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The last services I went to, I forget which in M42 was essentially filling a whole section of car park with chargers.
And
I suspect it’s harder to get the supply out in the countryside.
There has been one motorway services that hit the news for having to put diesel generators in to service the chargers iirc. As the grid infrastructure wasn't up to the job.
That's not to say that's not an acceptable short term solution (single point generation emissions vs. Lower ICE efficiency of direct propulsion) but it does seem to highlight that we are a long way off getting national coverage of fast charging away from the larger routes and centres and that some very large infrastructure investment is needed in the mid term to achieve more electrification on the scale needed for the longer term (or a total change in transport attitudes).
If any grid engineers know better please do set me straight.
Yeah the noise is there to alert pedestrians at low speeds. I wish it were customisable though as on both EVs I've had it's quite an unpleasant whine. The sound on my neighbour's Tesla is equally unpleasant and also pretty loud. The whole street can hear it, including me on the other side of the house.
Re rural chargers - it might well be a better solution to fit a battery and a load of solar panels in an adjacent field. I'm sure any rural petrol station would jump at the chance to do this if there were a subsidy available.
That said, it mightn't be sustainable if every car stopped there to fill up needed a full charge.
If any grid engineers know better please do set me straight.
I'm not a grid engineer but my company is installing large batteries at motorway services so they can cope with peak demand.
If it was at low (“walking”) speeds, it may well have been the AVAS (Acoustic Vehicle Alerting System).
Sounded more like a revving and roar as it zipped away from the road crossing.
A Google and it turns out there is an AVAS noise but unclear whether that works with forward motion and reverse. But there’s also a ‘playing card in the spokes’ option of ‘electric sport sound’. Reminded me of Tony Stark roaring towards the Avengers in his Audi eTron.
https://www.taycanforum.com/forum/threads/how-to-turn-off-fake-engine-sounds.10718/
Figured I’d check out the source. Seems the sound was specially engineered to be authentic for an EV https://newsroom.porsche.com/en/2022/innovation/porsche-sound-of-the-taycan-christophorus-402-27794.html
AVAS only works on my Tesla when reversing - a weird, spaceship whine/hum that changes pitch with speed. Not unpleasant. Just weird.
My i4 has a weird (Hans Zimmer style) acceleration soundtrack when in sport mode, plays through the speakers, so internal only. Thankfully it can be switched off !
A nice man delivered my ID3 this morning, just in time to drive it to work.
Tbh I didn’t really know what I’d ordered so nice to find that it’s got electric memory seats and a funky heads up display.
First impressions are very positive, feels reassuringly Volkswagen. Yeah the touch screen gets bad press but with CarPlay running (wirelessly with a wireless charging slot) I’ll hardly be having to touch it.
Need to turn off the driver assist that tugs at the wheel when you get close to the white lines, that’s a bit annoying.
Need to turn off the driver assist that tugs at the wheel when you get close to the white lines, that’s a bit annoying.
Get used to it if you can, it might save your life one day. Ok so on narrow B roads it's a bit much, but otherwise might be useful.
There has been one motorway services that hit the news for having to put diesel generators in to service the chargers iirc. As the grid infrastructure wasn’t up to the job.
Not exactly.
“Gridserve is using second-life batteries and biofuel to help speed up electric vehicle charger activation.
The business introduced this interim microgrid solution at Moto Ferrybridge, months ahead of when the grid connection was otherwise available.
The trial test case with this microgrid solution features a 150kW/150kWh battery pack, sourced from second-life car batteries, that controls the supply of power to the EV chargers and is supplied by vegetable oil generators.”
They are doing that at the Exeter services site at the moment. It’s taking up a number of the stalls , and it says on the hoarding that it is temporary
I used the new Ionity chargers at Carlisle last Saturday. Well located, 2 mins off the M6, with a Starbucks on site and all the usual retail park offerings within a 200m walk. If nothing else, it should alleviate the pressure on Gretna Green services, which has become increasingly busy.
Get used to it if you can, it might save your life one day. Ok so on narrow B roads it’s a bit much, but otherwise might be useful.
My commute is cross country A / B roads, and yep it is a bit much. Not an issue on motorway or around town but on a bend at 60mph getting tugged back away from the white line isn’t a good feeling.
Looks like it can’t be set off permanently, always defaults to on so I’ll persevere with it and learn how to switch it off quickly!
Yeah, there are roads that just aren't wide enough - so I'll give you that one :). Hyundai had a button by the driver's knee to turn it off. The Leaf doesn't, but it you can leave the menu on the page where you can quick turn it off, and it will stay on that page across restarts.
In other news - £22k for a 200-mile EV, anyone?
You're quite right it was biofuel. I don't think it's necessarily a bad short term fix (even if it was diesel) for grid issues if it gets a greater spread of fast charger availability. More highlighting the challenges we have ahead as demand grows if infrastructure isn't prioritised.
Looks like it can’t be set off permanently, always defaults to on so I’ll persevere with it and learn how to switch it off quickly
Touch the ‘assist’ button. Touch the road in front of the car in the picture. Knock the toggle to off.
Do this before you drive the car. It’s the worst thing about our id3 and it is never on. Horrendous and dangerous.
Touch the ‘assist’ button. Touch the road in front of the car in the picture. Knock the toggle to off.
Perfect thanks, didn’t realise the picture was clickable, I’d been using the little menu button in the corner.
One more question while you’re here… Do I always have to click OK to confirm it’s me driving when the screen first comes on? Bit of an annoying pop up.
You certainly do. It’s one of the ‘improvements’ they’ve made recently 😂
Excellent. I love technology sometimes 🤣
molgrips
Full MemberYeah, there are roads that just aren’t wide enough – so I’ll give you that one :). Hyundai had a button by the driver’s knee to turn it off. The Leaf doesn’t, but it you can leave the menu on the page where you can quick turn it off, and it will stay on that page across restarts.
In other news – £22k for a 200-mile EV, anyone?
They're saying £23K now (very good price still). Good to see some cheap 'name brand' EV runarounds hitting the market with a decent range.
Glad it has buttons for the air con, as this is touchscreen only on on my wife's C4 and the software is rage inducingly bad.
My lane assist is OFF by default... I don't use it as it's a bit annoying..
Have you figured out how to turn it off by default?
DrP
No..?
Hyundai had a button by the driver’s knee to turn it off.
On the Ioniq5 it’s on the steering wheel so more convenient. Short press to remove the warning noise/suppress the HUD AR from going full disco, long press to suppress the Lane Departure Assist (aka the violent steering wheel tug*) I do keep it on for motorways and long drives, but anything local round here it is constantly going bat-shit crazy.
*not a euphemism
i’ll look into my settings in the morning.
It’s certainly doable (as i can be proof of!)
my lane assist button is in the trio of buttons with the ‘flap open’ button…
Is yours on by default then?
DrP
Either I'm a very neat driver (not likely) or the Kia lane assist is less intrusive as I really don't notice it beeping much on A/B roads (and I always indicate changing lanes on dual carriage way/motorways)
It’s not necessarily about being neat, though definitely helps. The main road through our village narrows to one lane wide in places so lane straddling inevitable. Same for most of the villages round here. (Old Pennine mill-town area.)
I think the Kia system wouldn't cause an issue in those circumstances - we all straddle white lines all the time when driving and I really haven't registered any beeping or auto steering. With our Kia I think it needs to see a white line on both sides before lane assist comes on. So normal road with just a centre line it's not active, same road with a bike lane it would be on.
For anyone with an i4 (or probably most BMWs from the last year or two) you can’t turn lane keep assist off permanently at least in UK models and there isn’t a dedicate button for it.
The best you can do is set up a shortcut and then use the iDrive controller to switch it off each time. If the shortcut in in position 1 then two movements of the iDrive controller does it. It’s become muscle memory now. I made a quick video showing it as I got fed up of trying to explain it
https://youtube.com/shorts/eNcw8MmxxNU?si=zocpItluzeNQhFMp
If your car has the latest 5* safety rating then you shouldn’t be able to switch lane assist off permanently I’ve been told.
Has anyone had a Chevy Volt/Vauxhall Ampera? I'm thinking about ditching Oliver Reed for something more economical and I can charge for free at work so some sort of electric vehicle makes sense for commuting but it will also have to cover biking duties which excludes any full EVs I can afford. i3 REx is also a contender; has anyone successfully used one for LLS bike transport? An Outlander PHEV on paper looks ideal but based on the other thread I'm not sure it ticks the economical box.
I'd be looking at a Passat GTE. How far is your work commute?
it will also have to cover biking duties which excludes any full EVs I can afford.
Hmm, what's the budget?
For anyone with an i4 (or probably most BMWs from the last year or two) you can’t turn lane keep assist off permanently at least in UK models and there isn’t a dedicate button for it
Why is this an issue ? Because it forces you to use the indicators ?
The Ampera was a fantastic car and way ahead of its time (if you can get over the Tron interior) but I'd be a bit wary of them now. They are getting pretty long in the tooth and a newer one is quite hard to find and even that will be almost 10 years old. The warranty was an incredible 8 years but all will be out now....even back in the day only a few vauxaul garages could deal with them, one of the big complaints buyers had. I love them and really wish i'd got one 8 years ago instead of my Leaf but I'd not buy one now unless it was silly cheap.
Hmm, what’s the budget?
Whatever I can get for the Mercedes and not a penny more from any funding source.
Hmm yeah the Ampera might be your only option. Not much else at that price except perhaps the plug-in Prius with a 15 mile range.
However, in terms of budget, you may be able to offset the fuel saving against the cost of the car. As I have said, we saved £90/m and the commute is only 13 miles.
I dunno Rick, looks fake to me...
www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/6584861664895045/
My FB feed is full of stupidly cheap scam adverts. Bonkers.
New Mazda MX5
^I may have misunderstood the clickbaitey link - its still a concept, and has a sort of rangeextender in the form of a hydrogen rotary engine...
Why is this an issue ? Because it forces you to use the indicators ?
On B roads and country lanes where it’s barely wide enough for two cars, it’s continually trying to put you in the ditch at the side of the road as it can see you’re too close to the centre white line. This is just one example.
I drive quite a lot of hire cars and the lane assist varies significantly between manufacturers and even between models. For some it is a gradually increasing resistance, other are more like someone’s grabbed the wheel or you’ve hit something.
That’s not an MX that’s an RX and a bloody lovely one at that. Twin rotaries as a generator with a smallish battery and a claimed 370bhp at 1.45t. I’d be amazed if it will run hydrogen. Efuels, sure, but hydrogen? Nah. Maybe as a blend, but pure H2 would require really heavy pressure vessels or cryogenics.
There's a video on Interesting Engineering YouTube channel about the BMW ICE test car that runs on hydrogen. They got it to work but it'll put you off the idea...!
Lots of comment floating around that new EV demand is cooling off. But also that used car prices have gone up a bit. I may have bought mine at the right time, which is probably a first in my life for anything. And if new car demand does fall then it'll be time for prices to drop which is what I hoped would happen.
The fires and insurance issues are no doubt having an effect...
I've test driven a couple of EVs recently, thinking about making the move.
How long does it take before you can make a journey without swearing at a giant screen? ID Buzz and Ioniq 5, both teeth gnashingly irritating and dangerous to use on the move. I can't fathom who it is who demands this stuff in a vehicle. It makes me want to just buy an old Volvo instead.
I wonder why Mazda prefer to use hydrogen thro' a rotary driven generator rather than straight into a fuel cell , so I assume there's a change in energy efficiency between the two methods.
Interest rates are what are beating up the car markets across Europe. I doubt the fires thing makes any difference outside the UK, even if there.
We’ve had our id3 for 2 years now. There are times when the screen still does my head in and times when I forget about it.
I still yearn for physical controls for heat and fan speed and the number of ‘clicks’ between selecting CarPlay instead of radio is daft.
But most of the time, once the lane ‘assist’ is off and you’re just driving, it’s just fine.
It won’t put me off having another one but I’d love it to be better.
I can’t fathom who it is who demands this stuff in a vehicle
The accountants, from what I've read
How long does it take before you can make a journey without swearing at a giant screen?<br /><br />
Not long tbh because there’s really very little you need to adjust when driving, assuming you remember to turn off the awful lane departure before you start driving. You might want to change the temperature up or down a degree and the volume. Other than that just plug your phone in, use CarPlay and control things by shouting at Siri.
I’m not defending it, it definitely doesn’t feel like a step in the right direction but something you’ll likely have to get used to if you don’t want to limit your choice of newer vehicles. The idrive controller & physical buttons in my outgoing BMW are better.
The idrive controller & physical buttons in my outgoing BMW are better.<br /><br />
BMW i4 has idrive….. and touchscreen, and everything other than heating can be done with the idrive. Heating can be adjusted by voice command to avoid using touchscreen while moving.
How long does it take before you can make a journey without swearing at a giant screen?
I don’t think I’ve ever sworn at the screen in our Tesla. I’ve sworn at the rubbish auto wipers and one or two irritating features, but the screen/interface just works. Five minutes in an iD3 and I was cursing the whole car.
ID Buzz and Ioniq 5, both teeth gnashingly irritating and dangerous to use on the move.
Learn how to use the voice commands. They do actually work. On our Hyundai once I'd worked out how to get it to tell you what commands it was expecting it wasn't too bad. But stuff like 'warmer' was an easy command.
Help me charge my car please 🙂
Despite owning an EV for 3 years & 40k miles we’ve only charged it at a public charger about 5 times, and only once out of necessity. Mostly charged at work and occasionally home.
Now the new one has a more useful range it’ll likely do some longer journeys that will require charging en-route. It won’t be a particularly regular thing.
I have an Octopus Electroverse account & card (and Charge Place Scotland).
First journey probably will be 450 miles down to Kent, will the Octopus account be all I need?
Cheers!
will the Octopus account be all I need?
I use the chargepoint app.
Worth looking at the Tesla open for all chargers as well.
Some of these apps hold a few quid in reserve which will probably be returned at the point where you unsubscribe to their services, I hope?
You get 20% off at Osprey chargers with Electroverse between 7 and 11pm. This may be of no use to you but might save you a few quid. I also got an account with my Polestar that gets me 30p rapid charging at Ionity. Nothing like that with your vehicle?
I've also rapid charged less than 10 times in a similar ownership time. When I have (and when I idly check Zapmap to plan ahead) motorway services seem much more heavily used than places a few miles off trunk roads. Can you take a granny charger and use that at your destination?
A debit card is all you need on main routes. I've only ever found one rapid charger that needed an app, a regional provider in an out-of-the-way place (Dragon Charging). I just flash my debit card and proceed. However, you need to be aware that's there are usually two card readers - one for a card account/phone app, and another for actual debit card. Confused me a few times that.
That said, you might get a discount with Octopus.
The accountants, from what I’ve read
Yeah, you only need a couple of versions of controller, a network/CANbus connection and "x" number of screens (small, medium, large?) and you can create 30-40-50 completely different HMIs across a dozen platforms and multiple brands. And update them regularly, and keep them compliant with new legislation. Same with digital DIMs.
Buttons and dials are inflexible, expensive, and even more expensive to change or update. (I could, for instance, download a completely new HMI system while charging my shiny, fancy pants, touchscreen BEV.)
The idrive controller & physical buttons in my outgoing BMW are better.
They should be ****ing better, they're on about the 19th generation now, they've spent millions (if not a whole billion) and 20+ years trying to get it to work properly.
The original (7 series, 2001 FFS) was utterly useless (i was briefly working for BMW back then), and the 8-10 years of subsequent development took it to merely frustratingly bad. Last one i played with (2022MY) wasn't bad at all, which given the development time, i'm not surprised.
Agree. AI wipers are generally OK, but sometimes awful. Wish they’d learn how water-free I like the screen.
Voice commands 👍👍
Also just touching bits of the screen. I was surprised some years back when I tapped the lights telltale symbol and a mini lights menu popped up. Made me feel rather foolish at previous efforts to put the fog lights on by tapping the ‘car’ menu and the. Tapping the rear/front fog light buttons.
Sadly ‘turn on the fog lights’ isn’t recognised as a voice command. Unlike ‘my passenger’s butt is cold’ which naturally turns up the seat heater.
@phil5556 was the car new? Most come with a scheme that gives preferentially rates at most operators. My BMW card covers the BP scheme and IONITY. If not new, then there may still be a manufacturers scheme you can join. May not be worth it if you don’t do a lot of long journeys though. I’ve only used public three times since my wall box was put and probably won’t renew once my free year is over. My experience of Tesla for all hasn’t been great. Slow charging rates compared to advertised and dodgy connectors.
AI wipers are generally OK, but sometimes awful. Wish they’d learn how water-free I like the screen.
AI? Mine just have knobs to adjust how clean you want the screen.
Re iDrive, is that like the knob on Mercedes? It's a little clumsy at times but the fact it's close to my hand is good. Means I don't have to lean forward. And that means the screen can be further away which makes it easier to look at whilst trying to focus on the road.
It's worth learning how to use voice commands though. Get in, drive off, then tell the car where you want to go. Once you learn what it's expecting you to say, they generally work. Hyundai didn't give on screen prompts, but Nissan and Merc do which really helps.
Re iDrive, is that like the knob on Mercedes?<br /><br />
Yes it’s a twisty control knob to navigate the screen & menus etc. It works really well.
A debit card is all you need on main routes. I’ve only ever found one rapid charger that needed an app, a regional provider in an out-of-the-way place (Dragon Charging). I just flash my debit card and proceed.
Ta. Last time I looked into it (before getting the i3) you needed a whole load of apps & cards. I’ll keep the Octopus one with payment attached and hopefully a debit card will sort any others out.
You get 20% off at Osprey chargers with Electroverse between 7 and 11pm. This may be of no use to you but might save you a few quid. I also got an account with my Polestar that gets me 30p rapid charging at Ionity. Nothing like that with your vehicle?<br /><br />
Any discount is handy if I happen to be travelling at the right time 👍
And yes VW comes with We Charge which seems to get a discount on some. It won’t accept my payment details to actually set it up though 🙄
Worth looking at the Tesla open for all chargers as well. <br /><br />
I’ll check this out cheers. I’ve seen that Tesla now let non Teslas use some of their chargers. They do seem to have their network sorted.
was the car new? Most come with a scheme that gives preferentially rates at most operators. <br /><br /><br />
Yes new car and comes with VW We Charge, struggling to set it up at the moment. Looks like the free account gets a slight discount and different monthly plans get more off. We won’t use it enough to make it worth paying monthly.
Last one i played with (2022MY) wasn’t bad at all, which given the development time, i’m not surprised.<br /><br />
My 2012 330D and 2020 i3S both worked flawlessly.
@phil5556 I find it's definitely still worth prioritising the charger networks with the best reputations. ie instavolt, Osprey, Tesla. Also possibly add Gridserve, MFG, Ionity. Don't know what Charge Place Scotland is like these days. Geniepoint are terrible round these parts, but the units are gradually being replaced by the new owners, I think they are prioritising units in Morrisons car parks. BP and Shell chargers are still hit and miss.
(if it hasn't happened already, I'm sure I read somewhere that Instavolt are being added to the Octopus RFID card)
Don’t know what Charge Place Scotland is like these days
Depends on location. Pricing is all over the place depending on atea and generally 50kW is the fastest you’ll find. Weird charging points as it has a lot of nhs and council properties in it. It’s more of a universal payment system than a coherent network but works well for only needing one card that covers all of Scotland. Used it a lot before my wallbox went in.
Finally after almost 8 months my Q4 arrived tonight. Looking forward to trying her out tomorrow.
AI? Mine just have knobs to adjust how clean you want the screen
Apparently so. A few years back Tesla removed the IR rain sensor in their designs and spent time training the system to recognize the rain intensity using camera data. Musk tweeted something like ‘trained on 1000s of different types of rain’. Unsure if that set contained British rain.
https://electrek.co/2019/10/14/tesla-deep-rain-neural-net-automatic-wipers/
There are still options for slow, medium, and fast wiping at what I suppose are fixed rates. And an on demand button at the end of the stalk (I assume this is an option on the wheel for the new stalkless models). Using AutoPilot always shifts to AI-based wiping. This seems reasonable - if it gets hard to see then the machine should get to choose when to wipe. Though I’m hoping the cameras can see better than I can!
https://www.teslarati.com/elon-musk-apologizes-tesla-auto-wipers/amp/
I never found my MBs’ auto wiper setting satisfactory so I don’t get quite as worked up as some folks do.
I'll take one:
I’ll take one:
Ohh, now we're talking. That article mentions it will be "among a slew of fast EV estate cars when it launches next year", which is music to my ears - I'm out of the loop, what would the others be? I know it's market led, but the lack of estates in favour of SUV shaped things has always bummed me out.
what would the others be?
There's an electric 5 series which will also be avaialable in estate form, it has been confirmed. £70k+ though!
That ID.7 is all well and good, but can VW pleeeeeease bring out an ID.Caddy on the same platform 😫
Can't find the space toddler's eponymous thread but:
- His stupid pickup truck has no airbags which means, unless he backs down, it can't be type approved in the EU, North America or large parts of the rest of the world,
- It's GVW exceeds 3500kg so you can't drive it without a C1 license which most people under 40 don't have
Ahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Ooh...you lot seen teh Volvo EX30.. can get the 440BHP version for £44k in the top spec trim... that's a LOT of money, but is rather cheap for a high spec EV...
The carwow review wasn't super impressed.. the touchscreen seemed to annoy mat watson a fair bit!
DrP
On the other hand Jonny Smith seemed very impressed with the EX30, with the exception of driver info all being on the stupid single central screen rather than visible in front of the driver - which is a pet peeve of mine and why I'd never consider buying a Model 3. I also love his attitude to coupe SUV things - totally agree they need to get in the bin.
His stupid pickup truck has no airbags
What??!
Re the EX30, it looks like a great car for the price. I hope people hate the display and no-one wants to buy one which would depress the used prices enough. I'm quite accommodating when it comes to stuff like that. Mind you, it would drive my wife insane and I am not sure I could deal with that 🙂
I hope people hate the display and no-one wants to buy one
Ha! Ditto!
I'm normally keen to adopt new tech and ideas... but... I struggle to see how having EVERYTHING (IIRC there's NIL on the normal 'dash location') on the big middle screen is good...
Speedo - middle screen
Control wing mirrors - middle screen
Control HVAC - middle screen..
Call me old fashioned, but having speed in eyeline (or down a bit) seems much safer than having to look right all the time?
And i'd go mad having to go through 3 screens to turn heating up/down...
DrP
You don't have to go through three screens on the EX30, there's a permanent bar on the bottom. The real issue is the speedo. But I could probably live with it if the car were that good - and the model with the high towing capacity is also the ludicrously quick 4WD one.. My Prius had a touch screen before it was cool, and simple green 7-segment display just behind the steering wheel that projected onto a mirror just under the dash. It looked like it was on the dash, so not a HUD, but as far as your eyes were concerned it was like 2m away which meant much less focus adjusting. Brilliant idea. Volvo should do the same.
The rear legroom is more of a deal breaker tbh.
Call me old fashioned, but having speed in eyeline (or down a bit) seems much safer than having to look right all the time?
Our old Yaris had a centre mount speedo high and set back on the dash. It had some clever lens on it and angled to the driver. As you looked ahead you could see it in peripheral vision without needing to refocus.
The lower, Gert big tablet on the dashboard has none of this.
So central speedometer I'm ok with, tablet version I'm not.
ID Buzz and Ioniq 5, both teeth gnashingly irritating and dangerous to use on the move. I can’t fathom who it is who demands this stuff in a vehicle.
Apparently the new CEO of VW admitted that the current generation of VW's was designed by engineers and bean counters ignoring what the customers told them and requested. He's promised to turn this around and put buttons and simpler controls back in....
Sorry, last post replying to this thread while I read it.
Has anyone seen some of the news about new battery tech coming through? I wonder if this is also causing folk to hold off on purchasing a new EV.
For example - Toyota talking about 20% more range, 20-40% less cost and 10-20min charging times, all from a solid state and less environmentally damaging battery. By 2026...
https://media.toyota.co.uk/toyota-sets-out-advanced-battery-technology-roadmap/
Not sure if it’s been covered up thread but our ID3 has a row of buttons (touch not physical but can’t have everything) for basic stuff like heat, fan speed, etc. great.. BUT the **** things aren’t backlit! Unbelievable oversight. So you can only use them during hours of daylight FFS.
The only thing worse than this is when it kicks me out of gear into park while reversing if you even slightly unweight the drivers seat. Coupled with me living on a busy main road near a corner and reversing into the drive it’s very dangerous indeed! It has in the past done it THREE TIMES in one manoeuvre. I was ready to burn it to the ground that evening.
Other than those two monumental issues its been a great car 🙂
It’s getting replaced with an EQA soon though as there were some great deals on my salary sacrifice scheme. I’m not a fan of SUVs whatsoever but they don’t make an equivalent hatch, it’s mainly my wife driving it, it’s the smallest one they do and not offensively large/tall. Footprint isn’t a lot more than the ID and the boot is a tiny bit smaller!