[Closed] The going rate for an MP's vote is now £100 million

Davisdson is far to smart to take the westminster leadership now.

If she thought the future of the Tory party depended on her stepping up to the mark she might.

Would she remain true to herself or is there some dark force that bends you to the "Tory way"?

She'd have the same budget constraints as any other PM and she'd have to make a shed load of unpopular decisions just like any other PM.

If Davidson is as principled as some here would believe, looking out for ordinary people instead of screwing them over, then what makes you think any of the big main tory donaters are going to back and fund her?

Oh don't get me wrong. She is a tory thru and thru. However she is the sort of Tory we don't see much anymore. A "one nation" or "wet"

She'd have the same budget constraints as any other PM

Unless she needs to buy some votes, in which case a magic money tree will be found.

If Davidson is as principled as some here would believe, looking out for ordinary people instead of screwing them over, then what makes you think any of the big main tory donaters are going to back and fund her?

The NI bribe, doesn't help Davidson though, she's meekly accepted that there should be no extra cash for Scotland via Barnett.

Looks very much like the Scottish Tories have less power to help Scotland than the DUP bigots who were able to get a cool 1bn, to stash in the bank with all that green energy scheme cash & mysterious (russian?) donations for Brexshit adverts.

On the plus side, Scottish Labour seem to have suddenly remembered that they're supposed to be against the Tories not with them, that's good. Bit late.

Why is this thread about Theresa May's bribe using the magic money tree all about Ruth Davidson's integrity? Is it just that Edinburgh's the closest possible place to London that's worth even looking for a Tory with integrity?

just when you think 'how can they get any more shambolic?' they make a strong lurch to the stupid.

and the arguments for seem to be only 'yeah, but it's what labour would do'

the strong and stable leader has proven to be weak and reactionary.

I think it's just interesting to point out that with this bribe May is able to tarnish the one half decent looking Tory MP!

However, the Tories currently have no obvious vote winner to take over from May. Davidson *is* a vote winner. So Davidson is a shoe in for Tory leader within this parliament, *except* that she'd need to be parachuted into a safe seat and it would be a bit odd if she took a non-Scottish seat.

If the Tories can overcome that technical problem, Davidson could have a vast amount of power within the Party in a very short period of time.

Yip, that's the conumndrum for her. If she abandoms holyrood it'll just look like a careerist move, which I doubt will play well in scotland.

just when you think 'how can they get any more shambolic?' they make a strong lurch to the stupid.

Indeed

So she's the leader* of a party with no majority.

There is only one issue in this parliament... Brexit. The Queens Speech made that pretty clear.

So over half of that parliamentary party was pro-remain and remains pro-Europe on account of not being complete idiots. The other lot are a bunch of foaming-at-the-mouth, reactionary right-wing nutjobs. Both of these sides despise each other, but have managed to hold an uneasy truce during what to be proved an utter disaster of a campaign. So to make thing more 'strong and stable, what to do........?

Hmmmmmmm

I know..... let's bring in a bunch to prop us up, who are so mental that they make our existing lot of foaming-at-the-mouth, reactionary right-wing nutjobs look like a socialist book club.

The chances of these lot not declaring war on each other, and setting about each other like rats in a sack, as the Brexit negotiations inevitably collapse into a total shambles?

Nil!

My bet on there being a general election before the year's out is looking safer by the day

IMHO opinion she's expanded all this time, money and effort to cobble together a 'coalition' that won't struggle on into 2018. Yet more proof, if any more were needed, that she's completely out of her depth, and generally absolutely effing useless

* The word is used figuratively in this instance, and no actual leadership skills are implied

[quote=tjagain ]So under Barnett that means extra money for Scotland and wales - IIRC 5 billion for Scotland, 2 billion for wales.

Hang on - what about England? We must be due about 50 billion then - almost enough to make the NHS work properly.

aracer - Member
tjagain » So under Barnett that means extra money for Scotland and wales - IIRC 5 billion for Scotland, 2 billion for wales.
Hang on - what about England? We must be due about 50 billion then - almost enough to make the NHS work properly.

I absolutely agree. Youse should be up in arms about it.

£1bn in investment for the whole of NI whether the MPs / constituencies are DUP or not

Binners this agreement will last beyond 2018. There will be very few if any opportunities to force a confidence vote. The DUP are going to do all they can to keep Corbyn / McDonnell away from the chance of a GE and the Tories aren't going to rock the boat

Technically they don't actually have a functioning government at the moment, so it's really a moot point Jammers, dear boy.

As well as being somewhat ironic. Propping a minority UK government up, having had your own regional government suspended due to your own corruption and incompetence

You really couldn't make it up

jambalaya - Member
£1bn in investment for the whole of NI whether the MPs / constituencies are DUP or not

Yes when dealing with someone with the probity & integrity of Arlene Foster and gang you can guarantee that the money will be [url= https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renewable_Heat_Incentive_scandal ]awarded in a fair[/url] & [url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-39075502 ]transparent manne[/url]r
🙄

Also didnt you clearly state on a previous thread that the DUP would do the deal for no cash at all ?

There will be very few if any opportunities to force a confidence vote. The DUP are going to do all they can to keep Corbyn / McDonnell away from the chance of a GE and the Tories aren't going to rock the boat

Well, there's democracy, as seen from a disconnected and increasingly unrepresentative and illegitimate Westminster Parliament, and then there's this....

[img] [/img]

How's the mood feeling in this country at the moment, particularly Northern Ireland, in light of this whole shambolic, and rapidly deteriorating farce?

Events, dear boy. Events....

She supported the "rape clause questionnaire"

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-39652791

Seems reasonable to me. Why should people who have an extra child through a rape not receive a tax credit for the extra child? If you accept that premise, then it's quite right that the tax office aren't directly involved in the detail of something so sensitive.

What process would you adopt?

Davidson looked very uncomfortable supporting the rape clause. I am pretty sure she had been told by London to stop making separate policy for Scotland.

I understand why they did this but they got it spectacularly wrong.

Jamba - the DUP have already said they will be back for more after 2 years.

Outofbreath - have you any idea how cruel and upsetting it would be to have to prove via an 8 page form you have been raped? Evidence of a conviction is not enough. You have to sit down with a stranger and fill out a very intrusive 8 page questionnaire.

Aracer - correct. 1 billion for NI mens 50 billion for England under barnett

tjagain - Member
Jamba - the DUP have already said they will be back for more after 2 years.

They'll be back for more when the government wants something through that isn't in the deal.

Jamba - the DUP have already said they will be back for more after 2 years.

Blackmailers, having been paid once, generally do

Outofbreath - have you any idea how cruel and upsetting it would be to have to prove via an 8 page form you have been raped? Evidence of a conviction is not enough. You have to sit down with a stranger and fill out a very intrusive 8 page questionnaire.

I understand why they did this but they got it spectacularly wrong.

No need for a conviction. Can you just clearly state how it *should* be administered.

Binners this agreement will last beyond 2018.

I give your prediction the same weight as your prediction that the Tories would have a 150 seat majority.

Seems reasonable to me.

£1bn in investment for the whole of NI whether the MPs / constituencies are DUP or not

That's the one silver lining. This really exposes Sinn Fein as a waste of space. The guys who actually take their seats get £800 each for everyone in Ireland.

Mind you I don't think it will cost SF seats - I get the feeling there aren't many floating voters in NI.

Binners this agreement will last beyond 2018.

jambafacts to the fore!

http://www.politics.co.uk/comment-analysis/2017/06/26/the-dup-will-be-back-for-more

That's the one silver lining. This really exposes Sinn Fein as a waste of space

hardly good news for the GFA or restoring powersharing at Stormont

outofbreath - Member
£1bn in investment for the whole of NI whether the MPs / constituencies are DUP or not
That's the one silver lining. This really exposes Sinn Fein as a waste of space

Sinn Fein a waste of space in the context of the UK parliament, who'd have thunk it! 😆

If people are expecting them to get up in arms about extra money going to NI, I think youse are living in a different planet.

Jammers dear boy. Shall we put our money where our gobs are again? We know how it went last time 🙂

[img] [/img]

I'll happily do 20 quid with you. Lets have a tenner each on 2 scenarios

1) There's a General Election before the end of the year. This is a banker. This cobbled together contradictory shambles won't last 5 minutes, for the reasons I've already listed

In the unlikely event that it does, I'll also bring in

2) There will be riots on the streets of at least one Major UK city before next summer.

We up for that?

hardly good news for the GFA or restoring powersharing at Stormont

Pretty much bad news all round, in an ideal world you wouldn't want want hung parliaments[1] and you especially wouldn't want the UDP (or Sinn Fein) holding the balance of power.

..but that's where we are, and we're gonna have to suck it up, at least until the Autumn, unless someone has a better idea.

[1] At least where no acceptable coalition of mainstream parties can be arranged.

Sinn Fein a waste of space in the context of the UK parliament

Waste of space in the context of getting enough influence to get £800 each for the people of Ireland.

https://politicalscrapbook.net/2017/06/the-20-best-cartoons-on-the-maydup-deal/

expecting them to get up in arms

Interesting choice of words....

outofbreath - Member
Seems reasonable to me. Why should people who have an extra child through a rape not receive a tax credit for the extra child? If you accept that premise, then it's quite right that the tax office aren't directly involved in the detail of something so sensitive.

What process would you adopt?

Start by not punishing the 'extra' child for for someone else's actions.

The whole point of that money is to help provide for the child. The punishment of removing the money on the basis that mother has had too many children ultimately hurts the child. Properly nurtured and cared for children are the best investment this country can make in its future.

If the govt wants to restrict the number of births then use an education programme.

outofbreath - Member
Sinn Fein a waste of space in the context of the UK parliament
Waste of space in the context of getting enough influence to get £800 each for the people of Ireland.

CaptainFlashheart - Member
expecting them to get up in arms
Interesting choice of words....

[quote=binners ]I'll happily do 20 quid with you. Lets have a tenner each on 2 scenarios
1) There's a General Election before the end of the year. This is a banker. This cobbled together contradictory shambles won't last 5 minutes, for the reasons I've already listed

I'll take you up on that (assuming we're doing evens). Not because I think you're wrong, but because I like free money and I'll lay it off at the bookies at 3/1 😉

[quote=outofbreath ]Waste of space in the context of getting enough influence to get £800 each for the people of Ireland.

The interesting question though is whether those DUP votes would still be worth £100 million each if the target for a majority was 326. Sure they'd have 327 combined, but that's squeakily close to getting defeated on any given vote any time a couple of MPs were otherwise unavailable.

I'm tempted to think that the only reason such a deal has been done and that money is going to NI is Sinn Fein's stance on taking seats at Westminster.

v good point aracer

wot epicyclo said

Am I the only one who thinks Ruth Davidson is an opportunist gobshite rather than the shining light of centrist politics in the UK?

They got 2nd place in Scotland by default as Labour are still pretty much a shambles up here.

rich - bit of both depending on your point of view.

She sounds like she means what she says and until told off by London is consistent in what she says. Played a blinder in the GE collecting the unionist vote around her.

She is on the left of the tory party but is hardly a social democrat. Very keen on human rights.

But - not adverse to playing a negative card now and then and making up/ exaggerating stuff about the SNP to hammer home a point and blames SNP for things they have little or no control over.

I think a few generations ago she would have been a real nonentity in politics but given how ruddy awful our current crop are she appears to be a political giant. an easy trick when you are a normal person surrounded by dwarfs

richmtb - Member
Am I the only one who thinks Ruth Davidson is an opportunist gobshite

nope!

She is on the left of the tory party but is hardly a social democrat. Very keen on human rights.

Not too keen on the needs of rape victims though...

richmtb - Member
Am I the only one who thinks Ruth Davidson is an opportunist gobshite rather than the shining light of centrist politics in the UK?...

She's a posturing figurehead, just an empty shell and will bend whichever way Westminster's wind is blowing while pretending that's what she was going to do anyway, and amnesiac to what she said yesterday.

Probably good crack round the dinner table though.

Ruth has a history of u turns on things. Brexit for a start.

She's a posturing figurehead, just an empty shell and will bend whichever way Westminster's wind is blowing while pretending that's what she was going to do anyway, and amnesiac to what she said yesterday.

Yeah whatever happened to "be a signpost not a weather vane"

She's in the right place at the right time. A good proportion of Scotland (and about 90% of its media) would still hate "Wee Nippy" if she walked on water while shitting gold bricks. So to make a bit of political headway she just has to capture the "SNPBAD" vote by looking a bit more competent than Labour and the LibDem's and that's no great challenge north of the border at the moment.

The fact she looks like potential leadership materials for the Tories as a whole show just how bereft of talent they are and how much of a poison chalice potential players realise governing at this time is.

Intersting aside. The Irish Minister for Foreign Affairs Simon Coveney has said Eire will veto any brexit deal unless the terms of the good friday agreement are upheld completely. That rather throws a spanner in the works of the DUP deal

Excuse the source but there is a wee video clip of him saying this. He does not say exactly what the headline says. He doesn't mention the DUP deal directly

https://skwawkbox.org/2017/06/22/breaking-ireland-will-block-brexit-deal-if-maydup-deal-goes-ahead/

That rather throws a spanner in the works of the DUP deal

Text of DUP deal is published [url= https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/conservative-and-dup-agreement-and-uk-government-financial-support-for-northern-ireland/agreement-between-the-conservative-and-unionist-party-and-the-democratic-unionist-party-on-support-for-the-government-in-parliament ]online[/url]

[i]

...Both parties will adhere fully to their respective commitments set out in the Belfast Agreement and its successors. The Conservative Party reiterates its steadfast support for the Belfast Agreement and its successors and, as the UK government, will continue to govern in the interests of all part of the community in Northern Ireland. The UK government will continue to support close co-operation with the Irish government, and work with them in accordance with the Belfast Agreement and subsequent agreements, while recognising that ultimate responsibility for political stability in Northern Ireland rests with the UK government...

...The DUP will have no involvement in the UK government’s role in political talks in Northern Ireland. It will continue to participate as a party entitled to form part of an Executive following the last Assembly election, as the other parties do.[/i]

So they say Ninfan - however the reality is different. Its a real threat from the Irish and there is also a court case ongoing. the UK government have a duty under the GFA to be impartial. How can they favour the DUP like this without breaching that duty.

How much of this extra money will go to areas with SF mps? What other demands are they going to cave into - marching season is upon us and voices in the unionist movement are already calling for previous banned provocative marches to go ahead.

Its another nail in the coffin of the DUP stitchup

So they say Ninfan - [u]however the reality is different[/u].

Given that the ink is barely even dry on the agreement, would you care to present any evidence that either the DUP or the UK Govt are breaching this undertaking of failing to fulfil their obligations under the GFA then TJ.

You can make accusations - however to claim that "the reality is different" so soon sounds like hyperbole, the exact sort of hyperbole that the [i]usual suspects[/i] start to come out with whenever they don't like the outcome of the democratic process.

well that is that then the tories need them to be the Uk government but they wont take that into account in NI and will be going hard after them for the ashgate issue.

That is me convinced then -

TBH this is not even a political point it is just obvious that they have far more influence and it has changed things. It is just what it is irrespective of the parties involved.

lets not forget the cause of all this

The UUP, which has 16 seats in the Northern Ireland assembly compared with the 38 held by Foster’s Democratic Unionist party (DUP), has joined a cross-party effort to seek the first minister’s resignation over the fuel subsidy scheme.

A motion of no confidence in her leadership is being debated on Monday. It was tabled by the nationalist Social Democratic and Labour party (SDLP), with support from the UUP, Alliance party, Green party, Traditional Unionist Voice and People Before Profit Alliance.

Martin McGuinness, the deputy first minister, has called on Foster to step aside amid an investigation into the scheme, which offered financial incentives to farms, businesses and other non-domestic consumers to use biomass boilers that mostly burned wood pellets, as well as solar thermal and heat pumps.

I look forward to the Tory govt impartially deciding on this

To be fair I think a lot of politicians would have done as she has done and cling to power but lets not pretend it has not given the DUP more influence than if they were not needed by the government to pass legislation.

I realise you could just as I realise you dont really believe it

I think a lot of the hysteria needs to chill out on the DUP, no need to speculate, let events run their natural course.

Ninfan - Member
You can make accusations - however to claim that "the reality is different" so soon sounds like hyperbole, the exact sort of hyperbole that the usual suspects start to come out with whenever they don't like the outcome of the democratic process.

Fair point...but for it to work, not only must justice be done, it must also be [b]seen[/b] to be done. Otherwise there can be no trust in the outcome.

however to claim that "the reality is different" so soon sounds like hyperbole, the exact sort of hyperbole that the usual suspects start to come out with whenever they don't like the outcome of the democratic process.

We all know she has more power now as she is needed by the UK government to remain the Uk government

Ninfan earlier[img] [/img]

And that is called paying the Dane-geld; but we've proved it again and again, that if once you have paid him the Dane-geld you never get rid of the Dane.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/06/27/dup-demand-460m-tax-cuts-keep-theresa-may-power-brexit/

The reality is different because there is no way May can or will treat the DUP the same as other parties in NI - indeed the very nature of the agreement is such that she is not treating them equally.

Personally, I won't be sorry to see the back of this lot.

And more trouble

The scottish government is going to open a formal dispute over the terms of the DUP dealon the grounds it should mean more money for Scotland under Barnett. ~Considering the Scottish secretary Mundell said it would now May says it won't.

a bit of confusion in the article tho

http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/nicola-sturgeon-to-formally-dispute-dup-conservative-deal-1-4487833

So let me see. A court case, Eire stating they will block brexit deals, Legal dispute with Scotland

A really well thought thru deal this one wasn't it

@binners yes £20 on GE before end of 2018. My view is the Tories just won't hold any controversial votes in 2018. All bland Brexit procedural stuff or things Labour will support, eg domestic violence. Not betting on riots.

So let me see. A court case, Eire stating they will block brexit deals, Legal dispute with Scotland

A really well thought thru deal this one wasn't it

once again we are a warning to the rest of the world (and the rEU obvs)....

dont try and turn your back on your closest allies, or chaos will ensue

[quote=jambalaya ]My view is the Tories just won't hold any controversial votes in 2018. All bland Brexit procedural stuff or things Labour will support, eg domestic violence.

I expect you'll find Labour proposing amendments galore in that case.

[Ruth Davidson] Very keen on human rights.

Very keen on LGBT rights, anyway.

Indeed Aracer - and I can see amendments being posted designed to split Davidson and the DUP. IE something one will love the other will hate

DrJ - Member

[Ruth Davidson] Very keen on human rights.

Very keen on LGBT rights, anyway.

I'm starting to have an admiration for the sheer bare-faced front of this government.

Spend weeks drumming up a tawdry deal with one party in Northern Irelands famously partisan assembly. All to save your sorry arse at the cost of billions.

Then come out the very next day with a statement telling the rest of the parties they need to sort their shit out by tomorrow afternoon

It'd actually be funny, if it wasn't just yet another part of the enormous almighty cluster**** we're all stuck in the middle of.

I litteraly do feel, with the Brexit shambles, this, and god knows what else, that I'm sat watching a slow motion car crash, the long term implications of which don't even bear thinking about. And all to serve the selfish personal interests of the most clueless PM this country has ever seen, and the utter nutjobs she seems hell bent on placating at literally any cost

@aracer it won't work. Tories aren't daft and will stick together (plus 3 line whips etc), they won't get enough dissent to overturn an effective majority of 13. As i said DUP will do all they to keep Corbyn and McDonnell away from power. Deal ensures Queens Speech will pass and thereafter 2018 sessions will be very quiet imho.

@binners a good while longer in ranty opposition I think

As i said DUP will do all they to keep Corbyn and McDonnell away from power.

If that were true there'd be no need for a billion pound bung then.......

... and the Maybot must be the worst negotiator ever!

Jammers.... Tebbit is being interviewed on Five Live. I'm sure you'd be in total agreement with everything he has to say. To those of us in the real world, he seems to be existing in some type of alternative universe.

Apparently we should all be feeeling terribly sorry for poor old Theresa, as she's under an awful lot of pressure 😆

Hope the bitch is squirming every minute of the day and her nights are very long and devoid of sleep.

[img] [/img]

[quote=jambalaya ]@aracer it won't work. Tories aren't daft and will stick together (plus 3 line whips etc), they won't get enough dissent to overturn an effective majority of 13.

In that case why don't they just have a normal programme of legislation? You can't have it both ways - if they weren't vulnerable to votes on amendments then there would be no need for them to limit votes to non controversial issues. It's not going to be anywhere near as simple as you're suggesting given they don't have a majority of 150.

Corbyn has already set out his tactics, and whilst 3 line whips might work for a while, the MPs will get tired of it and as suggested above Labour will be introducing amendments designed to exploit splits in the "coalition". At some point some MPs will find it impossible to vote against an amendment and then the cracks will start to form.

Tories aren't daft and will stick together

How did that "sticking together" thing work on the Brexit referedum?

[img] :large[/img]

Worth a read:

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/this-dup-deal-turns-the-tables-on-gerry-adams-8cfcw25wl?shareToken=11f220e4265c0a6c56a9ae1b9563e589

Worth a read:

What a pile of bigoted shite.

What a pile of bigoted shite.

calling a persons writing shite is a dyslexo-phobic microagression Darcy, you are a bigot.