[Closed] The greatest agent of collective human progress ever created?

Also, I only wanted to be a Civil Engineer so I could wear a hat like Isambard's. I was a bit too late.

If she truly believes this is true, it makes her approach to our biggest market slightly odd.

Not really. The EU 'free market' is not really free it has a tarrif of £350M a week apparently (or whatever number it is this week). WTO tariffs are far cheaper.

The greatest contributor to human progress were the water powered mills that kicked off the industrial revolution. Changed the face of the globe in less than £100 years.

not for progress though, Homo Habilis probably had lanaguge,

Is that a stone tool of some sort?

Free market is a catalyst for change and not the agent of change itself but then we're into semantics. However the self-styled masters of the universe would rather you believe that we have to thank them for all the goodness in the world such that regardless of the odd PR hiccup they can keep doing what they want. Thanks guys - great jooooorrrb.

I don’t think we’ve ever truly had a free market economy

This. My local Tesco doesn't sell dope, despite the obvious demand.

I'm not even sure that the current state of western capitalism was created.

So yes, my vote for the bicycle. Obviously on this forum that isn't going to be popular, so my second choice would be the 320d bought on pcp.

The free market economy at work:

[img] [/img]

Natural selection ie - opposable thumbs and empathic thought.

Although judging by the levels of debate of late - those thumbs and brains went on to create [s]Youtube[/s] comment-feeds. Swings and roundabouts 😉

Oil maybe, without that then not a lot else would have came about.

Tell that to the Romans.

Tell that to the Romans

This bloke - had a great idea, and the more he thought about it, the more he realised it was the greatest idea in the history of the world. It would feed the hungry, heal the sick, cast off the yoke of religious tyranny, and provide a blueprint for humanity to understand the universe and their place within it.
Unlike every other lunatic who thought they had the greatest idea ever, he was actually right.

[img] [/img]

What,is that the bloke who invented bacon?

Nah, the plough and the axle are, in fact i'm gobsmacked there isn't a pub called The Plough and Axle.

I suspect more people derive pleasure and practical usefulness from reading glasses than do from the free market economy.

If you told me I had to choose between one of those two, it would be the glasses every time.

And glasses are probably behind working sewerage systems and joint with pneumatic tyres.

So yes, my vote for the bicycle.

Diversified the gene pool and reduced the availability of village idiots immeasurably.

She's clearly forgetting 650b

Beer.

No, really. Bear with me.

Our early ancestors we largely nomadic, hunter-gatherer types. This meant difficult days, poor survival and no leisure time.

At some stage, natural fermentation was discovered, with the inevitable side effects. However, in learning to control this fermentation our savannah skipping chums would have realised that to produce beer they needed to allow fermentation to take place, rather than stumble across a pre-fermented batch.

This led to groups lingering in one area, while they waited for their brew to ferment, during which time they would have spent time in a local area, rather than roaming as before.

Over time, this has led to the beginnings of settlement, for instance in caves where the brew could be left to ferment. Likewise early agriculture arose from this more fixed lifestyle, which allowed for crops to be tended and maintained. In turn, this led to the establishment of homes, and the time spent travelling could now be used for more cultural pursuits. That started with cave painting, etc and early tools, the control and management of fire, so on and so forth.

The time needed to teach and nurture our children was previously spent hunting or gathering. The time needed to make tools was now available. Fires warmed the caves, cooked our foor and and lit our painting; language developed to express cultural ideas. The notions of society evolved, and so forth.

Without beer - the incentive to linger in one place - we'd still be wandering the plains looking for lunch.

Best post I've read on here for ages (damning with faint praise, I know)

Best post I've read on here for ages

shame it's made up though, eh? 😆

It's definitely money.

She's clearly forgetting 650b

Nah, she's already moved on to 29 after seeing Minnaar's success.

War
Huh?

What is it good for?

The removal of testicularly challenged genocidal dictators is one thing that comes to mind.

Contraception.

a bit of a great leap forward.

ISWYDT

molgrips - Member

Oil maybe, without that then not a lot else would have came about.

Tell that to the Romans.

Coke and Hookers [/thread]

Antibiotics look like they'll be bit flash in the pan in the long term. It looks like our children will be a generation that will die of illnesses that our grandparents generation were the first to survive.

Because of.....funnily enough....free markets.

The reason why replacements for current antibiotics do not exist, is because the research isn't commercially viable. It needs government funding.

Haber-Bosch process, without it we would not be able to feed a great deal of the world.

Haber-Bosch process, without it we would not be able to feed a great deal of the world.

It's vital for supporting the vast numbers of people that we have, but the other side of that is that it has allowed us to massively overpopulate, so it's a bit bitter sweet that one! 🙂

And what have they done since we worked out what to do with oil?

We're still building on what they worked out, and we still will be when the oil has run out.

But anyway - the answer's money. Without money (of some kind), everyone has to be a farmer or a tradesman. Once you start being able to attach value onto something abstract and have some kind of token that you can exchange for it and then exchange in turn for food and shelter, you can have scientists, researchers, philosophers, artists, writers, historians and all the rest of it. You can invest in ideas which become inventions. You can have armies to protect your cities from barbarians. You can tax people, then use that money to pay other people to build canals, harbours, roads and so on.

Almost everything quoted so far wouldn't have been invented if people had to spend all their time farming or gathering food. Remember the question is the [i]single[/i] greatest invention, and whilst all these things are good, the concept of money underpins it all.

Haber-Bosch process, without it we would not be able to feed a great deal of the world.
It's vital for supporting the vast numbers of people that we have, but the other side of that is that it has allowed us to massively overpopulate, so it's a bit bitter sweet that one!

Indeed those were my thoughts as I was typing it... 🙁

chakaping - Member

Nah, she's already moved on to 29 after seeing Minnaar's success.

Oh come on, Theresa May is riding a red white and blue 24 inch wheeled bighit everywhere- it's strong, it's stable, and riding it up hills is the perfect metaphor for her government. It has 1992 Hope cable discs on it.

The only way free markets can be anywhere close to the biggest agent for human progress, is if you consider everything from initial barter economies to be free markets. By the time the concept of a modern free market came along, most of the significant human progress had already happened. It's just goonery.

agriculture

Division of labour, printing press, the internet?

Division of labour would get my vote-having some people farm and others fight and others build stuff is why the we are now sat around getting fat rather than picking berries and hoping to catch a rabbit.

Whether thats a good thing only time will tell.

Free markets have had there place but cant work in the future, there will be no work.

The problem with T May and all the tories is they have no vision.
They are looking like history to everyone except the almost dead. Their only ideas are the ones they are given by focus groups, they want power not purpose.

Young people want hope, not tory doom.

Tara from HR.

She has made MASSIVE STRIDES in turning this office supplies company into the AWARD WINNING employer it is today. That's why CEO Lee LeTissier of OFFICE SUPRISE LTD is going to the SOUTH EAST of ENGLAND stationers banquet this year as 3rd speaker

FuzzyWuzzy - Member
War

On my opinion that is the biggest driver over the thousands of years. I don't like that it's the case but regrettably it is.

It predates capitalism, communism and is a human trait that just seems to be in our DNA.

NW - do you have any examples of a free market anywhere ? It would be interesting to see a country that works under such a system and what type of government supports it.

Where I live is a million miles away from a free market economy as are its leaders. The latest one is all for plenty of intervention and meddling.

Division of labour would get my vote-having some people farm and others fight and others build stuff is why the we are now sat around getting fat rather than picking berries and hoping to catch a rabbit.

But I think you need money for this to work?

molgrips - Member

But I think you need money for this to work?

Nope, [i]insects[/i] do division of labour- you can do it cooperatively, by barter or exchange of service, it's almost certain that humans did it before any form of monetary exchange. But if you want to exploit it, you need money.

Nope, insects do division of labour- you can do it cooperatively, by barter or exchange of service

This only works ona small scale though. Of course you can trade your cabbages for your neighbour's carrots in a small village. But most villagers would not be prepared to pay Plato to teach Philosophy in food. Money enables effective taxation. It also doesn't perish and is easily transportable. This means you can have banks and savings and investment and things.

Thinking about it, this is a trick question: there is no such thing as free trade.

I think THM may already have said this, likely several times. But take for example the fiasco with Bombardier and Boeing. There are government subsidies flying around, politicians exerting influence to get jobs in their corner of the world, whatever tariffs we have on aircraft, and who knows what.

So when TM says that Free Trade is "the greatest agent of blah blah blah" she's spouting sanctimonious nonsense.

There is no free trade, there never has been and never will be.

So that means that back to the original question, the answer likely is actually the bicycle. Unless insects have bicycles of course. Or perhaps fire. Or something.

Did any pone say 'art'

Making marks records more than just language. From early petroglyphs and hieroglyphs to modern masterpieces. From illustrations in medical manuals to iconography. Art in all forms is, I argue, the medium where we find all of our humanity spoken more profoundly and completely than any other way. More than words can say.

But this is silly, there is no one 'agent' to rule the roost. There are many.