Theresa tells us that the free market economy is "the greatest agent of collective human progress ever created."
The thing is, I think most of what she says is wrong, so statistically this probably is as well. I can think of a few better candidates:
- mains sewers
- antibiotics
- bicycles
Is she right? Am I wrong? What other candidates are there for this award?
Sharp edged cutting tools were a bit of a great leap forward.
Maybe not the greatest agent, but certainly up there. Free markets are brilliant things [i]in the right place[/i] but the difference between her and me is that I think there are areas that should not be subjected to free market principles.
Anyway, more fundamental than that is the invention of money. It allowed people to do things other than farm or hunt all day. Stuff like invent things and study theoretical principles
I don’t think we’ve ever truly had a free market economy, it’s actually a highly restricted and controlled market that exists to keep the ball rolling for another political term.
I’d probably say the Internet, the western world has changed massively in the last 10-15 years, we’ve advanced in a lot of ways in those last few years than we did in the last 200 years.
War
Wheels and domestication of animals
Kendal mint cake
Nuneaton town council
Love the idea that TM is an advocate of free markets!!! If only....
War
Huh?
What is it good for?
Glass would probably be up in the top 5 I reckon.
Antibiotics look like they'll be bit flash in the pan in the long term. It looks like our children will be a generation that will die of illnesses that our grandparents generation were the first to survive.
What is it good for?
advancing technology at a greater rate
advancing technology at a greater rate
Say it again.
HURRR!
[quote=perchypanther ]War
Huh?
What is it good for?
the correct answer is...
absolutely nothing 🙂
Mathematics was a pretty good one too.
Language, both spoken and written.
What other candidates are there for this award?
Agriculture.
the correct answer is...absolutely nothing
Good God now! Say it again. 😉
Language, both spoken and written.
Or even language in terms of 'thought'. Its actually quite difficult to image what you're thoughs would be like without language to articulate them.
Have you noticed how you can't adjust the volume of your internal monologue? You can try and shout or whisper but it always stays the same.
I think there are areas that should not be subjected to free market principles.
She thinks this perfect thing needs to be well regulated so there you have it the best thing we ever did for humanity was red tape.
TBH dark satanic mills is what it gives us and 10 people being as rich a 505 of the world if you cannot think of anything better than this then you have a very limited imagination
NB I am not a socialist in the traditional sense and i care that resources and wealth are fairly distributed I dont much care about the method of ownership and all that marx /capital stuff.
Arguably the biggest agent though is 'education'. Plenty of species are capable of learning but we're the only species to teach. Learn a behaviour, modify and refine it, teach it to someone else.
Empathy?
agriculture and the domestication of livestock. (If we're going for change) Fire, Housing, clothing, tools all important, but as an event that changed our history, I reckon that's probs it.
The greatest agent of making progress ever created?
Surfmatt.
[b]FIRE!!!![/b]
And sausage rolls.
A free market would be great. What we have instead is a rigged corporate oligarchy stuffed with privatised monopolies. I presume that's what May will be singing the praises of
And they say she has no vision? Pfft!
Some may say that the free market has led to loads of other things, many mentioned above.
Interesting to see her busy with some personal "creative destruction"...
we're the only species to teach
I don't disagree with your nomination, but plenty of species have been observed [url= https://www.nwf.org/News-and-Magazines/National-Wildlife/Animals/Archives/2015/Animal-Teaching.aspx ]'teaching' their offspring [/url]beneficial behaviours and strategies for living.
the free market economy is "the greatest agent of collective human progress ever created."
If she truly believes this is true, it makes her approach to our biggest market slightly odd.
Language is the correct answer.
Language is the correct answer.
Guess it depends if it is something specifically thought up or not. Since I would have thought language would go into the latter category.
Writing would be a good candidate though.
I dont know why she couldnt just say "mixed economy" though. I guess that would be an admission that it makes sense for the state to be a lot more involved. Especially in the early research stage where making any profit from an idea is only a distant dream.
Beer.
No, really. Bear with me.
Our early ancestors we largely nomadic, hunter-gatherer types. This meant difficult days, poor survival and no leisure time.
At some stage, natural fermentation was discovered, with the inevitable side effects. However, in learning to control this fermentation our savannah skipping chums would have realised that to produce beer they needed to allow fermentation to take place, rather than stumble across a pre-fermented batch.
This led to groups lingering in one area, while they waited for their brew to ferment, during which time they would have spent time in a local area, rather than roaming as before.
Over time, this has led to the beginnings of settlement, for instance in caves where the brew could be left to ferment. Likewise early agriculture arose from this more fixed lifestyle, which allowed for crops to be tended and maintained. In turn, this led to the establishment of homes, and the time spent travelling could now be used for more cultural pursuits. That started with cave painting, etc and early tools, the control and management of fire, so on and so forth.
The time needed to teach and nurture our children was previously spent hunting or gathering. The time needed to make tools was now available. Fires warmed the caves, cooked our foor and and lit our painting; language developed to express cultural ideas. The notions of society evolved, and so forth.
Without beer - the incentive to linger in one place - we'd still be wandering the plains looking for lunch.
Beer.No, really. Bear with me.
Is it this one?
[img] 
[/img]
I don't disagree with your nomination, but plenty of species have been observed 'teaching' their offspring beneficial behaviours and strategies for living.
depends on your definition of teaching. Within the other great apes you have a sort of money-see-monkey-do. Parents will patiently allow themselves to be observed while they perform a task until their offspring mimic them. But if we teach a chimp sign language chimps don't go on to impart that new skill to their offspring and peers and thats because we've 'taught' them the skill rather than demonstrated sign language in front of them. Chimps have yet to learn how to throw a board rubber for example, or sew leatherette elbow patches on their jackets.
the incentive to linger in one place
[puts chairs on tables]
"Haven't you lot got homes to go to?"
isn't that a koala?
Language is the correct answer.
not for progress though, Homo Habilis probably had lanaguge, lived as H/G for millions of years without getting beyond stone tools.
At some stage, natural fermentation was discovered
Nice theory, but rotting fruit will ferment, and if you need to get out of your head, than there are any number of natural agents that will do that from mushrooms, to hyperventilating while dancing around in a circle, plus of course beer needs wheat...which needs agriculture.
isn't that a koala?
Nope..... Those are just pockets. He's wearing a jacket.
She's obviously not tried a dropper post yet.
You may jest but they're responsible for a fountain in the town centre that presents an enduring challenge to society - filling it with washing up liquid and getting it to overflow with bubbles. A sure sign of human progress.Nuneaton town council
I agree that trade has been invaluable in ensuring that we generate wealth and avoid going to war with neighbours over resources.
However, to simply stand up at a lectern and announce "you've never had it so good" is hardly going to go down well when we live in such a divided society where wealth isn't shared.
I read an interesting article (which I now can't find) that investigated the positive impact that the domestication of dogs had on human progress. A great read and I'll post it up if I can find it.
thought this was going to be the 'hugh heffner has died' thread...
the positive impact that the domestication of dogs had on human progress
Can confirm this is not the case.
Took me ages this morning to get out of the house due to an extremely persistent 9 week old cockapoo puppy attacking my shoelaces.
Progress was negatively impacted.
This man. He revolutionised engineering and transport and we are still using most of what he built, almost 200 years later.
[img] 
[/img]
Oil maybe, without that then not a lot else would have came about.
OP is right, sewers (oh and clean water supplies).
As for capitalism, although I suspect we are all to a greater or lesser extent capitalist in our outlook, a total free market without checks and balances would be/is an utter social disaster.
Also, I only wanted to be a Civil Engineer so I could wear a hat like Isambard's. I was a bit too late.
Surely the Joint-stock company.
Without such entities many technological, medical or scientific inventions marking human progress would not have been possible.
Also, I only wanted to be a Civil Engineer so I could wear a hat like Isambard's. I was a bit too late.
Do it anyway.
If she truly believes this is true, it makes her approach to our biggest market slightly odd.
Not really. The EU 'free market' is not really free it has a tarrif of £350M a week apparently (or whatever number it is this week). WTO tariffs are far cheaper.
The greatest contributor to human progress were the water powered mills that kicked off the industrial revolution. Changed the face of the globe in less than £100 years.
not for progress though, Homo Habilis probably had lanaguge,
Is that a stone tool of some sort?
Free market is a catalyst for change and not the agent of change itself but then we're into semantics. However the self-styled masters of the universe would rather you believe that we have to thank them for all the goodness in the world such that regardless of the odd PR hiccup they can keep doing what they want. Thanks guys - great jooooorrrb.
I don’t think we’ve ever truly had a free market economy
This. My local Tesco doesn't sell dope, despite the obvious demand.
I'm not even sure that the current state of western capitalism was created.
So yes, my vote for the bicycle. Obviously on this forum that isn't going to be popular, so my second choice would be the 320d bought on pcp.
The free market economy at work:
[img] 
[/img]
Natural selection ie - opposable thumbs and empathic thought.
Although judging by the levels of debate of late - those thumbs and brains went on to create [s]Youtube[/s] comment-feeds. Swings and roundabouts 😉
Oil maybe, without that then not a lot else would have came about.
Tell that to the Romans.
Tell that to the Romans
I'm not sure they did much for us.
This bloke - had a great idea, and the more he thought about it, the more he realised it was the greatest idea in the history of the world. It would feed the hungry, heal the sick, cast off the yoke of religious tyranny, and provide a blueprint for humanity to understand the universe and their place within it.
Unlike every other lunatic who thought they had the greatest idea ever, he was actually right.
[img] 
[/img]
What,is that the bloke who invented bacon?
Nah, the plough and the axle are, in fact i'm gobsmacked there isn't a pub called The Plough and Axle.
I suspect more people derive pleasure and practical usefulness from reading glasses than do from the free market economy.
If you told me I had to choose between one of those two, it would be the glasses every time.
And glasses are probably behind working sewerage systems and joint with pneumatic tyres.
So yes, my vote for the bicycle.
Diversified the gene pool and reduced the availability of village idiots immeasurably.
She's clearly forgetting 650b
Beer.No, really. Bear with me.
Our early ancestors we largely nomadic, hunter-gatherer types. This meant difficult days, poor survival and no leisure time.
At some stage, natural fermentation was discovered, with the inevitable side effects. However, in learning to control this fermentation our savannah skipping chums would have realised that to produce beer they needed to allow fermentation to take place, rather than stumble across a pre-fermented batch.
This led to groups lingering in one area, while they waited for their brew to ferment, during which time they would have spent time in a local area, rather than roaming as before.
Over time, this has led to the beginnings of settlement, for instance in caves where the brew could be left to ferment. Likewise early agriculture arose from this more fixed lifestyle, which allowed for crops to be tended and maintained. In turn, this led to the establishment of homes, and the time spent travelling could now be used for more cultural pursuits. That started with cave painting, etc and early tools, the control and management of fire, so on and so forth.
The time needed to teach and nurture our children was previously spent hunting or gathering. The time needed to make tools was now available. Fires warmed the caves, cooked our foor and and lit our painting; language developed to express cultural ideas. The notions of society evolved, and so forth.
Without beer - the incentive to linger in one place - we'd still be wandering the plains looking for lunch.
Best post I've read on here for ages (damning with faint praise, I know)
Best post I've read on here for ages
shame it's made up though, eh? 😆
It's definitely money.
She's clearly forgetting 650b
Nah, she's already moved on to 29 after seeing Minnaar's success.
War
Huh?What is it good for?
The removal of testicularly challenged genocidal dictators is one thing that comes to mind.
Contraception.
a bit of a great leap forward.
ISWYDT
And what have they done since we worked out what to do with oil?molgrips - Member
Oil maybe, without that then not a lot else would have came about.Tell that to the Romans.
Coke and Hookers [/thread]
Antibiotics look like they'll be bit flash in the pan in the long term. It looks like our children will be a generation that will die of illnesses that our grandparents generation were the first to survive.
Because of.....funnily enough....free markets.
The reason why replacements for current antibiotics do not exist, is because the research isn't commercially viable. It needs government funding.
Haber-Bosch process, without it we would not be able to feed a great deal of the world.
Haber-Bosch process, without it we would not be able to feed a great deal of the world.
It's vital for supporting the vast numbers of people that we have, but the other side of that is that it has allowed us to massively overpopulate, so it's a bit bitter sweet that one! 🙂
And what have they done since we worked out what to do with oil?
We're still building on what they worked out, and we still will be when the oil has run out.
But anyway - the answer's money. Without money (of some kind), everyone has to be a farmer or a tradesman. Once you start being able to attach value onto something abstract and have some kind of token that you can exchange for it and then exchange in turn for food and shelter, you can have scientists, researchers, philosophers, artists, writers, historians and all the rest of it. You can invest in ideas which become inventions. You can have armies to protect your cities from barbarians. You can tax people, then use that money to pay other people to build canals, harbours, roads and so on.
Almost everything quoted so far wouldn't have been invented if people had to spend all their time farming or gathering food. Remember the question is the [i]single[/i] greatest invention, and whilst all these things are good, the concept of money underpins it all.
Haber-Bosch process, without it we would not be able to feed a great deal of the world.
It's vital for supporting the vast numbers of people that we have, but the other side of that is that it has allowed us to massively overpopulate, so it's a bit bitter sweet that one!
Indeed those were my thoughts as I was typing it... 🙁
chakaping - MemberNah, she's already moved on to 29 after seeing Minnaar's success.
Oh come on, Theresa May is riding a red white and blue 24 inch wheeled bighit everywhere- it's strong, it's stable, and riding it up hills is the perfect metaphor for her government. It has 1992 Hope cable discs on it.
The only way free markets can be anywhere close to the biggest agent for human progress, is if you consider everything from initial barter economies to be free markets. By the time the concept of a modern free market came along, most of the significant human progress had already happened. It's just goonery.
agriculture
Specifically the cultivation of high energy/carbohydrate rich cereal crops.It changed the course of human history.
Division of labour, printing press, the internet?
Division of labour would get my vote-having some people farm and others fight and others build stuff is why the we are now sat around getting fat rather than picking berries and hoping to catch a rabbit.
Whether thats a good thing only time will tell.
Free markets have had there place but cant work in the future, there will be no work.
The problem with T May and all the tories is they have no vision.
They are looking like history to everyone except the almost dead. Their only ideas are the ones they are given by focus groups, they want power not purpose.
Young people want hope, not tory doom.
Tara from HR.
She has made MASSIVE STRIDES in turning this office supplies company into the AWARD WINNING employer it is today. That's why CEO Lee LeTissier of OFFICE SUPRISE LTD is going to the SOUTH EAST of ENGLAND stationers banquet this year as 3rd speaker
FuzzyWuzzy - Member
War
On my opinion that is the biggest driver over the thousands of years. I don't like that it's the case but regrettably it is.
It predates capitalism, communism and is a human trait that just seems to be in our DNA.