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Presumably if it’s plugged in 60 miles away and someone’s draining your power then you’ll still get money back for it.
Sounds awesome while your partner /kids are at home continuing to use grid power. While your office is draining your car readying you for your trip home.
I think it will have no effect on solar - as cars don't generate power and it'll possibly reduce the level of batteries folk fit. It probably makes 5kwh batteries make more sense in a "when the cars out" type of thing.
For most folk the cars not there when batteries are most useful.
While your office is draining your car readying you for your trip home.
Oh you've found the subtle flaw that no-one else has, well done!
For most folk the cars not there when batteries are most useful.
They could be charged in the afternoon or evening with grid solar and discharge overnight to your home. The California grid certainly seems to think it'd be useful.
sharkbait
Free Member
Nice parking ….. gotta watch them alloys!
Not my parking - it’s where the delivery driver parked it after reversing off the trailer it came on.
round town is terrible for EV I find long runs way better too.
I’ve found the EV great around town, with a caveat. Short journeys hurt efficiency - the proportion of energy used to warm / cool the car is high vs energy used to drive. Around town tends to be short journeys so that might explain it.
Isn’t that the same for ALL vehicles?
No, not necessarily. To get a vehicle of a given weight up to a given speed you always need a certain amount of energy, and that's what's stored in your fuel tank or battery. So in the simplest model, it doesn't matter how fast you accelerate. The difference between ICE and EV is the efficiency of the process. When accelerating you are using much more power than cruising of course, and an ICE is much less efficient doing this, which is why accelerating modestly is more efficient. In an EV whilst you do waste more energy as heat in the cables when you accelerate faster, it's not very much.
Of course driving at constant speeds doesn't have this problem but on motorways you are then losing much more energy to air resistance. So a car with greater efficiency loss (e.g. an ICE) whilst accelerating could do better on motorways than one that doesn't lose much whilst accelerating. And of course you have regen braking on EVs which helps recover the energy you've put in. EV motors are less efficient at slow speed, but nowhere near as much as ICEs - and the overhead of running the car and HVAC is fixed so that becomes a larger portion of the total draw when you are driving slowly. Driving VERY slowly i.e. queueing traffic for ages is less efficient in an EV, for sure, but then so it is in an ICE.
Driving around Cardiff we don't queue much, there's a mix of traffic lights and suburban 40mph driving, with some lanes thrown in, but we don't usually drive at times when it requires waiting at lights for more than one cycle. In such driving the EV gets between 125% and 150% of the motorway efficiency, whereas in the ICE it's probably between 65% and 80% depending in both cases how much cruising there has been. Countryside A roads are also around 120% of motorway efficiency in the EV, but in the ICE it's probably 90%-100%.
@whatgoesup damn nice car.
While your office is draining your car readying you for your trip home.
Oh you’ve found the subtle flaw that no-one else has, well done!
For most folk the cars not there when batteries are most useful.
They could be charged in the afternoon or evening with grid solar and discharge overnight to your home. The California grid certainly seems to think it’d be useful.
so how does any of that noise affect domestic microgeneration ? - which was what SK point was getting at. its hardly a subtle flaw its the main corner stone any argument for what is being suggested - you handily gloss over the part where i mention that the car doesn't create electricity either.....
lets not forget all the other blockers to connecting the car up at the office/house every day - just not seeing it being an alternative to Micro generation nor house batteries - more a supplement to your system for those with forward thinking employers and a good electric deal..... and with driveways at home.
I already know of a number of folks whos offices have subcontracted out their charging point infrastructure(so the employers not paying for the fitting) and the employees are now getting screwed on extortionate charging rates - the next Diesel gate im sure.
maybe by 2030 our government will have all those issues sorted out......the charging point issue certainly needs regulated across the board.
more a supplement to your system for those with forward thinking employers and a good electric deal
True, but this is being pushed by legislatures which I think is going to force employers to be more forward thinking. Which is the right way to do things IMO.
the charging point issue certainly needs regulated across the board.
Yes I think this is classic Tory laziness expecting public sector to come up with a solution, where it should be done nationally.
Well a week after the test drive, we've PX'd the Fabia and this has taken its place. Just had a look at the route for the proper charger and its not as bad as expected. We'll sort that after we're back from hols. Short term the 'granny' charger goes at around 4% per hour so we'll just use our current night storage tariff to keep us in the green.
No Type 2 cable with the car sadly, just bought one to take advantage of some local 7kw chargers. Rural england tho, coverage isn't great.
Still it's a lovely thing and I'm very much looking forward to driving it (if my wife lets me!)
I'm in the process of purchasing a 2nd hand Corsa e. Had a test drive of a 2.5yr old sub 10000 mile car and I was impressed.
Very quiet, handled well, accelerated quick enough for me.
I'm not sure whether to buy the extended warranty/gap insurance/service plan. My gut feeling is to chance it and save my money and put the money towards the increase in my insurance premium and home charging stuff. What could go wrong?!
Had the email at work to order a new car. Looking at the VW ID3 and a Kia eNiro. I know what I'm getting with the eNiro as I have a Soul which has been completely flawless since I've had it and love the range you get. But I'm partly thinking of going for something different. I have a good choice to choose from but work currently have deals on the two above and also the MG4
Anyone got one of the ID3's 58Kw and what the real range is like?
I’ve had a 58kw id3 for nearly 2 years. Only run it in public chargers (terrace house).
The best real data I can give you is we drove exactly 100 miles to Cardiff last weekend (A roads and motorway) and used exactly 50% charge from full. That’s with 2 adults and 2 big teenagers in the car with air-con on. Adaptive cruise control set for 75 on the M4 and 65 or 70 on the duals. ‘Free’ drove the A roads at between 50 and 60.
Used a rapid charger (50kw) in Cardiff to take it back up to 92% and got home with 40-something.
The rest of the time it’s hard to see a true range as we do lots of little top-ups when shopping etc.
That’s in top teens Celsius of course. Winter is a whole different ball-game and I reckon we’d probably use 70% at least for the same journey.
We love it. No regrets even with public charging prices going crazy in the last 12 months. Cruising round Pembrokeshire is great and I can get my bike in to go to N Wales really easily.
Don’t get hung up on range unless you have a massive commute every day and no home charger.
It’s a nice car to be in and drive and works for us.
I've ordered a Skoda Enyaq iV 60 (would have been happier with the 80 as range is about 325 miles, but I couldn't afford the monthly payments), so I think I'll get about 230 miles during summer (and about 170 miles in winter) as I'm wanting a towball and the company I can use have plenty of ev options but only a few offering towball. It looks nicer than the id4 (but that is a matter of opinion), but is essentially the same car.
I was keen on the Cupra Born (the id3 looked really cheap in comparison and cost a bit more) and the mg4 (which has now been approved for a towbar but mg won't fit it and it is limited to 50kg).
Bigger than I was wanting and I'll be using public chargers, but it was the cheapest option for a towbar. I didn't go for the fancy charging cable (didn't pay attention as it was an extra £320 and I wasn't thinking it was worth it) - so what have I now limited myself to in terms of charging?
I'm hoping I can charge at work, otherwise I'll be charging at public chargers...and I've just realised I've done nothing to research cost of public charging! Looking forward to the new car but after typing this I'm feeling like a lemon not doing some more checks!
Quick update on the i4 vs the ETron that it replaced.
It's bloody fantastic - not as an EV but as a car. Quiet, comfy, handles great as a beemer should and it's quick of course, plus fits a bike in the back no issue.
It just did an 812 miles round trip - Daventry to Cambridge to CHester to the Lakes, then 3 days running around the lakes, back to Cambridge and then to Daventry. 3.9 m/kw.hr and £50 total electric cost. Charged three times in that whole time - straight onto a fast Ionity charger each time, but could have easily been two stops instead. The "big" charge was on the return trip, from 7% to 90%, 40 minutes and it was complete before we had finished our naughty but nice motorway food stop. With the >300 mile range of this car charging on long trips has become less frequent and also much easier to work around as the range means flexibility to charge when it's convenient.
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^^^^ yaay, my i4 is about 6 weeks away, and your post makes me happy 😁.
Did you go for any options ? Mine is the big battery, base white, and I went for leather and the retractable towbar, as I have a towbar bike rack.
When putting bike inside, do you need to remove the fixed piece of the parcel shelf ?
Edit, looking at yours, I think mine has blue outside trim, rather than black..
@whatgoesup I'm looking to do the same move from E-Tron to i4 in the next year or so. Glad to hear you like it.
Mine is an E40, so is RWD with 340BHP and and big battery.
Options wise the only ones on mine are the MSport trim and the Tech Pack (fancy stereo and HUD). The black rather than blue accents is a no cost option. The way our company car options worked out is that I could have this spec or a total base model with metallic paint, or a towbar or leather interior.
The e35 wasn’t released when I ordered. The lower power would be fine with me, but not the smaller battery.
Yes I do remove the fixed order of the parcel shelf, otherwise you would have to slide the bike in underneath it. The bike is visible from the outside regardless so no benefit to leaving it in. I haven’t felt the need to remove the bit that’s attached to the tailgate itself though.
Oh, final comment - with 3 bikes on the roof the efficient dropped to around 2.9 m/kw.hr on mostly 60 mph roads. Still better than than the ETron managed with bikes inside !
I didn’t go for the fancy charging cable (didn’t pay attention as it was an extra £320 and I wasn’t thinking it was worth it) – so what have I now limited myself to in terms of charging?
What fancy charging cable? Rapid public chargers have cables attached (they are really thick and heavy); you only need your own cable for the 7kW ones which are of limited use unless you are spending a lot of time at one e.g. it's at work or you are parking at one for a day out or something.
I don't know...I didn't pay attention to the offer as it was over £300...just had a check and I think this is what I didn't pick - iV Universal charging cable with industrial connector 32A/230V. I didn't even look to see what it was, from Skoda it it a £600 option so might not be right.
However, your post suggests I've completely misunderstood how the charging works anyway so likely to be all good.
Hm it seems to be a charger that connects to a 32A socket like you might find in a workshop or factory or something - a commando socket. One of these:
So you don't need it. It has a type 2 on the other end which is what plugs into the car. Bit silly to call it a cable when it's really a charging device.
What people call a 'granny' charger plugs into a normal 13A socket, and can supply 3kW. One of those came with my car, but it's a standard thing so they're cheaply available if you need one. But they are of limited use - I've only used mine twice - once whilst at my parents to stick in a few more miles when we were visiting; the other was when we stayed in a static caravan and we trailed it out of the window with an extension lead.
You should also get a charging cable, which is what I was talking about, probably with the car - this has a type 2 on both ends and is actually just a cable, not a charger; it's for the slow public chargers. They go up to 22kW sometimes with AC, which is alright; many cars can only accept 7kW AC but it seems the iV can do 11kW.
The actual fast chargers (known as rapid) are the ones that are 50kW and above - these are DC, and they're the ones where the cable is attached to the unit.
and I’ve just realised I’ve done nothing to research cost of public charging!
Public charging if you just rock up can be as high as 89p/kWh which makes it as expensive as diesel if not more; but there are many schemes that you can join for cheap that dramatically reduce it. You can sign up to say, Ionity, for a fee, and get it cheap, or you can go via other schemes - I'm eligible to join the one offered by Octopus, because I am a customer, but also the one from Hyundai. On that scheme I can pay something like £7/mo and the price at Ionity chargers drops to 54p I think, or 45p at BP.
Just this minute ordered a BMW iX1 to replace the i3s that goes back soon.
Had planned to go back to a second hand ICE but the prices are just insane, especially when you add in the interest rates.
whatgoesup, thanks, E40 coming here also, through work lease with Tusker. I didn’t go for Msport, but added in leather (white 🤪 ) and towbar as worked out a good deal.
Great to hear how good it is !
Thanks, Lister & DickBarton for the replies. I already have a home charger but mainly charge at work. It's just nice having the range of the Kia. The Born is also an option I can have also. I would really love the XC 40 but it's just too much car for what I need also I'm a bit reluctant to pay the monthly cost which is over twice what i'd be paying for the VW id3.
With regards to type 2 cables, I’ve used mine a couple of times . It came as standard with the car along with a granny cable.
You can pick them up for £100-£150 online.
Last time I used it was in hotel carpark overnight .
@whatgoesup - what typical range do you find you are getting, in real world driving ?
Anyone got one of the ID3’s 58Kw and what the real range is like?
I've had one for about 18months, it's about 220 in summer and about 180 in winter. If you look on evdatabase website, their averages for actual range are pretty good. On a day to day basis I prefer to work with % rather than miles with EVs which is a bit of a drawback with the id3 as it's primary display is in miles only (my previous Tesla could show either on the main display).
@iainc - since new the car has averaged 3.6m/kw.hr (=290 mile range) but that’s brought down a bit by short trips, so on a longer trip which is where range matters it’s more like 3.8-4 (306-320). I’ve seen up to 4.9 on one trip. Long story short, in warm weather at least it’s comfortably over 300.
Thanks for that
Thanks for that @B.A.Nana, thats what I was kind of thinking it would be about.
Quick update for anyone looking to install a home charger. We have *interesting* electrics here so getting the charger where we wanted it was on the wrong side of non trivial. Done now and with the new Octopus Tariff, we can get 200 miles for about a fiver.
Definitely worth thinking about
- a smart charger that has a module connected to the incoming supply so it'll back off if your dishwasher kicks off at 3 am (we run a 24 hour heat pump here so we can't just blast 32a at the charger)
- an app that can schedule charging. The MG app does that but it's way easier to manage off the charger app
- a 'if you steal it, it won't work' feature. Not a massive issue, but nice to have
- when you're pulling cables through the house etc, getting some proper external sockets at the same time is a no brainer
- Running the charger on our 'old' E7 tails means we can track energy use from the charger
Three weeks with the MG4 now. Really like it. Lane assist is way too aggressive and sills are thigh gouging wide but otherwise we love it. Currently getting nearly 4kw/mile (unless I'm driving it on my own 😉 )
I think they all have a clamp on sensor for the meter tails to ensure it backs off the charge rate before you overload your supply. You can have two separate ev chargers on a single phase supply because of this.
4 week countdown till mine arrives….hopefully 🤞
Sounds right. The distance between our supply/fuse board/front of house meant we ended up using cables for the RS something protocol to connect charger to sensing unit in the board. We also hard wired the charger via an ethernet cable as the wifi is 'okay' outside but I didn't want to risk it.
It's a bit irritating to have to configure the charger, then the ESP32 chip don't steal thing and also the sensing unit in the fuse board. All with different interfaces/wifi SSIDs. I have about 2 pages of notes if I ever need to do it again!
Most houses have mains coming into the front where the car is parked. That'd have been lovely. Instead we've pulled a huge amount of cable to get the job done. Still having the E7 tails means we have the charging stuff entirely separated.
Very happy to put the 'granny' charger back in the bag and hope never have to use it again!
On a day to day basis I prefer to work with % rather than miles with EVs
@B.A.Nana I saw a lot of folks talking of doing that in Tesla forums. What’s the advantage to you of using the % charge reading?
asking as I find the distance remaining easy and useful. I suppose the % remaining is similar to an ICE fuel gauge?
@DickBarton I’ve used a type 2 cable twice since 2018. Both times at a Tesco. Once to see what it was like. Once because it was when they still had free charging & we had a bunch of shopping to do. My first EV went back with the type 2 cable still sealed in its wrapping.
Aside from some street side chargers you’re not missing out. Plenty of other options with tethered cables.
Despite the feeble charging rate the ‘granny’ 13A cable is more useful. I’ve used these maybe half a dozen times since 2018.
Irrelevant, but my first EV also came a blue commando plug and an EU plug. Our more recent cars have come only with 13A plugs.
I prefer % as miles remaining is so inaccurate , esp when you throw temperature and hills into the mix.
It’s handy having both % and miles range displayed. Miles are a really rough and ready estimate (it’s not called the guessometer for nothing). Once you know the car and types of driving you’re intending to do you can be more accurate using %.
Tesla model 3 here, delivered on Friday. Took around 3 weeks from test drive to delivery which was faster than expected, so I’m still on the back foot with getting a home charger installed. There’s a Supercharger station a mile from home and I have a 3-phase charger available at work, so no worries there.
No useful feedback at this point as I’m still in the giggly oh-my-god-it’s-so-fast phase 😀
In stark contrast to the above, we use our type 2 cable at least once per week. Untethered 7kw chargers are far more ubiquitous around the UK and if you’re driving somewhere and parking, you’re much more likely to find a 7kw charger in a car park and 95% of the time, that charger will need a cable.
I use a type 2 cable a lot - mainly because the carpark at work has untethered chargers.
Also on a longer trip I do relatively often the choice is fast chargers in the hotel carpark or 7kW chargers in a public carpark outside a pub a mile away. The 7kW ones are half the price and give a good excuse to drive to the pub, leave the car there overnight and have a walk or jog to get it back in the morning fully charged. Mind, that was in an ETron which needed almost a full charge to get back home again - the i4 will need a small top up, or might even get there and back in one charge.
I thought Andy Palmer's Twitter thread was fairly sensible. One thing that I think Rowan Atkinson misses is that, even if new cars are replaced every three years, the old car is sold as a used car and might keep running for another 10 or 20 years. They aren't just scrapped.
https://twitter.com/AndyatAuto/status/1666839093760622593
even if new cars are replaced every three years, the old car is sold as a used car and might keep running for another 10 or 20 years. They aren’t just scrapped.
Cars at the bottom end of the market are scrapped when they could be repairable because a replacement is cheap. The reason replacements are cheap is that supply of them, at the lower end, is still plentiful. The reason the supply of cheap cars is plentiful is that 15 years ago the supply of new cars into the market was plentiful.
If you stopped buying so many new cars then more old cars would be repaired rather than scrapped.
Some valid points made in that article. I must admit I’m hoping that my Model 3 lasts 10 yrs plus, on the basis of 300-500,000 mile battery life and not much else to go wrong. In fact by then I should only be on about 150,000 miles and therefore it should last another 10 years plus.
If that proves true it will be by far the longest lived car I have ever owned. Running costs are so low that the monthly payment on the bank loan I needed to upgrade are completely offset.
Time will tell if this aim proves realistic!
even if new cars are replaced every three years, the old car is sold as a used car and might keep running for another 10 or 20 years. They aren’t just scrapped.
Crucially, too, is that the lithium-ion battery from an EV can be recycled almost in entirety, along with 90% of the rest of the vehicle.
While 90% of an ICE car is also recyclable (although how much actually is recycled is another question), the high intrinsic value of the battery provides motivation to do so.
Crucially, too, is that the lithium-ion battery from an EV can be recycled almost in entirety, along with 90% of the rest of the vehicle.
Exactly.
The argument about EV car battery recycling is usually - there is no industrial scale enterprise doing it - which misses the point that there are not yet sufficient old EV batteries yet to recycle - when there are the business will grow.
Additionally, there is discussion about whether old EV batteries can be repurposed to provide domestic power banks to manage load with renewables. An 64KWh EV battery at 50% capacity would still provide days of electricity for usage in our household - EV charging aside obvs.