[Closed] The Empire STRIKES back...Who's striking then...

its your perception of what you think of me grantway but it seems pointless to keep saying I'm jealous how is that productive?

Presumably all the strikers here support the striking Greeks?

non sequitur

That's Latin not Greek...anyway, I wonder if the Greeks would agree with you.

The public sector doesn't contribute to tax

Yep. Striking for the second time this year even though at my great age the 'reforms' will not affect me. Why did the government say they couldn't do anything about the tax-payer funded £693000 pa pension of Sir Fred Goodwin when they see fit to ride roughshod over us?
Apropos of Danny Alexander, MP's pension deals and redundancy payoffs are fantastic, even after only one term of office.

You lot moan but at least your pension is contributed and you'll get a lump sum of some sort ! How the **ck is that fair?

Nope, I'm moaning because public sector workers/ordinary working people are being attacked by a Tory government.

I'm moaning because the Tories have transformed a crisis of the banks into a crisis of public spending.

I'm not a public sector worker, I'm not even on the cards.

Come and spend a week with me and then tell me that having teachers in their late 60's is a good idea.

Ditto nurses.
Ditto prison officers.
Ditto ambulance technicians or paramedics.
Ditto social workers

With age comes experience and knowledge

Not taking action myself purely by the coincidence that it happens to be a day off. I WILL be going down to the local ambulance station to distribute hot food and good wishes to the hard working crews who will be manning picket lines when they are not out responding to treble nines from the picket line.

What gets lost in this whole circular argument is that a pension deal is just part of the overall pay and remuneration package. If the country can't afford this package, then at least be honest and admit that what is mooted is a massive pay/remuneration cut for the nurses, teachers, social workers, healthcare assistants, paramedics, etc etc.

If the Tories came out and said "look, we just don't think your worth anywhere NEAR what you are getting now" to these people, then at least it would be honest. Not nice, but honest.

If the Tories came out and said "look, we just don't think your worth anywhere NEAR what you are getting now" to these people, then at least it would be honest. Not nice, but honest.

You want them to spell it out to you ?

They've already told you that they want you to live in fear :

[url= http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2011/jul/30/public-sector-jobs-oliver-letwin ]Public sector workers need 'discipline and fear', says Oliver Letwin[/url]

[i]"Oliver Letwin, the coalition's policy minister, has revealed the government's determination to instil "fear" among those working in the public sector"[/i]

How much nastier do you want them to get ?

anagallis_arvensis - Member
Big n daft or i could just carry on teaching and be progressively worse at it and spend a load of time off sick.

it's called performance management, it helps manage people, or does your comment explain why so few teachers get managed out

[b]Unfit you chose that i chose something else[/b]

errrr.... yes, you have no divine right to stand in front of a class, nor do you have a divine right to retire 7 years earlier than the people who pay the employer contributions

TroutWrestler - Member
The employer contributes 14.9%. This is the deal that I signed up to, and was part of my consideration when picking a career in which I knew I'd never get rich.

I thought you signed up for a job that paid relatively well, offered career progression if you wanted it, security if you wanted to sit in a particular job and a pension that you can't get anywhere else, you are can't be comparing yourself to a shelf stacker at Tesco just because the Tesco main board are considered "rich"

Without wishing to muddy the waters any more... Whenever I read these strike threads, I'm 'struck' by; how well the media campaign has been fought, how little solidarity there is left, the extent to which folks think of themselves rather than the greater good.

Even reading that, i can see how the wrong people will think it is written in support of their viewpoint.

Nope. There is a place and time to do so but now is not that time nor that place to do so.

🙄

Ditto nurses.
Ditto prison officers.
Ditto ambulance technicians or paramedics.
Ditto social workers

Ditto builders
Ditto roofers
Ditto scaffolders
Ditto anyone that digs for a job
Ditto etc

Big n daft those jobs rely on fitness not mental agility

CharlieMungus - Member
Without wishing to muddy the waters any more... Whenever I read these strike threads, I'm 'struck' by; how well the media campaign has been fought, how little solidarity there is left, the extent to which folks think of themselves rather than the greater good.

Even reading that, i can see how the wrong people will think it is written in support of their viewpoint.

The roads will be quiet on Wednesday. 🙂

anagallis_arvensis - Member
Big n daft those jobs rely on fitness not mental agility

Ditto accountants
ditto solicitors
Ditto quantity surveyors
Ditto etc

teaching is not the only profession where people need to be able to perform to retirement age

My wife is striking, but is actually planning on going into school to sort out a few things whilst it is empty!

I on the other hand will be looking after our kids, whose school is shut + couple of our friends kids.

nor do you have a divine right to retire 7 years earlier than the people who pay the employer contributions

Ah that'll be me then, no wait it can't be I work in the public sector so work and purchase everything tax free.

With age comes experience but it may not be good and knowledge if you can be bothered to learn

There that's now true.

Teachers Strike 30/11/11
5 posts & 5 voices | Started 58 minutes ago by 2twenty0 | Add this topic to your favorites (?)
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2twenty0 - Member
Ok, looking to ride on weds as have the day off. Turns out all my friends actually have jobs, so does anyone fancy hooking up for a ride in the North West, Peaks, degla etc? XC or DH not really bothered.

Posted 58 minutes ago # Report-Post

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/teachers-strike-301111#post-3220103

Oops

big_n_daft - Member

Ditto builders
Ditto roofers
Ditto scaffolders
Ditto anyone that digs for a job
Ditto etc

Ditto accountants
ditto solicitors
Ditto quantity surveyors
Ditto etc

teaching is not the only profession where people need to be able to perform to retirement age

I never had you down as a radical big and daft. Good for you for putting the case for a sensible retirement age across the board.

Were you influenced by the news of over one million unemployed young people ?

big_n_daft - Member
yes, you have no divine right to stand in front of a class, nor do you have a divine right to retire 7 years earlier than the people who pay the employer contributions

As a university lecturer it is very easy to find out what i earn, what my pension deal is, and what i do for that money. We are pretty transparent; that comes with providing a public service people want to consume. It also makes us an easy target. Perhaps you could even things up by telling us what you do, what you earn and what else makes up your renumeration package (apologies if i've missed it). Then the forum can pass judgement on whether you're worth it, maybe undermine what you do, suggest new working practices and a new pay package.

[i]" Perhaps you could even things up by telling us what you do, what you earn and what else makes up your renumeration package (apologies if i've missed it). Then the forum can pass judgement on whether you're worth it, maybe undermine what you do, suggest new working practices and a new pay package"[/i]

I started/manage a bike shop six years ago that is owned by a charity, we employ 3 adults with learning difficulties on a full time basis and 5 more adults come and gain work experience throughout the week.

I do this on my own I don't receive a pension nor can I afford one I earn under £30000 and have a family, my wife doesn't work as child care would be more than we earn! (she is a trained nurse)

There you go shout abuse at me all you like!

As I said strike away you get no sympathy from me...

I catch the train in in a morning with 2 fellsa that work for a Coastal Guarding Agency * neither are Union members, both are taking the day off to go sailing.

* do you really need to know what this agency is called

I started/manage a bike shop six years ago that is owned by a charity, we employ 3 adults with learning difficulties on a full time basis and 5 more adults come and gain work experience throughout the week.

How is this charity funded?

Adults get funding part of that funding goes to my wage building rent running the program etc the shop is in profit (just) and that goes back into running the charity else where.

These guys get a job rather than pushing trolly's around at tesco or asda

As I said strike away you get no sympathy from me...

It's not sympathy we want, it's solidarity. One day they will come for you.

Adults get funding

How much?

I'm not having a go BTW, sounds admirable, but what I'd like to check is whether there is a point at which the whole enterprise couldn't work without the public sector?

A small part of the hypocrisy of the "public sector is a cost not a revenue stream" argument is that hardly anyone with kids would be in a position to work in the private sector at all if it weren't for the fact that teachers took their kids off their hands all day.

And I'd also take a guess that your business couldn't run like it does without a bunch of public sector employees giving support to those adults with learning difficulties that you mention?

In all honesty, it seems to me like all you public sector workers are just pawns in Thatcherism Versus the Unions, Part 2, the sequel

Except this isn't the 1980's. Its way WAAAAAAAAAAY worse than that. So what's required is for everyone to stop acting like a bunch of *ing 4 year olds, sit down and sort it out!

Michael Gove was right yesterday. There are a load of Union Leaders itching for a scrap. But frankly, pointing that out is a bit *ing rich coming from this lot. The tory right are rubbing there hands with glee at the prospect of strikes too. I'm sure the rent-a-mob of the Lefty/Anarchist lot, and at the Met are looking forward to some good rucks.

Meanwhile, the rest of us will look on in disgust and despair as the economy disappears further down the tubes, while the 'leaders' of both parties make the most of their pathetic macho posturing and rabble-rousing

Its pathetic and Its short-sighted. The general public, who are in possession of a brain, will regard both sides as equally sad and misguided. So we won't be seeing this as a battle where you have to take sides. And in the end we all lose! There will be no winners. Oh... except Call-me-Dave and Mark bloody Serwotka. Their huge salaries and gold-plated pensions will be equally unaffected

The lot of you need your ****ing heads banging together!

The lot of you need your ****ing heads banging together!

Woahhh! There.

I agree the Unions and the Government need to sort it out but the Government refused to listen so sadly Union vote was for industrial action. I'd rather there was a discussion, who wouldn't out of the employees but you can't blame the members and workers when the head of the parties can't sort it over a cup of tea.

I do this on my own I don't receive a pension nor can I afford one I earn under £30000 and have a family, my wife doesn't work as child care would be more than we earn! (she is a trained nurse)

I'm sure you have your reason but if you earn less than £30k and no pension yet you believe the propaganda that nurses earn over £30k and with a pension. Why aren't you at home? It's a curious question so if you choose not to answer for personal reasons then I'm happy with that.

So binners, what do you think teachers should accept as their pay cut? and what should the Government be doing to show them that "we are all in this together?"

I don't know. Its not my job to come up with answers, is it?

I'm not taking sides here. That's my whole point. But, predictably, this seems to have been lost. Though I am sympathetic to the public sector workers situation

It seems to me, and I'm sure a lot of other people, that any pretense to negotiation has been replaced by childish bickering and macho posturing.

At some point the two sides are going to have to negotiate a settlement. There is no option to this. But in the meantime, the public, who lest we forget, have seen pay freezes, cuts, etc, have precious little appetite to watch the fight. Its not helping anyone

Id love to be at home! But sadly the mrs one that battle

Unlucky Unfit but sounds like you do an admirable job.

I don't know. Its not my job to come up with answers, is it?

Quite - that's the government's job. Trouble is, what's the question?

If the question is 'how do we navigate the country out of its current economic position' then the government's answer to this has led to tomorrow's strike.

The representatives of the people who will be directly affected by the government's chosen answer believe not only that the answer is wrong, but also that more sinister ideological motives lie behind it. Other than withdrawing labour en masse, what else could the unions calling the strike be expected to do to voice this disagreement?

Its not the unions' job to come up with answers either - its their job to try and ensure their members, who will have to keep doing their jobs long after the current cabinet retire to a life of comfort, are not shat on by a government borne of privilege (like all British governments before them) and immune to the personal consequences of the decisions it makes. They absolutely have to be up for a fight, because that's what they're faced with.

Everyone is quick to blame this government, looks to me that most people have forgotton that the last government also put us in debt!

Two war ships being built not ready for years and we have no defence! Thats not very clever is it ?

Its simply not fair to blame this government for the mess...

I am in no way a conservative just saying what I see!

Everyone is quick to blame this government, looks to me that most people have forgotton that the last government also put us in debt!

That would be the Government then.

I'll be honest with you: I despise the Tories. Always have. And it was entirely predictable that they were going to set out on this course. Its their default setting.

But the unions have been absolutely brainless! They're playing right into their hands.

This afternoon, they're going to announce the worst economic figures this country has ever seen. Achieved through monumentally stupid economic policies. Do you think the predominantly right-wing press will be focusing on this? Of course they bloody won't! They have a picture of some Bob Crow-a-like snarling all over their front pages

Wrong fight! Wrong time! Far too Knee-jerk. The unions need some cleverer people in charge who aren't trying to hark back to the 'glory days' of the seventies. Because every day this goes on,,the public's sympathy gets less and less

No-one is blaming the current government for the economic crisis. What they're being blamed for is their proposed solutions to it and the effect these proposals will have on so many people.

that would be the government then !

I'm not striking but will only be going to emergencies, guessing it's gonna be a mad night for us.
Hope the weather calms down a bit, take care out there tonight my north of the border peeps.
(I believe the action down south starts in the morning rather than midnight up here?)

Midnight to midnight for us,

Binners - whilst I agree that there is a lot of posturing on all sides which is not useful or productive in finding a solution, the importance of attitudianl differences is not to be underestimated. A central tenet in conservative political ideology is a focus on the role of the private sector and a belief in the reduction of the public sector. Although it is interesting to debate contrasting political philosophies (and I can usually do so for hours ...), when those ideaologies are backed by a position of power, they become more challenging. It is therefore very difficult to find a 'solution' (via discussion or other means) when you have people approaching the same situation from different, but strongly held, ideological attitudes. Attitudinal differences will rarely respond to dispassionate discussion based purely on rational evidence, as all 'facts' are interpreted through an ideological filter. So unfortunately, based on an understanding of human attitudes and their impact on behaviours, I don't think a consensus will be achieved.

I'm on strike on Wednesday for a few reasons. Mostly importantly to me is that it is the only opportunity to get my voice heard. And I think that is the case with many people. And it is in protest against a cumulative situation - 20% reduction in staff with no reduction in workload (resulting in working unpaid in the evening and weekends); cuts in services to the most vulnerable in society (and that hits home very personally as it has substantially reduced my brother's quality of life, which was pitiful enough at the best of times), while pay freezes and pension issues are effectly a significant salary cut.

Is going on strike the 'answer'? No. But then I don't think we will achieve an answer via any other means, so this is a way for me to express what I feel about the situation. I would prefer not to strike, I can't really afford to lose a days pay, and I have far too much work to do, but I joined a Union to provide a collective voice on my behalf, so I will support this action.

Good man. I'd heard dawn sarf it was 7am.
Fair play though, will be taking some provisions to the folk I'm guessing will be outside our hospital tonight..
Might need to audit our blanket store too..

Well said Sue, +1