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unfitgeezer, it sounds like you're running a brilliant service and I wish you lots of luck. It also sounds like it's funded, at least in part, by public sector funding.
Here's a thought: if you don't have a pension, who's going to look after you if/when you're unable to work?
unfitgeezer - Member
I started/manage a bike shop six years ago that is owned by a charity, we employ 3 adults with learning difficulties on a full time basis and 5 more adults come and gain work experience throughout the week.I do this on my own I don't receive a pension nor can I afford one I earn under £30000 and have a family, my wife doesn't work as child care would be more than we earn! (she is a trained nurse)
There you go shout abuse at me all you like!
Nice one. Sounds like you have a rewarding job and add something to society. You'd probably find you share a similar outlook on life with many in the public sector. Keep up the good work, and i hope cuts to the third sector don't hit your business too hard. It is a shame you're wife's skills aren't being used more, as her training would have been a significant investment. Childcare is stupidly expensive.
As I said strike away you get no sympathy from me...
As pointed out above, we're not after sympathy.
I'm in the private sector, the wife's works in the Public sector, she's not striking but they have been told if you go out your position is in jeapordy when the next round of job cuts take place in the new year.
Nothing like a good bit of black-mail to prevent the democratic to air your views. 🙄
Good man. I'd heard dawn sarf it was 7am.
Seems to be based on each local Union. There's designated picket lines for ours, well the Union said there will be and they'd give us plenty notice. 13 hours is enough I suppose so maybe they'll let us know soon.
if you go out your position is in jeapordy when the next round of job cuts take place in the new year.
Really? NIce employers she's got I do hope she got that in writing?
Will sell my children...
as terrible as it sounds our pension will most likely be the sale of my fathers house/inlaws when they are no longer with us...and investing then.
Sue_W
It takes a lot to draw me into these debates, but I just wanted to say well done, the most rational discource this forum has seen for awhile IMHO.
.....will rarely respond to dispassionate discussion based purely on rational evidence, as all 'facts' are interpreted through an ideological filter.
Umfortunately evidenced by both sides and mirrored daily on here.
jimster - Member
I'm in the private sector, the wife's works in the Public sector, she's not striking but they have been told if you go out your position is in jeapordy when the next round of job cuts take place in the new year.Nothing like a good bit of black-mail to prevent the democratic to air your views
Is that even legal? Presumably she has told her union rep...?
Sue - I can understand completely where you're coming from.
But just as an example: If everyone is so short-staffed and over-worked,a work to rule would have a massive effect! Thus putting the unions in a much stronger position in negotiations.
I think the unions were far too keen to get out on strike. They need to be shrewd. The Tories will be. Unfortunately, I feel this is the opening salvo from them. I think they're settling in for the long haul. A prolonged battle. With who-knows-what ultimate aims. Depressing
Drac - Moderator
Midnight to midnight for us,
Mersey tunnels are closed tonight from 23.45, to 00,145 on friday, no mersey ferries or cross river buses, just 25 year old trains running through a 150 year old river tunnel.
SO there will be massive queues at runcorn bridge and m53/m56.
and i would be curious to know how thats not going to disrupt ordinry peeps lives,and work places and what its going to achieve.
I think the Tories are loving that the unions are going to strike. It's perfect ammunition for them. The media and politicians are whipping up a storm staying how the unions are not prepared to negotiate - getting the general public have anti-union and anti-public sector views (which seems to be working).
It gives them ammunition to privatize the NHS and schools. Which is already quietly happening, academy's etc. My missus is striking tomorrow, she doesn't want to, but feels the offer on the table isn't quite the deal the Tories are claiming it is - she has to work more hours, for less, pay in more (which she has no problem with), for less (which she has a problem with) etc etc.
She was also told the other day that if they did not accept the new terms, then their contract would be removed, terms re-written anyway, and they'd have to reapply for their jobs. Doesn't exactly sound like negotiation by the Tories to me.
Before all this kicked off, I have very little views on one party or another. They're all a bunch of lying, thieving bastards - but the Tories are beyond that. They literally make me feel sick having to listen to their lies when being interviewed on the TV.
The sooner this country gets used to being stagnant and realises wealth generation doesn't (relatively) live here any more the sooner we can all be happy playing around on bicycles. Happiness can be cheap. It's up to you.
A lot of people (some in power) need to look at where we are not where we were.
Oh and stop giving aid to India
Happiness can be cheap.
Indeed. Few go into the public sector to have an outrageous lifestyle (except politicians), they go in to do a service (teachers, nurses, doctors) - and we should support them. Not keep beating them down.
Oh and stop giving aids to India
I assume that was a typo and fixed it. Anything else would have been stupid
from a curiosity perspective, what would happen if the government forced the changes through? Is there a (legal) limit to how long a strike can last? obviously most people wouldn't have the money to keep it going particularly long, if its unpaid time?
obviously most people wouldn't have the money to keep it going particularly long, if its unpaid time?
Interesting question.
I wonder how long the country would keep going with all the schools shut?
jimster - Member
I'm in the private sector, the wife's works in the Public sector, she's not striking but they have been told if you go out your position is in jeapordy when the next round of job cuts take place in the new year.Nothing like a good bit of black-mail to prevent the democratic to air your views
Is that even legal? Presumably she has told her union rep...?
The union reps at her office are friendly with the management, so pointless really.
I genuinely wouldn't put it past this lot to be trying to provoke the kind of entrenched, and violent confrontation they had with the miners in the 80's. Lets not forget, it did them a lot of good! Though everyone else suffered
I could see them, after a suitable period of confrontation, pulling a stunt like finding every striker in breach of contract, sacking them, then offering them re-negotiated contracts on massively reduced terms.
All Tories are evil. FACT!
I could see them, after a suitable period of confrontation, pulling a stunt like finding every striker in breach of contract, sacking them, then offering them re-negotiated contracts on massively reduced terms.
Already being pulled - funny how it's not being reported by the media though.
She was also told the other day that if they did not accept the new terms, then their contract would be removed, terms re-written anyway, and they'd have to reapply for their jobs. Doesn't exactly sound like negotiation by the Tories to me.
5thElefant - MemberI'll work well into my 70s at the very least. Regardless of whether I have to. [b]What else is there to do?[/b]
on this site? IMO you are either Jedis understudy or lying or just lack imagination.
Hopefully, when the posturing is over, attention will come back to the "real" pension problem in the UK.
The UK has a workforce of 29 million people. Some 23 million of these are employed in the private sector. [b]Of these, only 3.2 million contribute to a workplace pension scheme that also includes a contribution from their employer. [/b]The number of people actively saving in company pension schemes in the private sector has almost halved since 1991. (source: BBC today).
Pension [b]education[/b] for the majority of the UK's workforce should be the government's priority.
True - but how many people can actually afford to put money into a pension? I know I can't.
With the petrol prices, energy companies hiking up rates etc. There's just nothing left to fund a pension at the end of the month.
Unfitgeezer, what charity is it, and how can we help to donate or support it?
I'm always surprised people think there is still such a thing as a job for life, and expect to stay in the same place. The thought of still working in my industry / role in 25 years time scares the hell out of me, I've already got a plan on where I want to be in 5-10 years.
On the pension side, I'm making arrangements so my income stream won't be based from a pension pot where the age I qualify or how it is invested is controlled by someone else. I want to have a degree of financial freedom (not that it will be a big pot of money) to decide when and how I use my money. A pension is great but other assets and financial vehicles are much better.
On the strike side - if changes need to be made then you have to accept them, look at those who have been made redundant, had a wage cut or seen their job roles change in the private sector.
You cheese is moving - find a new one!!!
On the strike side - if changes need to be made then you have to accept them
Clearly not.
On the strike side - if changes need to be made then you have to accept them,
By that logic we're right to strike. Thanks for your support.
On the strike side - if changes need to be made then you have to accept them
That is the most stupid thing I've read all week...
Prezet - well you raise a more real issue. But as The Guardian summarised the debate recently:
For the government, it is only fair that state-backed workers pay more contributions - an extra £3bn a year by 2014/2015 - and work longer in order to justify pensions that, unlike most of their private sector counterparts, have a defined benefit or guaranteed monthly payout at the end of them. They are, after all, underwritten by the taxpayer. For unions, it is unfair because a pension is a key reason for doing a job that can involve more mental and physical toil than the average private sector post (although experts claim that the real reason for decent public sector pensions is an historic wage disparity with the private sector). They also argue that the sheer scale of reform sought by the government is unjust: raising the retirement age in line with the state pension age; switching the rate at which benefits grow from the RPI rate of inflation to the less buoyant CPI; moving staff in the NHS, local government, civil service, schools and uniformed services from final salary schemes - where the payout is a proportion of the salary at the end of your career - to pensions schemes that payout a proportion of your average earnings over your whole career.
And for this we have strikes and posturing - while large proportions of the UK have no/little pension provision at all. This makes so much sense?!!!?
On the strike side - if changes need to be made then you have to accept them
You are David Cameron and I claim my 5 English pounds. Aren't you a bit busy for loitering on interweb Fora?
Many people seem to be thinking that if we strike it will provoke the tories into worse excess. They are already threatening us with this.
In my view, thats like rolling over and not fighting back against a bully in case he hits you harder.
The fact is that they want to destroy the public sector to provide easy profits for their own, and will do so whether we accept this deal or not.
Theres no point trying to appease them. They will be back next year with more demands.
And for this we have strikes and posturing - while large proportions of the UK have no/little pension provision at all. This makes so much sense?!!!?
That fact that I have no pension provision does not mean I want those in the public sector to have to go without too. I fully support their strikes - if I was in a similar position I would be defending my pension too. There seems to be a opinion in the private sector that "if I don't have it, neither should they".
I do see that we're going to have a major problem in a couple of decades in how the government plan to support the growing numbers of those claiming pensions from the state. But this is where legislation needs to be put into place to encourage private sector workers to invest in their own pension pots (or similar).
But people are hard pressed at the moment - with very little spare income to put aside for the future.
LOL! Changes happen but so many people seem reluctant to accept change. If you don't like it bugger off but don't hold the country to ransom.
The unions did that the British Leyland and look where that got them!!!
I'm losing a day's pay because of this so I can look after my kids cause the teachers are on strike.
I'm losing a day's pay because of this so I can look after my kids cause the teachers are on strike.
These things happen you just have to accept it.
I'm losing a day's pay because of this so I can look after my kids cause the teachers are on strike.
Why not offer to look after some of their classmates too, so that their parents can go in to work? Or, perhaps there's someone else with kids in their class who can look after your kids too, as they'd be off work anyway?
Putting money into pensions in the private sector? Hmmmmmmmm - The trouble is that companies seem to have grown rather accustomed to raiding their (not actually 'theirs' but yours) pension schemes. this generally isn't uncovered until its too late.
And Private Pensions? Well... where to start? How many 'reputable' banks and building Societies have been done for miss-selling (fraud by any other name). When I look at the cash I've paid into mine over the years, then look at what that would deliver me. There seems not much correlation. Someone's made alot of money in fees etc, that's for bloody sure
I'm going to be there, with a Legal Observer. We shall be carefully monitoring police activity*. 😀
*In the interests of Justice and Democracy, of course...
I reckon its great
for every day you strike, you're saving the taxpayer about 0.5% of your annual salary bill - about a billion pounds a day if all public sector workers were on strike.
take 4 days off on strike in the next fiscal year, and you'll be making the governments planned salary savings for them 😆
If you don't like it bugger off but don't hold the country to ransom.
You'd like 2 million of the people who run the education system, health care and other essential services to "bugger off"?
These things happen you just have to accept it.
I have and moved on.
We've all had to make sacrifices after the financial problems, this is just another facet of that. My wifes business failed due to the credit crunch and left us with a massive debt - did I go on strike cause it wasn't fair - no I've worked bloody hard to dig myself out of that hole.
I just find it funny that in the private sector things work so much differently than in the public sector where people expect so much more. I'm sure my company pension (which has changed three times in the last 8 years) is bugger all when compared to public sector but do I moan? no, I just get on with it and make my own plans.
ZuluEleven - PMSL!!!
I'm losing a day's pay because of this so I can look after my kids cause the teachers are on strike.
So what? Since when has this strike bin about you?
My wifes business failed due to the credit crunch
Don't want to sound harsh, but was it purely because of the credit crunch? Nothing to do with taking excessive financial risks? Lack of a contingency plan for such worst case scenario? I'd be interested to read why it failed actually.
This isn't about me so I'm not going to answer the question on why her business failed apart from to say a key customer pulled out of an agreement citing "difficult economic factors".
So, she din't have the mechanisms in place to prevent such a thing from happening, or sufficient funds to cover the loss, then?
Not meaning to be nasty at all, seriously, just trying to understand exactly how things happen, and how they can possibly be prevented.
"if I don't have it, neither should they"
- is pretty much the beginning and end of all the anti-Public Sector cant on this and the several other related threads. It's not a strong argument.
Elfinsaftey - This is proper OT so if you really want to know I'll email you if you provide your email address.
The unions did that the British Leyland and look where that got them!!!
Ah yes the demise of BL had absolutely nothing to do with the awful management of the company, it was all the unions fault 🙄