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I only like one-pedal driving in slow traffic. I don't like it in open driving because I can't lift my foot off the pedal ever.
Is there anyway of telling how good the regeneration is on the Polestar or any vehicle?
molgripsFree Member
I only like one-pedal driving in slow traffic. I don’t like it in open driving because I can’t lift my foot off the pedal ever.
this, on my i4. I love the one pedal (B) mode when driving in town and in slow or stop start traffic. Once out of the 20 or 30 zones and more open road I use D mode and adaptive regeneration, so it uses the on board cameras and the nav gps to read the road, the traffic and the speed limit signs. It is pretty clever, will slow down for junctions, slip roads, roundabouts, slow traffic and speed limit reductions without much, if any, need to touch the brake pedal, but will coast freely with foot off the accelerator when on the open road.
Yes, one pedal is good in traffic, but I don't like it anywhere else.
The auto mode is decent though, where it uses the radar plus sat nav info to vary the regen upon lift of the accelerator according to conditions, so it will vary from coasting with no regen at all, to full regen depending on what's going on around it/the road ahead.
At the end of the day though, it doesn't seem to make any difference to efficiency which regen mode you use, it's just different preferences for how the car drives*
*assuming that pressing the brake pedal also uses regen ahead of friction brakes
Mine has the flappy paddles. TBH i dont use them since a colleague mentioned he got way better range setting it to auto regen (Like mentioned earlier). Before it was a case of it either slowing the car down way to much with regen and losing any momentum or not slowing it down enough and having to use the brakes all the time.
Now it uses the sat nav system, the front cameras etc and just seems to know whats going on. As per my colleague said, it now seem to float along on the motorway using much more momentum and around town it seems to know exactly when to use more regen on some junctions but not others. Its witchcraft.
Superscale 20 i suppose the floating graphic which states the level of regen on the dashboard is an indication. Basically if its slowing me down hard or i am braking hard the level shoots up. If im coasting it doesnt register, but imo on a 2t+ car momentum could be worth more than regen energy.
. I don’t like it in open driving because I can’t lift my foot off the pedal ever.
I’ve massively adapted my driving now (from how i drove in the Octavia)
It goes:
one pedal drive ALL the time, and adaptive cruise control 90% of the time..
I’ll use ACC as soon as i hit motorways, and use it a LOT around town - great for traffic and such.
I flick ACC on and off kinda like i changed gears in the Octavia!
And to change the setting of one pedal drive/regen in the polestar is done in the menu on the screen - you don’t do it on the ‘fly’ like some other cars.
DrP
I prefer OPD on all the time, but my driving is about 90% single lane a and b roads, 10% town. Just feels natural for me now.
Slight change of subject: just back from a shopping park and MrsSB pointed out a car in a charging space.
She asked how did it work if you parked in the space and plugged in but didn't come back for, say, 4 hours.
Is there generally a time limit on these spaces?
Is there generally a time limit on these spaces?
It depends on the charger. Most tesla charger that I have used (only ones in motorway services so far) charge a idle fee of something like a pound per minute, if your car is connected to the charger but not actually charging. I think you get 5 minutes grace after charging stops to move the car before the idle charges start to acrue. I think the idle charges only apply if the supercharger station is 50% or more occupied.
At some other chargers there is no charge for staying in the space even if your car has stopped charging.
Essentially it varies from place to place.
Slight change of subject: just back from a shopping park and MrsSB pointed out a car in a charging space.
She asked how did it work if you parked in the space and plugged in but didn’t come back for, say, 4 hours.
Is there generally a time limit on these spaces?
yes, rule of thumb, fast chargers 1hr, slower A/c chargers 4hrs before overstay fees kick in. An added bonus can be that some places give free parking if you are charging so I will plug in and use the parking fee saved to cover the charging cost and essentially get a free top up.
I only like one-pedal driving in slow traffic. I don’t like it in open driving because I can’t lift my foot off the pedal ever.
In open driving my car is mostly in some form of ADAS so I can relax my foot a bit. I figure that its probably safer than me.
The Corsa e has developed a problem.
The HVAC has decided not to work. Displays and controls work but no heat or air is blown through the vents.
I have read a good look at the fuses and they are all ok. The HVAC system seems to try to work but fails to push the air. I'll guess something but has gone wrong at the fan?. No leaks or anything untoward is wrong in the engine bay. Radiator fan spins when required.
I haven't plugged in an obd2 reader yet. I'll try that tomorrow.
Me thinks all the cash saved from owning a nice EV is going to be absorbed by the repairs dept?!
Rest of the car is working.
The Ioniq is fine, fingers crossed, no issues with 3 times the mileage of the Corsa e.
Checked if anything is blocking the airways?
It seems as if I can hear a switch when I call for heat from the heating controls then nowt happens. I don't think it's a blockage unless a big squirrel has lodged it self in the air intake?
The other half said that it just stopped working. She enjoyed pre heating and cooling the car and I wonder if the additional stress of this process speeds up the demise off the HVAC system?
I'll take another look at it tomorrow and check the filters and other accessible stuff.
Doubt it will have stressed it. EV HVAC’s vary a little, depending on heat pumps but the bulk of the power is provided by a big PTC (essentially a hairdryer), hence why they use so much power. Sounds like the fan may have stopped/gone/be having a little rest.
On my Enyaq, I shift into drive twice - first one tells me regen is set to automatic and I'm not sure it does anything. So I shift again and it seems to be far more aggressive - I see the blue regen bar showing far more frequently so I'm assuming it is doing much more of that.
I do tend to be able to do 1 pedal driving for vast majority of my driving, I don't have adaptive cruise control but I suspect I'd be using that constantly if I did.
However, change in weather and a far busier company car park means my charging isn't quite as simple as it was...but a 4 hour bike ride of an evening isn't a bad thing!
Next question:
What are your thoughts regarding what happens when a battery runs out of warranty.
Obvs it will keep on working but what if there's an issue big enough to require a new battery.
This cost could obviously be huge and that might lead to the whole car being scrapped.
If that's the case it might lead people to think that EVs are effectively disposable items with very little value after the 8/10 year warranty runs out.
If I bought a car it would be 2-3 years old and have an 8 year warranty.
If I'm faced with potentially a bill for maybe £30-40k after 8 years of ownership then I'm less than keen to enter that ownership experience!
This would affect used prices as well.
I reckon the battery refurbishment industry will be up and running by 2030. Repairs will hopefully be relatively cheap. I'd expect a higher energy density battery to be available as well, so an improved range.
There are an awful lot of ifs in that post Sharkbait. I'm with retrorick, there would be many more options in 8 years time. I'd also take confidence in all those long warranty periods being offered. Clearly manufacturers have evidence of long battery life.
@retrorick I don't think the symptoms are quite right, but the AC compressors on Corsas/208s are a known weak point.
I don't think it'll be 30-40k to replace/repair a battery out of warranty, I expect there will be a 3rd party industry replacing cells, and/or using second hand entire batteries from crashed cars, much like major components from ice cars are harvested from crashed cars and used to keep cars on the road for much less than buying a new engine/gearbox etc from a main dealer.
Just doing a quick Google suggests an entire new battery for my car would be about 10k now, a lot of money but not 30-40k
I think a brand new engine for my previous ice car would have been soemthing like 25k from a main dealer, but nobody's going to pay that if they need a new engine out of warranty, they'll just find an engine from a scrapped car for 5 to 10k. I think It's a similar cost for the dct gearbox from a dealer.
I’m faced with this battery decision as our Model S battery will coming out of warranty in 2025. We have had it around 3 years now. It charges to 80% on a home charger for 99% of the driving we do and I don’t think we have seen any significant reduction in range in that time. Has covered around 140k and have replaced some suspension parts in the last year and do need to finally do the back brakes soon too.
My gut instinct is to just keep it. It’s paid off and the value has dropped since we bought it too. Running cost compared to a diesel is great. We would only replace it with another electric car anyway and we love the space in it, huge boot for the dogs/bales of hay/shavings etc.
Spend what we would on replacing it on solar and battery and then see if we can make further savings that way
timmys
Full Member
@retrorick I don’t think the symptoms are quite right, but the AC compressors on Corsas/208s are a known weak point.
I had read something about this a while back. Hoping I would be lucky and avoid the problem! I will report back with updates when I have more answers.
If that’s the case it might lead people to think that EVs are effectively disposable items with very little value after the 8/10 year warranty runs out.
There is an independant industry around fixing tired Leafs when their batteries start to fail. Why wouldn't this expand to fit other EV's?
It's a future proof version of car spannering with cleaner hands.
Crazy discounts on pre-registered i-Pace down from ~£75k to ~£43k
I don't think anyone will buy a brand new battery frim the dealer if they get a fault. There are already businesses refurbishing batteries by replacing the failed cells for older models e.g. Leafs. There are enough cells around from crashed cars to support this as the failure rate is pretty low. It will be more expensive with other makes of course as they have more complex batteries and coolant circuitry, but the idea is the same. The battery drops out from under the car then you can fix it on a bench.
The other thing to consider is that with a repaired battery an EV could be nearly new; wheras ICEs can have engine parts failing left and right (check the threads on here or any other forum). I think that lack of desirability and interior wear will be the most likely things to eventually scrap your EV.
What are your thoughts regarding what happens when a battery runs out of warranty.
Obvs it will keep on working but what if there’s an issue big enough to require a new battery.
This cost could obviously be huge and that might lead to the whole car being scrapped.
If that’s the case it might lead people to think that EVs are effectively disposable items with very little value after the 8/10 year warranty runs out
Pretty big ‘if’ there. ‘Disposable’ is perhaps a bit hyperbolic as there’d be some scrap value in the vehicle if it suffers a too expensive to repair problem.
@molgrips describes things well I think. And the experience @bruk has fits with most of the Tesla fleet experience. Sure, capacity reduces, but not as much as manufacturers expected. The things just keep on going. Though mechanical bits will wear out in time.
I’d be unsurprised if they ended up with greater longevity than modern ICEs. More frequent charging to offset reducing battery capacity isn’t too troubling. And total battery pack failure seems uncommon. Maybe less common than head gasket/turbo/engine/gearbox failures? Albeit more to fix.
there would be many more options in 8 years time.
I agree, but as has already been said, some people are already over the milage limit or getting close to the warranty time limit.
So, as a future owner, I'm interested in how the manufacturers are planning on handling replacing/repairing battery packs.
Yes there are third party repairers but moving ahead, as more people see an opportunity, are these repair shops going to be regulated?
You can't compare an ICE repair with a battery back repair as the latter has a greater chance of bursting into flames all on its own.
My biggest concern as a potential buyer of a used EV is whether values will plummet once out of warranty, which is a possibility unless the manufacturers stand behind their tech. Maybe some have a published plan already, but the manufacturer I'm interim right now does not seem to.
..... And how are insurance companies going to view vehicles that have had a battery transplant from a scrapped car?
Not looking for problems, I'm looking for some reassurance!
I'd like to buy a 2 year old car now and know that it's still going to have a resale value in 10 years time.
And how are insurance companies going to view vehicles that have had a battery transplant from a scrapped car?
I shouldn't think they care as long as it passes an mot, and has no undeclared modifications from the manufacturers standard
I’d like to buy a 2 year old car now and know that it’s still going to have a resale value in 10 years time
I've done what you're thinking about doing, bought a 2 year old ev with the intention of keeping it long term, 8 to 10 years, who knows how it will pan out, but my gut feel is that it will be OK.
One of the things which helped tip the balance for me to take the plunge into EV ownership is the many videos on YouTube with huge mileage Teslas.
There's plenty around now with 150K + miles of largely trouble free motoring. One I saw recently had a 3 with 200K miles and the guy had almost exclusively hammered the charge into the battery with supercharger. The battery should be pretty trashed but upon testing the degradation was quite minimal really, down to 88% or so, I don't remember exactly.
Three weeks in, I absolutely love driving this car! I'm finding myself driving around with no radio on, just enjoying the lovely quietness of it. The effortless wafting torque and rapid acceleration is rather nice too.
I'm almost exclusively using a 7kw charger (free use at the office), so my battery gets charged to 100% over about 5 hours during the day - car is 7 months old and done about 6.3k miles.
Think I've used a fast charger (22kw) about 5 times and only charged to 80% using that.
My thinking is the 7kw is a slow charge so the battery doesn't get as warm so the degradation isn't the same and is far slower.
Selfishly, the car is a lease so will be handed back after 3 years, so I'm not losing sleep over it, but at the same time, I'm not wanting to deliberately ruin the battery.
I have just started the purchasing process for my first ever new car (46 and only ever bought used). A VW buzz GTX. I’ll let you all know how it goes!
what configuration did you go for ?
I’ve got a 6 seat , 86 kWh, LWB on order . Has your dealer given any indication to delivery dates yet ?
7 seater GTX in silver, I have 3 kids and often a mother in law… didn’t seem to be that many options. A guy from the VW main office called me to check my interest and said that my local dealer would call me soon. He seemed to think it’d be a couple of months.
currently a year and a bit into an i4 as a salary sacrifice lease car. Absolutely love it. When it comes for replacement in 3 years I may be financing myself as hopefully will be retired. An ID Buzz, second hand and about a year old, is top of my current wish list.
Will be just me, wife and dog most of the time, but the concept of lots of internal bike space, rather than a towbar rack, is attractive, assuming it is actually practical to do that with seats down.
Just over a year in my Kia EV6 and still love it. No problems so far and it's lovely to drive.
The majority of charging is done overnight at home on the Intelligent Octopus Go tariff with the odd public charging session when on long trips. Just over 10,000 miles and total charging cost has been £203 home charging and £120 public charging.
First service was performed by the local Kia dealer last week. It took them about 35 minutes, and that included washing and vacuuming the car and taking a video showing me the underneath of the car!
7 seater GTX in silver, I have 3 kids and often a mother in law… didn’t seem to be that many options. A guy from the VW main office called me to check my interest and said that my local dealer would call me soon. He seemed to think it’d be a couple of months.
I've gone for the same colour. Currently have a nuclear yellow ( as the kids call it) , so wanted something a bit tamer this time. The other GTX colours didn't really do it for me, but having seen the Silver in the flesh it really looks nice.
VW dealers vary massively for customer service, so I'd be pro-active if you haven't heard from them soon. Our local(ish) commercial one was absolutely crap in getting back to me when I was buying my current vehicle , so I ended up buying one from 170 miles away at a dealer who was actually interested in selling you something. I have the GTX on order through one of the VW car dealers not too far from home. I've also used them when I had an issue with seat airbags and the current problem with the peeling vegan steering wheel which is being replaced with a proper leather one this week. Just hope VW spec the new ones with a real leather steering wheel ( or at least a better synthetic one). Apart from that , no other issues with it, and the GTX should improve that experience.
Think I’ve used a fast charger (22kw) about 5 times and only charged to 80% using that.
22kW isn't a fast charger. It'll still be an AC supply, so limited by whatever size inverter is installed in your vehicle (most likely 7 or 11kW)
22kW isn’t a fast charger
It is in terms of how chargers are classified (fast is 7-22kW)
I'll be interested to hear what you think of the Smart #1 @shinton as it's still on my list of possible options for the next car. Mind you I've been looking at EVs for months and still keep oscillating between various interesting newer models, "just get a Tesla as at least they bloody work" and "just keep my current 140k mile ICE car running a bit longer and see what happens", with the last option currently in pole position.
Lots of cars look interesting on paper and get glowing reviews, but then when you check the owner's forums they start to look like a nightmare. Obviously people tend to report the problems and happy drivers don't tend to post, but the EX30, for example seems to have truly awful software and the Smart is not without its issues. Most outrageous one I've seen so far is an owner claiming that they can't get a cracked windscreen fixed as Autoglass won't touch it because the glass roof needs to be removed to replace the windscreen and even the local dealer won't do that. Can't believe that's really true to be honest. Would any manufacturer really be allowed to release a car where you couldn't replace the windscreen?
What are your thoughts regarding what happens when a battery runs out of warranty.
Obvs it will keep on working but what if there’s an issue big enough to require a new battery.
This cost could obviously be huge and that might lead to the whole car being scrapped.
Can't say I've given it much thought - for me it would be similar to worrying about if an ICE engine blew up, can happen but unlikely. A battery will continue to slowly degrade and may get to the point it's had so many charging cycles it's degraded to the point it's no longer fit for purpose but that figure is generally very high for current EV batteries and should only improve with new tech. I only charge my EV every week or two as I don't do many miles, if I was doing a lot of miles and charging to 100% every night I'd probably lease in order to take battery degradation concerns out of the equation.
If that’s the case it might lead people to think that EVs are effectively disposable items with very little value after the 8/10 year warranty runs out.
It's a bit early to say what the "battery degradation will likely mean range is reduced to such an extent the car is essentially scrap" figure is but it will be well in excess of 10 years (there's already Tesla Model S's older than that with perfectly usable batteries). I'd guess 15-20 years will be more like the age current EV batteries will get to the point they're near useless in terms of being able to hold charge and as others have said who know what tech will exist then to regen them or if governments will offer subsided replacement schemes etc.
If I bought a car it would be 2-3 years old and have an 8 year warranty.
If I’m faced with potentially a bill for maybe £30-40k after 8 years of ownership then I’m less than keen to enter that ownership experience!
That's pretty much my situation (bought a 2 year old Polestar 2 that comes with an 8 year battery warranty). I'm not planning to change it at or before 8 years, how long I keep it will depend on my future requirements, how many general issues I end up having with it and the state of my finances. All of these are the same reasons I've changed previous ICE cars (the last two of which I owned were both replaced after 10 years).
A replacement battery is also unlikely to be £30-40k unless it's a £100k+ purchase cost car whereby the manufacturer is going to charge a premium just because they can. A Tesla Model 3 replacement is supposedly around £15k inc. labour.
As I said, for me battery degradation/failure isn't really a concern (any more than say my house roof failing through age and not being covered by insurance) but if it is for you then you really need to look at leasing or self-insuring (e.g. putting money aside into an investment account that factors in the car being near worthless in x number of years and need replacing).
I’ll be interested to hear what you think of the Smart #1
Our PS2 was whipped back off us by wife’s redundancy (salary sacrifice car) so we’re hunting around. Test drove a Smart#1 at the weekend and it’s the first car I’ve actually really liked since saying byebye to the PS. My employer has said they’ll do me a ss on an electric so we’re hovering on pushing the button on a Brabus.
I think the software will take some getting used to. Android auto was pretty easy on the PS. But with wireless CarPlay, I’m not massively bothered. Voice recognition was really good and responsive. No lag at all.
Lack of boot space will take some getting used to. But overall, it felt really nice inside.
Brabus looks a beast but with no upgraded suspension over the base model I'm not sure I could trust myself. Hopefully test driving one on Thursday @roverpig and on Friday Genesis are bringing over a GV60 to the house for me to test.
Brabus looks a beast but with no upgraded suspension over the base model I’m not sure I could trust myself.
you’d imagine it was me and not Mrs dd that plumped for the Brabus. We test drove the Premium and that was fine for me. Someone didn’t like the white trim inside! Ffs.
I won’t be driving the Brabus anywhere near as intended. The 4WD will be nice. But it’s not really set up as a performance car, is it?
Thanks both,
Yes, I looked at the Brabus but all it seems to offer is a bit less range and some bonkers acceleration. The latter sounds like fun but I know that in practice that would just get me into trouble and the standard model is no slouch. Maybe it would cope better with an Aberdeenshire winter (maybe) but the Premium is a chunk cheaper and I suspect the extra range may prove more useful than the extra motor. I'm with your wife though @deadlydarcy I'm not sure about the white interior either 🙂 A bit first generation ipod for me.
on Friday Genesis are bringing over a GV60 to the house for me to test.
If it’s one with the camera digital door mirrors, don’t be put off. They are awful. The old fashioned glass mirrors are far superior in every way.
The base model Premium is the pick of the bunch with the best range and best ride quality and is plenty quick enough. If I was getting another i’d upgrade to the Nappa leather interior and the sunroof.
Just had a test drive in a VW ID7 Tourer... Very impressed with it!
Anybody here own one?
What are we typically seeing for real world ranges vs claimed ranges for VW group cars on the whole?
for me it would be similar to worrying about if an ICE engine blew up, can happen but unlikely
This. The engine on my 11 year old Mercedes could explode tomorrow. Would I tow it to the main dealer and ask for a new engine? Of course not. That would probably be £20 grand, 2.5x its market value. I'd have an independent refurbish it* or get one from eBay for .. checking... £2k.
the latter has a greater chance of bursting into flames all on its own.
Does it? Is it a greater chance than a tank of petrol? Serious question.
And how are insurance companies going to view vehicles that have had a battery transplant from a scrapped car?
They will have to respond. If we are all forced to buy EVs because the supply of new ICEs is either banned or dries up, then there must be a solution as most people cannot afford to scrap £10k cars or pay huge insurance premiums. If that were the case, then motoring would go back to being only for rich people (some might say this was no bad thing). But clearly we are not ready for that. This is a situation where the market would probably deliver - we would never end up with a huge pile of repairable cars and large ready market of people with no car who want one...
* who am I kidding? It'd be on the bench in my garage for two months...
I’d like to buy a 2 year old car now and know that it’s still going to have a resale value in 10 years time.
How much are 12 year old ICE cars worth now? Not a fat lot. How much are you going to save on fuel in that 10 years? Probably more than the difference even if your EV were worth nothing. We are saving about a grand a year on fuel even with a modest commute. If your ICE were worth £3k at 12 years old and your EV nothing, you are still £7k ahead.
22kW isn’t a fast charger
According to how these things are classified (as opposed to the ordinary language meaning, which moves with the times) 22kW is "fast", anything above that being "rapid" or "ultra rapid".
Does it? Is it a greater chance than a tank of petrol? Serious question.
There are billions of tanks of petrol sat around (think of every engine still in use.... Not just vehicles) and bursting into flames is extremely rare.
Batteries, on the other hand, do have a bit of a rep for combustion and that's before some back street garage has "repaired" them!
So I'd say the answer is yes!
Batteries, on the other hand, do have a bit of a rep for combustion
Got any real stats though? There is a huge amount of disinformation on this, most of it is bollocks spouted by angry and idiotic petrol headed Americans.
The Swedish Civil Contingencies Agency (MSB) reported 23 fires in 611,000 EVs during 2022, or 0.004 per cent in a year, which makes it 20 times less likely to happen than ICE car fires, which burned 3,400 times in 4.4 million cars, or 0.08 per cent.
There aren't many detailed studies into ev fires but the Swedish one mentioned above was apparently thorough and came to the conclusion that ICE vehicles are catching fire much more than EVs are, but that EV fires can be harder to manage. Also, the EV fleet in that survey is likely to be newer and therefore probably better maintained than the ICE fleet so there's still the question of what happens to those stats when Bob's Back Street garage has soldered in a new cell from AliExpress
loving my EV that I got in March so much that we are considering chopping in my wife’s 9 year old panda for a 500e. Her car is at that stage of bills coming in the near future so either stick with it and put the money in as the bills come in or go for the EV. She spends about €120 a month on petrol and this would be about €20 in electricity freeing up €100 towards the monthly and no bills for a few years. Was mooching at a dealer today who said they have pre registered 2023 cars sitting with zero miles on them if I was interested!!! Looks like they are really not shifting them so might get a good deal. TBH as my wife sees cars as a tool/mobile bin and not a luxury, dings every car and eats clutches etc so we have always kept away from new/nearly new cars but as EVs are so easy to drive I think it would actually help. Be interesting to see what sort of deal the garage come back with…..and more importantly, what her insurance company say.
@mboy I have a 2 week old id7 tourer (base model). It’s awesome. It’s done approx 1000 miles and averaged 3.8mi/kWh. 500 miles of that has been in dark/rain across from Chester to Ashton under lyne in rush hour - drive there was about 3.6, return journeys around 5pm in the light and not rain were up to about 4.5.
I hoped I’d get 300 miles to a full charge on average which so far seems realistic.
I’d guess 15-20 years will be more like the age current EV batteries will get to the point they’re near useless in terms of being able to hold charge and as others have said who know what tech will exist then to regen them or if governments will offer subsided replacement schemes etc.
But it seems that many batteries are designed *not* to be easily replaced or upgraded.
It seems to me that having an easily upgraded battery would be sensible and desirable.
But it seems that many batteries are designed *not* to be easily replaced or upgraded.
Really? I have seen a few tear downs, they don't seem particularly difficult. What makes you think they are specifically designed against that? I'm pretty sure most manufacturers realise they'd be shooting themselves in the foot big-time if in 10 years' time they get a reputation for being un-repairable. That would destroy their rep in a way they would never recover from.
"But it seems that many batteries are designed *not* to be easily replaced or upgraded. It seems to me that having an easily upgraded battery would be sensible and desirable."
Not sure that is much different from an engine, no? Though as I understand it the battery is more structural in some vehicles.
In terms of repairability over the longer term, I'd be more concerned about the amount of electronics in the car. Which isn't now that different between an EV and an ICE.
Car design has been a nightmare for a while now, used to be designed more around ease of maintenance, but now it's ease of manufacture, a few manufacturers also tend to design out the ability for third parties to maintain their vehicles, with technology advancing it'll not get any better in this area i fear.
As for EVs, they are the future, technology is advancing in battery, car and computing areas, i dare say the EVs of today will be outdated in 10 years, so anyone buying an EV thinking in 10 years it'll be worth much is not going to fair well i think, but that's the same with ICE now, when it comes to owning cars, we just spend x amount each year and will need to factor that in for future purchases, and just suck up amortisation on our purchases.
The amount of electronics is about the same in ICE and EV, however EVs have the inverter and associated electrics under the bonnet. However there is very little heat and vibration under there. I drove 2hrs on windy roads, then when I stopped I put my hand on the inverter engine and it was barely lukewarm. Compare that to the heat and vibration your ICE electronics have to put up with.
The battery can be structural but that doesn't mean it's part of the chassis itself, it's just a chassis member - and it can be removed. How do you think they get it in there?
This is a complete Kia EV6 77.4kWh battery listed on eBay (for £3.5k) alongside all the other car parts for everything under the sun. Looks like it's just dropped out from underneath, you can see the fixings around the edge.
A replacement engine for my Merc is £2k many years older than this battery, and considerably more work to replace. Thinking about it, someone needs to come out with a way to make this into a home battery because that's vastly cheaper than what's on offer!
used to be designed more around ease of maintenance
I'm guessing you didn't own (and try to work on) an Alfa Romeo in the 80s.!
I’m guessing you didn’t own (and try to work on) an Alfa Romeo in the 80s.!
hah yes - a friend had an Arna back in the day (a joint thing with Alfa and Datsun IIRC). In-board disk brakes and a weird upside-down engine that made getting to the spark plugs almost impossible.
But it seems that many batteries are designed *not* to be easily replaced or upgraded.
My ID3 had battery module 10 replaced, so I would assume that the VW MEB platform does have replaceable battery sections. possibly 10 or more. The only downside was it had to go to a main dealer in Leeds (rather than the local skipton one)
anyone buying an EV thinking in 10 years it’ll be worth much is not going to fair well i think, but that’s the same with ICE now
Not always the case.
Test drove a new Model 3 and was massively impressed. Man maths sums reckon I'd save near on £150 a month on fuel costs, so off to look at a 2020 Dual Motor with the sport wheels this morning. Monster depreciation has happened and it's a lot of car for 24k
a 2020 Dual Motor with the sport wheels this morning.
Lease company gave me a purchase price of £20k on my 2021 Model 3 LR with enhanced autopilot, so £24k is a rip-off. You can pay Tesla £1000 to get the performance upgrade on a dual-motor, so unless you're particularly tempted by giant wheels this is the easiest and cheapest way.
Try to find a 2021 or newer if you can, as they have numerous improvements over the previous generation including the heat pump. The sweet spot would be a late 2022, as this gets the AMD Ryzen infotainment but keeps ultrasonic parking sensors.
Got the price wrong it's 22k, it's a LR with the optional sport wheels and grey paint. Budget will stretch to a 21 car, but with 45k+ miles and I'd rather have the lower mileage as this one is 25k. Late 22 cars are way out of my budget
I would much rather have a more modern car with significant upgraded features than a lower milage one. In ten years' time the difference between a 120k car and a 140k car will be insignificant but you'll have had the better features for all that time and still have them.
If the 2020 and 2021 cars are physically the same then you could go by mileage. But the 2021 is significantly better with improved interior, soundproofing (eg double pane front windows), efficiency, and the heat pump makes a huge difference in the winter.
So what's the going rate per month on salary sacrifice these days - seems £400 plus on ours at work, and can't be justified as I cycle to work. I am looking to spend £30-£40k on a van next year that I will keep for leisure - the equivalent electric version is much cheaper but range is useless - 120 mile - won't work to get us into Wales over big hills.
Big hills don't make a lot of difference to EV range. And you know, you can always stop and recharge. But yes, £40k is a hell of a lot of money for a vehicle with 120 mile range. I'd rather have a car with a bike rack tbh but that's another argument.
So what’s the going rate per month on salary sacrifice these days – seems £400 plus on ours at work
I’m not sure what you mean? Salary sacrifice will be a % off whatever the lease price is. Mrs dd’s last employer used Octopus to run the scheme as it was hundreds of cars. It was handy in that insurance, maintenance, tyres etc was included in one monthly fee. My present employer is doing a straight 1 + 36 and administering it for employees through HR/accountant (we’re an SME so not that many cars to administer). The savings are quite a bit better without outsourcing it to a 3rd party provider.
i agree with molgrips. £30-40k for 120 miles is a bit rubbish.
Just been looking at teh smart Brabus stats...
3.7 sec 0-60.. faster than my P2 as it looks lighter!
It makes me chuckle that a Smart car is faster (accelerating) than the entry level (£90k) , and POSSIBLY the next level Porche Taycan!!!
DrP