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I’ve just put my name down for the VW 7 seater ibuzz. I’ve never bought a new car in my life (I’m 45), let alone put my name down on a waitlist for one. It’ll be replacing a Peugeot 5008 SUV from the mid teens that we’ve grown out of.
I’m actually not that excited, I slightly feel like cars are no different from washing machines (and I spent my childhood tracing Porsche 964s). But it’s the car that best suits us, so here we go!
I’m only really interested in the Tesla network for my Alps EV trip in the summer. Lots of the encounters Superchargers have 20+ stalls whereas most of the Aires have 4-6. They all seem to have V3 though.
V2s powershare between adjacent stalls, so at max 125, 60 ish can be about right.
The problem with superchargers is that Tesla is the most popular single manufacturer and all Tesla drivers want to go to them. They do fill up, so I'm told.
Yeah - but a queue waiting at 24 in use will move quicker than if there are only 4!
Plus the only ones open to non-Teslas were the quieter ones.
The only queues I saw driving to the Alps in march where for Tesla chargers. While right opposite them was a bay of 6 empty other chargers with me looking smug.
Oh they're where the usual queues for fuel as well. I guess that infrastructure isn't ready yet either? 😜
But neither of the above points matter, the Tesla drivers are not excluded from using any other network. 🤷♂️
not sure why Tesla drivers would sit and queue when there's an empty bank they can all use, even if there's a smug driver in one space. 😂
Thanks. I went for the Model Y SR in the end. My thoughts were that the supercharger network will just give me more options to charge, rather than just using it exclusively.
Some manufacturers have now decided to adopt the Tesla plug, which of course means they need to pay Tesla loads of money.
I don't think that's true, as I understand it it's covered under their open licence program. Yes it means it's easier to profit from non-Tesla's using their Supercharger network (and saves them the cost of having to install more converters on their existing Superchargers). NACS is actually a better connector than CCS to but a bit crap we can't have a global standard, although I can't say I'll be travelling outside of Europe in my EV.
I had read somewhere that there was a license payment but it appears not, fortunately:
Meanwhile, Tesla is set to make a lot of money off the new charger trend. GM and Rivian both told Gizmodo via email that they aren’t paying Tesla directly to use the NACS technology—outside of the charging fees that individual users will pay per charge—but still, that’s a lot of new revenue, and it’s unclear if the lack of licensing fee trend will hold.
What a pointless bunfight though. Who says competition always benefits the consumer?
Re Tesla drivers not using generic chargers - isn't it much cheaper for them to use Tesla? This could easily happen with non-Tesla cars too for an individual, because you might want to use a particular charger if that's in the network you've subscribed to.
Tesla Superchargers now down to 25p/kWh. I think their big competitors in the UK have some tough questions to answer given they're all between three to four times the price for slower charging and less reliability.
Superchargers don't need to make a profit, they can even be a loss leader for Tesla. Other companies not so much.
How long until you can buy a CCS to Tesla adaptor on Ali Express?
In Europe Tesla is CCS2, same as most other cars. So you don't need an adapter.
in shock and horror i shall be test driving a tesla in half an hour......
equally isnt one of teslas big pushes that they dont patent and licence things ?
in shock and horror i shall be test driving a tesla in half an hour
Expecting scathing review soon... 😉
Model y.
Very nice. A million miles away from the polestar 2 the other week.
Spacious airy cabin
Not a crashy ride (admittedly the one I drove had the bigger wheels but crucially also the deeper section tires)
Infotainment easy to use - a HUD would have been nice for key info such as speed.
Bottom line if it wasn't 40 grand I'd be more immediately interested.
The mighty berlingo needs replacing soon due to emissions rules....... May see what's about then but the thought of paying 500 quid a month with 5grand down and 5000 limited milage stings.
Yeah. They aren't hugely more expensive than comparable ICE cars but most are relatively high end and also quite new so you still need a lot of actual money.
The bit I still don’t understand with EVs is how the second hand market will work. Clearly there will be lots of EVs ending their initial lease period soon and start coming to the market. But who is going to buy them. How is anyone going to know if the battery is good for another 2 months or 5 years. How much will replacements be, as I would want to be factoring that into any second hand purchase. That’s before you start to factor in your ability to sell it on aging at some point in the future like you would with a normal car.
eagerly awaiting updates from Tusker/dealer on delivery date for mine. It has been showing as estimated as late July for a few months (ordered in Feb this year) with a status of 'on order awaiting build slot'. I noticed earlier today it now has a chassis number, so fingers crossed that means it's getting a bit nearer .. !
The bit I still don’t understand with EVs is how the second hand market will work. Clearly there will be lots of EVs ending their initial lease period soon and start coming to the market. But who is going to buy them. How is anyone going to know if the battery is good for another 2 months or 5 years. How much will replacements be, as I would want to be factoring that into any second hand purchase. That’s before you start to factor in your ability to sell it on aging at some point in the future like you would with a normal car.
all of their batteries will be under manufacturer warranty for another 4-6years. As such, there’s far less to go wrong where you’d have to foot the bill for it. The battery is around 25-30% of the cost of a £45k car and that’s insured. EVs are actually a safer bet than than an ICE within the extended battery warranty period.
How is anyone going to know if the battery is good for another 2 months or 5 years
It's not like a laptop or a phone; whilst the battery chemistry is the same the way they are managed is different - obviously when you think about it. Car manufacturers don't build cars where the battery is going to randomly pack up or drop to 50% like your phone does - of course not. The battery management, particularly temperature regulation, is the key. Also the fact it's modular - you can replace a few cells or modules, not the entire thing. They also add some extra headroom on top so if you lose 5% of capacity you never know.
The car will report the battery health, and that's what you'll have to check when you buy the car. There are many cars out there (mostly older Teslas) with proper high mileages on, that have 80-90% battery health and those are old cars that likely don't have the most up to date battery management tech. Lots of Hyundais out there with 100k miles and no battery degradation. Every EV forum has a sticky thread on this.
I may have missed seeing it, but what do people think of the e-berlingo?
I currently have a 11year old ford mondeo estate, diesel, 80,000 miles+. Its gone in for another expensive (to me) repair, this time an injector for one of the pistons. Previously the brakes and shocks 6months before.
I don't want to replace it, but I'm wondering if expensive repairs are now going to be a regular thing. Which is making me think about changing. I'm traveling around Manchester a lot, and I'm sure that an emissions charge like London will be coming soon (I think there is a commercial vehicle one currently planned)
Looking around there aren't many big electric estates around, with only MG and Porsche making them. But I have seen the Eberlingo XL, which looks like it would tick the box for big estate.
Range is 170miles, which for most days is fine.
I don’t want to replace it, but I’m wondering if expensive repairs are now going to be a regular thing.
Not necessarily. Remember that car parts are mostly independent of each other, with some exceptions - so if you replaced the injectors you now have a car with new injectors, and they won't fail again. It's not going to cause the turbo to fail or the lambda sensor or whatever.
Re estates there will be an estate version of the VW iD7 after some time and also the BMW i5 I think, but they won't be cheap for a long while. The MG is a well regarded car though.
We looked at the ID3 (my BIL has the first gen) but couldn't make the numbers add up. A month into MG4 ownership we're happy with that choice. Wide sills, LA apart, really nothing we don't like.
Home chargers tho. Well that was fun. Here are 900 words on exactly how much fun it wasn't 😉
https://www.pickled-hedgehog.com/electric-schemes/
Love our ID3. It felt more modern and ‘E’ than the Niro we tested. If you’re going to go modern you might as well go all in.
It has its quirks but I love driving it.
The software is OK? I like the car, but the first versions had some less than ideal things there. That and the lead time for delivery.
You can measure a battery to see what it's capacity is. I'd imagine they're less likely to die randomly than an ICE engine - they go wrong all the time, lots of nonsense with cam chains, oil, this has bust, oh the DPF is knackered blah blah blah
they go wrong all the time, lots of nonsense with cam chains, oil, this has bust, oh the DPF is knackered blah blah blah
I know. I've had my diesel for two years, warranty company spent £900 on changing the exhaust manifold and £400 on the timing chain tensioner; I spent £120 on engine mounts. Oh and about £700 on servicing so far. But that didn't include air filter and heated oil filter, that was £90 on its own. Also (haha) £200 on a 12V battery!
The ID3 was only £10 more than the MG4 and £10 less than the Niro. And worked pre-ordered 200 of them so the lead time shouldn't be too long.
I know I will get fewer miles than the MG4 and Niro but for my needs, I'm not too worried about it.
The car will report the battery health, and that’s what you’ll have to check when you buy the car.
There will even be industry standardisation on this, there are legal requirements about battery health status reporting that will get more onerous as time goes by
Kind of important tbh. If they can be forced to tell you when you buy it, or put it on an MOT certificate or something, that'd be great.
industry standardisation on this, there are legal requirements about battery health status reporting
worked well for emissions reporting!
worked well for emissions reporting!
When stuff like that happens they change how they do things.
they go wrong all the time, lots of nonsense with cam chains, oil, this has bust, oh the DPF is knackered blah blah blah
I know. I’ve had my diesel for two years, warranty company spent £900 on changing the exhaust manifold and £400 on the timing chain tensioner; I spent £120 on engine mounts. Oh and about £700 on servicing so far. But that didn’t include air filter and heated oil filter, that was £90 on its own. Also (haha) £200 on a 12V battery!
Old car doing old car things shocker.
How is anyone going to know if the battery is good for another 2 months or 5 years.
How does anyone know whether an engine or gearbox or DPF or anything else on a car is good for another 2 months or 5 years?
The dealers and warranty houses will use the data and reach a suitable price for a 2 year warranty, or you'll just take a flyer as you did when you bought your last Murcielago.
How is anyone going to know if the battery is good for another 2 months or 5 years.
TBH, part of the legislation is linked to having data about total battery life. So (eventually) you'll be able to see the new state, the current state and a curve (or series of curves) showing how far into it's life the battery actually is.
The dealer will make a call on the value for resale purposes, and you can make a call on what level of remaining battery life you will accept. 2 months, or 5 years.
worked well for emissions reporting!
TBH, that was based on legislation that was originally framed in the last century. And it wasn't well written in the first place. Lots of manufacturers have been taking various levels of the piss, completely within the rules as written. Except VW (and a few others over the years) who have stepped over the line.
How is someone going to have 'data' on total battery life as you're extrapolating into the future on variables you don't know. What you do know is the state of a battery at it's current condition as you can measure it, and you know where it started. The degradation with time isn't linear, and you'll have to make your own assessment of how long you'll think it usable starting at it's current point. It's not like they magically just stop working one day - unless a petrol or diesal.
FWIW Hyundai guarantee max 20% degradation after 5 years or 30% in 10
FWIW Hyundai guarantee max 20% degradation after 5 years or 30% in 10
Surely it's mileage/charging cycles that affects battery health not age?
<p>20% after 5 years sounds pretty terrible so no surprise they guarantee that! </p>
How is someone going to have ‘data’ on total battery life as you’re extrapolating into the future on variables you don’t know.
Errr, modelling. Damage factors, usage profiles. It's only a prediction based on normal/worst case/best case scenarios. And we know at what point the battery will stop being useful. And it doesn't need to be linear, can still model with a fair degree of accuracy.
Drive/charge like a idiot and you'll be able to see the damage you're doing over time.
No 20 or 30% is fine in most cases, and as they're guaranteeing they see it as being an exception rather than the rule as replacing millions of batteries is expensive. For the vast majority of people 80 % of a Hyundai , so real work 300km+ is just fine.
Are ICE engines guaranteed for 5 yuears with zero maintenance costs - I don't think so. Everything is a compromise, and most people don't tow horseboxes to Aberdeeen every 2nd weekend...
I am very aware of modelling and what you write. But you asked how much longer would a battery last, and would it be 'another 2 months or 5 years'. And the answer is still, who knows ? Modelling, state of charge, use r requirements all play a part so expecting a dealer to give you a hard answer is a little unlikely.
'Surely it’s mileage/charging cycles that affects battery health not age?' Yes, and how it's charged, how it's discharged,where you live (temperature) all play a part. But guarantees are normally measured/legislated in time
Old car doing old car things shocker
That's my point exactly. Or rather, old ICE car doing old ICE car things.
The degradation with time isn’t linear
Probably fairly predictable though, at least given the same owner doing the same things with it. If someone treats it badly for the first 3 years then it gets sold to someone who treats it better for 8 years, the rate of change could alter?
And the answer is still, who knows ?
No it's not.
It's not like an engine, you can't over rev it, you can't run it with out coolant, or low oil, you can't over discharge/charge it, or run it on shit fuel, you can't choose the wrong gear, or stall it, or leave it idling for hours. All the inputs and outputs are accounted for, as are (most of) the internal states.
Modelling, state of charge, user requirements all play a part so expecting a dealer to give you a hard answer is a little unlikely.
The dealer won't need to, the car will have a data field *somewhere* saying "this battery has 87% of it's planned life before replacement remaining." Or something like that.
It's then down to normal haggling as to if that's good enough, and how much you pay for it.
It’s not like an engine, you can’t over rev it, you can’t run it with out coolant, or low oil, you can’t over discharge/charge it, or run it on shit fuel, you can’t choose the wrong gear, or stall it, or leave it idling for hours. All the inputs and outputs are accounted for, as are (most of) the internal states.
You can however, fast charge it to 100% every time, compared to topping it up slowly overnight.
That said - I've also heard that adding a small amount of charge 'counts' as a charge/discharge cycle. I don't know if that's just for accounting purposes or actually a chemistry thing - or even if it's true as I think that was with reference to phones.