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What kind of cost comparison does anyone have around a second hand ICE and a second hand electric car of same value?
If you were to recommend a small or midsize EV, what would it be at £5-10K? Zoe, Leaf, Ioniq or i3 seem the obvious ones,
well, a quick look on auto trader at Micra vs LEAF, it's about 9k for a 2019 micra, 14k for a leaf (similar ish miles, at about 25k miles)
DrP
What kind of cost comparison does anyone have around a second hand ICE and a second hand electric car of same value?
I looked at this. I consider a Leaf to be a similar size to a Qashqai inside, although not on the outside. I know it looks like a small car, but it's really not. I could not get a 4 year old Qasqai with 60k for the money I paid - however, I did get a good deal. Prices for the two cars are broadly similar give or take a bit, going by Autotrader.
A Micra is in no way comparable to a Leaf. There is plenty of room for two adults in the back of a Leaf.
But running costs for the Leaf are about £80 less per month for us, with a modest commute, which pays for half the loan we took out. So for the same monthly outlay we would only have been able to spend £5k which would have got us something much older.
If you were to recommend a small or midsize EV, what would it be at £5-10K?
That's a difficult price range because the older first generation cars are up to about £9-10k and they are all significantly flawed in one way or another, being early tech. The Leaf or the Zoe are your only options really. That said, you can get Leafs at the lower end of that and they are good as runabouts - although avoid the 2011-2013 ones, really.
You may be lucky as I was and get a second gen Leaf for that budget, which still has some flaws; or if you can stretch to £13k you have better options. I would rather have an Ioniq, I think the 28kWh versions are around that kind of price. It has proper battery management and a CCS plug. I had a 38kWh one; it had much better and more consistent range than my 40kwh Leaf.
well, a quick look on auto trader at Micra vs LEAF, it’s about 9k for a 2019 micra, 14k for a leaf (similar ish miles, at about 25k miles)
I am OK with a purchase difference - I think I am more considering overall costs over 3-5years of owning.
A Micra is in no way comparable to a Leaf. There is plenty of room for two adults in the back of a Leaf.
You know, I honestly thought they were the same platform!
Interesting..LEAF boot is about 50% bigger, and it's longer, wider, adn taller all round! You live and lean!
DrP
You know, I honestly thought they were the same platform!
Yeah the Leaf looks a lot smaller than it is. Go sit in the back of yours 🙂
a leaf is closer to a pulsar in size - eg small family hatch instead of a supermini. a 2018 pulsar (last year they sold them here) is about £10k
I hadn't seen the Pulsar - it looks an awful lot like a Leaf. Reviews suggest there's more room in one than a Golf, and my Leaf certainly seems bigger than my folks' previous Golf if memory serves.
I am OK with a purchase difference – I think I am more considering overall costs over 3-5years of owning.
I've just been doing some sums that may or may not be helpful;
Fuel: current petrol car 20p per mile, EV 2p per mile (£2,134 saving per year based on 12k miles)*
Insurance; very similar
VED; current petrol car £210 per annum, EV £0 per annum
Rough guess at annual running costs (service, tyres, MOT); current car ~£750 per year, EV maybe £250?
Depreciation - no idea!
One off cost of ~£800 for home charger for EV
*Fuel was based on current petrol car getting 37mpg and petrol @ £1.60 per litre. EV costs based on 4 miles/kWh car efficiency and 7.5p per kWh (eg. Octopus Intelligent night rate).
and 7.5p per kWh (eg. Octopus Intelligent night rate).
its worth noting that unless you already have a battery etc, switching to a tariff like that will likely increase the cost of your existing electricity usage - taking today as a snapshot, their smart rate is ~15% higher than their best "normal" tariff during the day, so you should figure in 15% increase in your leccy bill generally.
also I don't think the KWH you pay octopus for get translated 1:1 into kwh in your battery. there's a few transformations along the way which are unlikely to be lossless
depreciation can be estimated by looking at cars for sale. Cheapest 3 year old/30,000 mile leaf is £12k. They're £27k new (were maybe £24k 3 years back) - so you're looking at £4-5k/year in depreciation for a new car, plus finance costs. That roughly matches available lease costs - £350/month or so is £4200
Octopus intelligent has a fixed kWh price outside of the cheap night time rate.
I think it is very close to the SVR?
Standing charge might be different but I think it's around 50p/day each.
Any losses during battery charging are made up by regen braking 😉
I don't think leafs were ever sub £24k?
Can you actually buy a new one for £27k now?
<p style="text-align: left;">Scrap my stupidness.....</p>
It's the pulsar I WAS thinking of as similar to the leaf! Not the micra....
Yeah, they look identical on the road TBH!
DrP
its worth noting that unless you already have a battery etc, switching to a tariff like that will likely increase the cost of your existing electricity usage – taking today as a snapshot, their smart rate is ~15% higher than their best “normal” tariff during the day, so you should figure in 15% increase in your leccy bill generally.
also I don’t think the KWH you pay octopus for get translated 1:1 into kwh in your battery. there’s a few transformations along the way which are unlikely to be lossless
True, the Octopus day rate is marginally more than my current provider (Shell), but it's pretty minimal and can hopefully be cancelled out by shifting some other current usage (washing machine and dishwasher) to the night as well. Also I can charge for free at work in theory, so my EV cost per mile figures should actually be even better in reality.
current petrol car 20p per mile, EV 2p per mile
Are these really comparable cars being driven comparably? 20p per mile suggests you're heavy on the pedals or diving some sort of tank.
Tanking up the motorway at 85 you won't get great economy or range from most EVs. Though maybe it will still be ok for your uses.
Hmmmmm. My real world figures (Cmax Vs ENiro) on fuel-only coats are:
@45mpg (unwavering average I had from the car for 10+ years) and fuel at 1.60 per litre is 16p per mile.
@4.2m/kW (again unwavering average over the past 6000 miles) charged overnight on Octopus Go @9.5p/kw is 2.26p per mile.
Saving over 12k miles - £1,640
I don’t think leafs were ever sub £24k?
Can you actually buy a new one for £27k now?
not at list price, but they were around £23k pre-reg in 2020.
in fact, you can get a brand new one for £24k today
Are these really comparable cars being driven comparably? 20p per mile suggests you’re heavy on the pedals or diving some sort of tank.
Tanking up the motorway at 85 you won’t get great economy or range from most EVs. Though maybe it will still be ok for your uses.
No not comparable cars at all. I was providing figures that I had to hand in case they were helpful (and include the ICE cars consumptions, which is 37mpg). In my case it is not actually the case of replacing the ICE with an EV - unfortunately we need to get a second car and I was just doing some man maths to work out if I could justify the additional outlay of an EV for this 2nd car. I'm hoping half the miles I currently do in the ICE car can be shifted to the EV. Also, with free charging at work, I hope the cost per mile on the EV will actually be considerably less that the 2p I've allowed. for.
Worth noting that a cheap EV (old Leaf) may only have a 60 mile range. But with a bit more outlay you can get e.g. an Ioniq 38 with a 180 mile range. That allows you to use it much more. We used ours for everything except holidays and a few trips I took on my own or that needed to carry 4 adults.
For us, spending the extra on a 40kWh Leaf means we can use it on our day trips too e.g. visiting parents, whereas a gen1 would have required maybe two fast charges.
not at list price, but they were around £23k pre-reg in 2020.
in fact, you can get a brand new one for £24k today
Yeah, I was thinking original manufacturer RRP rather than a discounted price.
Yeah, tbh I am less impressed with the Leaf after a month of ownership. On a poor bit of road at 40mph it was pitching like a small boat on a choppy sea, front to back. The Ioniq was bouncy and softly sprung, but it didn't pitch like this.
#coilovers 😉
DrP
Honestly, not worth farting about with it.
I was thinking the other day though that the Ioniq would have been a lot better with lower profile tyres and sportier shocks. That would have handled really well I reckon.
From the looks of things, used EV prices are falling quicker than ICE cars, I was surprised, many 2-3 year old EV's are 50-60% less than their new price.
Not sure I have seen this covered elsewhere ?
So with yesterdays relaxation of dooms day for ICE vehicles, will this now force car manufactures to start selling EV's without such ridiculous sky high prices to maintain switch over to EV ?
Or does it not really change the change curve graph up or down ?
I saw yesterdays announcement as a kick up the arse to the car industry to start selling affordable cars again because actually it has made it a more competitive market place.
From the looks of things, used EV prices are falling quicker than ICE cars, I was surprised, many 2-3 year old EV’s are 50-60% less than their new price.
Yeah that happened very quickly recently but seems to have stabilised from what I can tell. And when you factor in fuel savings they become a really good bargain. It may well be because there seemed to be a transition from 2nd generation to 3rd generation cars in 2020/2021 and that meant a lot of cheap cars were bought to lease then. We leased ours in April 2021 and there were very quickly loads of really cheap lease deals on stuff like Ioniqs, Leafs and Zoes. These cars became available used in May/June so that's what caused a price drop I reckon. We may see another the same time next year as the three year deals come to an end.
will this now force car manufactures to start selling EV’s without such ridiculous sky high prices to maintain switch over to EV ?
My feeling was that the prices are high atm because the current supply is less than current demand, which seems driven by people getting lease cars from work. In a few years' time we'll see these cars come onto the second hand market in volume. Manufacturers seem to be focusing on higher value more premium cars because that's what's selling, and there's probably far more profit putting 70kWh worth of battery in one £60k car than two £30k cars.
The delay in the switch-over will probably delay the development of smaller cheaper cars. Although, VW are working on a significant new cheaper iD2 (280 miles of range, £22k release in 2025) and Tesla are doing the same.
I don't see it changing the trajectory much, most of the EU states were going for 2035 anyway. Fleet average CO2 fines still mean that no-one will be interested in selling you a cheap basic ICE car, it'll be expensive higher margin stuff so you'll get hammered for tax and likely the extra over-£40k VED too.
Engine development costs a fortune and many have decided to stop doing new ones - they'll go on with existing designs for as long as they can get away with it. Euro 7 is coming in 2025 (2030 for small volume manufacturers), some of those engines will be possible to get through, some won't. Those that do, it'll add even more cost on to a new ICE car. I suspect the vast majority of new diesels will go away then - it's already under 8% of the market for this year so far, and they'll be harder to meet euro 7. "ICE" cars will actually be petrol hybrids and PHEVs long before 2030.
In the meantime, the tax efficiency of EV company cars and salary sacrifice schemes will put plenty of affordable used EVs into the market, public charging will get better and better, more petrol stations will close, and more people will choose an EV.
I think it is very close to the SVR?
The Octopus Inteligent daily and per kw rate is pretty much 10% more than their std variable rate so that does need to be factored in if you can't move usage away from peak.
If I were making a fair comparison I'd be tempted to compare it to the historically 30% less than their tracker rate offers [I guess that may not be so fair as Inteligent is at least fixed a little being a variable rate tariff], apportioning the capital outlay/opportunity cost/inflation on any solar/battery/EV investment. I appreciate that's hard but without it the "haha it costs me 1p/mile you ICE suckers" really is meritless. Just my view
molgrips
Full MemberYes to Android Auto, wired only though.
A note for anyone with wired Android Auto, the AAWireless dongle is effing awesome! It turns a wired AA head unit into wireless plus allows you to mess around with the settings for example to force it to display a higher DPI or workaround various head unit bugs. Really great bit of kit!
The latest beta even adds using Apple phones through Android Auto
I've just spotted that the EU ban is 2035, so aligning the UK to that date rather than being 5 years earlier actually makes a lot of sense.
Skeptically, I assume we originally set our date 5 years earlier to look as though were somehow ahead of the curve. Which as a small part of a large market is a ridiculous thing to do as the markets won't change their product development roadmaps just for us.
I wonder whether the plan was always to slide this back 5 years to match the EU - saving the timing for when it's politically helpful to get some people on board (such as now).
Which will be why it's being presented in the manner it is now (including the "accidental" leak a few days before so that the tabloids and social media can get max value out of it). A presentation of the change in sensible terms ("we made a mistake setting it early - we need to align with the larger market") both doesn't make the masses think the government is doing them a favour and also doesn't play well to the "sovereignty" audience.
I’ve just spotted that the EU ban is 2035, so aligning the UK to that date rather than being 5 years earlier actually makes a lot of sense.
Yeah I suspect that Johnson announced 2030 as a crowd pleaser without any thought.
I'm not convinced yesterdays announcement will make as much difference to getting people into EVs sooner than the continued high fuel prices, and prohibitive P11d values for fossil fuel company vehicles.
I've had an EV Company car since June. Its costing me 2.3p per mile to run (Octopus over-night cheap charging) whereas my previous BMW Diesel was around 15-16p per mile. I do approx 18-20k miles per year so this is significant.
The P11D value drop is also significant - i think i'm £300+ per month better off when combining the fuel and tax savings.
Ironically i'm looking to move jobs next year and will lose the car - i'm definitely going to buy a 2-3 year old EV as on fuel costs alone Fossil fuel cars make no sense if you can charge at home.
Yeah we do 7k miles a year and that paid for half of the car loan. At that mileage I could have had a better car essentially for free.
I’ve just spotted that the EU ban is 2035, so aligning the UK to that date rather than being 5 years earlier actually makes a lot of sense.
Not if you’re trying to get your car industry to have an advantage over competitors, and not if you think that acting sooner rather than later is a better way to be sure of reaching your target. The planet doesn’t care who’s first or last.
A practical question - if your 12v battery goes flat, can you jump start your car just like a fossil car? As there’s no starter motor to turn over (I think) I’d have imagined you could use something like an Anker power bank ?
Apologies if it’s been covered before in thread, I did a man look & could see anything related.
seeing a thread on pistonheads, a few people are claiming massive insurance hikes/ refusals for electric cars.
My diesel golf insurance has only gone up about 7% this year. I start a new job & was thinking of going electric for the commute but if this is a tend I may reconsider.
if your 12v battery goes flat, can you jump start your car just like a fossil car?
Yes, and you only need to provide enough power to boot up the car.
massive insurance hikes/ refusals for electric cars.
Such a huge bunch of misinformation and horsecrap talked about electric cars. It's become such an emotive topic and I've no idea why - is it Saudi bots attempting to slow the adoption down?
I changed from CMax to ENiro about 6 months ago. Insurance change cost me £70, but I took the opportunity to add my 22 year-old lad to the named drivers so I wouldn't be surprised if the base insurance hadn't gone down by quite a bit!
BlobOnAStick
is it Saudi bots attempting to slow the adoption down?
lol. I've read the same kind of threads over there and it's people talking about their own renewals going up massively/being refused. Nothing more than that, zero reason to believe there is any Saudi psyops involved!
Virtually all renewals are up this year but not to the extent of those on the relevant threads.
edit- Can't post a link as STW forum is not correctly processing hrefs with ampersands inside, if you search for Tesla Insurance on their Tesla subforum you will see an example
My diesel golf insurance has only gone up about 7% this year. I start a new job & was thinking of going electric for the commute but if this is a tend I may reconsider.
Not getting into the bun fight above, but it would be reasonable quick to do a quote from compare the market or whatever and see what you get.
A practical question – if your 12v battery goes flat, can you jump start your car just like a fossil car? As there’s no starter motor to turn over (I think) I’d have imagined you could use something like an Anker power bank ?
There's a known issue with early Renault Zoes hammering the 12v battery. I've had to replace ours twice, with both lasting 3 years. When the batteries were on their way out, I used to trickle charge them overnight using a smart charger.
https://forums.aeva.asn.au/viewtopic.php?t=7234
Yes, and you only need to provide enough power to boot up the car.
Have seen a completely unauthorised "boot kit" at work which is basically a 3s LiPo battery on a stick that you stick in the accessory/lighter socket. Works on cars where the socket stays live after key off (The one in the boot usually does).
And that insurance stuff seems perfectly reasonable for a car that will hit 60 in well under 5 seconds and can be somewhat tricky to repair.
Car insurance is up loads generally - not just EVs. It's been widely reported
https://www.theguardian.com/money/2023/jul/22/uk-drivers-car-insurance-costs-price-petrol-diesel
Yes, most are going significantly up. Higher labour, materials, energy costs drive up repair costs. Compounding that is many parts take longer to get now, so people are in hire/courtesy cars for longer.
Tesla insurance is high anyway because of the performance but also Tesla aren't great at supplying parts for repair quickly.
Just check with Mrs OD the insurance on her Soul EV went from £340 to £390. Which seems to be, if anything, slightly lower than the average increase across all types of cars
I've just been presenting in a large motor insurer board meeting today (ooh get me. Important!)
Main topic of conversation with Execs, NEDs and the wider insurance market is the 40% increase in renewal premiums YOY, and what it's doing to complaints, customer satisfaction etc.
Most of increase is down to rampant claims cost inflation - claims handling, legal costs, parts scarcity and rising cost, scarcity and cost of hire care replacement, rocketing total loss valuation figures etc. Even with the FCA rules on fair pricing being properly embedded, we're finding that prices across the market are rising rapidly and few are making any margin.
EV repair costs are indeed high, and driving higher premiums. Parts are still scarce. Fewer garages are trained and tooled to work on high voltage cars (and therefore repair costs have risen). THere's also a nervousness about the frailty of batteries, which are over 50% of the price of a car, and which are being replaced rather than repaired in a lot of cases.
if your 12v battery goes flat, can you jump start your car just like a fossil car? As there’s no starter motor to turn over (I think) I’d have imagined you could use something like an Anker power bank ?
Yep, known problem on Teslas. I have a tiny 9v battery taped behind the tow hook flap which opens the froot if you connect it to the two exposed terminals, and in there a 12v lithium ion jump pack which I inherited from my Volvo. Not needed it yet though.
Yes, insurance is going up, but people are also reporting being refused insurance on EVs. However it's perhaps more telling to look at the Cat S that are on the relevant sites and how damaged they aren't. Of course, there could be unseen damage but it's quite clear in some cases that insurers are writing off cars very easily. This would of course make premiums go up.
This was on the Leaf owner's group today - it's a 2015 car and has been written off for £7k. That's the only damage.
mert
And that insurance stuff seems perfectly reasonable for a car that will hit 60 in well under 5 seconds and can be somewhat tricky to repair
It's not really how much it is, it's the increase year on year.
As I said almost all of us have seen some increase, but on the EV forum people were posting about their renewal doubling or more, or even being declined.
This was on the Leaf owner’s group today – it’s a 2015 car and has been written off for £7k. That’s the only damage.
Is that because of concerns over the battery?
Our just that's what bodywork repairs are now charged at?
thats a main body panel thats been damaged.
new bumper - £500
new light - £500
new side panel - £1000
cutting out side panel and replacing - £1000
paint (bumper and side panel) - £1000
total - £4000
scrap value - £5000
would take a value of £9k not to write it off
I’ve heard that the newer Tesla’s are more expensive to repair due to their continuing reduction of subassemblies to save cost in manufacturing. There are fewer parts but they’re individually MUCH more expensive and difficult to remove if they’re damaged.
Hmm I did not notice the damage to the panel. And the high scrap value because of the battery is an interesting one.
Let's hope the fears are unfounded.
Are mk1 Leaf rear bumpers impossible to get? Because there's one along the road from me (by which I mean a mk1 Leaf, not its bumper) doing its best mk1 Mondeo impression. It's been doing it for at least six months now.
quick to do a quote from compare the market
I did- all were more expensive than my current quote. Given reports of massive hikes both ICE & EV I thought the 7% was reasonable.
There is a post on the pistonheads thread where someone has had an electric bmw’s cover not renewed by their insurer. Not sure if this widespread or not.
Isn't the tesla y battery a structural component? So if it gets damaged the car basically gets written off
someone has had an electric bmw’s cover not renewed by their insurer. Not sure if this widespread or not.
I think a huge amount of BMW EV’s will be on salary sacrifice lease plans which include insurance and maintenance, mine certainly is.
Isn’t the tesla y battery a structural component?
Not exactly, it is large but removeabale for service. It's exposed to being bent, and if it were it would probably need replacing so there's that. That said, an impact big enough to bend the battery might well write an ICE car off as well.
Direct line wouldn't quote me for a BMW iX or the model Y. Quote that I did get for the iX was just shy of a grand. For reference, currently paying £250ish for a Mondeo. Value of the car obvioulsy a factor but still extreme. Cheapest that I could get for the Y was £1300 with a large (£750) excess. Full NCD; mid 50s; no points on licence
Insurance expensive now. Check money saving expert.
Model Y insurance earlier this year was £800. But that was with about £500 excess of compulsory + voluntary in south manchester.
🤷🏻♂️ insurance is what it is.
Isn’t the tesla y battery a structural component?
Not sure it is yet. as far as I know the ‘skateboard’ design of Model S,3, and X is common across the S3XY platform now. The plan is to make the battery a structural component soon.
Irrespective, expensive cars are expensive to repair. That is the case whether they are ICE or EV.
Edit. I understood that some cosmetic repairs to my Model S from another named driver’s mishap amounted to £20,000 of repairs. I can imagine that a chunk of that was paint work. Getting parts was a long haul (several weeks) but a next day delivery comparison to getting a Renault X-brace back in the late 90s which took about 16 weeks!
A practical question – if your 12v battery goes flat, can you jump start your car just like a fossil car? As there’s no starter motor to turn over (I think) I’d have imagined you could use something like an Anker power bank ?
🤷🏻♂️
I have no idea where the 12V battery is in my Model Y.
The last time I suffered a flat 12V battery was with a MB. That was under the driver’s floor mat. The Audi I jump started from had its battery under the passenger foot well. It was tricky. Glad I had monster jump cables.
These days I’d just bring up the service/callout option on the Tesla app and pay whatever. In the scheme of things a call out or recovery fee is not much compared to TCO.
Direct line wouldn’t quote me for a BMW iX or the model Y. Quote that I did get for the iX was just shy of a grand. For reference, currently paying £250ish for a Mondeo. Value of the car obvioulsy a factor but still extreme. Cheapest that I could get for the Y was £1300 with a large (£750) excess. Full NCD; mid 50s; no points on licence
It's not really just about the value of the car - not sure exactly what models you're looking at but aren't a lot of the iXs and Ys sort of sub 5s 0-60s big heavy cars? The damage you can cause to the car is limited to the value of the car but if you injure 4 occupants in another car that's potentially millions and millions.
For a more like for like comparison with an ICE car compare insurance with Audi S5s and BMW M5s rather than a mondeo.
^ That. Big fast expensive cars have always been pricey.
Hmm but surely an M5 is more likely to be driven aggressively than a Model Y? These EVs might be fast but they aren't sports cars and aren't bought as such.
My Zoé 50 insurance is 420e and my Dacia Lodgy TCE 404e. Both fully comp any driver with assistance/recovery. The list price of the Zoé is about double the Dacia. Both owned from new. The power:weights are Dacia 115bhp/1200kg and Zoé 108bhp/1500kg.
The insurance on the iX and the model Y were bottom end iX i.e. the 40, and mid range Y i.e. dual motor but not the Performnace model. I can't imagine (never having owned a properly rapid car) what the M60 and sub 4s Y would cost!
molgrips
Full MemberHmm but surely an M5 is more likely to be driven aggressively than a Model Y? These EVs might be fast but they aren’t sports cars and aren’t bought as such.
It's also around twice the price of a Model Y.
molgrips
Full Member
Hmm but surely an M5 is more likely to be driven aggressively than a Model Y? These EVs might be fast but they aren’t sports cars and aren’t bought as such.
Dunno about that. The squirt & go nature of a lot of electric cars seems to lead to some pretty dick-ish driving around here.
Insurance is always based on risk and exposure, so we'd need an industry insider to explain which it is.... surely someone will be along soon:)
Deposit paid on a used E-208 GT Premium, picking it up next Saturday 🙂
Next job is getting a charger fitted. I had placed an order with Octopus, but after taking nearly a grand from me I heard nothing for 3 days and when I rang them it turned out lead time is 5-6 weeks. Have found a couple of other options for Ohme Pro fitting who look like they'll be much quicker - seemed to spend most of yesterday sending photographs and drawings of my house and elec supply gubbins to them.
When has insuring a big £50k car that will do 0-60 in 5.5 seconds been cheap?
Exactly. My Jaguar XFS was 800 quid fully comp in 2020, a current quote for it is 1000. I don’t know exactly what my Model 3 is, as it’s a company salary sacrifice, but running a quote for it comes in at 900.
While I don’t doubt prices have risen, I think there’s a lot of people (particularly on Tesla forums) who are now insuring cars a lot more expensive and powerful than they used to and that’s causing some price shock.
£900 insurance isn't the issue, being refused or charged £3k is more of a problem.
As usual I find myself in a dealer looking at the new cars whilst collecting a part for my old one. This time it's a combined Nissan/Hyundai/Kia place so I had a look at the Ioniq 6 and the Ariya since they both can tow. The Ariya is absolutely lovely inside, possibly my favourite car yet. Really impressed with the dash design and interior quality and material choice - for which I am a sucker. But the Ioniq 6 was also lovely, better than the 5, and it has the advantage of being car shaped which I think would make it a lot better to drive and also more efficient, particularly on motorway trips.
WTLP for the Nissan is 329 from 87kWh usable which is about 3.8m/kWh, whereas the Ioniq 6 is 338 from 74 which makes about 4.5m/kWh. And the charging speed is a lot higher too which would make long trips easier. It's also big, low and rear wheel drive which I suspect would make it a great drive.
Really impressed with the dash design and interior quality and material choice – for which I am a sucker.
You should try and get a look at a Genesis GV60. The interior quality is a step up from the Ioniq 5/6 and the EV6.
Same brilliant car underneath.
It’s not really how much it is, it’s the increase year on year.
EVs are now mainstream, they have a *lot* more data, and a lot more people driving them. Second hand market is there too. Hundreds of people driving cars they don't care about quite as much, loads more being privately insured instead of as part of a corporate/salary sacrifice deal. It's been coming for a while.
The squirt & go nature of a lot of electric cars seems to lead to some pretty dick-ish driving around here.
A fairly basic EV can probably develop more torque and out accelerate an M5 in city driving, 0-50kph (where you get lots of minor bumps and lots of claims.)
I know i've cracked my head off the B pillar in a proto BEV by nailing the throttle at part lock. 400Nm from 0kph isn't really practical. (it was changed for production)
The only limitations on torque in an EV at low speed is generally how much torque the motor will develop and how much the tyres can resist. In an M5 you've got the entire powertrain limiting the torque, half shafts, props, differentials, transmission, air intake and so on. (It's also easier for the tyres in an EV to resist torque, due to the way it's delivered).
You should try and get a look at a Genesis GV60. The interior quality is a step up from the Ioniq 5/6 and the EV6.
Should hope so for an extra ten Gs
can probably develop more torque and out accelerate an M5 in city driving
this, I have inadvertently pressed the pedal a bit to hard in my i4 a few times coming into roundabouts and the like, it’s rather scary..
this, I have inadvertently pressed the pedal a bit to hard in my i4 a few times coming into roundabouts and the like, it’s rather scary..
As a motorcyclist I'm used to out accelerating almost everything, EVs definitely change that. Waiting to see if the auto city brake feature will save us from a steep increase in accidents caused by drivers mistakenly hitting the go pedal instead of the brake.
They're not that violent unless you want to be. The torque application is pretty sensible.