Forum menu
Tesla have superchargers (CCS only) and destination chargers (type 2) at places like hotels and restaurants. They usually have one or more that are Tesla only with a red sign and one or more that are for anyone with a white sign.
https://teslaowners.org.uk/guides/tesla-destination-chargers-explained
but then you have to plan when caravanning anyway.
Errr, what?
Get in, drive.
I don't plan at all...
Get in, drive.
I don’t plan at all…
I do. I look at where I can go; where I can stop for lunch; wether or not I can get to the caravan site easily or if I'll be faced with miles of narrow lanes; how much windy country road there will be so I can avoid holding people up too much... then there's all the normal holiday planning on top.
Tesla have superchargers (CCS only) and destination chargers (type 2) at places like hotels and restaurants. They usually have one or more that are Tesla only with a red sign and one or more that are for anyone with a white sign.
For further clarity, the big white chargers units you see in banks of 8 or so are ‘Superchargers’, DC rapid chargers operating at between 120kw and 250kw. These are CCS only for non-Teslas. Some of these unit have two cables, on one cable appears to be a Type 2 cable. It’s not. It’s a bastardised version of Type that will only DC charge a Tesla Model S or X. It won’t charge anything else.
A Leaf cannot be charged by a Tesla Supercharger as it doesn’t have CCS. It could be charged by Tesla AC Destination charger using Type 2. These are small silver units that look like home chargers.
Here's my non Tesla charging at Tesla open for all charging station.
The welcome lights on the Corsa e are pretty decent.
A Zoe pulled in to charge whilst I was there. Charge port on the Corsa e is in the same place as Tesla cars which is handy.
Car's being collected tomorrow.
The lease company wanted £13,500 for it, which is pretty good for a 2 year old 14k mile car. And from what I can tell that seems to be LESS than the petrol hybrids, which is interesting. It's about £1k less than the going rate for that mileage.
If I had known about this option before and I was prepared I would probably have taken it up, but as it is now we have 6 weeks where no second car is needed, then I think we will wait and see if we can manage with one. The big question is wether or not my wife can park the diesel on the street where she works. The longer we can get by with one the more money we will save, but also prices seem to be plummeting so waiting 6 months could save us even more. I swear the Ioniq EVs were more last time I looked.
I do. I look at where I can go; where I can stop for lunch; wether or not I can get to the caravan site easily or if I’ll be faced with miles of narrow lanes; how much windy country road there will be so I can avoid holding people up too much… then there’s all the normal holiday planning on top.
I suspect you're overthinking things...
You don't worry that you'll rock up somewhere with a caravan and not be able to park, or drive in and not be able to get out?
Pretty difficult in the UK to park anywhere with a caravan that's not a country layby or motorway services.
You don’t worry that you’ll rock up somewhere with a caravan and not be able to park, or drive in and not be able to get out?
10 years of caravaning and 20+ years of heavy trailer towing, it's not happened yet.
Pretty difficult in the UK to park anywhere with a caravan that’s not a country layby or motorway services.
Admittedly, i've never been in the UK with a caravan, just big ballast trailers. But not had an issue.
I've had plenty of difficulties. Once I forgot my bike lock, needed to stop on the way to get one. Parking at a Halfords in a retail park needed a bit of care, and we still got bollocked.
Probably thought you were advance party of travellers scoping out a site!
I'd more or less put our EV purchase on hold, but I've resurrected it havjng seen the MG4. The thing that attracts me of course is the price, but beyond that it seems from reviews that it is actually a decent car, and - better and better - they are available to buy, rather than just put your name at the end of a long waiting list, and also there is a dealer within Brompton-riding distance of us (Alnwick) in case things go wrong.
Usually about now I realise I'm missing something. Please help me by pointing it out before money changes hands!
Yeah that's certainly how we got treated despite very obviously being middle class holiday makers.
@DrJ not much to add here other than prices may be falling rapidly in the next year or so. Or not.. who knows? 😉
Autotrader value of mine dropped about £6k this year, recon it's worth being patient and considering used?
It's what I'm going to do. My car today got taken to auction, I reckon with the prices falling fast it won't get much at auction at all because dealers won't want to buy a liability.
It's being sold at Mannheim in Witton in Cambridgeshire apparently... Quite tempted to take a look. I bet it'll go for less than Arval wanted.
Incidentally the list price was £27k; we paid them £7.5k and they offered it to us for £13.5k. That's a £6k loss if the price on the contract was what they paid for it.
Wow. Like Molgrips I have an Ioniq EV. The autotrader values have plummeted just in the last couple of months. Had to buy at the peak of the market in summer 2021 due to job changes but was holding steady and suddenly dropped off. Some good deals out there on low mileage EVs - wish they were at those prices when we were looking!
In contrast, the Corolla Touring Hybrids that i also looked at (for about 4K less than the ionic in 2021) have held or look to have actually increased in price (even taking into account 2+yrs of mileage).
Will be a difficult dilemma when we get to the final payment, as at the current rate the car could be worth less than the final value. (not helped by our mileage)
We've got a '57 Golf that is on its way out & we're looking at a replacement for it. One car family, 95% of our journeys are within 40 miles (in the last year we've been done approx 4 trips over 250 miles) and we go to the beach a fair bit so need a boot that's no smaller than the Golf (2 under 10s with SUPS, body boards, wetsuits, buckets & spades etc). We've also got a Saris Bones 3 for bike carrier duties.
Given our mileage & use profile above we reckon an EV fits the bill and with a budget of £14k its looking like a newer Leaf ticks most of the boxes. We'd like a plus but budgets not going to stretch to that so likely 2018 onwards N Connecta or Tekna (for the few long journeys we do a year we'll borrow/hire an ICE).
Anything to look out for on second hand 2018 onwards leafs/leaves (?) & advice would be much appreciated. Likewise if there's anything else with a suitable boot & within budget we should be looking at. After looking at a few online & in person it looks like the leaf has one of the bigger EV boots.
Cheers
There's not a lot that goes wrong with them. It's rare for 2018 on to lose a "bar" of capacity (you can find it by scrolling through the dash menus, left-most icon) but you can get much more detailed info with a cheap OBD dongle and an app called Leafspy. Probably most common mechanical thing - if it makes a noticeable "click" when you come on/off the throttle then it's driveshafts - either a warranty job or a straightforward strip/grease/retorque if not in warranty. If it's for sale at a dealer just get them to resolve.
Else it's just the usual car buying checks. Plenty used as taxis but that should come up on a check. They're good cars, boot is huge.
If you want a warranty then Nissan's "good to go" scheme is pretty good, extended warranty, servicing, MOT and breakdown cover wrapped up for £34 a month. https://www.nissan.co.uk/owners/nissan-services/good-to-go.html You can stay on it until 10 years or 100k miles.
https://www.standard.co.uk/tech/why-electric-car-prices-dropping-b1085646.html
In 6 months some EVs have dropped a third, whilst petrol cars have on average dropped 0.5%
Given our mileage & use profile above we reckon an EV fits the bill and with a budget of £14k its looking like a newer Leaf ticks most of the boxes.
In my view, the Leaf is a nicer car to drive than the Ioniq EV I looked at, but the range is lower to begin with and much more variable. Not all cars have heat pumps but it was an option. People are talking about Leafs and EVs generally losing a third of their range in winter, but our Ioniq EV would only drop about 10% at worst. Also, it actually gets the WTLP range, so it reported about 203 miles in summer, with mixed driving, and about 175 in winter. That's why I'll almost certainly get another, rather than a Leaf. In engineering terms it's brilliant.
On the 40kWh Leaf, only the Visia (very basic, and rare) and late 2021 onwards Acenta lack a heat pump. Everything else should have one.
I lived without one for 2 years in the egolf, it was definitely worse in winter but it didn't really bother me much day to day. Either you're tootling around well within the range, or you're doing a long trip and need to rapid charge regardless.
It's more the unpredictability. I knew I could always do a certain trip or make it to a certain charger regardless in the Ioniq because it was so consistent.
Thanks all
The OBD dongle - is that something I'd buy online & any seller would be happy for me to plug in when looking at their car?
We'd hoped the golf would last us longer (up till recently it's been faultless), ideally to the stage where battery tech & associated range is better for our budget but alas we need to buy nowish & buying an ICE just seems wrong.
We had a look at other EVs but budget & boot means the Leaf wins. Given our use we don't think the winter range will be a massive issue for us given the likely distances. Just means we'll charge it more often during the week .
Any recommendations on wall chargers? We don't have solar but smart charging, so it speaks to our energy supplier (octopus) for cheaper periods overnight, sounds great.
Autotrader value of mine dropped about £6k this year, recon it’s worth being patient and considering used?
Any recommendations on where to look for user EV? I bought our last fossil car from Cazoo and I was very pleased with the car though their after sales service has been abysmal. I know zero about cars (in case you hadn’t noticed) so some sort of reputable dealer would be valued.
Try your local car dealers. Or ones within a reasonable distance.
Take a photo of the vin number and log on to the app associated with the car as if you were the owner and check out as much as you can about the car.
Any recommendations on wall chargers?
Ohme, so you can get Intelligent Octopus and 7.5p/kWh with any car. They recommend to leave it plugged in all the time when it's at home.
Someone at work paid £40k for a Model S 18 months ago, it's now worth £20k... ouch.
Usually about now I realise I’m missing something. Please help me by pointing it out before money changes hands!
@DRJ - we've had ours for a couple of months/1500 miles. It's been fantastic. Fun to drive, efficient, decent size 'boot' (big dog), etc. We've not done any really long trips (max 140 miles in a day) and it's always charged at home (so far). Downside?
- lane assist is rubbish. Get in car, turn off
- Quite wide sills, defo open door fully, could see that dragging mud in in winter
- Software is okay rather than great, bit laggy but nothing major
- I can't quite get the seat tilted back enough for me, but fine for better half (it's her car)
- No rear speakers or lights in the back
That's really it. For what we paid for it, it's brilliant. I really enjoy driving it, it's defo powerful enough and even with the 'small' battery absolutely works for us.
An EV is believed to have a caused a fire on a car transport ship in the North Sea. Unable to extinguish the blaze, one sailor has died, and 7 others jumped into the sea to escape. The remaining crew were rescued by helicopter.
The ship is still on fire and is listing according to the coastguard.
I wonder if this will have any knock-ons for tourist ferries/chunnel etc (the latter already has restrictions on LPG converted cars for example).
We've just done our first long trip/holiday in our Kia Soul, 3 adults with tandem on roof we were just under 4mi/kWh for the long drive up and down (mostly motorway) and the 260 miles (one way) trip needed just a little top-up easily managed during one of our stops. Could easily have driven further in a day if necessary but living slap bang in the middle of the country, 260 miles reaches most parts!
Smart cruise control including lane assist/keep was lovely on the motorway and it was very comfortable and relaxing to drive, but I always switch off the lane assist for local roads cos it's just a pain in the arse with the random beeps and tugs on steering wheel.
I wonder if this will have any knock-ons for tourist ferries/chunnel etc (the latter already has restrictions on LPG converted cars for example).
Doubt it, EVs are less likely than ICE vehicles to catch fire in the first place.
You'd hope, but transport operators have been known to do spectacularly stupid things, like requiring bicycle tyres to be deflated for flying.
Must say, having looked at used EV's a year ago, then just recently, the residual values have absolutely bottomed - losing 50% for a low mileage two year old car. ICE seem to be retaining value.
Must say, having looked at used EV’s a year ago, then just recently, the residual values have absolutely bottomed – losing 50% for a low mileage two year old car. ICE seem to be retaining value.
Yep, we've just bought a spotless, nearly 3 year old eNiro-4 25K miles from a dealer for £20.5K. When looking on auto-trader similar age/spec petrol Niros were the same price.
Doubt it, EVs are less likely than ICE vehicles to catch fire in the first place
Do you have any evidence for that?
I'm asking because I'm genuinely interested not looking to disprove anyone :o)
The WBAC values seem to be going up so buy your cheap secondhand EVs now if you can.
Unfortunately car transporter ship fires are not that rare. Felicity Ace last year was initially blamed on an EV fire but no evidence of that - they do keep on going once they're on fire though.
If you google it, you will get figures saying that EV fires are between 17 and 100 times less likely the ICE fires.
I think there are a lot of caveats and conditions to that. It looks like hybrids are the worst culprits. I don't know if that's because they have the weaknesses of both technologies or something specific to do with hybrid drive.
EV fires are probably more likely during charging, so not relevant to car carriers like this one. Some ferries do allow charging though (or did until recently).
Fires on car carriers are very hard to put out, regardless of the type of car, but EV fires do have particular problems - they get very hot and even after appearing to be extinguished and can reignite. You need a lot of water to cool them down and this isn't an option on car carriers - not least because they get unstable fast.
If cars could use drop-out battery packs and be shipped as a "bare unit" it would make it a lot safer.
Could potentially save money if cars all used a common design too. You could rent the battery and choose the capacity to suit you at the time: city runabouts get a small, light powerpack. Much more efficient being lightweight.
Long journey coming up? Pop into the garage and swap for an XL pack that will give you 500 miles (could also stop at a garage en-route and swap out your empty battery for a full one at the services while you get a coffee).
Eliminates concerns about battery lifetimes and stabilises car values (maybe a bad thing ?)
I appreciate there are a thousand problems with this idea at the moment, but I'm enjoying the daydreaming
If you google it, you will get figures saying that EV fires are between 17 and 100 times less likely the ICE fires.
And if you look at the actual numbers they don't actually say how many fires per electric population that translates to.
eg:
In the UK, Air Quality News made an in-depth study of the EV fire threat, and discovered that in 2019 the London Fire Brigade tackled 54 fires in EVs, compared to 1,898 in petrol and diesel cars. A more recent study by Health & Safety specialist CE Safety suggested there had been 735 call-outs to EV fires in the UK over the past five years – but this included all types of EV including scooters and bikes, with cars representing just 44% of the total – so around 323 when there are close to 33 million cars on the UK’s roads…
Okay, so 323 EV fires compared to 1898 IC. Even if they were equally likely that would mean EV's make up 14% of all road vehicles.
Doing a bit of digging I found this:
here:
Which says at end of Q4 2022 battery propelled vehicles (hybrid electric, plug-in hybrid and BEV) accounted for 6.1+ % of all road going vehicles (diesel plug-in and range extended electric are both marked as non-zero but not measurable figures).
So assuming 0.1 for each (that's actually a measurable figure so I'm being generous), that's 6.3% of all vehicles having battery propulsion of some flavour, far short of the 14% the London figures show. Now I realise London isn't representative and will ikely have a higher %age of EV's, I can't find a table that shows this properly (VEH0105 doesn't show all types of EV) but if someone else wants to do some spreadsheet ****ery fill your boots, there might be some overlapping info that would inform better.
Long journey coming up? Pop into the garage and swap for an XL pack that will give you 500 miles (could also stop at a garage en-route and swap out your empty battery for a full one at the services while you get a coffee).
Or, even easier, just have it as a plug in option for a trailer pack.
@lodger years ago, well before EV were even really early adopters, the chap who founded SAP bought out a paper from his think tank on exactly this. Common design and chemistry, swappable at garages etc. we can see how well it took.
One of the issues the grossly incompetent management of British Volt ran in to, and failed to solve (unlike NorthVolt and several others) was how to produce batteries in different packaging for different customers.
From an OEM car manufacturers perspective, it’s tricky, as the packs are very large and the way you design and incorporate them becomes your USP and IP.
Yep, we’ve just bought a spotless, nearly 3 year old eNiro-4 25K miles from a dealer for £20.5K. When looking on auto-trader similar age/spec petrol Niros were the same price.
I'd say that's more because second hand ICE car prices are insane rather than electric is cheap. Over 20k for a three year old, mid size Kia?
@lodger, I think it is Sweden that has an EV car company that does just that...they have a range of cars and there are 4 or 5 locations that you can drive into and they can do an almost hot swap of the battery pack - you don't ever do any recharging of the battery as the location does that, but you pay for the battery usage - which seemed to be about the same price as it would be to charge it.
I read about it last yeat on the BBC News website, so the country is a bit hazy, but the concept of getting the battery swapped is already being looked at and used in some country. Makes a lot of sense as the location would like have a more consistent and suitable charging solution, so hopefully the batteries have a longer life due to a discharge/recharge cycle that is more efficient for it.
Edit - found the article - it was Norway, not Sweden! https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-61310513
Also, it looks like Toyota might be looking at a cartridge battery system as well - https://mag.toyota.co.uk/ev-battery-swap-toyota-joins-cartridge-batteries-research/
Do you have any evidence for that?
I’m asking because I’m genuinely interested not looking to disprove anyone :o)
It will all depend on what evidence you look at tbh. I'm a Fire Fighter and we have been looking at electric cars in more detail recently. Ultimately there will be less fires in electric cars atm as they are newer and less prone to fault. Most car fires we attend are electrical faults, often in older cars or are deliberate.
The problem with electric cars comes if the battery goes in to thermal runaway as by that point it is very difficult to put the fire out and the chances of re-ignition are very high. There is genuine talk of producing mobile tanks of water that an electric car can be picked up and put in! For this too happen though almost always means the battery has been in an accident or suffered significant shock. Even then the numbers across the world are in the hundreds so hardly a huge concern.
Basically you are more likely to have a fire in an ICE vehicle but the outcome may well be worse in an electric one.
Sounds easy enough, until you remember it's taken 25 years for tech companies to even start to agree on a mobile phone charging cable standard.
All you really need is a standard compartment and connector.... and voltage and management system and.....There'd still be different user interfaces and profiles so one brand might be fast, one more economical so still options to differentiate. If you can swap in, it doesn't need to be so big so avoiding the need to squash cells into cavities and pouches all around the chassis.
There are lots of ideas- some of them pretty good. Shipping lithium and lithium ion batteries has been a problem for a while now but I keep thinking a change in battery chemistry is on the horizon. Less flammable electrolytes for example could make a big difference.
Nah, they're all in on lithium now, it'll take another huge shift (hydrogen?) to shift course at this point.
As for changing batteries depending on your journey, no chance. The battery is now an integral part of the chassis, designed to withstand accidents. It's just not practical to have replaceable batteries.
Re swapping of batteries.
It would, in the vast majority of cases be massively less convenient than recharging.
For most use cases cars spend the vast majority of their time stanionary, either at home or work place etc. slow charging makes sense there. Also, fast charging is REALLY fast if done properly so not a real issue so long as the car has enough range to do some significant miles before needing a charge.
Both of the above cases assume sufficient charging locations, both slow and fast. We’re not quite there yet.
As an example, I did 375 miles in my i4 over the last few days, and needed only 10kW charge before getting home again - adding an extra 10 for a buffer is 20kW. There was a low charger outside my hotel so I used that and it charged while I had dinner, but a proper fast charger would have added that charge in about 10 minutes.
Battery swapping is happening in China, but I'm not seeing many others currently going down that route. There is ever increasing platform sharing, so maybe it could become a thing, but currently most seem to be designing around the benefits of ev packaging compared to ic, so that generally means pushing wheels out to the corners and a well integrated central skateboard chassis / battery module.
https://www.nio.com/blog/1200th-nio-power-swap-station-up-running
Toyota's recent solid state battery announcement sounds like it might be the start of the next wave (and Nio are also starting to release solid state batteries).
On a different note, there must have been a big shipment from China in the last couple of months as the MG dealer I pass on the way to work seems to have ever increasing numbers of (mostly electric) cars scattered everywhere (i.e. cutting / gravelling the scrubland behind the dealership to store them). They don't seem to be disappearing so can't all be advanced orders - so maybe prices are set to get a bit keener?
Nah, they’re all in on lithium now
It's not the lithium it's the electrolyte that's flammable. Solid state batteries should solve that, as well giving us twice the range or the same range for half the mass. And they will happen, quite soon. It's not a nuclear fusion style pipe dream.
My wife is changing jobs so her SalSac EV has to go back. My company scheme allows 2 EVs so i've just ordered an MG4 Trophy for her. £300/mo all inclusive.
Okay, so 323 EV fires compared to 1898 IC.
Why are you comparing EV fires over 5 years in the whole of the UK to ICE fires covered by the London fire brigade in one year?
@gribs I have no ****ing idea.
Seriously, good spot, re-reading it that makes more sense against the claims.
An EV is believed to have a caused a fire on a car transport ship in the North Sea
Odd as there is no confirmation of the cause.
Odd as there is no confirmation of the cause.
why is it odd? The statement used 'believed to have' not 'was confirmed to have'.
Because the coastguard retracted to say they didn;t know the cause.
^^^ there is a huge difference in quality control in car manufacturing than in unregulated cheap Chinese electrical goods though.
Remember a few years ago all the posts in here about cheap lights, and putting the charges in biscuit tins to prevent fire risk etc. it appears that the vast majority of these ebike and escooter fires are similar cheap unregulated bits of tech.
I wonder how many occurrences of fires with bikes from the reputable brands - Spesh, Trek, Giant etc…. I bet not many.
The Press is ignorantly labelling all epowered 2 wheelers the same though.
When was the last time there was any positive news about any of Musk's ventures?
https://twitter.com/Timodc/status/1684581485183991808
Not a Musk fan but that story sounds like sensationalist shite. Walkers have a complaints team to deal with people who have issues managing a bag of crisps, it's hardly amazing to assume a car company has a complaints team to deal with people grappling with car issues on what is a relatively new consumer product.
I get this issue even now with my EV - it gives a projected range based on your past driving which may or not be representative of the journey you're about to undertake. Claimed range is 283miles, but in practice it can be anything between 190 and 280 miles depending on the route and conditions. However, you can avoid this by using any EV route planner which can generally tell you very accurately your range for a given journey. Most normally people can understand this but I am sure the manufacturer gets grief from a small subset of customers who can't wrap their head around it.
I get this issue even now with my EV – it gives a projected range based on your past driving which may or not be representative of the journey you’re about to undertake. Claimed range is 283miles, but in practice it can be anything between 190 and 280 miles depending on the route and conditions. However, you can avoid this by using any EV route planner which can generally tell you very accurately your range for a given journey. Most normally people can understand this but I am sure the manufacturer gets grief from a small subset of customers who can’t wrap their head around it.
Most folk with diesel/petrol cars have no idea of either their range nor what they do to the gallon/litre and just fill up at half/quarter/reserve etc.
I don't have an EV, currently diesel, but my next car will be an EV and at that point I'll get a charger installed at home and pay a bit more attention on longer trips as to the range vs stops.
Yeah, as has been shown by the substantial numbers of motoring journalists trying to make a quick buck, publishing stories about how stupid people fail to take into account that their new car is not like their old car - this is just rubbish.
it’s akin to when Microsoft changed the look of Windows and Office and people couldn’t work it because they flat refused to try and use it like it was intended, not like how they’d used it before. Kubler-Ross in action - it’s often better to just ignore and wait.
I keep thinking a change in battery chemistry is on the horizon. Less flammable electrolytes for example could make a big difference.
It's already happened, LFP batteries are becoming more the norm. Telsa have been putting them in their rwd model 3 and Y for a few years now and many Chinese cars have this battery, also Ford are using them I believe. The advantage of LFP is it likes to be abused, it doesn't over heat, doesn't suffer thermal runaway and if you do manage to set fire to it, it doesn't release oxygen, so easy to extinguish.
"Most folk with diesel/petrol cars have no idea of either their range nor what they do to the gallon/litre and just fill up at half/quarter/reserve etc."
Yeah but... they do have an idea of how close petrol stations are likely to be and also have a high degree of certainty that there will be fuel there. You can pop a quarter tank in or a tenner as you are never that far from a pump. Even in the far north west where i'm headed tomorrow, i know where i need to fill and where i can fill again if required.
they do have an idea of how close petrol stations are likely to be and also have a high degree of certainty that there will be fuel there
Don’t most modern cars have some sort of GPS mapping device that tells them where lots of things are? Things like stores, filling stations, charging stations etc?
I’ve not considered running out of fuel a thing since I started driving back in the 20th century. I think it became more unlikely when we changed to electric cars.
Don’t most modern cars have some sort of GPS mapping device that tells them where lots of things are? Things like stores, filling stations, charging stations etc?
Lots do. Only a select few actually interrogate the charger live time to tell you if it's working at all - if it's already charging a vehicle(higher impact than queuing for petrol)
I've been using the chargefinder app for my long distance mid journey charging options.
The car navigation system isn't as up to date as an app and I'm only interested in using 50kw+ chargers when on big days out so the filters in the app remove the low powered chargers.
That requirement may determine where I head to or go via to get to the destination.
Cost of charging also is a factor, the Tesla open for all chargers can be much cheaper than other chargers.
Another fast charger has recently opened locally, 10p cheaper than the next nearest. Would save £2.50 per charge as I typically stop charging when the charge rate drops below 30kwh.
My parents used zap map on their trip north from Edinburgh.... And managed to hit two in a row showing on zap map as working ...... That weren't even hooked up.
As I've said before poor infrastructure is a bigger issue north of Perth than below it so if your south of the border it's probably not something that will concern you.
The vast majority of car carriers fires are caused by shipping used vehicles which develop shorts due to the motion and worn wiring.
The fires spread exponentially, 1st car takes about 10 minutes to get going, this ignites the 8 cars surrounding it, they ignite the 16 surrounding them and so on. Carriers will frequently have mixed loads of old and new vehicles.
The problem with the EV fires is the heat and intensity is much greater, which is more likely to damage structure and fire divisions. If the integrity is damaged, then the CO2 flooding systems are as effective.
You can't just pump thousands of gallons of water on the fire either, you might put the fire out but you may also capsize the ship.
tomd
Full MemberNot a Musk fan but that story sounds like sensationalist shite. Walkers have a complaints team to deal with people who have issues managing a bag of crisps, it’s hardly amazing to assume a car company has a complaints team to deal with people grappling with car issues on what is a relatively new consumer product.
I get this issue even now with my EV – it gives a projected range based on your past driving which may or not be representative of the journey you’re about to undertake. Claimed range is 283miles, but in practice it can be anything between 190 and 280 miles depending on the route and conditions. However, you can avoid this by using any EV route planner which can generally tell you very accurately your range for a given journey. Most normally people can understand this but I am sure the manufacturer gets grief from a small subset of customers who can’t wrap their head around it.
I'm really not sure how you got to your walkers crisps analogy here. Did you actually read the whole article? You seem to have missed the point of the story.
It's nothing to do with simply having a complaints team. It's also nothing to do with your second paragraph.
According to the source in the article, Tesla, at Musk's personal request, intentionally made their software give wildly optimistic and unachievable range readouts between 100% and 50% SOC. It would only give a realistic readout after this point.
This affected customers to the extent that in some cases drivers got only around half of the predicated range stated when the battery was full. They quite reasonably therefore believed their batteries were faulty.
This complaint was raised so often that Tesla's service centres were completely swamped. Tesla therefore formed a specialist complaint handling team specifically tasked with fobbing off the customers with this particular complaint as early as possible. And in actual fact, nothing was wrong with their cars, other than the software added at Musks request (again, allegedly, according to the source in the article).
Seconded, the article goes into some detail regarding Tesla and their wildly optimistic ("aggressive") range predictions that don't take weather, terrain, accessory use (HVAC/ICE) or driver habits into consideration (dashboard) and when they do (sat-nav) still come up short. DoT testing found Tesla were consistently over predicting by up to 26% across all models.
That's the sort of thing that results in class action lawsuits, never mind killing more baby robins than you thought, this is directly costing people money as they were sold a car that claimed an efficiency it was never going to achieve. Put it this way, if Volkswagen were selling cars that claimed 50mpg but even in testing could only hit 40mpg people would rightly be pissed, why is this any different?
This isn't a boot into EV makers, this is a boot into Tesla and in particular Musk who has once again applied his Shiteas Touch and brought another brand into disrepute.
As I’ve said before poor infrastructure is a bigger issue north of Perth than below it so if your south of the border it’s probably not something that will concern you
It's not just north of the border. It's anywhere it's not profitable. That's the problem of the network developing commercially rather than through nationalised infrastructure.
I have family in East Anglia. Charger (and particularly fast charger) availability in their town and surrounding arterial routes is pretty poor. In the 60 miles I travel up the A12 zap map is only showing two petrol stations with a fast charger directly on the road. Directly on the route the next nearest fast chargers are I think Thurrock and South Mims depending on which way round the M25 and possibly one at j28.
When I'm only there for a weekend I really don't want to spend a morning of my visit hunting electricity or taking another 30 minutes trying to get to a charger 5 miles off route that is somewhere I have no interest in being.
I love teslas ecosystem . I think it makes perfect sense and eclipses any other I've used.
But vanmoof rings hard and getting invested into a Tesla especially with the random angle generator at the helm seems like a good way to end up with a paperweight.
My current ICE car lease is up at the end of September, and whilst I have the option to extend for a final year (which is probably the most sensible financial choice) I'm also looking at the Tesla Model Y as an alternative. For me it fits the bill size wise and the charger network is a big plus, additionally the way that the retail model is set up I can obtain one at short notice (I'd be looking at Inventory stock to give the best price).
My conundrum is which version should I be looking at. Having never owned an EV range anxiety is strong, I don't commute via car (unless travelling for a customer meeting), but do take journeys of a decent distance for meetings, riding, UK holidays, family visits etc). The Long Range would be preferable (and AWD and better performance is nice) but the RWD version is significantly cheaper, however I can't get the lower range out of my head (and I know the real word figure is going to be lower than the given range). Anyone been through the same through process and can provide a view?
When was the last time there was any positive news about any of Musk’s ventures?
Here you go
https://electrek.co/2023/05/25/tesla-model-y-is-now-the-worlds-best-selling-car-first-ev-to-do-so/
When was the last time there was any positive news about any of Musk’s ventures?
Here you go
Thanks. Three months ago then.
Don’t most modern cars have some sort of GPS mapping device that tells them where lots of things are? Things like stores, filling stations, charging stations etc?
They do, but the problem is areas of charger 'desert'. Went to Filey recently and in the wider area the only fast charger seemed to be at McDonalds in Scarborough.
My conundrum is which version should I be looking at.
I have a Model Y RWD. Real world range 220-250 miles. Range is not a concern because the Supercharger network is just so damn good and the integration with the nav system is excellent. Coming from a non-Tesla EV I feel like what I imagine the Nomenclatura felt like the the Soviet Union with their own lanes on the motorway. Everywhere I go there's a Supercharger just for me and there's always a free charger. Also Supercharger prices per kWh are getting on for half what other networks charge.
OK the MY RWD its the slowest Tesla but at 6.5 s 0-60 and 137 max its still the fastest car I've ever owned. Also the RWD has the LFP battery which likes to be charged to 100% so you can have max range every day before you set out. Also LFP battery has no cobalt so you can be smug and tell ICE drivers their cars use more Co than yours because Co is used to desulphurise petrol and diesel.
The range issue is because manufacturers quote WLTP which is the imposed testing standard. Drive like the test and you'll get the quoted figures whether ICE or electric. Renault quote two figures; WLTP and their own estimation for normal use 395km and 320km respectively for the Zoé, they also have a very pessimistic calculator on their web site in which you enter speed, temperature, A/C, heater. I can and do equal or better the test figures with both my ICE and EV vehicles. The information is there for all to use, far more than any ICE.
There are conditions in which both do much worse. The worst I do in the ICE is short journeys from cold in town with traffic jams and lots of stop start . Volkswagen is selling cars that are advertised to do 50mpg and only 40mpg in some circumstances - see the threads about car fuel economy - there are as many figures as drivers/uses. Lead foot vroom vroom petrolhead versus smooth driving economical citizen.
Thanks. Three months ago then.
July good enough?
https://electrek.co/2023/07/25/tesla-now-outsells-toyota-in-california/
As for fires, if 25% of CO2 emisions over the last century or so have been from transport then you can blame ICE vehicles for their role in the climate change wild fires we are seeing around the world.
@edukator, the range figures tested were the ones given by Tesla that, when tested (using the same criteria for all makes) fell short of their predicted range by up to 26%. I'm not sure where WLTP fits into that as I don't recall it being mentioned (it's the US energy efficiency tags like we have on white goods). From what they say Tesla haven't done anything wrong as far as they are concerned but are gaming the calculations much harder than their competitors, some of whom are still falling short (but not by as much and as consistently) whilst others are actually under predicting by a fair margin.
So yeah, Tesla are clearly taking the piss albeit within the framework that's set up. Charger network aside I wouldn't be comfortable owning something I'm not in full control of. Sony got a slap, what, 10 years ago? for trying to claim they had free reign to brick Playstations for whatever reason until a court decided that no, you can't claim the hardware on it's own is what was bought and you can withdraw the software that runs it as and when you please. Tesla are known for pulling features and "bricking" cars for anti-consumer reasons ("unauthorised" repairs being one) so between that and the general beta test-vibe it's not something I'd be interested in (for the same reason I don't pay for "early access" games).
Which is a shame because that aside they are good looking (on the outside at least) and come in a sensible form factor.
Re WLTP range.
On my recent 390 mile trip over a couple of days, mostly cruise control set to 65mph I got within 5 miles of the WLPT range (my range was 355 miles*, WLPT is 360 miles). So it IS possible to get the range in the right conditions. It was admittedly fairly perfect temperature, but if I'd slowed down to 60mph or turned AC off etc it would have been slightly better so swings and roundabouts etc)
*3.4 m/hw.hr * 80.7kW = 355 miles
That's a BMW i4 e40 MSport with 18" wheel BTW.
Thanks upthedowns, useful to know.