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Are you talking the IONIQ, or the new out IONIQ 5?
the range turned out better than predicted.
Same with the Zoé, it seems to me their calculators are very pesimistic. If you set the calculator I linked at 50kmh it says 377km when the WLTP mixed figure is 395km and trundling around at up to 70kmh I get over 200km out of half the battery in Summer, extrapolating would give 430km.
Does anyone have a real world opinion of how much difference slowing from 70 to 60 on a motorway makes to range in an EV?
No but:
70 is 1.16667 times more than 60. or resistance is proportional to the square of speed so, pretending you're only doing work against air resistance you'd go from say 4.5m/kWh at 70 to 6.2 at 60. However there's a lot of other factors. But I'd imagine you'd be easily in the 5.5 range in my car. Driving at 60 on motorways is not a great idea though, cos it's only slightly faster than lorries and you end up overtaking them and clogging the middle lane. Better to drive at 58 or so. This is how fast I drive with the caravan and it's not that bad, but I wouldn't do it to save range unless I had to. I'd just stop and recharge.
However I once was faced with the prospect of having to recharge about 20 miles from home. So for the last 40 miles or so I slowed to 65 and it gained me enough range to get home so saved about 15 mins.
Dantsw13: Ioniq 5 sorry. It was so wallowy I actually felt a bit wary, nearing sea sick - and I never get sea sick! It was super wallowy in corners but even driving it on decent a-roads at speed made it wallow like mad. I really wanted to like it but that and lack of roof bars killed the dream. I'd be interested to hear if anyone else had the same sensation or if this was a dud car/under inflated tyres.
I’ll let you know after Friday. None of the YT reviews suggest it as an issue.
I’m not a “progress maker” so don’t see it as an issue for me anyhow.
Quite a few reviews have called out the Ioniq5 for wallowing, I'm another one who wanted to love it based on the looks and tech. As above though, that plus lack of roof rails or a factory tow bar made the Enyaq an easy decision for my next company car.
It was so wallowy I actually felt a bit wary, nearing sea sick – and I never get sea sick!
I was watching a review of the BMW i4 the other day ( Matt Watson - carwow) and both the guys in the car talked about feeling sick when they were the passenger , but it went away when they were driving. Mind you he did keep sticking his foot down a lot.
Just been reading about the Kia EV6. Same underlying car as the Ioniq 5 but it's a 'sportier' setup which might mean it's just more suitable for UK A roads. Worth a look. It's uglier though but not too bad.
Uglier? The EV6 looks better than the Ioniq5 IMO.
EV6 is considerably more expensive on my work scheme.
Enyaq is my reserve option if I don’t like the Ioniq 5
Hyundai really should consider putting some stiffer springs on the Ioniq 5 then if it's going to be a problem in the UK. There's a lot riding on all these cars for the manufacturers.
EV6 is considerably more expensive on my work scheme.
Yeah, Ioniq 5s are around for far less money than say, iD4s on lease deals.
Oh - and there is a factory towbar option on the ioniq 5. You had me worried there!!!
I’m quite torn between the Enyaq & Ioniq 5. I was hoping for a polestar, but both that & the Mach-E are very expensive through my work.
Apologies, thought I'd read there wasn't. Roof rails are a deal breaker for me though, plus I want the bigger boot. Also heard a few reports the seats in the Ioniq5 aren't the best, I've ordered the Sportline Enyaq as a company car, seats are supposed to be great
I do think many car manufacturers have forgotten what buyers really want.
Skoda do seem the masters of little practical details.
The Ioniq5 has a lot of “Oh, that’s cool….” stuff which I may well never use. For example my wife’s XC40 can park itself, but I never use it.
The only thing I wish the Skoda had was slightly faster charging. My commute (8 per month) is 130 mile round trip, and my longest regular drive is sailing - a 260 round trip but only every other month. For me a smaller battery Skoda/Hyundai with the option of a fast charge ionity blast will be fine. 100KWh charging is a bit slow…
100KWh charging is a bit slow…
Mmmm I think you need to either really consider how long you drive without stopping or get an EV and try it.
In my e-Tron, I get about 2.5 miles per kw and capacity is 100kw to an hour to brim it from flat for 200+ miles.
No one should be driving for more than a couple of hours without a break of some sort, so it's not really an issue. Yes, you can swap drivers, but how often would you not be willing to take a 40 min break somewhere?
Having said that Porsche's 300kw + charging speeds are impressive.
The ioniq5 is 350kw charging as standard , which an ionity will provide. On the Enyaq 60, standard is 50Kwh charging, with 100 a paid upgrade.
My 260 mile round trip his 2:20 each way and I stop for a coffee /leg stretch. I’d rather get enough charge whilst I wee & get a coffee, than have to wait longer.
The ioniq will give me enough in 10 mins to get home at 70mph, whereas with the skoda, after 20 mins I will have to come home at 60.
Not a deal breaker but a consideration.
I’m a big fan of the Enyaq.
Whatever money I save on the monthly lease payments will go straight into my mortgage overpayments, so I want to get it right. For that reason the Leafe+ is still in consideration too.
Most of my driving will be covered with home charging.
The topic of an EV came up last night now that winter is setting in and we are likely to be facing a commute into town (75km each way) in the middle part of next year. An EV is the obvious choice as the house has a place for a charge point and we now have some charging infrastructure in town to rely on.
The thing is, we use a trailer a fair bit for towing crap to the HWRC from the house and would really like a tow bar. ID4 has that option, but it arguably more car than we need (and really expensive over here)
Are there any other options for cars that have good range _and_ a tow bar? I keep coming back to the eNiro, but I don't think this is rated for towing.
Enyaq.
My 260 mile round trip his 2:20 each way and I stop for a coffee /leg stretch. I’d rather get enough charge whilst I wee & get a coffee, than have to wait longer.
Are there no charging options at the destination?
I'm a big petrolhead and I still have zero interest in EV's. A few people have told me I need to drive one.
Although a couple of recent rides through Aderley Edge suggests that the Taycan is selling well.
I'd say out of about 60/70 cars in the housing development where I live, there are 3 EV's and maybe 2/3 hybrids.
I'm also a petrolhead and really like the new technology; it's now a huge step change away from the milkfloat Nissan Leafs of 10 years ago.
EVs can be seen as additional driving options rather than ICE replacements; it means there's now a wider range of driving dynamics available which can be chosen to enjoy, or not.
The Polestar 2 has taken us to the Highlands and back in great comfort (3 x 30 minute stops over 600 miles each way), then afterwards I adjusted the Ohlins dampers to suit having fun on local roads. It's no Lotus Elise or Integrale for tactility but it's certainly more engaging than my RS6 was, and that was also a great car in its own way.
Give one a go!
There is a single Tesla destination charger in the Marina Carpark, which always seems in use.
Why did being a petrolhead become a thing? Because cars go fast, which is fun. All the other stuff about oily smells, gear changing and noise is just by association with speed and thrills. EVs still deliver thrills and speed. I'm looking at family cars that can tow a caravan and they are faster than the supercars of my youth. Difficult to complain about that.
I’m a big petrolhead and I still have zero interest in EV’s. A few people have told me I need to drive one.
I used to be a petrolhead but since changing to an EV I've completely lost interest in the internal combustion engine. Just appears noisy, inefficient, overly complicated and obsolete to me now.
I reckon if you got inside a Taycan or even the Polestar you'd change your mind.
The thing is, we use a trailer a fair bit for towing crap to the HWRC from the house and would really like a tow bar.
Quite a few that can tow smaller trailers.
https://electrictowcars.co.uk/electric-tow-cars/
Why did being a petrolhead become a thing? Because cars go fast, which is fun. All the other stuff about oily smells, gear changing and noise is just by association with speed and thrills
You really do come out with some crackers.
You really do come out with some crackers.
Go on..?
There is a single Tesla destination charger in the Marina Carpark, which always seems in use.
🙁 That's rubbish
Speaking of performance (if that is your thing) I'll try and find you the vide of the Tesla Model X beating an Alfa 4c in a drag race whilst towing an Alfa 4c on a trailer.
Edit: here it is:
Sorry about the quality.
I am not an EV owner. I am not a petrolhead, but I have owned enough cars that have a bit of performance to know that this is next level performance.
I mean, daaaaaamn:
I’m a big petrolhead and I still have zero interest in EV’s. A few people have told me I need to drive one.
A friend of mine is something of a petrolhead. Time came to replace his BMW and made a bit of an impulse purchase of a Tesla Model 3 as they had one ready to go. He liked it for a couple of months - he's now bought a 911 and hates the Tesla (but still uses it as a runaround - and yes his business is doing very well!).
I like the idea of an electric car and will undoubtedly have one at some time, but it's hard to get past the experience of driving this the other day!
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No bike rack, and would be crap on local potholed roads.
No bike rack, and would be dreadful on local potholed roads.
Why did being a petrolhead become a thing? Because cars go fast, which is fun. All the other stuff about oily smells, gear changing and noise is just by association with speed and thrills. EVs still deliver thrills and speed. I’m looking at family cars that can tow a caravan and they are faster than the supercars of my youth. Difficult to complain about that.
Just being fast isn't enough. It's about the interaction of speed, traction, feedback and actually being able to use it relatively safely on a road. A mate has an electric xc40 which is objectively fast (4.9s to 60) but it's still dull to drive outside of the acceleration.
Hyundai really should consider putting some stiffer springs on the Ioniq 5 then if it’s going to be a problem in the UK
Can't agree with this after testing one myself - coming from a BMW 5 then a GTD golf on large low profile wheels it is softer, but tbh that's no bad thing given the state of the roads around here. Opportunity for spirited driving in modern life is limited to maybe once or twice a month (and I live on the edge of countryside with great - but poorly surfaced roads).
Modern cars have been continually going down the track of sportier suspension and tyres for decades in order to garner good reviews from journalists who by definition like to press on more than the average. I love driving, but don't think that fidgety hard ride for the 95% of journeys in UK when you're just getting from A-B in traffic justifies the compromise if you only have 1 car. Of course in dreamland I'd also have a sporty little number in the garage for weekend fun.
Never felt that the I5 was overly wallowy and the looks, size in the back and fast charging rates more than compensated in my decision making.
My work has a salary sacrifice scheme, which is great for EVs as it brings the costs down
@dantsw13 how does that work? We're looking at "sustainable" benefit options just now and incentives to buy EV are high up on people's lists.
Basically, you pay for the car out of pre tax salary. There is also a NI saving for the employer, so worth their while. It will be run by an external company such as Octopus or Tusker. The NHS has a lot of these scheme and they are very popular.
70 is 1.16667 times more than 60. or resistance is proportional to the square of speed so, pretending you’re only doing work against air resistance you’d go from say 4.5m/kWh at 70 to 6.2 at 60.
doesn't that ignore the fact that you also arrive 1.1667 times quicker at 70 than 60, so you're using the energy for less time?
sn’t that ignore the fact that you also arrive 1.1667 times quicker at 70 than 60, so you’re using the energy for less time?
Not this basic calculation, no. If you assume air resistance is the only factor (as said, its not) then your battery's energy in joules is converted into work done against air resistance. Air resistance is a force, and work done (in Joules) is proportional to the force multiplied by the distance moved against that force. So twice the force needs twice the battery capacity to move the same distance, or you can move half the distance.
You are using the energy for less time but you're still using it. Your power has increased though.
Basically, you pay for the car out of pre tax salary. There is also a NI saving for the employer, so worth their while. It will be run by an external company such as Octopus or Tusker. The NHS has a lot of these scheme and they are very popular
I found the octopus lease scheme terrible value unless you take a tesla. Our work scheme is a fully insured and serviced option and always quoted NET of the salary sacrifice saving. ie how much it would cost from your take home. In many cases their NET quotes were more expensive then the lease costs freely available from quote engines. So something didn't add up. Maybe they couldn't be competitive on insurance and servicing so it massively changed the total costs, or perhaps they just had really bad terms on the base lease costs on anything but tesla. I never got a straight answer as to why the gross costs were so high, so passed on the opportunity.
Also, leasing a new car every year is pretty terrible for the environment. Much better to buy one and use it for a long time.
I'm in the pre-order / early adopter list for a Kia ev6. Hoping that I'll see it some time in the next few weeks/.
My work has tusker, and they are taking the p@@s a little. We have worked out that they drop the residual value below market value to force up the monthlies. They've been called out & prices have improved.
Im looking at £440/mo for an Ioniq5 ultimate 77KWh over 4 years/15,000mpa. this includes servicing, insurance, tyres tax etc, which, whilst not the full 40% saving, is way better than the open market.(Lings has it at £570 just the car & £1700 deposit too)
As you say^^^^^^ the companies will have deals with certain brands to get better prices. Right now discounts are rare as cars a like unicorns, with this chip shortage.
Not this basic calculation, no. If you assume air resistance is the only factor (as said, its not) then your battery’s energy in joules is converted into work done against air resistance. Air resistance is a force, and work done (in Joules) is proportional to the force multiplied by the distance moved against that force. So twice the force needs twice the battery capacity to move the same distance, or you can move half the distance.
You are using the energy for less time but you’re still using it. Your power has increased though.
I completely agree the energy needs increase as speed increases, but I understood (and I might be wrong, so seeking clarification rather than arguing) that air resistance for a given amount of time was the square of velocity. So if you do 60mph for an hour you will use, say, 10,000 jules of energy and if you do 70 you'd use 13,610 jules of energy. However, if you flipped that, surely for 60 miles you would use 10,000 of energy at 60mph and 13,610/1.16666 (which is 11,666) jules of energy at 70mph, as you're only using energy for ~51.5 minutes, not 60.
note, I've no idea really how much a jule is, so my example may be an order of magnitude out. The maths should still be solid though
this would approximately match the below, 20mph at 60-80 isn't using an extra 80% fuel, but maybe is using an extra 35%
https://www.greencarcongress.com/2006/05/fuel_consumptio.html
interesting that a bike on the roof adds 11% penalty at 60mph and 26% at 112mph. Note its from a german mag, hence the speeds
@5lab Yes, you are correct. However, the time saved is a linear relationship, while air resistance is exponential, so there will be a crossover point that marks the best speed to drive at (for a car with a certain drag coefficient), and above which air resistance will only make things worse. I remember reading somewhere that 50mph was about the best speed to drive at, from an efficiency point of view. I've also heard that 50mph is around the most efficient for allowing traffic to merge on and off faster roads. If so, it makes sense that the most efficient speed is also the most boring and frustrating to drive at.
50mph is around the most efficient for an ICE engine as I believe it allows the engine to operate in a high enough gear to be efficient (ie : doing 1,200 rpm in top), whilst minimising wind drag.
In an electric car I suspect the most economical speed will be really low - maybe 20mph or so (below which drag is fairly negligible) - but I suspect not many folks will want to be doing that speed, so the point is fairly moot
Those are ICE cars,5lab, and there's another factor a play, engine efficiency. Valve overlap makes engines inefficient before they come on the cam and very high revs are inefficient due to friction losses and incomplete scavenging. You can prove this to yourself by using different gears at the same speed. It's usually the highest gear that will pull cleanly that gets best fuel economy at low speed and somewhere around peak torque at higher speed. In the range 40mph-70mph increasing engine efficiency often offsets aerodynamic drag so consumption increases less than you'd expect as speed rises.
The efficiency of the electric motor in an EV is both speed and load dependant. At high loads and speed efficiency suffers. As you approach maximum speed in an EV aerodynamic drag increases as you'd expect but you also start to suffer motor inefficiency.
In practical terms his means the Zoé's consumption goes up more than you'd expect beyond 100kmh and at 130kmh you'll soon be looking for a charge point. There's only one autoroute journey I do at full speed, it's about 115km.