[Closed] The gypsy girls on channel 4??!!!

As with most people my views and opinions are formed through a combination of learning and personal experience. My personal experience of travellers had been uniformly negative, and as follows :-

1) As General Manager of a company on a trading estate our fleet of vehicles (locked in a secure pound) was ransacked for spares, including such things as doors, bonnets, wheels and engine components. Coincidentally at the same time a traveller encampment that had been on the estate for a few days disappeared overnight. The police advised that ours was the last of a spate of such things that occurred while they were there.
2) While a member of the parish council in the village where I live a traveller community appeared onto our playing field. This through a mysteriously "open" gate that had been locked and unused for years but somehow lost the chain and padlock, (never to be seen again,) on the night they rolled up. They stayed for 10 days, which strangely was precisely the length of time it took us to organise an eviction process. The ensuing clear up operation for what wes left behind and the legal process to evict cost us £40,000.
3) A "big fat gypsy wedding" took place on land neighbouring a business that I managed (not the same as at 1 above), and do you know what? Even though we locked all our vehicles inside the loading dock it was broken into and £67,000 worth of damage and theft took place. Curiously the travellers left shortly afterwards.
4) A tarmacing organisation employing people with heavy Irish accents appeared uninvited at the same company as at 3) above and proceeeded to spray tar onto the (fully occupied) car park area, damaging numerous cars in the process. When challeneged and requested to practice their craft elsewhere, they demanded £4000 in cash or "We will burn your ****ing place down".
5) A woman purporting to be a Romany traveller, (also with a heavy Irish accent), came into my company asking that we buy some Lucky heather, an offer I considered most carefull before politely refusing. She then stood in reception delivering a tirade of abuse that would even make an Irish Tarmacer blush.

So thank God for the "Big Fat" series of fly on the wall documentaries which has given me an insight into the lives and lifestyles of this much maligned group. Without it I think I would have formed the view that in general they were a lying, thieving, cheating community of rogues living the life of Reilly off my back. I now appreciate that far from that they are in fact a distinct ethnic group with a set of strong moral traditions, which lead them to spend what little they do have on massively expensive religious and family events whilst being of no fixed abode and having no income.

Dont think he has a Gkurkas foreskin, never looked

This quote alone makes this the most epic thread. Ever.

99% of gypsies give the rest a bad name 😀

I did say that they don't do themselves any favours.

The English Travs that I knew had no time at all for the Irish Travs, and wouldn't let them on their site.

Some locals break the law when the Travs are in town, knowing that the Travs will get the blame.

As I say, they really don't do themselves any favours.

BUT, Thelma's initiative may be the start of change and well done to her, I hope it works.

There are no oppressive men in your gorger society that get jealous at the slightest thing.

There are no gorger women that feel trapped in gorger society and can't escape an abusive relationship.

There are no illiterate gorgers in your gorgio world.

There are no small business self employed gorgers cooking their books or taking cash payments to avoid paying tax in your gorger economy.

Gorgers dont abuse other gorgers, steal, leave rubbish anywhere, perpetuate ignorance, act aggressively, fight other gorgers, bend the law to suit their own needs or desires, avoid paying tax or commit the occasional crime.

I'm so glad that your gorger world is so perfect.

The Irish Traveller world or the Romany Gypsy world (note they are two separate worlds) is far from perfect but what society isnt.

Good and bad everywhere.

Mandi jinns miro ratti.

I think on balance I'm quite glad that I live in a culture which isn't so xenophobic that it has a special word to mean "everyone who isn't like us."

Yes but you could always borrow some Greek.

I think on balance I'm quite glad that I live in a culture which isn't so xenophobic that it has a special word to mean "everyone who isn't like us."

100% this ^

😯

No, we have LOTS of words for people who aren't like us - all of which will get me banned from the forum if I type them out in full - but to give some idea, let's see:

N****r
P**i
C**n

Xenophobia? It might be a Greek word, but the British have surely appropriated its sentiment as their own!

Sorry, I'm obviously missing something; which one of those words describes everyone who isn't like us?

"Foreigner"

From personal experience, that's largely a perjorative term.

Cougar - Member
Sorry, I'm obviously missing something; which one of those words describes everyone who isn't like us?

POSTED 13 MINUTES AGO # REPORT-POST

Them

Maybe, it's like the Inuit are supposed to have (insert big number here) words for snow, each describing different kinds of snow, because snow plays such a large part in their lives. This society has all the words listed, any many others for describing the equivalent of gorger.

Why shouldn't they have a word to describe people who are not like them anyway? They are a distinct race, thus everyone else is not of that race, thus there is a word to describe. I don't have a problem with that.

Jewish people have a word for non-Jews.
Gay people have a word for non-gays.
Naturists have a word for non-naturists.
Etc.
Groups of people have words for others who are not in the group.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Travs (of any/all kinds) are saints, but I am saying that they aren't all bad and aren't all as bad as made out.

In any event, if we are so perfect, educated, law-abiding and superior in every way surely it falls to us to take the first steps to integrate our societies?

I know the thread isn't about it anymore, but I watched Thelma's Gypsy Girls last night. I'm not anti-traveller or anything but that Victoria was a right stupid bitch 🙂

There are no oppressive men in your gorger society that get jealous at the slightest thing.

There are no gorger women that feel trapped in gorger society and can't escape an abusive relationship.

There are no illiterate gorgers in your gorgio world.

There are no small business self employed gorgers cooking their books or taking cash payments to avoid paying tax in your gorger economy.

Gorgers dont abuse other gorgers, steal, leave rubbish anywhere, perpetuate ignorance, act aggressively, fight other gorgers, bend the law to suit their own needs or desires, avoid paying tax or commit the occasional crime.

I'm so glad that your gorger world is so perfect.

The Irish Traveller world or the Romany Gypsy world (note they are two separate worlds) is far from perfect but what society isnt.

Good and bad everywhere.

Mandi jinns miro ratti.

amen to that

In any event, if we are so perfect, educated, law-abiding and superior in every way surely it falls to us to take the first steps to integrate our societies?

often those groups have no desire to be 'integrated'

surely it falls to us to take the first steps to integrate our societies?

Yeah because that's just what they want, to be integrated with gorgers 😆

Edit: Snap with MrSmith!!

I'm not saying Travs (of any/all kinds) are saints, but I am saying that they aren't all bad and aren't all as bad as made out.

They're a group of people like any other, and there will be good and bad eggs I'm sure. In that respect, I don't doubt that "travs" (ugh, really?) are any different from, say, cyclists, asians, christians, professional footballers, the unemployed, homosexuals, vegetarians, or middle-aged blonde women from Basildon. Rash generalisations are bad (generally).

if we are so perfect, educated, law-abiding and superior

I'm not sure why there's suddenly a need to defend (or attack) this position when, far as I can see, no-one here has suggested that anyone believes this to be true.

In the rare moments where we were on topic here, the thrust was along the lines of "those people specifically who are on the TV show don't do themselves any favours." I've no idea whether they're representative of travelling communities as a whole (and the danger of course is that a lot of people watching [i]will[/i] think that), but here on STW at least no-one seems to be dull enough to be attacking the demographic as a whole.

"Foreigner"

Not bad. But there's plenty of people who I wouldn't identify as part of my cultural / social demographic but aren't foreign (and conversely, some foreigners who I would).

surely it falls to us to take the first steps to integrate our societies?
Yeah because that's just what they want, to be integrated with gorgers

Edit: Snap with MrSmith!!

Yet in many other countries in Europe,mthe gypsy commnity do want integration, in Romania, Slovakia, Albania, so this is a local effect.

the best thing is to go by your own experience rather than a TV program.
growing up in rural Kent i know a bit about about itinerants.
i can't think of many favorable experiences/interactions but then one persons experience doesn't reflect that of the population in general 🙄

Yet in many other countries in Europe,mthe gypsy commnity do want integration, in Romania, Slovakia, Albania, so this is a local effect.

Maybe the general population of those countries is more to the liking of the gypsies, should we become more like Romania, Slovakia & Albania to encourage the integration then?

Yeah, 'cos that's exactly what i said
🙄

Yeah, 'cos that's exactly what i said

I put a reason forward to your view then asked a a question? Whats wrong with that. Did I say you said anything?

Maybe the general population of those countries is more to the liking of the gypsies, should we become more like Romania, Slovakia & Albania to encourage the integration then?

but you asked a question based on a shaky assumption. Maybe this is because you are stupid, should we all be more like you, to facilitate discussions on this matter?

.

It's a shame. Having said that, they don't (as a group) help themselves.

Oh yes they do - to anything that isn't nailed down 🙂 Gyppos recently [b]used oxyacetalene torches to steal streetsigns and TRAFFIC LIGHTS[/b] from an industrial estate near me.

but you asked a question based on a shaky assumption

Why's it shaky, seems totally logical, they integrate because they feel they fit in.

Maybe this is because you are stupid

I think on balance I'm quite glad that I live in a culture which isn't so xenophobic that it has a special word to mean "everyone who isn't like us."

I love the implied need for tolerance on a forum which shows a remarkable lack of tolerance towards those who choose different lifestyles, and which provides a platform for those with a false sense of superiority, to launch into judgmental rants aimed at those which they clearly view as morally and intellectually inferior 😀

All the builders I know have really nice, massive houses that I could never afford. I assume they do this by either building them themselves or having secret agreements with other tradesmen so they only charge them a reasonable amount and use quality products.

Build your own house out of materials charged to customers / accounted for as business costs = massive house costs peanuts [IMG] [/IMG]

Like I said above, and like Mr Smith has repeated. Favourable interactions with travellers generally seem to be a bit rare for us gorgies or whatever they call us. Truthfully, and with tongue now removed from cheek, the opportuntiy to portray a more positive, less stereotypical image does appear to have largely been ignored by the makers of the recent spate of traveller shows.

There are only two reasonable interpretations of this, which are firstly, the shows are a true reflection and therefore simply reinforce the stereotypes. Secondly, they are simply the producers manipulating the content to achieve ratings regardless of the damage it does. Either way its not particularly edifying in my view so after getting the gist of it, its gone onto the telly off-kindle out listing in my house.

That apart, my general view remains consistent. No problem with anyone leading their way of life to the best of their ability as long as it doesn't screw someone else over to do it. No problem in taking anyone at face value. However, the downside of that is I do object to being screwed over, and having accepted people at face value, if that face is particularly nasty then thats the value that is reciprocated.

the opportuntiy to portray a more positive, less stereotypical image does appear to have largely been ignored by the makers of the recent spate of traveller shows.

I dunno about 'manipulating content' exactly, but the group they're televising won't have been picked arbitrarily. If they'd picked a gentle, clean-living travelling family who spent their lives doing valuable community work in the areas where they'd established camp, how many viewers do you think they'd attract? Would we still be here discussing it?

It's car-crash TV, by design. The 'gypsy' element is practically coincidental, they've just found a group of excessively boisterous people and filmed them playing up for the camera.

You loose any credibility when you start making personal insults.

I wasn't being insulting! I was only suggesting a possible reason for your form of question.

Why's it shaky, seems totally logical, they integrate because they feel they fit in.

No, actually they don't integrate, because the local communities exclude them

It's car-crash TV, by design. The 'gypsy' element is practically coincidental, they've just found a group of excessively boisterous people and filmed them playing up for the camera

No shit? 😯

Gypsy is not a lifestyle is a racial group that came to this country in the 1500s from northern India via the Balkans , Spain and Russia and turkey. Our languaged maintained its Indian base but also loaned words from the respective countries that we passed through. Don't confuse us with Irish travellers who are British (though some have married into Romany). Most Romany are settled while a lot of Irish travellers still roam. Irish travellers speak a different language to us. they are not gypsy. Funny how a few get in a hissy over the gorger word when I've seen gyppo and pikey thrown about with wild abandon for years on here. All I hope is that you are coisistent in your language use. So Jeremy I hope you use words like ****, pakki and yid as you use the word gyppo. Why should we integrate. Some have a lot haven't. Do you tell Brits living in Spain to become Spanish. Assimilate.... ?

If I wanted to move to Spain then presumably I'd be a fan of the life and culture, so I'd make an effort to learn the language and 'fit in'. Why else would I move there?

But then that might just be me, if I go on holiday even I try and learn as something about the language and country; I've never understood people who travel to different countries and then spend two weeks in 'Little England', eating roast beef and Yorkshire puddings washed down with a pint of Boddington's in the local British themed pub.

Should you integrate? If you like. Not if you don't want to. I'm not convinced that any larger dissimilar groups ever truly integrate 100%, unless you count keeping your heads down and staying out of each others' way as integration. It's a lot easier to join into a culture than to merge two disparate ones.

Dunno as I was getting hissy over 'gorger' per se, I'd to look it up as I'd never heard it before. Words are just collections of letters, it's intent that's important, and your usage seemed to scream "us and them" which is why I commented on it. I apologise if I misunderstood there.

Ratswithwings: It was me who said integrate. By that I meant that "our" society (and by that I mean people who are not gypsies) should try to be more tolerant of gypsies, and that gypsies should try to fit in with us a little better. Note I am not saying that the traditions and heritage should disappear, I am however saying that paying tax and not littering would be two good starts. Leaving girls in school to finish their education would be nice too.

As above, these programmes are "car crash tv" and designed to provoke a(negative) reaction but we have all seen previously nice village greens/grassed areas reduced to rubbish dumps and experienced increased crime coincidental with the appearance of caravans. I'm sure there would be less hostility from residents if the grassed areas were left as found. That's not a matter of denying heritage or tradition, and I feel it's a fairly small ask in return for a free stay somewhere.

If we are going to share this small, crowded island we need to find a way to make it work a bit better.

If we are going to share this small, crowded island we need to find a way to make it work a bit better.

Well said

But moving back to the programmes. This is the crux of the matter, they use the word gypsy when virtually all of these people are Irish travellers. Most Irish travellers dont even call themselves Gypsy as they are Pavee. They dont speak Gypsy (Romany), they speak Gammon, Shelta or Cant. If they speak with an Irish accent then they are Pavee - Irish Travellers. Its a bit obvious.

So before you moan about people with caravans leaving litter, perhaps you need to ask if they are Irish travellers or Romany before you make a rash statement about Gyppos.

Reminds me of a refugee in the late 90s here in the UK that had been attacked by some racists and their ignorant name calling 'They called me a pakki' he exclaimed, 'but I'm Afghan!'.

Stop lumping us all in together and using the same old myths about litter and tax avoiding. I know loads of Romany that have bank accounts, pay tax, run successful businesses that have been passed down the generations. There's plenty of Romany millionaires and they done it by the book, legally. Then again I know some that have committed crimes (and been punished), avoided paying tax - just like the rest of society. Most live on their own land and have since they stopped being nomadic but still live in caravans and pay council tax, rates, electricity..... guess what... just like everyone else. And guess what, I know plenty of Romany that are illiterate but still run successful businesses. State education is not for everyone.

Telling Gypsies that they need to do certain things to be seen in a better way is like the Government telling Muslims they need to police their own communities to temper extremism. Well, shouldnt the 'white' British community police its own and root out extreme racism? If one section of society has to do it, why shouldnt the other. How many BNP members and nazi affiliates are in jail for arms caches and bomb making equipment? Quite a few - it just hardly gets reported but the great Muslim threat gets maximum exposure.

@ratswithwings apologies if I offended you, and thanks for the education.

can i have a translation of 'chavvy-kai my boi' please. i know a little bit of the parlance but not always what it means. 🙂

I'm prepared to accept to believe that there will be fundamentally decent and not so decent folks in all communities.

Recent programme up here focused on Scottish travelling families but again different types from different regions. Tbh the ones who travelled with their fair amusements came across as a relatively decent lot, some of the others were illegal camping types. However I felt sad at the level of prejudice that some had to endure.

That said the dirty littering breaking into others property ones who settled in various places round here for a while recently should be moved on. Usual piles of garden waste, rubble and other crap left in previously unspoilt areas. We're these Roma or Pavee? No idea but St George flag was proudly displayed.

Re read and iPad and thick finger does not help how it reads.......