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the difference in aero between suv-shaped and not can be surprisingly small. The range on the model 3 and model y is almost identical (<5% less on the model y from memory).
It's 20% in the Hyundai case. The Model Y is barely an SUV, to be fair.
there are ways of doing aero without it looking gopping.
There are ways of making things more or less aero but cross-sectional area is key. The drag coefficient has to be multiplied by the frontal cross-section, in the case of cars, so a lower car with a higher Cd could actually be more aero than an SUV shape.
he styling of the Ioniq 6 is subordinate to the fact it’s actually designed to be good at what it does, rather than appeal to fashion. In other words, it’s aero
yes but - it looks awful in pictures and even worse in person. theres one appeared in the village and its gopping - As slab points out there are ways and means to do it while retaining looks.
that said as far as ugly sticks go - this matches quite well saw one last night in a taxi rank in stravanger last night for the first time.
Looks fine to me but I've not seen one in real life. I have seen EV6s though and they look awful.
If you've ever been to Korea you'll get it. They love to copy other brands and make vague facsimiles.
Look at the Ioniq 6 and tell me that's not a Porsche ripoff. Yes it's bad, yes it looks like it's been beaten with the ugly stick but remember this is the nation that brought us the SsanYong Rexton. Usually they keep these things to themselves but on this occasion they've obviously shared.
Ugly as it is though, it's got potential, you could really pretty that up with a decent body kit.
Look at the Ioniq 6 and tell me that’s not a Porsche ripoff.
It's not a Porsche rip-off.
It's a Mercedes CLS rip-off.
you could really pretty that up with a decent body kit.
Wh.. I.. a what?
Ugly as it is though, it’s got potential, you could really pretty that up with a decent body kit.
Better off putting a brown paper bag over your head.
Its the automotive equivalent of a 10 pinter that one
And you lot like the Kia? You're all nuts.
Has anybody ordered one of these yet?
https://www.motor1.com/reviews/674968/2024-rolls-royce-spectre-first-drive/
Nah. Read the review in Wired. Not my cup of tea.
https://www.wired.com/review/review-rolls-royce-spectre/
Doing some sums. Given that we'd borrow money to replace the EV, it works out that I could buy a £10k EV for the same monthly outlay as a £5k ICE. And get a much newer and more modern vehicle in the process.
And you lot like the Kia? You’re all nuts
If we are talking Kia EV6 ... It tows, it has decent range and it just about ticks most of the practical boxes. I'd be sat in it I don't need to worry about the outside appearance.
Shame it's £700/month on PCP even with a large deposit when I checked a few weeks back. Can't make those numbers work Vs. Owning the current car outright and there being nothing wrong with it.I want a normal family car with a 300 mile ish range that can tow. In EV terms there’s not the right second hand supply yet.
I think this cost element may also be where some of the tail off in demand is coming from that came up a page or two ago. A new Kia EV is nice ICE money and in use terms it's still a compromise. Some people don't have that money to spend, some have other priorities and some can't get the function and we need some trickle of the larger more capable stuff into the second hand space.
I want a normal family car with a 300 mile ish range that can tow. In EV terms there’s not the right second hand supply yet
Same. EV6s and Ioniq 5s are about all there is if you want to tow a caravan, or you could squeeze in a VW/Skoda if your van is light enough but they're the same price anyway. For the monthly outlay of both our cars we could afford one of those cars right now, but that's a hell of a liability to take on.
Given that we could wait a couple of years and pick up the same vehicle for far less, it makes sense to wait despite the hype and the fact I really want one.
But, given that the EV6 and Ioniq 5 are essentially the same car, I'd have the Hyundai any day 🙂
horses for courses!! My father in law has an inoq 5 - to me it's too 'spaceshippy' inside..
Plus.. I'm jsut a loon for the EV6 GT lime acccents and uber powah!!!
Anyway...enough dreaming...sulks back to the leaf!
DrP
Has anyone used the Tesla 'open for all' chargers with a non Tesla car?
Can you turn up and pay with a debit card without an app and pay the non member/owner prices?
I've got the option to use some this weekend and hopefully take advantage of the cheaper than other fast charger prices.
Thanks for any info.
I mean… i turned up to the rack of tesla chargers at Denby vineyard and just plugged my leaf in..for free…. If that helps!
DrP
BMW ix3 is 285 (not real world) range and can tow 750kg and plenty in the second hand market
would that fit the bill in caravans etc?
Has anyone used the Tesla ‘open for all’ chargers with a non Tesla car?
Can you turn up and pay with a debit card without an app and pay the non member/owner prices?
I did this once when I first got an EV just to check. I had to download the Tesla app and put card details in using my phone. If of a faff, but no more than 5 mins. From then on was easy.
Yep - you need to download 5he Tesla App.
Thanks for the info. I'll download the Tesla app and sign up. 👍
I mean… i turned up to the rack of tesla chargers at Denby vineyard and just plugged my leaf in..for free…. If that helps!
You can plug it in but it won't charge unless you pay...
Heathrow T2 Superchargers are open to all and despite being the "old" layout doesn't seem to have that many problems with one car blocking two or three chargers. Unfortunately while still a bit resentful about it after paying the "supercharging premium" on the car in the first place if sharing is the only effective way to get the grid connection to chargers in the first place then 🤷♂️
BMW ix3 is 285 (not real world) range and can tow 750kg and plenty in the second hand market
would that fit the bill in caravans etc?
Need at least 1000 i would think. Unless it's one of those micro caravans for 2 people, which can come in under 750.
You can plug it in but it won’t charge unless you pay…
Not wanting to be an arse by correcting you ...but....i plugged it in... it charged my car.. i didn't use an app or anything...and I had a lovely bike ride during the process...
Guess you had to be there 😉
DrP
The mini caravans are under 1000kg, there are some super lightweight tiny jobs for less, but a regular lightweight caravan is about 1200-1350kg. A regular regular one about 1500 ish.
An iX3 is still at least £40k. There are lots of EV tow cars that can do 1600kg, what we want is affordable ones 🙂
I’ll download the Tesla app and sign up. 👍
Easy enough process, the membership scheme wouldn't save me any money.
Nice to see variable pricing at the charging stations on the app, it might save a few quid on longer journeys.
I just saw an Ioniq 6 in the local streets near my house so there's a strong chance it lives nearby. Looks much better on the road than in the pictures. Bigger than I thought and a lot more solid looking.
@DrP what's the user interface like on that Leaf? General level of design, annoying bings and stupid pop up messages etc?
I'm torn between a cheap Leaf - 40-50k miles, 40kWh battery, heat pump, £10-11k, and another Ioniq for a couple of grand more.
Yesterday I completed another decent long trip in the Corsa e.
Started just before 9am with 165miles range , 80?% battery and headed from North Manchester to the Tesla charger at Flint mountain. Used the motorways and A55 to get there. Added 15kWh.
Then headed via the A roads via Bala to the Aberystwyth Tesla charger. Added 21kWh whilst getting a fast food snack.
Then drove around Aberystwyth, up the coast via Borth, Aberdyfi, Tywyn, Barmouth, Harlech, Beddgelert, Pen y pass, Llanberis, A55, Conwy and back to the Flint Tesla charger. Arrived there with 8% and 15 miles remaining.
Relatively quick sub 30 minutes charge to add 35kWh get back up to just over 80%.
Then A55, motorway, A57, motorway to get back home with 90 miles remaining.
No home charging yet so the longer last Tesla charger stop saves a bit of cash compared to the local fast chargers.
The car was fine. Small enough for the country lanes. The windows send to get dirty so I'm going to take a cloth to wipe them down if necessary. The cruise control (non adaptive) worked well on the empty dual carriageways and motorways. Make it easy to deal with the average speed cameras.
So far so good with the car.
^^^ to me that just sound like one huge amount of faff compared to setting off in a petrol version with a full tank ! 🤪
I do say that rather tongue in cheek, as I’m awaiting delivery next week of my first EV, so about to launch into ‘the experience’….
But the driving was so much nicer and I wouldn't of bothered doing it in the diesel car!
👍😁
to me that just sound like one huge amount of faff
It's not, really, unless you are specifically in a hurry. Stopping every so often is really pleasant, especially when you have nice places to be. Thing is, often you would stop anyway to eat or get coffee or whatever. It's a really nice way to travel. I stopped four times last time I did an 8hr trip - the first one was a pleasant break with a stroll to get a drink, pee and stretch legs in a nice small town, one was to eat dinner (super convenient but far less nice since it was a charger in a McDs car park), once proved fruitless as the chargers weren't working for me, and another was also fruitless because the charger was full. But over all it was pleasant and I would totally do it again. It really does change the way you approach journeys, and for the better I think.
Back in the days before universal motorway coverage you'd stop in towns to eat etc or find a shop, get fuel. This style of travel is still alive in much of Wales and Scotland and it fits well with EV use.
^^ oh well, it’s good I live in central Scotland then, and have an EV incoming… 😁
It’s a really nice way to travel. I stopped four times last time I did an 8hr trip
You have kids don't you. We stop now with kids it's a necessary evil. Before kids we wouldn't think twice about driving 6-8 hrs without stopping for more than 2 minutes to swap seats.....
It'll be a change in mindset for many.
def the mindset change - we like a couple of stops anyway headed to the Central Belt. Roll on EV charge points at House of Bruar. Becoming very acquainted with the good points and poor points en route to Edinburgh (I'm looking at you, Perth Broxden P&R) and the appalling 1 point in Aviemore. Which is broken half the time.
You have kids don’t you.
Yeah but they weren't with me on that trip. When they were young then we had to stop, we'd look out places with parks they could run about in. When they got old enough to play tablet games we restricted their time generally, like good middle class parents, and did not allow tablets in cars except on long trips when we let them fill their boots. They were so engrossed that they did not even know what was going on around them. One time when they were something like 7/9 (on a trans continental US road trip where you do what you can to survive) we stopped at a favourite fast food place and they didn't look up from their tablets even when we turned the engine off, got out and walked away. They were quiet shocked when we came back and knocked on the window.
If very long drives without stopping are for some reason desirable, then with the right choice of car you can still get somewhere near that. My i4 will go for almost 5 hours at 70 (and unless it’s the early hours of the morning and you’re exclusively on the motorway you can’t legally average more than about 60mph anyway). Then a 30 min stop would get it ready for another 3-4 hrs ish and repeat until exhaustion or you run out of the UK mainland.
Isn’t towing a caravan going to be a range killing exercise and great fun to charge with assuming no charger issues 🙂
I find going off the Tesla network enuff excitement adding a caravan wouldn’t be my idea of fun ev times.
Isn’t towing a caravan going to be a range killing exercise
It does kill range yes - seems likely you'd only get 50-60% of your solo range. But so what? A single motor Ioniq 5 long range gives you 300 miles to play with. Half that - 150 miles - is enough. A bigger issue is how to actually charge. You'd have to un-hitch somewhere and then go and charge up solo. Not too difficult in a motorway services, harder elsewhere perhaps. You'd have to plan carefully, but then you have to plan when caravanning anyway.
Most of your miles are done on motorways, and the'd be easy to deal with. Leave your van in the HGV park with your partner and kids inside making lunch and take your car over to the charging point. This doesn't bother me tbh.
Leave your van in the HGV park with your partner and kids inside making lunch
Better still, stay in the van with the kids making lunch while your partner charges the car. Accidentally drink a sherry or two on the process, then your partner has to drive the rest of the way.
Never seen the attraction of 6 or 8 hours straight driving without a stop, don't see charging EV to make much difference to our trips. Standard advice is a 15 min (at least) break every 2-3h, we are usually more like 30 and that's enough for a useful top-up.
I REALLY like the Leaf, and think the user interface is actually fab. It's very much like a 'typical' car setup in the sense it's got buttons on the dash for the heating, Ac, and such.. it's got the Nissan HU in teh middle for android auto etc, with buttons to the side of that for menu/settings...
Bascially, very few things are controlled via the touchscreen - which I like (some cars you control the wing mirros via a touchscreen menu).
One annoyance is some GDPR thing when you turn the car on, the head unit asks if you're OK sharing GPS location or somthine or other... i guess it's cos it's data, it has to ask.
The drive modes are simple enough - selected via a sensible 'shift stick'. E pedal can be turned on/off via a button, or set to be on by default from startup (what I do).
the 40kWh model will show 150 miels of range - obvs you know this is best case...
Chademo units are still popping up, so i wouldn't write that off TBH..though i've only ever used fast charge once. it tops up fairly quickly with the standard charger...
it's super comfy, and even the base models have adaptive cruise control.
Plus, if you wanna install coilovers, I can talk you through it... 😉
DrP
I though it was a good car to drive too, nicer than the Ioniq. What concerns me is that given the ChaDemo thing and the possible battery degradation issue (the newer ones are still air-cooled) the second hand value might plummet. I mean, it has plummeted, it might continue to do so.
And the range looks a lot more variable dependent on weather/speed etc. I'd feel more comfortable doing a long trip in the Ioniq because not only is it extremely efficient (a good thing in itself) it's also really consistent. That gives me a better feeling about long trips. However there is also the 62kWh Leaf, which helps that; but then there's no cost saving versus Ioniq. Also, every Ioniq 38kWh has a heat pump as far as I can tell.
Of course, it's a second car, so the diesel is always there for long trips, but I do quite like driving electric. Then again, if it's our own car not a lease, I might want to keep the miles down, especially if it's a leaf.. hmm.
My i4 will go for almost 5 hours at 70 (and unless it’s the early hours of the morning and you’re exclusively on the motorway you can’t legally average more than about 60mph anyway). Then a 30 min stop would get it ready for another 3-4 hrs ish and repeat until exhaustion or you run out of the UK mainland.
Mine is being delivered next week 🙂
I am hoping to do most of my charging at home, and the Easee charger is installed and ready to go. I have downloaded the BMW App and also subscribed to ChargePlace Scotland. Have joined the UK i4 drivers FB page also, for tips on setup etc - things like setting up shortcuts to switch off the lane assist, and also how to setup the key fob to remotely get the car to desired cabin temp (though not worked that one out yet ...).
It seems like the touchscreen stuff is fairly intuitive, so hopefully not a case of 2 hrs sitting in the car reading the manual, like in the old days !
I think the prices have already plummeted TBH... it seems to be stabilising out.
And the chadmoe thing has been on the cards for years now it seems - on teh Leaf FB group the admin has actually said they'll ban people scaremongering abut it, and followed up with a tonne of Chademo chargers that were installed up north somewhere..
I've basically got a 2 car hybrid system with the leaf!
I use the Leaf for 95% of my journeys, and have kept my old octavia for longer trips (4 bikes on roof etc etc)..
I WAY prefer driving the leaf..
DrP
Yeah I much prefer electric as well.
But residual value is all about perception.