Forum menu
[quote=tjagain ]So under Barnett that means extra money for Scotland and wales - IIRC 5 billion for Scotland, 2 billion for wales.
Hang on - what about England? We must be due about 50 billion then - almost enough to make the NHS work properly.
aracer - Member
tjagain » So under Barnett that means extra money for Scotland and wales - IIRC 5 billion for Scotland, 2 billion for wales.
Hang on - what about England? We must be due about 50 billion then - almost enough to make the NHS work properly.
I absolutely agree. Youse should be up in arms about it.
£1bn in investment for the whole of NI whether the MPs / constituencies are DUP or not
Binners this agreement will last beyond 2018. There will be very few if any opportunities to force a confidence vote. The DUP are going to do all they can to keep Corbyn / McDonnell away from the chance of a GE and the Tories aren't going to rock the boat
Technically they don't actually have a functioning government at the moment, so it's really a moot point Jammers, dear boy.
As well as being somewhat ironic. Propping a minority UK government up, having had your own regional government suspended due to your own corruption and incompetence
You really couldn't make it up
jambalaya - Member
£1bn in investment for the whole of NI whether the MPs / constituencies are DUP or not
Yes when dealing with someone with the probity & integrity of Arlene Foster and gang you can guarantee that the money will be [url= https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renewable_Heat_Incentive_scandal ]awarded in a fair[/url] & [url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-39075502 ]transparent manne[/url]r
🙄
Also didnt you clearly state on a previous thread that the DUP would do the deal for no cash at all ?
There will be very few if any opportunities to force a confidence vote. The DUP are going to do all they can to keep Corbyn / McDonnell away from the chance of a GE and the Tories aren't going to rock the boat
Well, there's democracy, as seen from a disconnected and increasingly unrepresentative and illegitimate Westminster Parliament, and then there's this....
[img] 
[/img]
How's the mood feeling in this country at the moment, particularly Northern Ireland, in light of this whole shambolic, and rapidly deteriorating farce?
Events, dear boy. Events....
She supported the "rape clause questionnaire"
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-39652791
Seems reasonable to me. Why should people who have an extra child through a rape not receive a tax credit for the extra child? If you accept that premise, then it's quite right that the tax office aren't directly involved in the detail of something so sensitive.
What process would you adopt?
Davidson looked very uncomfortable supporting the rape clause. I am pretty sure she had been told by London to stop making separate policy for Scotland.
I understand why they did this but they got it spectacularly wrong.
Jamba - the DUP have already said they will be back for more after 2 years.
Outofbreath - have you any idea how cruel and upsetting it would be to have to prove via an 8 page form you have been raped? Evidence of a conviction is not enough. You have to sit down with a stranger and fill out a very intrusive 8 page questionnaire.
Aracer - correct. 1 billion for NI mens 50 billion for England under barnett
tjagain - Member
Jamba - the DUP have already said they will be back for more after 2 years.
They'll be back for more when the government wants something through that isn't in the deal.
Jamba - the DUP have already said they will be back for more after 2 years.
Blackmailers, having been paid once, generally do
Outofbreath - have you any idea how cruel and upsetting it would be to have to prove via an 8 page form you have been raped? Evidence of a conviction is not enough. You have to sit down with a stranger and fill out a very intrusive 8 page questionnaire.
I understand why they did this but they got it spectacularly wrong.
No need for a conviction. Can you just clearly state how it *should* be administered.
Binners this agreement will last beyond 2018.
I give your prediction the same weight as your prediction that the Tories would have a 150 seat majority.
Seems reasonable to me.
You'll just have to imagine my surprise.
£1bn in investment for the whole of NI whether the MPs / constituencies are DUP or not
That's the one silver lining. This really exposes Sinn Fein as a waste of space. The guys who actually take their seats get £800 each for everyone in Ireland.
Mind you I don't think it will cost SF seats - I get the feeling there aren't many floating voters in NI.
Binners this agreement will last beyond 2018.
jambafacts to the fore!
http://www.politics.co.uk/comment-analysis/2017/06/26/the-dup-will-be-back-for-more
That's the one silver lining. This really exposes Sinn Fein as a waste of space
hardly good news for the GFA or restoring powersharing at Stormont
outofbreath - Member
£1bn in investment for the whole of NI whether the MPs / constituencies are DUP or not
That's the one silver lining. This really exposes Sinn Fein as a waste of space
Sinn Fein a waste of space in the context of the UK parliament, who'd have thunk it! 😆
If people are expecting them to get up in arms about extra money going to NI, I think youse are living in a different planet.
Jammers dear boy. Shall we put our money where our gobs are again? We know how it went last time 🙂
[img] 
[/img]
I'll happily do 20 quid with you. Lets have a tenner each on 2 scenarios
1) There's a General Election before the end of the year. This is a banker. This cobbled together contradictory shambles won't last 5 minutes, for the reasons I've already listed
In the unlikely event that it does, I'll also bring in
2) There will be riots on the streets of at least one Major UK city before next summer.
We up for that?
hardly good news for the GFA or restoring powersharing at Stormont
Pretty much bad news all round, in an ideal world you wouldn't want want hung parliaments[1] and you especially wouldn't want the UDP (or Sinn Fein) holding the balance of power.
..but that's where we are, and we're gonna have to suck it up, at least until the Autumn, unless someone has a better idea.
[1] At least where no acceptable coalition of mainstream parties can be arranged.
Sinn Fein a waste of space in the context of the UK parliament
Waste of space in the context of getting enough influence to get £800 each for the people of Ireland.
expecting them to get up in arms
Interesting choice of words....
outofbreath - Member
Seems reasonable to me. Why should people who have an extra child through a rape not receive a tax credit for the extra child? If you accept that premise, then it's quite right that the tax office aren't directly involved in the detail of something so sensitive.What process would you adopt?
Start by not punishing the 'extra' child for for someone else's actions.
The whole point of that money is to help provide for the child. The punishment of removing the money on the basis that mother has had too many children ultimately hurts the child. Properly nurtured and cared for children are the best investment this country can make in its future.
If the govt wants to restrict the number of births then use an education programme.
you do understand their whole raison d'etre? 😆outofbreath - Member
Sinn Fein a waste of space in the context of the UK parliament
Waste of space in the context of getting enough influence to get £800 each for the people of Ireland.
😆CaptainFlashheart - Member
expecting them to get up in arms
Interesting choice of words....
[quote=binners ]I'll happily do 20 quid with you. Lets have a tenner each on 2 scenarios
1) There's a General Election before the end of the year. This is a banker. This cobbled together contradictory shambles won't last 5 minutes, for the reasons I've already listed
I'll take you up on that (assuming we're doing evens). Not because I think you're wrong, but because I like free money and I'll lay it off at the bookies at 3/1 😉
[quote=outofbreath ]Waste of space in the context of getting enough influence to get £800 each for the people of Ireland.
The interesting question though is whether those DUP votes would still be worth £100 million each if the target for a majority was 326. Sure they'd have 327 combined, but that's squeakily close to getting defeated on any given vote any time a couple of MPs were otherwise unavailable.
I'm tempted to think that the only reason such a deal has been done and that money is going to NI is Sinn Fein's stance on taking seats at Westminster.
v good point aracer
wot epicyclo said
Am I the only one who thinks Ruth Davidson is an opportunist gobshite rather than the shining light of centrist politics in the UK?
They got 2nd place in Scotland by default as Labour are still pretty much a shambles up here.
rich - bit of both depending on your point of view.
She sounds like she means what she says and until told off by London is consistent in what she says. Played a blinder in the GE collecting the unionist vote around her.
She is on the left of the tory party but is hardly a social democrat. Very keen on human rights.
But - not adverse to playing a negative card now and then and making up/ exaggerating stuff about the SNP to hammer home a point and blames SNP for things they have little or no control over.
I think a few generations ago she would have been a real nonentity in politics but given how ruddy awful our current crop are she appears to be a political giant. an easy trick when you are a normal person surrounded by dwarfs
richmtb - Member
Am I the only one who thinks Ruth Davidson is an opportunist gobshite
nope!
She is on the left of the tory party but is hardly a social democrat. Very keen on human rights.
Not too keen on the needs of rape victims though...
richmtb - Member
Am I the only one who thinks Ruth Davidson is an opportunist gobshite rather than the shining light of centrist politics in the UK?...
She's a posturing figurehead, just an empty shell and will bend whichever way Westminster's wind is blowing while pretending that's what she was going to do anyway, and amnesiac to what she said yesterday.
Probably good crack round the dinner table though.
Ruth has a history of u turns on things. Brexit for a start.
She's a posturing figurehead, just an empty shell and will bend whichever way Westminster's wind is blowing while pretending that's what she was going to do anyway, and amnesiac to what she said yesterday.
Yeah whatever happened to "be a signpost not a weather vane"
She's in the right place at the right time. A good proportion of Scotland (and about 90% of its media) would still hate "Wee Nippy" if she walked on water while shitting gold bricks. So to make a bit of political headway she just has to capture the "SNPBAD" vote by looking a bit more competent than Labour and the LibDem's and that's no great challenge north of the border at the moment.
The fact she looks like potential leadership materials for the Tories as a whole show just how bereft of talent they are and how much of a poison chalice potential players realise governing at this time is.
Intersting aside. The Irish Minister for Foreign Affairs Simon Coveney has said Eire will veto any brexit deal unless the terms of the good friday agreement are upheld completely. That rather throws a spanner in the works of the DUP deal
Excuse the source but there is a wee video clip of him saying this. He does not say exactly what the headline says. He doesn't mention the DUP deal directly
https://skwawkbox.org/2017/06/22/breaking-ireland-will-block-brexit-deal-if-maydup-deal-goes-ahead/
That rather throws a spanner in the works of the DUP deal
Text of DUP deal is published [url= https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/conservative-and-dup-agreement-and-uk-government-financial-support-for-northern-ireland/agreement-between-the-conservative-and-unionist-party-and-the-democratic-unionist-party-on-support-for-the-government-in-parliament ]online[/url]
[i]
...Both parties will adhere fully to their respective commitments set out in the Belfast Agreement and its successors. The Conservative Party reiterates its steadfast support for the Belfast Agreement and its successors and, as the UK government, will continue to govern in the interests of all part of the community in Northern Ireland. The UK government will continue to support close co-operation with the Irish government, and work with them in accordance with the Belfast Agreement and subsequent agreements, while recognising that ultimate responsibility for political stability in Northern Ireland rests with the UK government...
...The DUP will have no involvement in the UK government’s role in political talks in Northern Ireland. It will continue to participate as a party entitled to form part of an Executive following the last Assembly election, as the other parties do.[/i]
So they say Ninfan - however the reality is different. Its a real threat from the Irish and there is also a court case ongoing. the UK government have a duty under the GFA to be impartial. How can they favour the DUP like this without breaching that duty.
How much of this extra money will go to areas with SF mps? What other demands are they going to cave into - marching season is upon us and voices in the unionist movement are already calling for previous banned provocative marches to go ahead.
Its another nail in the coffin of the DUP stitchup
So they say Ninfan - [u]however the reality is different[/u].
Given that the ink is barely even dry on the agreement, would you care to present any evidence that either the DUP or the UK Govt are breaching this undertaking of failing to fulfil their obligations under the GFA then TJ.
You can make accusations - however to claim that "the reality is different" so soon sounds like hyperbole, the exact sort of hyperbole that the [i]usual suspects[/i] start to come out with whenever they don't like the outcome of the democratic process.
well that is that then the tories need them to be the Uk government but they wont take that into account in NI and will be going hard after them for the ashgate issue.
That is me convinced then -
TBH this is not even a political point it is just obvious that they have far more influence and it has changed things. It is just what it is irrespective of the parties involved.
lets not forget the cause of all this
The UUP, which has 16 seats in the Northern Ireland assembly compared with the 38 held by Foster’s Democratic Unionist party (DUP), has joined a cross-party effort to seek the first minister’s resignation over the fuel subsidy scheme.A motion of no confidence in her leadership is being debated on Monday. It was tabled by the nationalist Social Democratic and Labour party (SDLP), with support from the UUP, Alliance party, Green party, Traditional Unionist Voice and People Before Profit Alliance.
Martin McGuinness, the deputy first minister, has called on Foster to step aside amid an investigation into the scheme, which offered financial incentives to farms, businesses and other non-domestic consumers to use biomass boilers that mostly burned wood pellets, as well as solar thermal and heat pumps.
I look forward to the Tory govt impartially deciding on this
To be fair I think a lot of politicians would have done as she has done and cling to power but lets not pretend it has not given the DUP more influence than if they were not needed by the government to pass legislation.
I realise you could just as I realise you dont really believe it
I think a lot of the hysteria needs to chill out on the DUP, no need to speculate, let events run their natural course.
Ninfan - Member
You can make accusations - however to claim that "the reality is different" so soon sounds like hyperbole, the exact sort of hyperbole that the usual suspects start to come out with whenever they don't like the outcome of the democratic process.
Fair point...but for it to work, not only must justice be done, it must also be [b]seen[/b] to be done. Otherwise there can be no trust in the outcome.