from your arguments that you were not there in the 70's. Keep it up though it's a good laugh.

mt, like, you know me? Yeah, right. Know when I was born, do you? Ok, then..

But likewise, you keep it up too. I'm sure we can amuse each other. 🙂

Rudeboy, I hope that your tea break was the regulation ten minutes, I wouldn't want you to go up on a disciplinary without a union rep... 😉

No worries. Took me time, as it was owed to me from earlier. I ain't gonna let no bourgeois scum tell me when I can or can't have a tea-break. S'my Human Right, innit, Brothers (and Sisters (and Siblings of Non-Specific Gender))?

MT. I was there, in the 70's and 80's. Whats your point?