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Build it and they will come, and all that
Not in this case. Hydrogen isn't the answer. I used to think it was then I learned about the problems.
Weirdly, the only cars at each one were the Toyotas
Not weird when you consider that the only company that makes hydrogen cars is Toyota.
A family was killed this way. It was considered surprising that touching the brakes didn’t kill the throttle automatically, as it does in other cars.
Essentially, touching the brakes kills the throttle because of the Lexus issue, before Lexus there were only a handful of manufacturers who had Brake Override Accelerator. It's now a legally mandated feature.
The Lexus thing also drove the implementation of several other software development QA processes. ISO 26262 for starters.
wonder if it had been an ICE it could have been put into neutral
Nope, most modern architecture at that point (shifter stack) is all but identical in operation between ICE and BEV.
Not sure if i'm mixing up two separate cases - but this sounds like the panic around toyota's that wouldn't slow down in the US. That was initially reported as a car fault, then an issue with floor mats and after a few years of investigation it was found that the problem was just people pressing the wrong pedal and panicking.
This podcast about it is pretty interesting
The brake override isnt mandatory, although lots of manufacturers have implemented it voluntarily. From memory, in that podcast they did some tests - basically showing that if you push the brake pedal, whether you are accelerating or not, the car slows and /or stalls. I have no idea whether this is the same for EV as ICE- I presume the stall mechanism isn't the same.
The brake override isnt mandatory, although lots of manufacturers have implemented it voluntarily.
Yes, just checked, last time i signed off on it was for 20 or 21MY, it's now been withdrawn as there was 100% coverage in the US. Don't know much more than that.
From memory, in that podcast they did some tests – basically showing that if you push the brake pedal, whether you are accelerating or not, the car slows and /or stalls.
Only if you have BOA installed, are making a concerted effort to stop or have a weedy engine. Get something with a lot of grunt, or drag the brakes for a bit to "slow safely" and you're SOOL, cooking brakes doesn't take long if you're still on the accelerator!
Not sure if i’m mixing up two separate cases – but this sounds like the panic around toyota’s that wouldn’t slow down in the US. That was initially reported as a car fault, then an issue with floor mats and after a few years of investigation it was found that the problem was just people pressing the wrong pedal and panicking.
At least 6 or 7 cases. Probably more. Floor mats, bad ergonomics, bad software and bad components have all been root causes.
I reckon it’ll turn out to be as simple as he engaged adaptive cruise control without realising and then panicked and pressed the wrong pedal. This would explain why the car stopped with the Police van in front of it without any actual contact and damage, and why it pottered along at 15mph.
Presumably though like most cars, adaptive cruise control turns off as soon as you touch the brake so unless he really was very stupid this wouldn’t happen.
Certainly wouldn’t have been in the news if it wasn’t electric.
Some quality regional reporting there, the line is the clear stand out though,
Mr Morrison has mobility issues, so he was unable to escape the car travelling at 30mph by jumping out.
If you didn't have mobility issues, I think jumping from a moving car at 30mph would be a pretty good way to develop them.
Presumably though like most cars, adaptive cruise control turns off as soon as you touch the brake so unless he really was very stupid this wouldn’t happen.
That's what I thought – as soon as you press the brake pedal, the cruise control automatically disengages and you have to press a button to restart it.
bensales
Free Member
I reckon it’ll turn out to be as simple as he engaged adaptive cruise control without realising and then panicked and pressed the wrong pedal. This would explain why the car stopped with the Police van in front of it without any actual contact and damage, and why it pottered along at 15mph.
What makes you think there was no contact? I read it as the police drove in front of his car at 29 and gradually slowed to a stop.
^^^^ report says there was no damage to either car, so any contact must've been very soft to not crease a bumper or remove any paint.
iainc
Full Member
^^^^ report says there was no damage to either car, so any contact must’ve been very soft to not crease a bumper or remove any paint
Yes i know but what I've suggested would be very soft contact?
Anyway the story has now made the beeb
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-67005620
yes, my link yesterday was to the bbc website.
Oh weird, i was certain I read it on a local news site. As you were!
Eta that was on the pistonheads.com thread. Fwiw their best
current theory is that he was somewhere he wasn't supposed to be and came up with an implausible story to his wife at short notice
It wasn’t my fault - my car kidnapped me!
Just picked up my MG4 and after a quick trip down the A1 I am really loving it. And this morning I turned on the a/c to pre-heat it using the app while I was sitting on the toilet - what a time to be alive !! 🙂
Octopus installed an Ohme charge point. They were initially quoting a 15 week wait but it was installed in about 5, which was not too much of a problem.
Now I'm wondering what bits and bobs I need to carry in the boot. It comes with a granny lead. I'm wondering if there is a point in having a type 2 cable, since (most? all? ) charge points are tethered? I have also ordered a V2L adapter which seems like a handy thing to have around. Anything else I need to consider beyond the warning triangle, hi viz and whatnot that you need in a fossil car ?
I never bother carrying the granny charger around unless I’m going on holiday. I always have a 10m Type 2 cable in the car though, as there a lots of car parks that have slow chargers that need a cable and 10m is great if they’re ICEd.
I just carry a 3m Type 2 as most AC chargers round here aren’t tethered.
10m would probably make parking space choice easier but it’s a big roll of cable (I have that size for my untethered home box) and the 3m fits nicely in the boot cubby.
Have never even unwrapped the granny charger never mind take it with me.
DrJ
Full Member
Just picked up my MG4 and after a quick trip down the A1 I am really loving it. And this morning I turned on the a/c to pre-heat it using the app while I was sitting on the toilet – what a time to be alive !! 🙂
Interesting. Which version did you get? We are looking at one to replace an iD3. Head says Extended Range, heart says X-Power obviously. Both cheaper than iD3.
I got the Trophy LR. The ER seemed to be a big price bump. We've had many VWs in the past so we also looked at the iD3 but it was 10K more once we'd added in the extras we'd want.
The 1000 mile results were achieved today. Average speed 25mph, 4.2wh/mile.
150 mile days out are a breeze, today we returned home with 50 miles remaining from 197mile range at start on a 140 mile round trip to Hardwick hall with a National Trust free ticket.
I carry the type 2 cable at all times but doubt i'll use it unless there is free charging. Tiny tool kit and a microfiber cloth for occasionally wiping the dust off the sat nav screen.
I have also ordered a V2L adapter which seems like a handy thing to have around.
I didn't realise the MG4 did V2L, how much does the adaptor cost and what's the output limit? could you run a number of household items off it?
I bought one off eBay for about 20 quid. It's on its way just now so I'll be able to give a better evaluation shortly. I'm not sure what it is the output limit tbh but I've seen social media posts with folk powering all sorts of stuff off them.
Dunno about the MG but the Kia/Hyundai/Genesis eGMP cars can output 3.6 kW through the V2L system.
edit: a quick google suggests the MG output is 2.2kW
Used the granny a few times on previous cars when staying at friends or holiday cottages but with more range these days and more having proper charge points I've not needed it on this one. Always thought of it as a worthwhile emergency thing - everywhere has a 3-pin plug.
Type 2 lead is worth having IMO, when away you sometimes find a 7kW in a carpark and a slow top up to 100% while you're doing something else can make a journey back much easier. Always plenty around secondhand as cars get sold or written off, I paid £60 for a barely-used extra one to leave on my untethered chargepoint.
Don't know what screenwash they put in those but the extra low freezing point stuff is worth putting in for winter, there isn't a hot engine next to the bottle to keep it from freezing.
In the Leaf need the granny charger at my mum's who is a literal granny, just to give a bit of headroom to get home. The only time I used it on the Hyundai was when we went to a holiday caravan - drove over there then the car didn't move for a few days. It needed an extension lead trailed out of the window though.
I've done the majority of my Leaf charging via a granny charger for all the time I've owned it,... advantages of a small battery and having a garage and space to charge overnight most nights.
Re. killer cars - when I was a teenager - early 80's - a local wag tried his usual trick of starting his car, jumping out and jumping back , but stuffed it up. It broke his ankle and crashed into the war memorial in the middle of town.
I've had a PodPoint installed this morning and looking to switch over to Octopus Intelligent tariff, which I appear not to be intelligent enough to master...
No luck online and now I've been guided to 'use the app'. There seem to be several apps related to Octopus!
Going back online and I found another route but its asking me if I have a SMETS1 or SMETS2 smart meter? I have a smart meter but that was installed by Ovo at the beginning of 2018. Any idea how I would tell if that is SMETS 1 or 2?
Thanks
It’s about the data network these use - 1 = mobile phone network, 2 = different bespoke data network so will often still work if you rubbish mobile signal. You can look up how to tell the difference, starting with serial number but also appearance and number of lights etc.
If you don’t have an Ohme charger you’ll need a compatible car for IO to work.
There is only the one Octopus Energy app btw.
Thanks - still frustrating! They tell me that my car is compatible and then I get chucked back into the 'main menu' on the app, which doesn't list Intelligent tariffs in the options available to me.
This video is a step by step guide to setting up IO with the Ohme charger. It isn't 100% applicable to your situation, but there may be some useful pointers!
You have to sign up for normal Octopus first, I think, then switch to Intelligent once you're on their system.
They tell me that my car is compatible
It could be your phone that's the problem. When I tried to set up my Tesla Model Y on Intelligent Octopus with the app running on my Android phone the Octopus app refused to interface with the Tesla App. Quick Google later and it seems there's a problem with the Octopus app running on Android. I tried again using iOS on my iPad and got Octopus talking to Tesla. Once set up its now working fine on my Android phone.
I can’t remember the exact process but I was on a standard Octopus tariff first. Then just went through the process online, picked the car and model, and it does a test charge to start talking to the car and you’re done.
If you’re having trouble their customer service number is pretty good.
Thanks - seems I'm there now. It all went blank and back to the menu then half an hour later an email arrived! Not sure if the test charge ws happening in the intervening period but the car was already plugged in, so maybe! All done, thanks for help.
Hey, on the thread about the Luton car park fire EVs were touched on. Not looking to start that argument but more on the rhetoric i've had from a couple of mates about the weight of EVs doing more damage to roads than ICE.
Seems there's been a bit of research showing on average around 20% extra weight in small, medium and large categories so accepting that on face value I wonder if there's other factors to consider?
I went looking for the obvious one but couldn't find any research - which is that for whatever reason I assume when moving to an EV you downscale (i.e for me it would be moving from a SUV to something like a leaf). Is that a reasonable assumption?
What else? - fuel leaks/fumes damaging the surfaces? EVs being driven more conservatively than ICE due to range constraints and general chilled vibe of an EV?
I think that road wear is proportional to the fourth power of weight. So a little bit of extra weight adds a lot more wear, BUT lorries, busses and even small goods vehicles are responsible for nearly all the road damage, so a bit extra from cars many not be that big of a deal.
which is that for whatever reason I assume when moving to an EV you downscale (i.e for me it would be moving from a SUV to something like a leaf). Is that a reasonable assumption?
No, I don't think so. Big SUV EVs are currently selling well.
EVs being driven more conservatively than ICE due to range constraints and general chilled vibe of an EV?
I suspect due to the ease of access to power, EVs are driven in a more damaging way (ie applying more of their available torque, which is often far higher than an ICE). Damage is caused by weight but also by force going through the wheel - have a look at uphill drags away from traffic lights on trunk roads to see what happens.
the vast majority of petrol car drivers almost never use more than half the power available from their cars (ie : most change up below 3,500rpm, most of the time) whereas just pushing your foot down in an EV is much easier.
So I think higher wear is inevitable, but probably also marginal compared to properly large vehicles
Thanks for the measured views, they're valuable
I think it can be the opposite, the low fuelling costs take away one of the reasons to go smaller.
Battery size is a big factor - a Model 3 standard range is lighter than a 320d, but the long range / AWD version adds over 200kg. Going from 58kwh to 77kwh ID3 adds over 100kg. I'm hoping as people get their heads around range and charging (and there are more big hubs on key routes) that the norm is for smaller, lighter batteries rather than the demands for ever more range.
Seems there’s been a bit of research showing on average around 20% extra weight in small, medium and large categories so accepting that on face value I wonder if there’s other factors to consider?
We have a 2013 renault megane and a hyundai ionic EV. Similar size vehicles but the renault actually has a (only slightly) higher dry kerb weight than the EV which surprised me. Imagine its due to fluids and manual gearbox in the renault, and a bit of nearly 10years of tech advances in the hyundai.
Or the fact the roads are in pretty poor state of repair and its only getting worse with cuts and poor repairs.
@simon_g. Ah yes, another counter point I'd not considered (cheap to run so lets go large). Yes, my bro somehow makes a Nissan Leaf 2015 work for his trips from Berlin to UK and we both have EV-mopeds so are very much in the same thinking re: direction of EVs should be smaller in both scale and battery.
@SirHC. Yes, not inconceivable that it's an attempt to steer away from that subject. I can't say around here that I notice that - the roads have always been utter bobbins, I had a lovely little Smart Roadster coupe that turned out to have wheels made of cheese, had to sell it as it couldnt handle the state of the roads and that's 5, no 10, no 15yrs back
Passat saloon TDI auto - 1520kg
Mercedes CLS shooting brake - 1800kg
Nissan Leaf 40kWh 1600kg
Hyundai Ioniq EV - 1580kg IIRC
VW Touareg up to 2440kg
Range Rover 2328 to 2810kg
Audi Q8 up to 2270kg
etc
Those cars clearly aren't like for like, of course, but the point is not many petrol heads were complaining about the weight of range rovers in the good old ICE days were they?
They're an interesting line up. I think many people who haven't been in a Leaf underestimate how big it is inside so I don't see them as unfair size wise (maybe quality but that's a different argument). No idea on those bigger/more expensive vehicles, nearest I'd get to one is perhaps being allowed to clean it lol
I wonder how that research came up with ~20% and whether it was taking the heaviest/largest battery variant.
which is that for whatever reason I assume when moving to an EV you downscale (i.e for me it would be moving from a SUV to something like a leaf). Is that a reasonable assumption?
Apart from "getting the biggest car on lease you can afford for £x/month" why would anyone want to make that swap?
Someone's need for an SUV (whether people carrying/load carrying/towing; preference in driving position/feel; or just plain showing off) isn't going to change regardless of drivetrain.
If anything its the other way, due to the way current EV models seem to scale size with other desirable features like performance, range and general interior niceness. I understand why they do this, both for market sense, and physical practicallity, but I can see how someone perfectly happy in a ICE Mini might need an ID3 to match their needs, or going from Golf to P*2 for example.
Well there are like for like comparisons - a Q8 etron is 2,585 and a Q7 is up to 2,165
I went from an A6 estate to an eTron as there we no suitable estates from any manufacturer at the time. I'll go back to an estate if/when they make an ev one. Although the Kia 6 looks like it might fit the bill as my next car.
Similar here, I went from i3 to Polestar 2. Which is a leap forward on most fronts, but much bigger and heavier. I'll be back in a hatchback when lease ends and something better is available. EX30 would have been perfect bar the no driver display.
Yup, I’d have had an i4 estate rather than the iX3 I bought but the boot shape of the hatch just didn’t work for me. Seems like the manufacturers are either going hatch/coupe or suv with no estates as far as I could see. Hybrid versions yes, but no pure electric.
I think they are trying to recoup maximum profit from their investments so far and make more investments to position themselves for cheaper cars when everyone with deep pockets or a company car scheme already has one.
Anyone on here running an MG4? what's the opinion?
one or two second hand coming up at under £20k, which I might be able to afford. I like the idea of V2L
Yup, I’d have had an i4 estate r
Same here. I went with the i4, but would have had an estate version if it was offered. Maybe an i5 estate if it’s affordable would be even better.
The SUV style car just doesn’t work for me. A bit bigger boot (but vertically rather than horizontally) but range suffers. I had an ETron for 9 months and struggled with the 179-200 mile range.
Maybe an i5 estate if it’s affordable would be even better.
Looking at the price of i5 saloons on my company scheme, I don’t think ‘affordable’ is anywhere in the product brief. I don’t mind EVs being a bit more expensive than petrol equivalents because the running costs are so much lower, but either BMW or Arval are royally taking the piss.
There is going to be a VW iD7 estate, apparently - think Passat with iD5 styling.
BMW i5s are lovely but insanely expensive. Sure, batteries cost a lot, but not that much. It's nearly £20k more than a 520i.
Have had an i4 for a few months, which replaced a diesel Q5. I don’t miss the Audi at all, probably will miss the 4WD on a few days through the winter but I tend to work from home more than I used to so commuting in snow and ice not really required.
It a bit of a nuisance to have to take front wheel off road and gravel bike to get in the back, but very much a 1st world grumble, and I do have towbar and rack for when it’s MTB or passengers in car.
fuel now costs me £2.10 per 100 miles though 😁
Not strictly EV related, but Dogger Bank produced its first power this week.
Seen nothing in the news about it 🤷♂️ The scale of this project is incredible.
I wonder if we'll see a change in the renewable percentage as it comes online?
Each rotation of the first turbine’s 107m long Haliade-X blades can produce enough clean energy to power an average home for two days.
Strewth.
So as predicted, I've just had my renewal letter through from John Lewis and despite covering my Leaf for the last 3 years (with no claims) they are no longer able to provide me with cover as I'm driving an EV. Hilariously they will happily cover my hybrid which also has a battery.....
This despite their trumpeted green credentials including:
I've had my Leaf for almost 8 years and insurance has ranged from £175 to £200 fully comp, protected no claims. Cheapest quote I just got on meerkat was £300. What a scam. Now loads of people have EV's I'm sure we'll see prices for insurance skyrocket. When it comes time to replace it as our local runaround car, I'll probably go for a small efficient ULEZ 3cyl petrol like a Polo.
ooh..this is interesting and worrying...
DrP
Anyone on here running an MG4? what’s the opinion?
Only had mine a week, my first EV, and so far I'm really enjoying the experience. There are some small niggly things that could be improved - the auto lights thing seems to imagine it's always night, the Bluetooth keeps disconnecting, the rear visibility is not great if you don't remove the rear headrests, some people find the lane assist intrusive, but I test drove an iD3 and an eCorsa and I'm happy I made the right choice.
Headlights coming on and lane assist are the two little things most people with an MG4 mention (myself included), been driving it for 10 months now and pretty happy with it. Mines the SE SR spec so the smaller battery but having come from EVs that do much less miles per charge having 200+ (nearer 250 in summer) means I'm planning trips like an ICE car. I've a few rattles starting but nothing like the ZS EV or Renault Zoe I had before and mine was pretty much the second shipment of cars thanks to lucking into a cancellation.
the Bluetooth keeps disconnecting
Bugger, that's the one thing I hoped wouldn't be said.
The lights and lane assist I could cope with as my ID3 is the same (altho you can adjust the lights sensitivity on the ID3).
Anyone on here running an MG4? what’s the opinion?
one or two second hand coming up at under £20k, which I might be able to afford. I like the idea of V2L
We've put 8k miles on ours since April so given it a fair run in now.
It's a decent car- it's had no issues in this time and drives well. It's just a perfectly normal mid sized hatch that stacks up favourably to anything else.
What version are you looking at? Mine is the LR version and the efficiency is not industry leading IME, especially for motorway driving. The nameplate range is 283miles but in reality for us that's more 190 - 250miles depending on conditions and route. I expect nearer to 200miles if it's motorway driving.
We’ve got an mg4 - it’s great. Easy to drive, pleasant to drive and more acceleration than a golf gti.
A
Now loads of people have EV’s I’m sure we’ll see prices for insurance skyrocket.
I dunno what’s going on with insurance but I just renewed my EV and ICE insurance and both have doubled. So from my perspective it’s not a problem peculiar to EVs despite the headlines I’ve seen.
and ICE
Strange, it seems all over the place - my renewal a fortnight back on a PHEV was maybe £30 more (£530) and then shopping around went down to £350 like for like
I'm still EV curious but pretty sure my next purchase will not be ICE range and battery degradation have been worries the latter because it'd be an outright purchase not a lease. (I think).
Seems that battery degradation isn't the worry I was making it out to be, see below. So in the real world is there noticeable issues with battery?
"Most modern, liquid-cooled EV batteries being made today should last at least 300,000 miles, with Elon Musk claiming in 2019 that Tesla’s long-range Model 3 and Y batteries should cover 500,000, the whitepaper says. This lifespan is set to continue to increase, with academics who are close to Tesla unveiling one million and four million-mile batteries."
https://www.fleetnews.co.uk/news/electric-vehicle-battery-degradation-and-impact-on-residual-values-revealed
Our MG4 (smaller battery) has 3000 miles on it now. Had it since May.
- Lane assist is annoying. We turn it off when we get in the car.
- Had no issues with bluetooth. Rock solid on car play as well (which my Skoda definitely is NOT)
- We get around 4.4 m/kwh locally - a bit less when I'm driving 🙂 Expect it'll go down in winter. Agree with comment re Motorway, when we go up to Brum to see our daughter, it's down in the mid to high 3s
- No rattles or squeeks. Get the odd random warning on startup, but best just to ignore those!
– Lane assist is annoying. We turn it off when we get in the car.
I think this is standard in all/most new cars now, agree rather annoying, though once you get into the habit of switching it off every time it's ok. Same in my i4, a 3 click shortcut puts it off, until engine is stopped and car locked.
Corsa e colder weather efficiency results are in: 100 miles - around 3.3miles/KW.
Lights, wipers, heaters including seat and steering wheel, motorway speeds (0-70) and some hills.
Summer was around 4.2 so down around 25%.
Day trip range has been adjusted to nearer 140 miles and cost per mile is up to around 3p.
All figures and scenarios subject to change.
Headlights are way better than the other car and it is still very much cheaper per mile. So I'm happy.
Home to Northumberland yesterday, here for a few days midterm break. £2 of Octopus Energy to get us here, £16 to top up on arrival !
3.9 miles/kW, cruise on at 70 and 60 on motorway/dual and single carriageway respectively. Air on throughout. BMW i4 40.
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I did a trip to Blackpool and back, around 90 miles to come up with my conclusions!
The commute in the Corsa e which my partner does was producing similar results 10 mile round trip using around 25 miles of range but that was using the pre heat of the cabin option and sitting in traffic.
I advised her to cycle to work but that got a resounding no!
I went to my parents again yesterday in the Leaf. It was 10C outside and I had the heating set to 18C at first. The message in the energy usage page said "turn climate control off for an extra 0 miles". When I put it up to 21 it offwrent me an extra 1 mile. So when you have a heat pump it seems that warm vs chilly seems to make little difference. The most difference I saw was 5 miles in hot weather.
I tested the motorway efficiency on the A449/A40 from Newport to Monmouth, constant 70mph, undulating.average speed 68mph, 4.0 m/kWh
So long as you're within battery range, it seems to me that the reduced efficiency just isn't that big a deal. Sure, it might be more like 4p/mile than 3. Shrug.
If you suddenly find you can't do your journey without an extra stop and 80p/unit penalty charge, that's another matter.
The M25 charging infrastructure is getting a big upgrade - Cobham IONITY is adding 26 (!!!) new 350kw chargers and clacked lane is building a new charger bank too.
Apparently the Cobham IONITY is their busiest one on the network.
Cobham was impressive when I went there a couple of years ago. Hydrogen filling station too!
The last services I went to, I forget which in M42 was essentially filling a whole section of car park with chargers.
Driving up the A1 to Durham a few weeks ago I was pretty impressed by the options popping up. Fingers crossed!
A lot of my local petrol stations on the main roads are adding chargers too, mainly Shell and BP.
This was spotted in Ashby de la Zouche. Not seen it before - awesome!
A lot of my local petrol stations on the main roads are adding chargers too, mainly Shell and BP.
There are key petrol stations on the routes I drive regularly, out in the countryside so they're relatively large with amenities and a mini supermarket etc. The main one where I wished for a charging station installed some 6 months ago (BP) but none of the others have yet. I suspect it's harder to get the supply out in the countryside.
Wandering off the charger topic here. I was just near a Taycan on a quiet road. I find it weird that Porsche engineers spent time designing the (optional) fake ICE engine noises.
I guess many of us pegged cards to the chain stays of our BMXs back in the day for the sound. Thinking of the Taycan noise maybe it makes things more fun? Like the Tesla emissions test?
🤷🏻♂️
Wandering off the charger topic here. I was just near a Taycan on a quiet road. I find it weird that Porsche engineers spent time designing the (optional) fake ICE engine noises.
If it was at low (“walking”) speeds, it may well have been the AVAS (Acoustic Vehicle Alerting System).