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Apologies op
This is my therapy
After
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CaInt
Sort YOURSELF Out
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Thee
Self.
Na.
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Two
Now.
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?
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In a bucket
With a
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Ambush style.
I Langers dog.
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Stop this and trust drs!!!?
I take as i find
A cean a chor...........................................,e..........hehheheha
Read some existential philosophy. It helped me come to peace with the meaning less of it all because we can infact choose to give life whatever meaning we want. Jump in and embrace the absurdity of it all!
As Rick Sanchez says
When You Know Nothing Matters, The Universe is Yours.
Which is kind of a Jean Paul Satre type of thing I think.
The key to enduring life is not pleasure but meaning as meaning will give both the necessary pleasure and pain but the pain will be something that you will endure for meaning.
Finding that meaning is hard, on a practical level for me it's about having goals, doesn't matter if they are long term of or short term doesn't matter if I reach them or not it's the focus. When there is no goals to aim for the more the mind delves to dark places.
The first I feel the more short term goals, at other times I can just concentrate on something that is a week or a month a way and the small things flow. When the crazyness comes the goal need to be multiple per hour. No hard and fast rules. That's just me.
Life is basically a constant battle to figure out how to deal with life, if you're lucky you'll figure it out and then you'll die. Even if you don't figure it out you can try everything you can and enjoy it. Enjoy the pain enjoy the pleasure.
There are so many quotes but to end on a nice one.
Knowing others is intelligence;
knowing yourself is true wisdom.
Mastering others is strength;
mastering yourself is true power
Form the Tao Te Ching
I don't post on here much, but this thread is interesting. Fundamentally I am miserable.
I have a wife and 3 lovely kids, v well paid job etc etc etc, but I have no freedom. It often feel like the only time I will get freedom is when I drop dead.
Constant demands are made of me from 1000 different directions. If I push back I just get abuse. I couldn't even rest when I had covid so she could go out for day and left me with kids to look after. When I complained afterwards was told I was controlling.
Would love to get off this carousel of work, money, stuff. But it will be impossible unless I leave the wife and that will destroy the kids. What's a man to so?
Ravingdave are you me?
Have you had that conversation with your wife?
Try making a list of all the times you did something you wanted to do, in the last three, six, twelve months and show her. If she doesn't care, then it really does sound like you have an issue.
It's been had before, I'm then told to 'just do what I want' which then makes me feel bad and am told that she can't win. For her life is purely about the kids, whereas I am seeking a bit more balance, apparently that is wrong.
The fact that she goes out with friends goes to shows, goes for dinner, goes wild swimming is not the same at all...
So many men I know seem to hit those kind of relationship issues. Two of my closest friends have finally separated in the last year and moved on with their lives.
I've certainly felt like that at times, we seem to have a better balance now, but it's something that depends on good communication in a relationship, or highlights the lack of it.
Ravingdave ...You'll probably find a fair few married men with families feel the same underneath it all despite insisting otherwise. Sounds really oppressive to me and I feel for you . You obviously want to avoid conflict but sounds like the wife has the upper hand and is playing it to get what she wants which isn't exactly healthy, fair or tbh very caring. This thread isn't about marriage counselling but my gut reaction is that you need to start having regular time for yourself whether she likes it or not . I'd ask her whether she cares about your needs and happiness rather than just her own and the kids. No need to divorce .. but the balance is wrong and change is needed so the whole family can be happy and that includes you having time out each week to have a little freedom.
Doing your own thing without the others doesn't mean you love the family any less but being given the go ahead/approval without being made to feel guilty ( many women are naturally skilled in this I have found! ) could make a big difference to you ..a man who obviously works hard and rarely gets a break .
You're being taken for granted and your wife probably won't like the truth ..most people don't like to hear they are controlling which is exactly what she called you as she probably knows underneath it's the other way round but is seemingly fine with that which imho is pretty selfish .
If you can't get anywhere with the subject I'd have a few sessions with a counsellor and the two of you . Good luck and feel free to ignore my suggestions ... I've a life full of problems myself (although I am able to do whatever I want whenever I want within reason) . ..just trying to help as it sounds a xxxx situation . Men particularly need time away from everything .. for most of our evolution we went out away from the family and hunted and still need that freedom today ..hence the garden shed for many . The women stayed at home so perhaps that's what your wife should do more of .. tell her to get her friends round whilst you go out .
I personally would go crazy in that situation
Just seen morecashthan dash confirmed my suspicions re it being common whilst I was typing out the previous comment.
When I complained afterwards was told I was controlling.
I know it's not great to jump to conclusions from one side of a story, but it sounds like she might be the controlling one.
Consider your options mate.
It's always nice to see a thread descend into lazy sexist stereotypes (roll eyes emoticon).
I'm sorry @kaiser but I find your post really offensive. It helps neither men nor women to be pigeonholed that way. You may want to check the calendar. You'll find we are in the 21st century now. As for women playing the victim role, some do for sure, some men do too. I'm sure more women than men do but that is because that's a role that's been assigned to them. Women are still seen to a degree as damsels in distress, that kind of thing. It's changing of course but posts like yours show just how far we've still got to go.
Hug officially taken back!
@ravingdave why do you say it will destroy your kids if you leave?
Obviously I don't know what the atmosphere is like at home but kids tend to do better with two happy or happier people who live apart than two unhappy people who live together.
Don't underestimate what staying in a dysfunctional relationship will do to the two of you but also your kids. And the effects can be lifelong.
I speak as someone whose parents loathe each other but were and still are in a toxic, co-dependent relationship that neither has ever been able to get out of.
The damage it has caused to them and to me and my sister is very evident even to this day.
The best thing you can do for your kids, if you really can't make it work with their mother, is to split.
I've been reading my edition of the Tao Te Ching again (the Stephen Mitchell translation). The somewhat nebulous nature of the teachings help steer me towards a happier outlook in my own particular anarchic way.
IF I didn't have children who depend on me I'd be swallowed up by existential angst most days.
Best of luck OP.
Hug officially taken back!
Whilst we're on the subject of being PC, don't make support conditional! Everyone needs help especially on this thread.
Ravingdave : 'The fact that she goes out with friends goes to shows, goes for dinner, goes wild swimming' implies that when she says you can do what you want she isn't kidding, and that the reason you are feeling bad is an internal guilt feeling you have, and you don't need to necessarily blame her.
Have you seen anyone professional about this? It's a very common scenario, and fixing your perception of what's required here might not be very difficult with assistance. But moaning on the internet isn't going to change it for you.
Jeez. I'm not sure my 'virtual hug' or taking it back really has any effect on anybody.
Amazing this is the point picked up on when a poster has suggested a woman should stay home more and men need time away from the family because they are hunter gatherers.
The hug part was actually meant to be light hearted.
This thread just seems to have descended into a women are to blame for men's unhappiness type of thread.
I thought the use of the word men in the title was purely to do with the quote from whoever it was who first said it but it would seem not.
Apologies if I've offended you The pilot .. please take the hug back !. Likewise to anyone else ..I would remove the line but seemingly can't . It's simply that I have observed human beings for nearly 60yrs now and come to the conclusion that both men and women have the potential to manipulate each other and often do . What I have noticed is that in my own experience women tend to be more skilled in this naturally! . I would suggest that the female sex developed that particular skill out of necessity ..to be able to control / persuade the unruly and physically more powerful and aggressive males who dominated most other areas of life except childcare . It's not meant to be an insult and may well be incorrect . Perhaps I have come to that way of thinking as a result of several relationships where I noticed how skilful my girlfriends' ( incl my now wife) were in getting their own way ..often by clever or stealthy means . Sulking is a classic example and yes both sexes do that. Men and women are equal but are also quite different generally speaking and I am happy that is the case!
My opinion is purely subjective of course but it makes sense that people with different strengths and weaknesses develop different skills to compensate .
I really don't want to argue about this ..my intention is never to offend .. in fact the opposite . I actually prefer the company of women myself and have plenty of complaints about how many men behave ..including my self . At the end of the day we are all fallible human beings and my comment was clumsy ,perhaps incorrect and I shall try and avoid such territory in future as I need friends not arguments !
Finally ..just to add that my suggestion that she should stay at home and he go out was nothing to do with the evolution theory ..I suggested it as one or the other had to look after the kids (unless they both went out independently at the same time and hired a babysitter) and as it seemed she was getting more than her fair share of freedom she should perhaps give her husband a bit of free time by doing that.
I got the impression it was unfair and she was uncaring about that fact or his feelings . Again ..maybe I got it all wrong .
I'm not of the woke generation of mindset in fact sometimes get offended by people being offended by so many things ! I care about others ,always try to be fair ,kind and help when I can .
Mmm I agree we should not argue. Sorry for pouring fuel on.
@ravingdave you should just arrange a trip out. Get her to agree a date then do it. Don't feel guilty, you have nothing to feel guilty about.
Madame likes here job, I haven't worked for 20 years. If I feel like doing something I do it. she's happy to see me go and happy to see me back. So this week her salary has paid for me to spend a day in Bordeaux, a day X-C skiing... . She goes horse riding with my help when she needs it, and always has a maintained MTB and waxed skis ready to go when she wishes. If anything needs doing, I do it. Life's good. A partner to share it with makes it better. We're both just back from swimming but swam in different lanes, you don't have to hold hands all the time.
It's ok @kaiser and nice of you to post back and you can have your hug back 😉
It's just when you see woman and stay and home in a sentence, it causes a reaction!
But yeah, in this case, maybe it is appropriate. We only have one side of the story of course.
As for women being more naturally skilled at being manipulative, I really can't go along with that. Maybe it's the type of women you go for? (not meant to be offensive). Or maybe it's conditioning from living in a patriarchal society. I dunno.
I really think men and women should think much longer and harder about getting married and having kids. It doesn't seem to suit so many people but obviously there's no going back once they are here. Having said that, I'm single and childless and pretty miserable myself!
Madame likes here job, I haven’t worked for 20 years. If I feel like doing something I do it. she’s happy to see me go and happy to see me back. So this week her salary has paid for me to spend a day in Bordeaux, a day X-C skiing
I'm so glad you have so much freedom to enjoy yourself Ed, that's cheered me right up! 😆
Could well be the type of women I went for .. without even knowing it. We behave and think all sorts of things and presume
it's what we ourselves choose... when the controller is nowhere to be seen .
I was with my wife for 19 yrs before we married...mainly to help her feel more secure (as I was worried our fairly good relationship might deteriorate as a result.. optimism eh !)
I do find it unreal that so many people are prepared to spend huge sums of money and promise to care for each other until death ..often in front of hundreds and within a year or 2 be preparing for divorce. Why make that promise when statistically you've got a 1 in 3 chance (or close)of hating each other within 24months.
Fallible people repeating mistakes again and again down the generations.
To be fair though ..some make it work well!
As for having children .. don't get me started .. I'm still trying to find out how it's done ... Perhaps that's why I'm feeling manipulated when my wife keeps saying are you coming up to bed !
You've got to laugh ..I suddenly wondered if I'd just written anything offensive again.... really! Hope not !
I have a strange sense of humour ..forgive me .
Presumably everyone knows Philip Larkin's poem ?
I will post it up later just in case anyone hasn't seen it as imho it's just so true...but I am depressed or so I'm told!
the reason you are feeling bad is an internal guilt feeling you have, and you don’t need to necessarily blame her.
Have you seen anyone professional about this? It’s a very common scenario, and fixing your perception of what’s required here might not be very difficult with assistance
I can relate to that, especially when I was working full time and having less time with the wife and kids to start with.
Feel I need to say that when I said I knew men who had similar issues with their wives, it's because none of my female friends have confided in me, but I'm sure the problem isn't gender specific
I think that's the most depressing part of it all, we make the same mistakes over and again. And pain is passed down through the generations.
I constantly went for the wrong kind of person. A series of dysfunctional relationships where it was always one pulling one way, one the other. I wonder how it might have been if I'd made better decisions. But I think when you've had such a sh*tty example from your early years, it's hard to make good decisions or even know you're not making good decisions.
Love the Philip Larkin poem. I came across it in in sixth form. Yep, that's it, I thought.
I re-read your post now @kaiser and i see you didn't even mention the word victim. Sorry! I jump straight in sometimes, it is the rage in me.
On a good note, me and doggo had a lovely walk today. We even managed to avoid the rain!
I'm in Costa with a flat white that's not actually any better than the ones I make at home and it was nearly three quid. I do it to get out of the house, which I need to. I don't get much human interaction that's not via WebEx or Slack these days. But really it's not the coffee, it's the chance to look out of these big windows at the trees (and currently the intense hail), and to look at the people who are in here. My view of the trees and hail at the moment is partially obscured by a table of rather large youngsters wearing Cardiff Blues Rugby training kit, and I'm wondering if I should recognise any of them. They are playing cards, their deck has skulls and crossbones on the back. There's another table behind them with two young women with a latte and a pot of tea, and laptops and notebooks, all closed. They seem to have come to do some work but have now given up and are chatting away pleasantly.
The other reason I come here (besides the cakes, which I do rather like, but I cannot have due to being too fat; I wish I were a rugby player then my weight would be a solid asset and I could eat til I'm full) is that I can walk here down the path through the woods. I can watch the spring springing, and I can climb down to the stream and watch it for a while.
Why am I typing all this out? Well, it's mindful to think of all these things, and also to create sentences cheaply but efficiently knocked out like someone making trinkets to sell at a stall; but mainly it's because I'm not interested in the work I'm obliged to be doing (due to being paid for it on trust) and my mind will do anything but that. Which leads to great stress, because I will be doing the work tonight when I should be sleeping or interacting with my family.
I know the feeling all to well .. procrastination. I thought I'd finally nailed it recently after being given ADHD medication and feeling great , more focused and ready to tackle anything. Disappointingly though despite the dosage being increased to the maximum , I now feel very little benefit. The brain chemistry boost was profound at first but 2 months in and the old ways have returned. The honeymoon period is over and everything is a tremendous challenge.
Re the mindfulness .. I've been writing notes to remind myself to notice things more .. like most peoe do apparently, rather than being present physically but lost in thought elsewhere and on permanent autopilot.
When I do get a period of focus though it's such a relief from the internal dialogue I'm always aware of and inner peace seems closer.Remembering to be mindful is the real challenge though ..despite 30 yrs of on /off meditation practice and numerous other related practices.
I know it's brain chemistry related as a really hard workout will always quite down the stream of thought but within a short period of time the river returns to distract me from the present moment.
Alcohol had the same effect .. gagging the chatterer for a while allowing me to see things as they really were rather than through distorted filters accompanied by thought.
The Buddha told us we see things not as THEY are but as WE are ..and he was right ime. Probably sounds a lot of woo woo to many people who've never needed or wanted to see what is really going on..you lucky buggers..hyperawareness is no fun !
The mods removed the Philip Larkin Poem btw presumably as , despite it being a much loved and famous piece, it contains a word that somebody somewhere might find offensive.
I always found it strange that people find certain words offensive simply because someone told them so probably at a young age.A bit like the unadulterated child who is told they are a certain religion and then spends the rest of their life defending it. I know that with swear words the reason people are often offended is for deeper reasons that I'm sure people already know and/or don't really want me to elaborate on either ( my theory anyhow).
I am glad to see the thread did not descend into a man v woman thing. That was not my intent at all. My wife is an amazing woman a great thoughtful mum a hard worker, she just has a way of making me feel guilty about the things I like. Example:
Me: I'm going for a ride on Sunday morning
Her: but daughter has a party
Me: well you take her and the 2 boys
Her: I cannot do that as I want to get ready to see my parents later. Oh just go.
Now I feel guilty that my daughter either won't get to go, will go with a stressed parent. So I suck it up and don't go and swallow the issue. That is just the latest one, but it happens over and over again.
On the whole I have a huge amount to be thankful for. 3 gorgeous well behaved kids, a stable job, a career path set out. I need to focus on positives I think.
Thanks for that replied (both on here and in messages) I am terrible and confrontation and avoid at all costs. This will simmer away until I either accept my 'lot' in life or I have it out again...
That sounds like man v woman and in-laws.
When we were having lunch after swimming I asked Madame if she fancied a walk or a bike after work. "Bike" she replied. So at 5h there were two MTBs ready to go and we pottered off.
Focus on positives and work on positives. Work on things that are inclusive that all the family get something out of and things that you do as a couple. If you invest in those I suspect you'll find your "you" time is less of an issue.
I've been very impressed with the YouTube channel by Einzelganger. As usual he had many videos on subjects loosely connected to this thread. Just listened to a discussion re the controversial subject of antinatalism from a compassionate viewpoint and must say it seems to have a certain validity ..just goes against the grain .
Listen if interested
Hi op I hope you are having a good time l may Eid wild garlic is out and I saw Two swallows so summer is here!
Went to shop and saw happy families outside the Mosque playing and laughing after their prayers. It made me feel lucky to have good neighbours.
Anyway I hope this book helps but feel free to ignore:
Awake ned brain by Lisa Miller.
Enfin a dr that gets it!
A wee cean/kin d bri an is that monti python enuff for the stw class of 22?
Best wishes op I rode hartland which is nice and even saw a lundy!?!
Bandwidth well used
A broad band
How do you cook a hedgehog?
Askin Of?
A prick Lee question!
Awakened brain by Lisa Miller.
Actually that does sound rather interesting, I'm tempted.
Bandwidth well used
As opposed to your post?