[Closed] The Last Jedi - Seen it, contains spoilers!

I actually had a bit of an epiphany this morning.

Of course they're not going to give us the backstory to Snoke or the Knights of Ren just now.

They'll do a spin off film set between ROTJ and TFA to do that. Means they can milk more money from us!

EDIT: Just before TFA came out, the Star Wars: Battlefront came out and there were a few teasers about TFA in that.

The new Battlefront game is just out, and it may provide some hints...

(from the wiki page plot discussion)

"Many decades later, Del is captured on Pillio by Protectorate Gleb, who hands him over to Kylo Ren and the First Order. Ren uses the Force to interrogate Del about the location of the map leading to Luke Skywalker. Once Ren succeeds, he leaves Del in the custody of Hask, who survived getting shot down at Jakku. Hask expresses disgust at Del choosing to father a daughter with Iden instead of becoming a soldier and kills him, but not before Del warns him not to confront Iden. [b]Hask then warns Gleb that the Republic cannot find out about "Project Resurrection"[/b] and orders her to leave the Corvus on Pillio as bait to lure Iden out of hiding."

I saw it last night. Properly disappointed. There were moments that were good - like Fin going into that battering ram, which I think he should have - but it was all over the place. That casino scene - what on earth?

It just wasn’t coherent. That Mary Poppins scene, I mean, really?

It felt a bit like they had a tick list of things to include - Luke (tick), yoda (tick), new Han Solo (tick), Etc

Jumangi is better alas. 😆

Saw it last night as was a bit underwhelmed to be honest.

Let's get the cinema/ambience issue dealt with right now - last night really, really put me off going to the cinema. I had to sit next to some pillock and his missus. He'd brought in what appeared to be a three course meal and seemed to be doing some kind of plot 'interpretation' job on behalf of his gormless other half. I found it especially gauling when he exclaimed "that's brilliant" at one point. Thanks for sharing, fatso.

Anyway onto the film. I thought it was OK - but the trite bits of 'banter' and the little bits like Luke's illusion brushing dust of his shoulder just made me think that the only adults this would be targeted at are the knuckleheads who think Fast and Furious 19 is a 'great film'.

But here's the thing. Adults - this film is not really for you. It is a kids film. So were all the others (with the possible exception of Rogue One) - you first saw them when you were a kid and you feel like you have 'grown up' with them, when in fact you are harking back to them. The prequels tried to do 'grown up' in some ways with the politics and structures on which they placed some emphasis. And they pleased basically no one.

So, as a kids film I think it will work - kids need some laughs ("spunk" - hee hee), to break up a 2.5 hour film. I would just be dreading any kid asking me a 'deep' question about it - my answer would most likely be a shrug of the shoulders as I haven't a clue either.

'Bombers'? In space? Travelling at about 20 mph against what is supposed to be the equivalent of the Tirpitz and yet using [u]gravity[/u] to 'drop' their bombs? And they have mastered space flight and travelling at light speed yet seemingly not a way of delivering a payload that doesn't involve looking down, opening a hatch and kicking them out?

Bombers'? In space? Travelling at about 20 mph against what is supposed to be the equivalent of the Tirpitz and yet using gravity to 'drop' their bombs? And they have mastered space flight and travelling at light speed yet seemingly not a way of delivering a payload that doesn't involve looking down, opening a hatch and kicking them out?

And it's lucky that yet again there are really obvious vulnerable places on these spaceships.

I had to ask why the bombardier had a remote control big red switch and no other way of activation. In fact, other than for obvious tension building, why did the bombers have two crew? (To open the doors manually and not be vacuumed to death?)

Saw it last week - it's the worst film I've seen for a long time.

Just got back from seeing it with the kids.

It's a kids film. They enjoyed it. I enjoyed it too.

Sure, it doesn't stand up to scrutiny, and some bits were a bit crap (Poppins, Maz) but it was a just a kids film.

Laura Dern with purple hair made caused a disturbance in my particular Force, but I'm quite old.

People get so upset about the bombs, yet this is a series of films with consistent gravity on board space going ships of all sizes, ships and speeds.

Not to mention consistent gravity on moons and planets of all sizes.

In all Sci-Fi the sci bit is nonsense. Faster than light travel anyone? what about time dilation effect from faster than light travel? Sending a message to outer rim of the galaxy for help instantly. Noise of lasers, explosions engines in space. Lasers being flashes of light when there is really anything to reflect off in space.starship design, where's the AI controlling ships in combat and loads of other stuff.

We have become so used to accepting all this as possible to allow space opera Sci-Fi.

In terms of the bombers, don't the ships have shields, maybe only slow moving un-propelled ordinance will work (Dune?). As mentioned above all the ships have standard gravity, maybe the gravity field extends in a sphere outside the ship. Which is obviously made up nonsense but then so is the film....

No see that wasn't hard. And I suppose is Leia's space floating more or less ridiculous than Force projecting Luke across Galaxy or Rey lifting tons of rock.

The bombers were a bit daft, but if there's gravity within the ship, then if you drop something in the ship (a load of bombs) they'll fall.... right through the open doors and then keep on going in that direction in open space.

The original death Star sequence was a homage to the dambusters, I guess this was a homage to Memphis belle!?

Why they couldn't just fire missiles from a distance though!?

Wasn't there a scene in Event Horizon where a fella floats through space unprotected? I seem to remember he doesn't come out of that too well? Maybe The Force stopped Leia's eyeballs exploding?

It felt a bit too long, I could pick holes in it for hours, but I still enjoyed it.

I thought it was good also in a kids way. I had a dusty moment when jnr - a week away from being 9 - was sat up on the edge of his seat in awe. Thats exactly how I remember seeing the first film and it moved me that hes had the same reaction. Spaceships and lasers at that age -cool!

Yes theres some bio mechanical flaws, gravity issues, Leighs floating around space, story line problems but why be so analytical, just enjoy the ride.

Oh and the cinema experience:

A) parents do not have to stand up to direct thier family to other seats
B) turn your phone off
C) fist pumps in front of people - uh uh not allowed, we are British dont you know
D) please dont have a bath in garlic before you come to the cinema
E) shutting down a till when one of the peak films is on forcing 15 or so people so re-queue is stupid. Wait 15 mins then place will be empty
F) £45. Who the **** spends £45 on pick and mix, jesus...

£45. Who the **** spends £45 on pick and mix, jesus...

Not me. Trip to the local shop for drinks and Haribo before the cinema every time 😆

In all Sci-Fi the sci bit is nonsense. Faster than light travel anyone? what about time dilation effect from faster than light travel?

Hyperspace. They aren't travelling through normal space so no time dilation. Or some kind of warp drive where space is compressed in front of the ship and expanded behind it- again FTL travel with no time dilation.

In terms of the bombers, don't the ships have shields, maybe only slow moving un-propelled ordinance will work (Dune?). As mentioned above all the ships have standard gravity, maybe the gravity field extends in a sphere outside the ship.

Fair play but if I was the admiral and all my close range weapons were down and I saw a load of hostiles coming towards me I'd just jump to hyperspace, materialise a few 1000 kms away and blast them with my main weapons

It's a kids film and it's space opera not fully realised sci-fi so does it matter that much???

I liked it, if the film makers had really concentrated on their core audience all the old characters would be gone at the start like Alec Guinness, but they kept them in to try and appeal to the older fans who are now bloody moaning

The Last Jedi - Seen it, contains spoilers!

Yep, seen it now.

It contained a massive spoiler in that I missed about 30 mins of it whilst in the toilet with my twelve year old son who had over indulged in popcorn, coke and haribo and was spewing his ring.

Apparently Snoke dies?

Sure, it doesn't stand up to scrutiny, and some bits were a bit crap (Poppins, Maz) but it was a just a kids film.

It's a kids film and it's space opera not fully realised sci-fi so does it matter that much???

This sort of thing keeps popping up. I've seen loads of kids films over the last 14 years. Even the ones with talking fish and bears in overcoats were more logical and believable, never mind the superhero films that everyone pretends are mainstream adult films. Just because you're watching a kids film you don't need to suspend your critical faculties. Almost any Pixar film will be better written, have more tension, better acting and better character development. Perhaps if they bought the Star Wars name they could save money by doing away with all of that and simply put loads of CGI in to satisfy the easily amused?

I saw it with my parents yesterday. It was my second viewing. I enjoyed it more this time around, partly because I was prepared for how long it was and I knew there were certain bits I should just not pay too much attention to.

I still feel it is too long and that it should have been possible to tell the same story in less time without losing anything worthwhile. Space Vegas shouldn't be there, with Rose's character and the spark of hope foreshadowing being handled in a different manner. The Luke/Rey stuff could be done quicker. I would prefer the Rey/Ren/Snoke scene to be closer to the end rather than in the middle.

My parents however enjoyed it, probably more than The Force Awakens or Rogue One.

On second viewing I think I noticed a nice touch. Yoda torches the Jedi tree before Luke can go inside and when Luke decries the loss of the Jedi texts, I think Yoda says something like "They do not contain anything she does not already have". I think he says "have" rather than "know" and if he does that indicates he knows she's nicked them and they're not in the burning tree. So he's not saying she's necessarily fully trained, but Luke's put her on the right path and if she needs them she has access to the texts.

It's a kids film and it's space [s]opera[/s] panto not fully realised sci-fi so does it matter that much???

FTFY

My 9yr old loved it, as did my inner 9 year old. My 45 year old self had a few cynical moments and my 74 year old dad said it was the worst film he's ever seen. Make of that what you will.

My 9yr old loved it, as did my inner 9 year old. My 45 year old self had a few cynical moments and my 74 year old dad said it was the worst film he's ever seen. Make of that what you will.

Whereas I hated it (49), my wife loved it (she thinks Neighbours is great), my 14 yr old said 'it's a Star Wars film, why is there so much talking", and both my 10 and 6 year olds thought it was boring. We all loved the previous two films.

Come to think of it, my wife loves panto as well. 😆

There you go. If you take it at panto level, you'll love it!
My favourite bit was the uniform ironing room. I was so glad to see that it isn't and shouldn't be taking itself at all seriously. This was the film series that brought us Ewoks and Jarjar after all.

She deffo took the books as in nearly the very last scene when fin is on the bed (I think), c3po opens a drawer under the bed and you see the texts in there.

'it's a Star Wars film, why is there so much talking",

I take it hasn’t seen the others?

I saw it today and thought it was pretty poor. Some good scenes, but overall a film made to sell toys and the 4DX ‘experience’. Too many filler scenes to show off 4DX, which I thought was a distraction hiding what was a fairly awful film. For me, it was like Dr Who five years ago, when I just stopped caring about it anymore.

Mary Poppins - ridiculous.
Too many little cutesy animals, likely appearing under Christmas trees in soft form.
Needless characters, obviously streetwise and sassy. Rose added nothing.
Space Vegas - again, filler.

Having seen Rogue One and loving it, I had high hopes. Rogue One build an impending sense of doom, this just didn’t. I really didn’t care by the end whether they got wiped out or not.

rob2 - Member
She deffo took the books as in nearly the very last scene when fin is on the bed (I think), c3po opens a drawer under the bed and you see the texts in there.

I know that (though Finn opened the drawer looking for a blanket for Rose), I was saying that I liked a bit of dialogue which suggested that Yoda also knew and covered up the theft so that Luke wouldn't realise she'd taken them.

Watched it last night...... is confused......

What's Ratboy doing in it?

Is this the first film where one of the droids actually kills people* and shoots stuff up? When BB8 gets in the walker to help Finn and Rose get off the ship.
Also that whole scene was a bit jarring for me, up there with the racehorse things on the pointless casino planet.

*I think maybe R2-D2 knocks somebody off Jabba's barge to their doom in ROTJ, but otherwise I don't think they have taken that sort of direct action before.

It was so bad.

I saw it yesterday, with my 10-yr old. I enjoyed it.

As said already, there were:

- some really daft bits (Poppins)
- some bits that didn't add much value (casino trip)
- some bits that didn't make sense (Rey learning the force, purple hair woman at the end)
- and it was too long etc. etc.

but the central theme worked well I thought, and the interplay between Ben and Rey worked, I think.

I think Rey was great but I was disappointed when Fin wasn't killed off.

Saw it yesterday - I enjoyed the Audi R8 snow control ad more.

Just a bit boring, went home and watched Rogue 1, thought that was a better film

Laura Dern with purple hair made caused a disturbance in my particular Force

She looks much better with red hair. "**** you, Snoke."

Kids said they could do anything they wanted on Saturday. They insisted on seeing the film again. We all enjoyed it again the second time. Fun.

but I was disappointed when Fin wasn't killed off

[img] [/img]

This video seems to mesh well with my faults. My complaints are not those of the die hard Star Wars fans, but there are flaws in the movie and they feel like they could have been avoided without changing its essential arc or theme.

Apart from whats already been said -

Nobody thought that using the medical frigate to tear a hole in the pursuing fleet whilst it still had fuel might be a plan? Really?

Phasma. Badass. But prone to moments of tremendous generosity by allowing someone with enough knowledge to bypass all defences to get within moments of disabling their tracker to just walk off with money and a ship just because he gave some info over? Honestly? I can only suspend my belief so far. By rights it would be the zappy bed machine from Empire followed by a swift boot in the arse out the closest airlock.

Finn has never come across as the brightest star in the galaxy (he is a stormtrooper after all) but you would have to be pretty ****ing thick not to just run straight back into the corn field. If they had thermal cameras they would be using them already.

The only bit I wouldn't have batted an eye at was if the little Mary Poppins urchins had spoken with a Dick Van Dyke styled mockney accent. Was half expecting the little turd to greet them with a chirpy "Awrite guv'nor"!

Very much felt like Phantom Menace trying to be Empire and Jedi with a bit of stroppy teenage Anakin tantrum action thrown in. Daisy Ridley doesnt even bother me.

As for chasing them down, why not, they werent going anywhere and it just tortured them as they knew it (or so they thought). I did like that.

Just back from the cinema using up the last of my bank account free cinema tickets.

It was dreadful.

Is this what we are using to introduce a current generation to what is the great original 3 Star Wars films?

There were some good bits but lots and lots of poor bits, big and small.

Lots of very odd delays like how long did it take the purple haired woman to decide to ram the enemy ships, she could have done that a lot sooner and saved lots more of the other ships.

Also how long were they deciding to evacuate the base while the bad guy and Luke must have been stood looking at each other.

So many bits just went that little bit too far and corny. Like Fins "chrome dome" comment. That was obviously Disneyfied for the kids. A simple "Bring it!" would have been much more effective.

Everytime they were starting to get nice and dark like Star Wars should be they seemed to chicken out. I want to see and feel the Jedis pain and feel like all is indeed lost for it to end with a flicker of hope.

Where did the Falcon go when the big gun was powering up?

Old luke was simply dreadful. I don't know if it was the script, the director, the actor or a combination of all 3 but his role was cringeworthy and not worthy of the legacy of Luke Skywalker.

I suspect kids will love it though. It's just not a patch of what I grew up with on the first 3 and the last one before this was also very good IMO.

Second viewing last night confirmed in my mind it's pants.

Everytime they were starting to get nice and dark like Star Wars should be they seemed to chicken out.

Quite right:
[img] [/img]

Harry Potter meets Pokemon in space.

* purple haired middle class hippy as a ship commander.

* guns in space now arc due to gravity apparently

* dumb bombs and ball turrets? taking the ww2 inspiration too far, its now mad max in space. As a kid I wanted to see futuristic b-wings and semi believable space dogfights. Not World war 1 carpet bombing in space.

* terrible plot and pacing

* worse hann RoTJ

Also, clearly using a mopey Kylo Ren and Rey as some kind of overarching Twighlight plotline to appeal to girls. Made all the more obvious by all of the empire badies and bridge crew bring men... save one stormtrooper, whilst most if the bridge on the rebel side was apparently staffed by the WI. Wonder if cake sales will be used to buy them new x wings.

Snore.

“Remember,” said Obi-Wan Kenobi to a young Luke Skywalker in the first Star Wars film, “a Jedi can feel the Force flowing through him”.

Talk about pale, male and stale. In the 40 years since, the series has become more progressive. “The Last Jedi,” proclaimed The Guardian, “is the most triumphantly feminist Star Wars movie yet.”

“Both in terms of women and non-white characters, there’s a celebratory inclusiveness that seems entirely in the Jedi spirit,” wrote film critic Anna Smith. “The Last Jedi depicts women as multifaceted, multi-generational, multiracial,” said Annalise Ophelian, author of Social Justice Practice in Documentary Filmmaking.

“It is a deeply empathetic story that explores the dangers of toxic masculinity, the competency of women, and the boxes we all must break out of to be free,” wrote Katyi Burt of movie review website Den of Geek.

Rejoice if you will at the demise of the patriarchy in that galaxy far, far away. You probably left the cinema with a sense of satisfaction at this blow for equality, thinking this film edgy and woke. But if you search your inner feelings there is a sense of disquiet — perhaps even disgust — at what has become the series’ central message. Disney is what we in the progressive movement call a “fake ally”.

At first glance, the film projects messages that appear consistent with feminist discourse. The women leaders of the Resistance are composed and serene, patiently demonstrating to the likes of Poe that men are testosterone-fuelled dullards. A suicide mission by Finn is portrayed as an act of male stupidity averted only by the intervention of a female character, Rose. Conversely, we applaud the selfless sacrifice of Vice-Admiral Holdo, who gave her life when she deliberately rammed her cruiser into an Imperial ship.

Adam Driver as Kylo Ren.
Adam Driver as Kylo Ren.
Luke, once the hero of the Rebellion, is withdrawn and depressed at having failed to prevent Ben Solo from turning to the Dark Side. As Burt correctly notes, failing to forgive oneself is symptomatic of the male ego.

Along comes Rey, a confident, bold, and white — I’ll return to that later — woman. She demands the Jedi Master train her in the ways of the Force, and her actions lift Luke out of his malaise. She does not kowtow to her male tutor nor address him as ‘Master’, and she even knocks him to the ground when demanding answers.

In reality, Disney reinforces male hegemony under the cloak of gender equality. Rey reverently caresses the sacred and ancient Jedi texts, oblivious of its misogynist tenets. They seemingly eschew anger, aggression and fear, holding that these are the pathway to the Dark Side. Instead the Jedi lauded stoicism, self-control, objective truths, and logic, but they are a ruse designed to control women.

As feminist scholars have demonstrated, logic and objectivity are patriarchal constructs. How naive was The Guardian in declaring feminism and inclusivity were consistent with the “Jedi spirit”? As we now know, subjective experience, the display of emotion, and the acknowledgment of multiple truths are the gateway to knowledge. Rey does not recognise this, but foolishly acquiesces in the Jedi’s oppressive ideology. Fail.

Rey is also oblivious to the fact that the remote Jedi island of Ahch-To is a hotpotch of misogyny and other forms of bigotry. Remember the curious fishlike creatures known as the “Caretakers” who do the domestic heavy lifting for Luke? “They’re all female, and I wanted them to feel like a remote sort of little nunnery,” said director Rian Johnson.

Seriously? And for all you people who ridicule the concept of intersectionality, what do you say of this callous speciesm on top of the misogyny? Instead of chastising a self-indulgent Luke for relying on the domestic servitude of females, Rey is a party to it, laughing at the Caretakers’ angst at seeing her damage a temple wall. There is little to no acknowledgment of the fact the inhabitants are indigenous. Despite the great diversity of the galaxy, its non-human inhabitants feature only sporadically, and usually as a source of amusement. It is an offensive stereotype. Fail.

John Boyega as Finn.
John Boyega as Finn.
Unfortunately the travesties only get worse, but even the most appalling one went undetected. Ahch-To is a place of rugged beauty and safety, but with one monstrous exception — the black pit, where the Dark Side lurks.

“The idea that if there’s a Jedi Temple up top, the light, it has to be balanced by a place of great darkness,” explained Johnson. “We’re drawing a very obvious connection to Luke’s training and to Dagobah here, obviously,” he said. Could the allegory be any more blatant, especially given Luke’s terror as Rey contemplates its presence? Think about it.

“In our society, men are scared of vaginas,” wrote Huffington Post contributor June Eric-Udorie in 2014. “Men hate women simply because we have vaginas instead of penises — that is a fact.” Luke’s panic-stricken reaction to Rey’s contemplation is representative of this phobia, and it in turn reinforces the fiction that women’s bodies are something to be loathed and feared. Massive fail.

As for the remaining prejudices, stereotypes and microaggressions, the list is endless. When are the producers ditching the lightsaber, which we all know is a phallic anachronism? As for the hundreds of characters featured in this film, how many of them are in the LGBTI category? We do not want to hear patronising assurances that it was open for the audience to speculate, for as we know all too well an absence of overt acknowledgment defaults to a heterosexual cisgender ‘norm’. Why do we have to put up with offensive binary pronouns? Do you think it mere coincidence that the only kissing scene in the movie is one between a man and a woman?

Mark Hamill as Luke Skywalker.
Mark Hamill as Luke Skywalker.
Did it occur to you people gushing over the film’s supposedly feminist cred that all the women leaders were white? Was there any acknowledgment that — in addition to patriarchy — the Republic had been corrupted by hate speech and a failure to celebrate diversity? Did the producers not consider featuring any characters with a disability, or did they simply think that the token display of Luke’s mechanised hand absolved them of any ablelist biases?

General Leia Organa, the leader of the Resistance, is supposedly a feminist icon, but there is too much of the white saviour syndrome about her. The producers would insist they were attributing supernatural powers to her given her survival in a vacuum, but it appears they were secretly mocking women leaders by portraying her as a spaced out Mary Poppins.

How many of you cheered at the fiery demise of Captain Phasma, the evil female stormtrooper commander? On one hand it was closure for the psychologically-abused Finn, but in theory a woman and a person of colour should be allies. Seeing them fight was distressing, and I could not help but recall the prescient words of British Shadow Home Secretary Diane Abbott who in 2012 observed “White people love playing ‘divide & rule’. We should not play their game.”

Incidentally, has anyone asked George Lucas, the creator of Star Wars, what he thinks? Like Luke, he is now aged and bearded, and for all we know he is a recluse on some windswept island, desiring only solitude. Ask him about the Rebellion’s legacy and he is likely to tell you to piss off.

😆

alternative views are available
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b09jcq10
34 mins in read by Simon 🙂

“To help JJ plan the next film here's the perfect formula:

Make it the same as the original trilogy, but also make it different. But dont change anything. Make sure to include surprises, but not surprises we dont want. In fact avoid surprises. But dont rehash anything. Also dont try something new, because we wont like it. Make sure to do justice to the cast, but we wont say how. Just make sure to get it right. I want it to be exactly the way I want it. Just a bit different. And also the same. Make sure we know the back story to all the characters even the incidental ones (because we are all speculating and you better be reading my mind) but leave it mysterious at the same time. No CGI! Keep it practical. But make sure to expand the universe like the prequels did, you know, using CGI. Also dont do anything the prequels did. Or Force Awakens. Or the original trilogy. But make it like those films too. Give it some humour too. But dont make it too funny. Show us some new force powers! But not ones we havent seen before because new powers are ridiculous. Dont kill anyone! it betrays my childhood. But also make it unpredictable by killing off a few characters.

Clear? Good.”

Also, Star Wars is a bit behind the times politically - they're still stuck in the days of the British Empire.

Really,if they wanted to be edgy, they'd be portraying the resistance as populist rebellion die hards riding on a wave of anti establishment values - where their specieism leads to the wiping out of the Ewoks on Endor via Death Star exploding induced climate change, where the Jedi are scaoegoated and genocided for the actions of a lone nutter sending the galaxy into an epic French Revolution among the stars....with Kylo Ren and establishment old guard saving the day.

you know it's not a documentary don't you.... or have you moved to Cali for the legal weed man 😉

No, but I think the writers did. It was all a bit 1970's Cali/burning man radical feminist. The message was about 30 years out of date, we get it already.

But apparently preach cliches are edgy in a Star Wars movie. According to Vice, the Guardian etc.

Cali/burning man radical feminist.

The message was about 30 years out of date, we get it already.