Why not give the Argies the Shetland Isles? It makes as much geographical sense as us having The Falklands
At the time the offer was Northern Ireland for the Falklands.....it was not seen to be a fair offer by the Argies.
what nick c said.
It's a commercial move isn't it. "We ain't, can't do anything but if you want to use our waters/ports it will cost"
And the daily wail, linked from the BBC, headline is that the argie's have taken control of the Falkland's waters. Amazing, as are some of the reader comments.
Last time our forces had no realistic non-nuclear capability to attack mainland Argentinean military facilities. One difference this time is that we do, and that I think would be a key factor in any conflict.
Argentina would also need absolute surprise in launching an attack in order for their invasion force to make it to the Falklands this time, given the threat from nuclear subs and from the aircraft based in the Falklands.
I was a naval intelligence officer in the late 80's and a lot of lessons were learnt, including that it shouldn't take much of a force stationed in the Falklands to render any invasion attempt by Argentina risky and costly.
Ewan - Member
Didn't they build a massive runway down that way after 82? Presumably the argies wouldn't get near it.
Yep. they built it allright, Last time I was down there it was being used as a rather awesome Go-karting Track....
El-Bent,the GR9 has no radar therefore has practically no air-air capability unless you're really wishing to put all your faith in AIM-9M. I wouldn't! No radar = total reliance on visual acquisition. Oops!
You haven't learned much from the last conflict. The Argentine airforce who are still using the same generation of fighters as in 82, will be at the limit of their endurance and would not want to mix it up with harriers, like in 82. The only way the Argentine airforce could survive is to adopt the tactics of 82 and fly low but while the gr9's don't have radar the Royal navy now have airborne early warning, which removes the low fly tactic and will vector the gr9's onto target.
You would be right about the lack of requirement for long range assets if we had a deployable air-air capability, but we sold those to the Indians!
What?
and exactly where do you propose all these extra troops will come from?
The major draw through NATO is Afghanistan.
Like I said, if the situation warranted it, what would you think the UK Government would do eh? Keep troops in Afghanistan and leave the Argentinians to occupy UK territory?
Dick.
All of which doesn't matter as Argentina is not currently capable of invading and holding territory and we will know the minute they try anything.
the argentines must be very bitter about it
imgine if there was a potentially oil rich island off our coast owned by a foreign power that was based in another hemisphere
there cant be that many of these imperial anachronisms left in the world, we will have to give it back one day
I think if the current goverment stay in power then they will probably give the Falklands back as they have no backbone...they virtually gave away our gold reserves so why not the chance of a nice big oil resrve.
Hopefully though to preserve the honour of the fallen british Soldiers we should get heavy with them, and say hoi give us back our ship or else we will senf in the Ghurhas to scare the crap out of you. I have some friends who served in the Falklands and they said the Argies where terrified of the Ghurhas as they liked to sneek up on them and slit their throats.
Give them back to whom exactly? The "ownership" of the islands has been disputed since before Argentina gained it's independance. There are many countries that have laid claim to them and Britain's claim is as good (or bad) as anyones. Given that the entire population want to stay as part of the UK then I can't see any compelling reason to give it to anyone.
we will have to give it back one day
A ridiculous statement - the driving force should always be the decision of the residents, the Bennies have identified themselves as "British" for as long as the Argentines have been trying to claim ownership.
Its like saying that we should hand "ownership" of the Channel islands to France, even though they have no history or cultural ties with modern France (they have been a possession of the Duchy of Normandy since time immemorial)
Now im no no expert on international territorial disputes but come on!!!!
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infact we do seem to have a lot of imperial relics!
The oil and gas potential of the faklands means its the one that people care about
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Geographical anomolies exist all over the world, look at Alaska for example. Decisions are better made by the population rather than geography.
Indeed, colonialism was a bad, bad time we caused a holocaust's worth of deaths all in the name of bringing exotic food and goods to Britain while enslaving or dominating other populations. These relics or at least those which are wanted by their former sovereign states should be handed back.
Is it really worth another thousand deaths and hundreds of millions of pounds and loss of international diplomatic legitamacy for a chunk of rock and a few people?
so when the population of catholics in NI passes the 50% mark as i believe its due to in a few years everyones agreed it will become part of ireland?
[i]look at Alaska for example[/i]
Bought by America from the Russians, all legit and everything. hardly the same at all really
by their idea that the falklands being argentinian, should they not give tierra del fuego to the chileans?
Is Tierra del Fuego claimed by the Chileans
A fair few of you sound quite war-mongering.
Is it really worth another thousand deaths and hundreds of millions of pounds and loss of international diplomatic legitamacy for a chunk of rock and a few people?
sadly its not just a chunk of rock and a few people its about all that potential oil
but with so many on here getting all misty eyed at recollections of slitting argy throats and the red tops ready to beat the propaganda drum so we all get blinded by patriotism
till we turn on the pm and realise we went to war for teh wrong reasons, if there is a right reason
everyones agreed it will become part of ireland?
If the people of NI decide that that is what they want then I've got no issue with it.
Bought by America from the Russians, all legit and everything. hardly the same at all really
And how did the Russians get hold of what is clearly part of Canada then?
What exaclty is not legit with the UK having soveriegnty over the Falkland isles? There was no indiginous population there when they were discovered by europeans so they had a bit of a fight over then and britain won.
My work colleagues kitkat chunky is closer to me at the moment than it is to him, i'm not going to suddenly lay claim to it though.
I'd go for the Kitkat if I was you!
My work colleagues kitkat chunky is closer to me at the moment than it is to him, i'm not going to suddenly claim to it though.
does it have oil?
Hainey, I'd argue that it wasn't a 'Kitkat' but rather 'la barra de chocolate kitkata'. Then grab it and barricade yourself on their desk. Make sure you ask him if he's got any Typhoons first.
Maybe the Americans should hand Texas back to Mexico?
actually, to be fair they should both hand the whole lot back to the Indians.
And, really, the Argentines should hand their whole country over to someone else since they were just a Spanish colonial possession themselves... what real claim can they hold when the Falklands have been British since BEFORE Argentina as a nation was created?
good point Z11 but i still cant see people sitting happily with it if teh situation were reversed
kimbers - so any island 500km from the coast of a larger nation should be invaded by that nation so it can exploit its mineral reserves? Not to mention that Argentina is trying to lay claim to South Georgia too, which is 1500km or more from Argentina.
By your logic Iceland should never have been Danish and so we should invade immediately.
And don't go on holiday to the Canary Islands, Madeira or the Azores, that would be supporting imperialism by Spain and Portugal 😉
I think we should lay claim to France.
Already have.
You ever been to the Dordogne? English is the first spoken language in some villages. 😛
It will all come down to the oil,Argentina will want part of it,and will end up giving concessions on it's ports for a share.Until then we will play poker with warships and highly expensive missiles.Going to the UN would be a waste of time as we are one of the holders of a veto.
Hora;Argentina does not have the clout with the US that it used to. It all about Muslims now,Communists are so 1980's. Also the truth coming out about what the Argentinian secret police did to anybody browsing the Billy Bragg section in HMV Cordoba made even the US pale.The Falkland Islanders wanted to stay part of the UK,more so after their brief taste of the military Junta and the half-Irish secret policeman sent to head up internal security during the occupation,so IMO their geographical location becomes of secondary importance.
Although not relevant or succesful, Thatcher sending the Vulcans down was an amazing logistical feat.Must have been busy at Diego's underwear emporium the next morning.
Hainey; large parts of France were in the posession of England until the 16th century.Should you not be elsewhere fighting with rprt and Junkyard? 😀
Who me? I just wander from room to room.
All the little red dots in the map above are potentially sitting on large oil deposits, if you consider where the main oil basins are today, they just may be a little more inhospitable to develop (at the minute)
Just no other country is really disputing them thats why no one cares
yeah id like to see the american reaction if we started drilling in the carribean!
im not sure about falklands but a firend did his geology phd looking for oil in the falklands (lived there for 2 months) and he is of the opinion that there isnt much
but if oil prices keep rising and more favorable studies have been done then it becomes more viable to extract from there
I recently found out I have Argentinian kin...
so I have no strong opinion on this matter (makes a change) 😉
[i]infact we do seem to have a lot of imperial relics![/i]
Most of those are now just strategic military bases.
hope nothing kicks off too soon as ive got to go down there for work in june for 4 months!!
deep joy!! 🙁
Dust the Vulcan off chaps its got a job to do.
yeah id like to see the american reaction if we started drilling in the carribean!
What you mean like the oil developments that have being going on in Trinidad since the 19th Century?
What tyres for the Falklands ? 😀
imgine if there was a potentially oil rich island off our coast owned by a foreign power that was based in another hemisphere
there cant be that many of these imperial anachronisms left in the world, we will have to give it back one day
Crap. It has nothing to do with Imperialism. You can't hand back something that was never theirs in the first place. The Falklands were recorded by a Spanish ship, but the first landing and possesion was by a British ship. The only country that could possibly lay a claim would be Spain. Argentina, as a former Spanish colony, is really getting ideas above it's station if it thinks it can lay claim to somewhere that had just been marked on a chart by it's former owner. Also, one of the problems that faced our taskforce was a lack of an airborne early warning system to detect the Exocet carrying Skyhawks. That was solved by jury-rigging a radome onto the side of Seaking helicopters and sending them out in advance of the picket line. We did have a superb AEW plane, the Gannet, which could stooge around for fourteen hours with a highly effective radar system, but it had been scrapped.
Oh yes, it was Tony Benn, as Minister of Defense for the previous Labour Party that removed a sophisticated and highly effective carrier-borne system that would have prevented the loss of a number of our ships, like my brother's ship, the Coventry.
We did have a superb AEW plane, the Gannet, which could stooge around for fourteen hours with a highly effective radar system, but it had been scrapped.
Needed a full size carrier anyway, which we didn't have in '82.
Edit to the above re: Falklands ownership.
Although first sighted by an English navigator in 1592, the first landing (English) did not occur until almost a century later in 1690, and the first settlement (French) was not established until 1764. The colony was turned over to Spain two years later and the islands have since been the subject of a territorial dispute, first between Britain and Spain, then between Britain and Argentina. The UK asserted its claim to the islands by establishing a naval garrison there in 1833. Argentina invaded the islands on 2 April 1982. The British responded with an expeditionary force that landed seven weeks later and after fierce fighting forced an Argentine surrender on 14 June 1982.
Noted about the carriers, but Gannets had folding wings, could easily have been carried down by ship, then flown from the airfield. Fantastically tough airplane, I put together a book about it years ago, and there was a photograph of one that had lost both outer folding wing-tips in flight, but still stayed in the air and plane and crew made it safely back to base. I think it was something like a metre of wing missing each side. Lovely plane.
El-bent, if it wasn't so obvious you know bugger all about the RAF and airpower in general, I'd object to you calling me a dick.
But it is and I don't. Go do your homework.
All this 'we'll give them another bloody nose,bring it on ect ect.
Hey people!
[i] Skin of our teeth [/i] on the last run if you know anything about it.
Catalogue of disasters beginning to end and pure bloody luck at the end.
Another conflict would be far worse casualty wise,both sides have learned about fighting on the Falklands terrain,so its likely the'd be well dug in at height.Ship bombardment cant be used as the place is full of civvies,
Air cover is difficult too with only one or two carriers,and Argentina have aircraft with flight ranges that include to Falklands from their own bases.
I wont go into the design flaws our carriers have 😆
.
Cos i cant 😉
so its likely the'd be well dug in at height
If they got there this time...