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That Teresa May certainly knows how to negotiate a deal. Not.
[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-40403434 ]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-40403434[/url]
That money tree is growing fast! 😉
Surely £10m each for £10 votes - sounds like a bargain!
Surely £10m each for £10 votes - sounds like a bargain
Eh?
Jeez what are we going to end up paying the EU? 😉
I might email my Labour MP to advise her to accept £100 million for the town in exchange for voting through the Queen's Speech.
So under Barnett that means extra money for Scotland and wales - IIRC 5 billion for Scotland, 2 billion for wales.
Watch the press for the demands and then the wriggling from the tories
Well, it was a sight cheaper than two new aircraft carriers....
She is an enemy of the people.
She and her cronies must be held accountable.
The only people she can blame for her failings are us, the British people.After all, a massive majority voted for whatever shit storm she conjure up.
We will soon feel her wrath.
Seems that might not be true. From the Beeb:So under Barnett that means extra money for Scotland and wales - IIRC 5 billion for Scotland, 2 billion for wales.
Sources close to the deal suggest the agreement may not affect the so-called Barnet formula - which governs the distribution of public spending across the UK nations - because most of the money will go to specific projects rather than general spending.
Seems plausible... i.e. they'd try to avoid giving Scotland and Wales extra cash
The Barnett formula is said to have "no legal standing or democratic justification",[3] and, being merely a convention, could be changed at will by the Treasury.
But but but my constituency in Wales voted Tory! Why dont we get extra money! Not fair
So £1bn is the price of hubris, and they've just given a display of how poor they are at negotiations. Bodes well 🙄
1 billion from less than 300,000 votes 😆
mudshark - Member
The Barnett formula is said to have "no legal standing or democratic justification",[3] and, being merely a convention, could be changed at will by the Treasury.
That's good, we are looking for a suitable opportunity to provide the publicity for another referendum.
But what is this going to do to the Good Friday Agreement? And following from that Ireland has said it will veto any Brexit deal if it is unhappy about the GFA.
So it looks like no Brexit deal because of a bad deal with the DUP.
dmorts - thats how they will try to weasel out of it but Barnett is a mechanism for avoiding unfair spending deals and extra money for NI should mean extra money for Scotland and Wales - its all based on % of total spending
isn't it more like 150 million.
To the gang that may have a slight history of ballsing up.
(Explains the sneaky leak about it being 2billion to soften us up for accepting 1billion + the other odd half billion)
Mark Thomas: "'We send the DUP £1bn, let's fund our NHS instead' hey let's put that on the side of a bus."
quite.
It's a interesting to hear all the criticism coming from the Labour Party and that they would never dream of negotiating with the DUP or offer financial inducements in order to secure a coalition.
Despite the fact they did exactly the same thing at the 2010 and 2015 elections.
Despite the fact they did exactly the same thing at the 2010 and 2015 elections.
Not sure if you have noticed but the Labour leadership changed recently? So the relevance of the previous elections is somewhat limited unless you quote Corbyn and co?
Plus reading that article all Brown seems to have said is he wasnt going to reduce spending from previously agreed levels.
So not quite the same thing as the Maybot is promising.
I know it is hard defending the tories at the moment but you really could try harder.
Not sure if you have noticed but the Labour leadership changed recently? So the relevance of the previous elections is somewhat limited unless you quote Corbyn and co?
Ah ok. Yes. Current Labour Party is "different" to old Labour Party despite the fact most of the MPs are the same.
Where were Corbyn's and McDonnell's voices in 2010 and 2015 then? Curiously there doesn't seem to be any record of them speaking out against Labour discussions with the DUP back then.
Ah ok. Yes. Current Labour Party is "different" to old Labour Party despite the fact most of the MPs are the same.Where were Corbyn's and McDonnell's voices in 2010 and 2015 then? Curiously there doesn't seem to be any record of them speaking out against Labour discussions with the DUP back then.
Whether or not Labour with our without Corbyn was in talks with the DUP, the BNP, Kim Jong Un or Kim Kardashian, what difference does it make beyond Internet Point Scoring as to what was said seven years and three elections ago? Is "he did it years ago" justification for doing it today?
They're all politicians, most of them will change their minds and their allegiances as often as their socks. Two years ago May was a staunch Remain campaigner and a year ago we were led to believe we were going to send more money to the NHS. That all went well, didn't it.
What Cougar said.
Pointing out how shitty someone else was 7 years ago doesn't excuse shitty behaviour now.
How the hell can this be legal?
Curiously there doesn't seem to be any record of them speaking out against Labour discussions with the DUP back then.
Yes because the press are well known for reporting them accurately arent they?
Since you want me to go searching how about you go and find where the Maybot is on record condemning the tories vote Labour and get the SNP ads.
Or just stick to the fact that Brown simply said he wasnt going to cut spending and didnt offer them billions on top plus any old policies the DUP fancied.
imagine saving all that money denying benefits to people in need and then blowing it all to prop up a government in need.
Desperate Tories fanboys trying to compare zombie Maybots morality deficit to something Gordon Brown didnt do 7 years ago...... 😆
Wow! Labour did a deal with the DUP in 2010 and 2015!? The mind boggles!
Oh wait, they didn't actually do a deal- so what was your point Tories?
He ( Ian Blackford) also claimed that the Scotland secretary, David Mundell, had categorically assured the SNP that Scotland would be in line for “Barnett consequentials as a result of the DUP deal”.
As we should be given how often we have been assured that Barnett is not going to be changed.
5 billion please. Enough to dual the A9 and a nice pay rise for the public sector
They better spend it fast if we get another election the torys might ask for it back.
So tidal Eco power this time?
They're just setting themselves up for criticism, they seem to be handing the opposition rocks for throwing at them.
All those "new" Tories in Scotland are going to feel stung!
Remember kids, what Labour did in the past is way more importany than what the Tories do today and tomorrow
Or rather, what Labour didn't do
I take it the missing Magic Money Tree has been found then?
All those "new" Tories in Scotland are going to feel stung!
Why, because 'they got something we didn't get'?
Isn't that what all you lefties call the politics of envy?
what Labour did in the past
You're forgetting, that wasn't Labour, it was the evil Red Tories...
What is this other dimension you speak of ninfan?
Democracy at it's worse..
Democracy at it's worse..
I reckon Germany, 1933, probably tops it to be honest
Feels a bit wrong, but it is no different to, and pales into insignificance compared to the half a trillion pounds worth of bribes in Corbyn's manifesto.
Ruth Davidson should threaten that the 13 Scottish Tories will vote against the Queen's Speech unless the Barnett formula is applied to the DUP bribe.
He ( Ian Blackford) also claimed that the Scotland secretary, David Mundell, had categorically assured the SNP that Scotland would be in line for “Barnett consequentials as a result of the DUP deal”.As we should be given how often we have been assured that Barnett is not going to be changed.
5 billion please. Enough to dual the A9 and a nice pay rise for the public sector
Isn't it a percentage of revenue? So England would have to find some extra money too, which doesn't seem very likely.
ChrisL - Member
Ruth Davidson should threaten that the 13 Scottish Tories will vote against the Queen's Speech unless the Barnett formula is applied to the DUP bribe.
I'm sure she's feeling a bit pissed off right now. She's being uncharacteristically quiet.
I wonder was her trip to London in expectation of getting the assistant Secy of State for Scotland job and elevation to the HoL?
So if I'm right, and bearing in mind May is on a shoogly peg, maybe we will see some reaction.
Fair point 🙂I reckon Germany, 1933, probably tops it to be honest
tinas - its % of spending IIRC. Its an odd arcane formula that really could do with replacement however its pretty clear that extra spending for NI above barnet should mean equivalent funding for Scotland and wales.
On Davidson - seeing as she is gay and is in ( or going to be in) a protestant / Catholic marriage you can bet she is most unhappy at the DUP deal. Her tweet on it was very good.
epicyclo - I doubt very much Davidson will bring down a tory government but I bet she extracts a price for staying quiet. She is unlike most senior tories in that she is not beholden to anyone at westminster and is part of no faction. she has her own power base in Scotland and is very secure in it.
HOL select committee report on Barnett Formula:
[i]‘Formula Bypass’ since 1997
42. Notwithstanding the fact that the Formula has been applied more rigidly since 1999, there have been significant increases in funding for the devolved administrations outside the application of the Formula. For Northern Ireland, the Reform and Reinvestment Initiative was introduced in 2002, and provided for borrowing powers, a fund for capital investment in infrastructure, and a strategic investment board to manage infrastructure improvements. In addition, Northern Ireland benefited from additional funding from the Treasury to support European Union (EU) funding as well as under the ‘PEACE 2’ programme. Wales also secured additional funding to support use of EU Objective 1 monies (and subsequently Convergence Fund monies, as the successor to Objective 1). Such funds are transferred outside the scope of the Barnett Formula, so in that sense constitute ‘Formula Bypass’.36 Decisions about whether they should be granted or not have been taken by the United Kingdom Government to date, after representations by the devolved administrations but without, so far, involving the JMC formal machinery.37 Another issue which may have to be similarly dealt with is the future funding of policing in Northern Ireland.[/i]
So, looks like it's perfectly acceptable for funding to be made outside Barnett criteria without affecting payments to other regions - sorry TJ.
Magic money tree sprouting extra branches all over the shop, what with that 1.5bn & triple lock and winter fuel payments being kept too. It's bungs for the OAPS & DUPs...
Plus the Tories have now allied themselves with the most bigoted anachronistic party in the UK (UKIP not a real party, obvs)
That'll go down well with the younger voters Corbyn has managed to engage.
The Tories new theme tune?
Brexshit hasn't really even hit the fan yet, but at least the Tories are doing a good job of smearing themselves in faeces
So, looks like it's perfectly acceptable for funding to be made outside Barnett criteria without affecting payments to other regions - sorry TJ.
Yes 100% acceptable if you live in NI for sure, for the rest of austerity Britain, it's looking like a fat juicy bribe with taxpayers money, that's exactly what all those Tory voters were after, I'm sure 😉
Colonel Ruthless D. has said Barnett doesn't apply.
Fluffy Mundell said it does.
Given the Scottish Tories existing cosy relationship with the Orange Order, why would anything in the DUP deal bother Ruth?
Ruth Davidson doesn't seem that bothered.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-40406346
Scottish Conservative leader Ruth Davidson argued it was "absurd" to criticise UK government spending on top of Barnett in Northern Ireland, when "the exact same thing happens in Scotland".
David Mundell on the other hand.
Scottish Secretary David Mundell has previously said he would not support funding which "deliberately sought to subvert the Barnett rules".Speaking to BBC Scotland last week, he added: "We have clear rules about funding of different parts of the United Kingdom.
"If the funding falls within Barnett consequentials, it should come to Scotland."
Mr Mundell was also quoted in newspapers over the weekend as saying that he would block any "back door funding" for Northern Ireland if it meant the other devolved nations missing out.
I'm sure he'll do a u-turn soon enough.
scotroutes - Member
Colonel Ruthless D. has said Barnett doesn't apply.Fluffy Mundell said it does.
Given the Scottish Tories existing cosy relationship with the Orange Order, why would anything in the DUP deal bother Ruth?
I'd also think any idea that Ruth and her dirty bakers dozen will be anything other than subservient to London herarchy is laughable.
Given the Scottish Tories existing cosy relationship with the Orange Order,
I know, the way it's all going anyone would think that they were some sort of conservative [u]and[/u] unionist party wouldn't they?
Exactly. That's why I goggle at the surprise some are showing.
Of course she can always feign disgust at their stance on LGBT rights as long as she doesn't let that get in the way of her ambition.
The Conservative & Unionist* party,
*LGBTs, kaffliks, climate change advocates and believers in dinosaurs need not apply! 😆
5 billion please. Enough to dual the A9 and a nice pay rise for the public sector
Christ, you must be a barrel of laughs TJ! 5 Billion and you'd buy a [i]road[/i]? 😆
A9 is fine as it is btw, spend it on bike park Scotland!
I think Davidson will extract a real price from May. Things like the fisheries and agriculture decision making coming back from the EU will go to Holyrood not Westminster. Maybe a nice chunk of funding for rural development.
The real issue will come if the DUP force a vote on something she just couldn't stomach - like an "conscience clause" for registrars so they don't have to conduct gay marriage.
I think she unlike many is an honest politician with a real social conscience. She has looked very uncomfortable at times defending Westminster policy on things she does not like. She also has a very strong and solid power base in Scotland.
I could see her splitting the scots tories off from the english - IIRC the parties are much more separate than the Labour party so would be fairly easy to do.
She is still young and has time on her side. She won't want to be tory leader in Westminster now - but in ten years?
she unlike many is an honest politician with a real social conscience. She has looked very uncomfortable at times defending Westminster policy on things she does not like
yet the principled politician still did it
The reality is she will not press the nuclear option of taking the scottish tories out of westminster ones - she is a unionist after all- so all she has is some pretty stern tutting to do coupled with more principled support for policies she does not like.
cuckooland TJ.tjagain - Member
I think Davidson will extract a real price from May.
We shall see. She has her own powerbase and she is in a very strong position. Would be very good for her politically to be able to say - "this is what you get if you vote tory in Scotland - a nice branch of the magic money tree"
I am more worried about the risk of the IRA remobilising than the 1Billion of extra spending (over 2 years)
TJ - are you on something? What on earth is causing your Davidson love-in. She's done u-turn after u-turn (line in the sand?) and is plainly only interested in her own ambitions. She'll do nothing to rock the boat and has already dismissed any notion of a breakaway Scottish Tory party.
I read her very differently scotroutes. Thats all. See her tweet about the DUP for one example.
We will see ho is right in the fullness of time. I think she will do a fair amount of arm twisting behind the scenes given her position of relative power right now. She won't bring a tory government down of course under any circumstances but I can see her extracting stuff from Westminster like fisheries and agriculture to come to holyrood not westminster then claiming this as a good reason to vote tory in Scotland.
I ain't tribal in my politics - not that I would ever vote tory in any form.
Yeah we're always skint unless the Tories want to spend the money.
Balls. All of it.
So if the NI money is dependant on both parties adhering to commitments in the Good Friday Agreement, doesnt that include a return to power sharing? Havent Sinn Fien vowed not to form a power sharing government with Arlene Foster in it, and also isnt Gerry Adams vehemently anti brexit? Be interesting to see if Sinn Fien take the money or decide to kick up a fuss.
She won't bring a tory government down of course under any circumstances
which if true (and believed to be true by May), makes her utterly powerless.
as i said all she will do is tut
May knows this in fact everyone seems to know it but you
What did she say about going separate with the Scottish tories
"bollocks"
We shall see. she is in a very strong position in some ways and is far more able than anyone at Westminster.
don't let hatred of the tories blind you.
Should be enough cash in the NI kitty now to resurrect the renewable heating scheme for a few more years...
she's not really, you expecting her to threaten to bring down the government? What other power does she have beyond that? She has a certain power to talk the SNP down at the movement in her smug manner and sound like she's got some authority, but really that's it(and that's only cause the SNP look a bit unsure of themselves at the moment, but even that perception will wain).tjagain - Member
We shall see. she is in a very strong position
Within the tory westminster party she has no more power than any other random grouping of 13 mps. And tbh, even in that context, she isn't the one with any power. I'd doubt even if those 13 MPs will view her as their ultimate authority, once most find their feet.
tbh last week, I thought the same as yourself that she'll have some power, but when you think about it, nah not really. I'd doubt the rest of the party will even take her all that seriously unless she got a seat in westminster.
Well Gideon's having fun with the Tory own goal
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Be interesting to see if Sinn Fien take the money or decide to kick up a fuss
They had no problem taking the Northern Bank caiish
Should be enough cash in the NI kitty now to resurrect the renewable heating scheme for a few more years...
Nah some new roads and a few bigger drums for the Shankill Proddy Boys flute band
[quote=tjagain ]We shall see. she is in a very strong position in some ways her choices are
!, agree with PM
2. threaten the union and the tory govt by forming a second party
She has said she wont pick option 2 so what is her strong position exactly?
and is far more able than anyone at Westminster.
Not much of a challenge there tbh
I am not i am just wondering what you are basing your confidence on
don't let hatred of the tories blind you.
Stolen from Theresa May's Leaving Drinks
"I used to look at my payslip and wonder what NI contributions meant, now I know"
"I used to look at my payslip and wonder what NI contributions meant, now I know"
😆
Maybot is doing a brilliant job of dragging the Tories down
Looking shiny Maybot
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The Tories poll ratings must be doing well 😉
Junkyard - the sort of thing I mean is things like Davidson got May to agree that the means testing of winter fuel payments would not be implemented in Scotland - of course its now dropped entirely but that was before the election and now Davidsons position is stronger giving her more leverage.
Fisheries and agriculture that now is a EU matter and May wants these to go to Westminster in the great repeal bill but Davidson will push for them will instead go to holyrood.
the tory party is riven with factions and infighting and although Davidson will not bring the tory government down Davidson becomes and important player in the internal fighting - and to support May in that I think she will extract a price.
Its just my judgement based on davidsons public pronouncements and actions to date. she has said she expects "her" MPs to act in Scotlands interests. she has total control over the party in Scotland
I've just wasted 5 mins watching that snake,Ian Duncan Smith,explaining that it's not 1 billion,and it's not a bribe.Poor man,he always gets the shitty jobs. 😯
she's not really, you expecting her to threaten to bring down the government? What other power does she have beyond that? <snip>
Within the tory westminster party she has no more power than any other random grouping of 13 mps. And tbh, even in that context, she isn't the one with any power. I'd doubt even if those 13 MPs will view her as their ultimate authority, once most find their feet.<snip>
I'd doubt the rest of the party will even take her all that seriously unless she got a seat in westminster.
Pretty much agree with all of your post. Plus 'her' seats will probably be lost shortly when avoiding a Indyref2 becomes a less pressing issue.
However, the Tories currently have no obvious vote winner to take over from May. Davidson *is* a vote winner. So Davidson is a shoe in for Tory leader within this parliament, *except* that she'd need to be parachuted into a safe seat and it would be a bit odd if she took a non-Scottish seat.
If the Tories can overcome that technical problem, Davidson could have a vast amount of power within the Party in a very short period of time.
Davisdson is far to smart to take the westminster leadership now. In the future yes after this lot get further discredited probably but she is too astute a politician to not wait until they have been in opposition a while
Would she remain true to herself or is there some dark force that bends you to the "Tory way"?
I should imagine all her skeletons are out in the open so no blackmailing from Murdoch?
What are Ebola Mays true feelings on brexit? You can't be passionate one way them equally passionate the other just because it's your job. Surely you must have some principles.
You could make me manger of Chelsea and I'd still be a West Ham fan.
