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This is a very interesting thread and thanks to everyone so far that’s been so candid and honest. Like some, I can’t really put the right words around this.
I stumble through life with “unsatisfactory” feeling. I work better when busy yet complain about being stressed, I can’t be ambivolant like others because I’m terrible when I’m bored, I complain that bike training is a forced dictat yet I need exercise to function and it delivers me that with a purpose, I need to observe weight and feel the impacts of alcohol heavily yet have a “I’ve worked hard enough/at a point in my life” entitlement to demanding a beer or short or two in the evening, like others I’m 10+ years from any kind of retirement (age 50) and the effort of work and it’s ups and downs over that period fills me with dread, yet I need to do it to fund retirement and help our childrens future as much as I can do.
I can’t put a name to it, I can’t enjoy life, it’s become a kind of a resigned, sad and tired feeling that it’ll be a long while before I can enjoy my days and activities by having them at my control and not at the behest of others. I do worry that they’ll be a time I’ll break and not bother getting up to work or cycle, shut the curtains and become an unhealthy depressed recluse. Yet I know I won’t, because that and it’s outcomes too would be an failure and so continue to navigate an unsatisfactory balance … just like the title of the op I guess.
Edit, after reading this thread last night I found this which some may find useful: https://www.artofmanliness.com/character/advice/really-avoid-living-life-quiet-desperation/.
Can I have a moan here too please.
I had life pretty well sorted I thought, earning more than I needed while having cheap hobbies and tastes. I enjoy a certain level of stress at work which makes my hectic job something I am happy doing, and I was very much an "it's the journey not the destination" type guy.
In 2020 Post covid I developed Rheumatoid Arthritis and then am now on Methotrexate to treat that. I have to take the MTX once a week and it completely wipes me out for 24 hours, dizzy, tired, nauseous, anxious, then the same only not so bad for the following 24 hours. So I lose 2 days a week to these side effects. Currently work is mental enough that I can't afford to go through this down time on a work day, previously I've been able to take meds Tues or Thurs and manage the following day but now that's not possible I am taking the meds on a Friday. This means at the end of a busy week, riding high after getting bits done when I shoukd be looking forward to a weekend I take my meds and spend the weekend laying round the house feeling sick. Adding to this the meds and my liver do not get on so I am on a fairly low dose which is keeping the worst of the symptoms from the door but is not effective enough for me to do any real physical activity, ruling out my hobbies of golf, running, walking, swimming. I can't eat anything due to the nausea between Friday and Monday or Tuesday, so that's another pleasure I'm being denied, and I can't drink due to the meds / liver damage issue.
This situation has been going on for around 3 months now and it's starting to take its toll mentally, I feel like I am putting everything in to life and getting nothing back. What's the point in working harder than I have to to earn money I don't need while I can't do anything I enjoy in terms of exercise, drinking or even eating food.
The hope is that when the weather warms up my body will decide to play ball again and the symptoms ease up allowing me to do some of the activities I enjoy, I think I have given up drinking, and then I need some sort of plan to get myself to a 4 day work week so I can sacrifice a day off to the Methotrexate gods for recovery but I don't know how to get there.
If there is a positive in this then its when my body works, or on the days I can eat I appreciate it so much more and do make efforts to make up for lost time but the whole situation has set me back to longing for the destination of retirement and enjoying the journey is largely out the window
@steve-g
This may or may not be helpful because I am not your or even anybody's doctor but is there any way you can quit your job rather than trying for a 4-day week? I had a stressful job and got diagnosed with RA. I was on Sulfasalazine for a few years (I hated taking it but didn't notice any side effects, liver damage of course and frequent blood tests but no noticeable side effects that I remember). Now I haven't got the job or RA. Change of diet helped me too I think. Just in case it helps and hope things improve for you.
Hi
Cheers for the info. Lifestyle changes definitely help, diet, sleep, exercise etc. When all of those things are in sync then I do feel better but I have also tried coming off the meds with horrendous results. I don't think this will go away for me.
The medium term plan is to quit the job, I need a few years to get to a point where that is possible and work out what my next job might be
It's truly wonderful ..all of you telling us how things truly are.. despite the "suffering" . I use that term as I am an unofficial Buddhist .. ... 35 yrs ago I was well underway on the stress related illness journey . The mind was , as usual , on overdrive with negative bias and my daily medicine was a skinful booze to shut it up. I loved being drunk with the sedation and anxiolytic effects which quietened the mind and allowed me to find that rest that was otherwise elusive.
Mornings however were awful !
One day a flyer came through my flat letterbox .It was from a local Buddhist group offering free meditation classes and mentioning stress relief etc.
I was intrigued and excited but about to go on holiday so before leaving I went to the local library and a truly life changing book ended up in my hands. It was titled "The heart of Buddhism " by Guy Claxton.
The first few chapters were simply incredible from my point of view. In it he described the condition that I had experienced much of my adult life .. the unsatisfactoriness? of life and seemingly ubiquitous "suffering" we all experience but rarely talk about .
He summed up how I felt and the reasons why ..and that this was simply how things are . I felt so relieved that I wasn't alone ..there was a legitimate reason why I was chronically disillusioned with life despite having all I needed.
Those 2 weeks on holiday were enhanced dramatically by what I read and the understanding that it was "normal" ( despite me being on the extreme end due to a neurotic disposition)
When I returned I found another book called the calm technique which gave instruction on simple meditation . This was in the early 90's . I enthusiastically read the blurb and followed his method sitting on the sofa for 40 mins observing breath and repeating a mantra.
At the end of that first session (which was probably the most profound of the 1000's of sessions I have since had ) my mind was quiet and I felt more at peace than I had done for many years.I stood up and moved slowly ..taking my time ,before heading out to the Pub I visited daily .
The journey there involved crossing a park .. a route I had taken 100's of times before. As I walked through the park I noticed things that I had never seen before (due to the busy preoccupied mind ) . I could see the miracle of nature like never before .I arrived at the pub .. chose not to drink .. had some amazing conversations and felt at peace .
I have rarely replicated that experience since and perhaps I'm off topic now but I knew after that that peace was available if the mind was game . There's a well known phrase that we see the world not as it is .....but as we are , and it gave me hope .
Anyhow the revelation that suffering was everywhere ..even hidden in pleasurable experiences became clearer and I felt optimistic and comforted that a fellowship existed where my experience was understood .
I feel genuinely grateful and honoured to hear people talk about their vulnerabilities and struggles ..thank you again ...please keep contributing I think this thread or something similar could be a source of hope as well as a place to vent ,to cry and perhaps somehow get a little rest .
I too have often wished I would not wake up again but I do get good days occasionally . Today is one of them ..the sun is out and reading your stories is a privilege .
I think a line from a Robbie Williams song probably sums up where many of have ended up :
"I don't want to die but I ain't too keen on living either"
I expect the thread will dry up soon but hope it helps others and can perhaps be a little place where people can come to tell their story.
Forgive me for so much rambling btw .. I have spent years mulling all this over with nobody to listen so thank you for your patience and time.
Anyone needing help or a chat please go to my profile and email direct or PM . I will always be here to listen and talk to anyone feeling overwhelmed if that might help .
Cheers
Bill
I just came back to add a couple of points that I hope might add something to the thread
As many of you will know I have had my own issues and am left traumatised, vulnerable and fragile ( believe it or not 🙂 )
What has helped me:
Being open and honest - when folk ask " how are you? " I tell them the truth even if its been a bad day. When I need help and support I ask for it. I don't wait for it to be offered. The flip side of that is I also make an effort not to be a misery to my friends all the time so I also tell them the positives and I try to be cheerful
Talking to folk - on here, friends and professionals. Counseling has help me significantly
Reinforcing positives out loud. When I get the flashbacks which is often I tell myself " I am proud of what I did"
Be kind to yourself. Don't beat your self uo over what you have done or have not done
A key thing to remember IMO. " If your leg was broken you would tell folk, go to the doctor and ask people for help. So if your head is broken then do the same, tell people, see your doctor and ask for help when you need it"
A final thought:
Try to be tolerant of others foibles! this one I fail on badly 🙂
Good to have you back TJ!
Try to be tolerant of others foibles! this one I fail on badly 🙂
Reported to STW. "I'm in this post and I don't like it."
Rudderless ... here as well 🙁
Happy in the woods though 🙂
I'm still trying to sum up my thoughts to make sense to the audience.
Don't want to post up something that's the last on a given page in a thread as it feels like you've poured your heart out only for it to be not a new page and no one looks at it as its moved on?
See that's how messed up I am!
I should have become a nurse in my 20’s rather than in my 50’s.
That's something to be pleased about @RustySpanner, well done. Which branch of nursing & could you do the training to try one of the others?
@Edukator My post wasn't intended to slag off it was intended to point out things have moved on a bit since thee and me were youths. Modern life is rubbish (thanks Blur still applicable today) for the younger generation. Since the mid to late 90's it hasn't been possible to get your dole check delivered to the boulder with a postcode in Llanberis Pass, one needs to have the nose to the grindstone looking for work. We had the very best of the world being our oyster as young people our politicians then ****ed it up for those coming behind, bastards!
Modern life is rubbish (thanks Blur still applicable today) for the younger generation
I'm not sure my 24-year-old son would agree. We talked about it and the comparisons are interesting.
I finished A-levels just in time for the Winter of discontent, graduated when there were 3 million unemployed for the first time, spent 5 years at Welsh Water on temporary contracts and quit within months of them giving me a permanent one to emigrate. I was into motorsport, caving and mountaineering and had a ball. I never stopped.
He's had our support through education so is debt free. He's a ski instructor and producer DJ (nothing related to his main studies) and is having a ball, and never stops.
Like me at his age he lives in cheap flat shares with mates and has a carpe diem attitude to life and money.
He's worked out how the world works and is making his way in it without complex.
Don't forget you're comparing a relatively enlightened society (France) and the late 80's with the mess that we have now in UK. They have little or nothing in common for current UK residents.
My formative years we did at least have a chance of the housing ladder without need the the bank of mum and dad (SE England). Nowadays on minimum wage you pay rent and don't have enough left after living expenses to save for a deposit (If in London it's even worse, couples on 50K a year struggling after rent on a flat). Then when one has the deposit the zero hours contract prevents a mortgage at a sensible price. It was bad enough in 2008/9 when I was unemployed (with a well paid wife and a small redundancy cheque to support me) signing on for my NI cover (JSA for the first 6 weeks only) and it's got worse since then.
Nowadays on minimum wage you pay rent and don’t have enough left after living expenses to save for a deposit
I was in that position until 1993 whether in the UK, France, Spain or Germany. At that point being self-employed started to pay off. But being self-employed no bank would lend me money, so I've never had a mortgage and had to wait till there was enough in the bank before buying property.
London was already out of bounds for many in the 80s. Some were already getting a mortgage on a small part of a house. The house price crash of 89 provided the last opportunity for low earners to get on the London housing ladder but by 94 people were once again priced out.
The main thing that's changed IMO is Brexit. Junior has chosen Berlin as his main base, a French passport makes that possible. If I were a young Brit I'd be parousing the lists of professions that give access to Canada, Oz, New Zealand or international jobs elsewhere.
EDIT thread derailment
am now on Methotrexate to treat that. I have to take the MTX once a week and it completely wipes me out for 24 hours, dizzy, tired, nauseous, anxious
Does the doc know this? Years back my missus was on mtx, didn't get on with it and had been on self injections since. They got cheaper recently too so might be more available. If they don't know you're suffering they won't change it. Apologies if you've been through all this!
Hi
Self injections of what sorry? I am on injections of MTX, it's not as bad as the tablets but still gets me.
I've tried the hydrochloroquine or whatever it's called and I am not tolerant of that at all.
The issue I have is that the MTX works just at a massive cost - liver issues and the nasty side effects. As far as the RA doctors see it that's their job done. I have called out to them that I've had to change jobs due to the side effects etc and that's not something they are concerned with. Their opinion is the MTX works and is the least risky thing, do stick with it, and in the summer I agree with them when it's working, the winter has been tough. It's all a learning curve I suppose.
Took a lunch today and left the desk, went for a walk, need to look after after stress and rest levels as mentioned above
It's funny how these threads dry up ..I guess you can only talk so much about such things . I'm unwell yet again .. a common theme these days .. somatic expression of internal conflict ..I think it's called somatic symptom disorder ..all sorts of unpleasant physical feelings with no obvious cause. If only the mind was more designed to make us feel good rather than just surviving at all costs... Life might be short but enjoyable rather than a painful and long .
Hey, we're still here.
Trying to tidy the house today as it's literally filthy and it is an outward expression of my helplessness in the face of things I absolutely could and should have control over but I just can't.
Quick press submit before I delete this.
EDIT
If only the mind was more designed to make us feel good rather than just surviving at all costs
Is it your mind's fault, or is it society's fault?
I have been endlessly scrolling through listicles on FB and one tweet stood out. Something along the lines of 'I have been to loads of therapies, been prescribed drugs, read endless books but nothing has helped my state of mind anywhere near as much as having got a job that is not shit'
Not to say that everyone needs a new job; just that maybe it's not you that's the problem?
Trying to tidy the house today as it’s literally filthy and it is an outward expression of my helplessness in the face of things I absolutely could and should have control over but I just can’t.
Are you me?
I recognise the "job that's not shit" quote. If anyone finds one, let me know.
Meanwhile, 3 weeks after being signed off work, the roller coaster of starting Citalopram is proving quite exciting, but last night I had my first decent night's sleep in months, and I feel a million dollars.
Nice.
My job is actually good and extremely lenient. But this is part of it. I'm meant to be filling my own time productively when not directly helping customers, but without a customer situation to solve I just drift. And then I am always feeling like I should've done more (and I should) so I don't feel like doing housework. And there are DIY jobs to do instead of housework so they eventually get done instead.
Here goes. I have a good job and a lovely family.
However I feel permanently stuck between feeling extremely angry and sad that my dad basically had a second wife for 20 years before and after my mum died in 2013.
It makes me feel like my whole life history is a joke……. So definitely semblance of normal outside and quiet desperation on the inside with far too much alcohol to take the edge off permanent anguish.
An interesting thread, life is an odd thing, we didn't ask for it, we lucked out being born into the western world, perhaps. We have a lot better standard of life than others around the world, but with it the materialism and space to think why.
Life is essentially meaningless, you, live, you die and at the end little you did will have mattered.
So why spend time thinking about all this, go out, enjoy a sunrise walk, marvel at the weirdness of the constructs we made, why with rise and fall of the sun did we decide on 7 day weeks, with 5 of them being 'working' days for so many of us, more for some. The world is stupid, but you are only on it a while, might as well enjoy that time in whatever way you can?
I think there is a massive difference between those who feel life is just a bit meaningless and those who are really struggling. For the former, looking on the bright side might help but for the latter there is no bright side.
When you feel defective at your core, when your whole life has been about battling depression, when you feel full of rage and toxic shame, when you feel you're being eaten from the inside out, when you wake up every day and wish to god you hadn't, no amount of sunsets or country walks are going to do a damn thing.
I do think a job that suited me would have helped, I think it's probably too late now. I only ever found one and couldn't continue for health reasons. I do wonder if it was self-sabotage. I seem to do that.
As for therapy, I think it depends on whether you can use it to move on. I couldn't do that but it did at least help me understand. As with a lot of people, my issues go back to childhood and it made me realise that the poor decisions I made were rooted in poor parenting by people who had been poorly parented themselves and made similarly poor decisions. Add in a few undiagnosed personality disorders or a number of traits of personality disorders that not only affected them but they managed to pass on and you've got quite a mix.
I found anti-depressants helpful but they gave me severe bruxism and the pain got too much to bear so i had to come off them.
So now it's alcohol only which obviously makes things worse.
And dog walks and cuddles and care which makes things a little better.
After abuse the nhs doctors and surgeons operated on me without my consent and against My expressed wishes.As a 16 year old I was operated upon using consent given by my mum who was lied to by the doctors and resulted in permanent disability and then kept me on morphine - lots - for three decades which they continually told me was only addictive if abused. Addict mates told me that was/is bullshit.I was drugged to stop me exposing their malfeasance. Then I was ****ed about over many years- blamed- and told to sort it out myself....
When I managed myself to cluck three decades of opiate addiction they tried to section me forcibly a few times....
For my safety...
They doctored my notes and refused to supply all of them for more than a year and the police farce became involved whereupon I was beaten by them and further abused. Apparently it is all my fault...
I genuinely believe now they are out to kill me (!) and now I am labelled psychotic which I may well be now.
Oh and they killed my little sister- who had cancer by means of a diamorphine injection nowhere mentioned on death certificate whilst I was trying to come off morphine ... Deo Mor Pian.
Please don’t tell me this doesn’t happen here nhs etc. Neo Harold Shipman. Gosport Hospital proves otherwise.Many deaths of people under “ care “ of local mental health services- “ accidents “.
I now am permanently crippled unable to work and look after myself. Meanwhile I raised as a single dad my son from before he was two and he is now successful and a dad himself.Inner city shitty.
The drs jabbed my dad six hours later hospital and now he can no longer mountain bike or do all the country boy stuff he could do or even look after hisself. They said ( very qk onset )
Parkinsons.
I am pretty angry....
Do you want to hear more? No.
Doctoring is the verb not practice.
Medical notes ARE changed.Lies.Mis representations abound.Splogginess ha ha ha.
**** them.
I was experimented on.I do not believe this post will appear.
Yes I do call seaneenagins.
**** them.
Is life worth living? Depends if I can afford to self medicate with Paddy and a v small amount of weed.I cannot/caint/cant/**** King Canute etc.
Yes you took my posts down.
Pikey a ****ing Lurcher.
Arrogance is the English disease.
Physician heal thyself.
They continually try to provoke a reaction...
Ps I am not a Troll but the state is.
Anyway thanks op and I expect the heavies and the police to arrive to finish me off sometime after I press submit.
So I told them every dr app for at least 5 years “ you are literally driving me insane.That is at least once a month and nowhere is this I medical records.
Apologies op I do not consider this a pissing competition as most stw threads are.Middle class english...
Apologies again I have neither been drinking or blazing.
I am just full of it - righteous indignation and reactive anger.
Apologies.
Probably won’t beo posting again.
AnSeo AnSin
A copla focal.
I caint write proper Lee.
I cant write proper Lee.
Proper cant.
Blimey .. big hugs to you lot .. my troubles are seemingly minor compared to what many of you are coping with or have been through.
I doubt I could cope with half the things many of you struggle with .. not without alcohol which is now history or I will be.
I simply live with an unfulfilled life despite having done so much which is accompanied by depression and anxiety (they say) and an intense fear of the future ..( not death but mental anguish)
I am hijacked regularly with numerous unpleasant bodily symptoms of anxiety etc which debilitate me and lead to meltdowns which require weeks to recover from . Because of this pattern and despite numerous therapies meds etc I cannot commit to be reliable in any workplace despite needing one to survive. Any form of mental stress and I crumble.
As a younger man I was strong and confident and have been round the world searching? as I said in a previous post. I guess searching for a better way through this life. The default path was not for me and made me feel trapped.I even appeared on the generation game with Bruce! ( YT link ..if interested! ) ..I accept though that was unlikely to lead to enlightenment!
Am I unwell or just not very compatible with the society we live in ?
There I go again .. talking about myself ..constantly preoccupied with how I feel and wanting a release. Oh for the peace a bottle of whisky would bring!. .. I can't/won't go there though as the cost is too high .
To all fellow sufferers ..let's keep talking and try to release the internal pressure we all feel and are desperate to be rid of.
I come back to this thread regularly and read all the posts so your words won't be wasted.
Love to all
Bill
Big hug back to you @kaiser
Re the other posts, I guess there's always someone worse off than you.
And I think however big or small your problem is, they are all equally relevant.
It's just when people say what helps them and you know for you it wouldn't even touch the sides, it kind of makes you feel worse. But that gives you a chance to say something so it all helps.
My post came at my worst time. It's not always that bad.
Nothing wrong with talking about yourself either. Don't feel guilty about that because that is just holding it in.
A lot of this resonates with me too. I think the main problem is the mind is a brilliant tool for problem solving but not so great when it turns in on itself for whatever reason. I think many people fill their lives with things to buy and things to do so they never have time to sit down and listen to what is going on in their heads. But then again maybe I am just jealous of what I don't have 🙂
I am very reclusive largely down to OCD and there are many days when I wake up and wish I hadn't. Cycling can be a release but OCD tends to attack the very things you want the most so sometimes it brings more unhappiness than joy.
Peace of mind for me and a few others by the looks of it is what we want rather than happiness which is fleeting anyway but it can be so difficult to find it and I sometimes think I never will (late 50s) but you have to keep trying.
Think someone else said it in this thread, knowing there are so many others who have similiar feelings doesn't actually make me feel any better, just makes me wish they didn't.
Ok
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