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Sketchy reporting so far, but it seems the three people who were in the house have been arrested for murder! Are there some new laws coming into force regarding defending your property?? Oh and as for his three mates (accomplices) nice, just left him in the road to bleed to death. 😯
we need to get more details to decide.
you can defend your property and yourself but you can only use reasonable force.Do you want the right to use unreasonable force ?
Your possessions can always be replaced but lifes cannot and all lives are precious. A parent grieves tonight
nothing in stories like this make me happy.
What JY said. There are no winners here. 😐
Horrible occurrence all round, I have to be honest if 3 people in balaclavas burst into my house with my family in it, my response would be very robust.
The three people with the stabbed man at the time of the incident have yet to be traced, Mr Mulligan said.
[b]
He urged them[/b], or anyone who knows of their whereabouts, [b]to contact Greater Manchester Police[/b].
Like that's going to happen!
As above it's too early to judge (even on the internet!) but imo the moment you attempt to burgle another you are putting yourself in harms way. Might be mitigating factors to follow I guess.
4 people burglarising a house?
I'm going to, and on no evidence whatsoever, say this is going to be drug related. As in they were after a drug stash. Allegedly.
In this day and age is it not a case of like for like?
If the intruder is screaming at you, you can scream back.If he hits you,you can hit him back.If he does whatever to you,you can do the same back but if you step over the mark and stab him after he was shouting at you.. you can expect to go down for it? Poor show if thats the case!
Junkyard - Memberwe need to get more details to decide.
you can defend your property and yourself but you can only use reasonable force.Do you want the right to use unreasonable force ?
Your possessions can always be replaced but lifes cannot and all lives are precious. A parent grieves tonight
nothing in stories like this make me happy.
sadly, i doubt very much that the intruders announced to the homeowner that they were merely just going to help themselves to their possessions and then leave.... People wil always seek to defend themselves, their family and their property. Would you just stay in bed and wait for......?
Will this mean an increase in burglars going into homes "tooled up" to defend themselves, not a pretty thought in my opinion.
Oh and 4 burglars in a house, i agree sounds more like a kicking was in the offing or similar.
My response would be "take whatever the **** you want but leave us alone" despite me being mr crazy motherducking ninja man. 😯
My response would be "take whatever the **** you want but leave us alone" despite me being mr crazy motherducking ninja man
Most would act similar. Thing is you are expecting the intruders to have the same moral compass as you do. Only recently a guy was in my local paper for getting stabbed after being mugged. The mugger demanded his phone, wallet etc. He complied and handed them over, and then matey stabbed him anyway. Guy just survived.
There is a point in there somewhere.
If the intruder is screaming at you, you can scream back.If he hits you,you can hit him back.If he does whatever to you,you can do the same back but if you step over the mark and stab him after he was shouting at you.. you can expect to go down for it? Poor show if thats the case
There's a little bit more to it than that but kind of the gist. 4 against one then reasonable force to defend yourself might be seen as different as 1 on 1.
Regardless of that this is a horrible situation.
4 guys in balaclava's......!
somehow I think this is more than just burglery...
still sad ...someone is dead though.
There is a point in there somewhere.
🙂
Probably, that sometimes, it's just not gonna be your day.
Probably, that sometimes, it's just not gonna be your day.
Indeed.
No new laws are needed - you can use reasonable force to defend yourself and your property and people use this as a successful defence all the time.
Like I say very sketchy at the mo, I heard four intruders, but heard nothing re the drugs stash. Theyve got to be serious bad asses to refuse to roll over to four balaclava'd blokes and come out alive. As said above no real winners!!
as i said in my post have the right to defend myself so if I had to I would defend myself.
FWIW the best advice is to make LOTS OF NOISE as you get up. Once theyy know you are awake loudly call the police then investigate if you really wish to. I would certainly be protecting my children but I would not be getting the kitchen knife out or chasing them down the street for a bike or anything else I own.
most thiefs will leave if they disturb you as they dont want to get caught.
Re the above stabbing imagine what they would have done if he had resisted.
TeeJ, don't go getting this one closed down either, ok? Otherwise, I'll be round, to throw baklava at you!
Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm baklava
"rubs tummy"
Nahhh ... If 3 people in balaclavas burst into the house and try to harm the family. Shoot them dead (Texan accent). End of.
What's all this shite about philosophising what action to take? Think about that later when harm is over.
It's better them dead than regret for the rest of your life for not defending the family, imagine sexual assault on one member of your family, and even if they are caught later on they would be honeymooning in jail demanding their human rights.
🙄
Re the above stabbing imagine what they would have done if he had resisted.
Stabbed him?
[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-13885457 ]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-13885457[/url]
Assuming it is drug related because there is 4 of then is nonsense. It happens here all the time, they'll just smash their way in through patio doors in broad daylight and get valuables and cars and be gone within minutes. Sure it could well have a drug connection, but not just because there were 4 bally'd up.
As for getting stabbed and dying, if they hadn't tried to break in he'd still be alive, so he got what he deserved as far as I can see. It'll be a tragedy if the homeowners are convicted of a crime.
4 involved tells me they knew what to expect
If they have used reasonable force they won't be as there would be no grounds to prosecute.
Find a single case where someone has been prosecuted for defending themselves and their property.
Re the above stabbing imagine what they would have done if he had resisted.
Stabbed him?
I was thinking more along the lines of killed him in a stabbing frenzy then taken the things anyway.
Loddrick they tried to break in the report does not say they achieved this and the 999 call said they were trying to break in. He may well have been stabbed outside the house , chased down the street, in which case what was the person defending?
possessions are not worth more than lifes
Tony Martin???
My aunts second husband used to be in the met and got to be quite senior in the flying squad back in the day. His advice to me once was if you ever get burgled make sure any weapon you use against an intruder is an every day item (i.e. not a knife but something good and heavy and easy to swing about; I favour a heavy torch) and to ensure that none of the wounds inflicted on the intruder are on their back. Oh, and he also advised killing any intruders as then you can claim it was self defence and they won't be in a position to argue with you in court 😯
To his credit he stood by his advice when burgled a few years ago and had to be restrained by a former colleague as he attempted to beat the guy to death. Funnily enough no charges were ever brought against him...lot of tricky stairs in the police station apparently.
ah nothing like police corruption to make you feel better about this sort of thing
Tony martin shot someone in the back so the self defence claim was not upheld.
Was Big Dave's uncle called Big John?
Do you want the right to use unreasonable force ?
Yes please.
lot of tricky stairs in the police station apparently.
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[/img]
Was Big Dave's uncle called Big John?
I call him 'Sir' at family gatherings and try to avoid looking him in the eye!
I bet the burglars knew the burlarees
Was the burglar from Louisiana?
Was he trying to steal his favourite ornament, the "Cajun Queen"?
I would have to say that if someone was breaking into my property i'd be too scared to do anything but call the police.
wrightyson - MemberTony Martin???
Shot a burgler in the back as he ran away. Not reasonable force.
Shot a burgler in the back as he ran away. Not reasonable force.
not when you take away the fact that he was the victim of a number of burglaries and he had psychological issues that made him slightly paranoid.
Nope - not reasonable force as that is whet the jury decided - that is the definition of reasonable.
I was burgled once. If I had been home at the time and had a knife in my hand they too would have got stabbed.
If they dont go burgling houses then they wont get stabbed while burgling a house. It's pretty simple really.
TandemJeremy - Memberwrightyson - Member
Tony Martin???
Shot a burgler in the back as he ran away. Not reasonable force.
Nahhh ... use bow and arrow instead or a crossbow or booby trap them with bear trap.
TJ has it Tony Martin shot one of them in the back which suggests the guy was running away not attacking.
Drac - ModeratorTJ has it Tony Martin shot one of them in the back which suggests the guy was running away not attacking.
Yes, but the guy (the burglar) is dead. No more. Kaput. Problem solved. No more stress.
We still need to feed Tony Martin if he is jailed for life because that's his human rights.
We still need to feed Tony Martin because that's his rights.
Ay?