The Electric Car Thread

There is a large convenience aspect to it as well. I never own new cars, the newest I’ve ever bought was 12months old.

We run one car that we own (and a campervan) and the all inclusive, hassle free lease takes care of the other. It does cost a bit more than we would spend otherwise - the price of convenience.

A few weeks ago I got a puncture pulling on to the drive in the evening. A couple of hours later there was a guy on my drive fitting a new tyre. The text I received said it cost £277. If I owned the car I would have probably ended up taking the wheel off myself and taking it to a tyre place and it would’ve been at least the next day before I’d sorted it.

I first decided to lease 5 years ago because I wanted to try electric but didn’t want the risk of owning anything second hand. Now I’m happier that the technology has proved itself I’d be happy to buy and may do when we replace the current petrol GTI.

On the salary sacrifice route which my next car is using. it affects other payments such as student loans, which if like most people you will never pay off anyway might be seen as a benefit.

Leasing has to be overall more costly, as you don’t get the car (usually) at the end of a lease.

Not cut and dried.

It depends on depreciation which is factored in on a lease.

I've just got a Vauxhall Grandland Ultimate EV on 18mth lease for £310 down first payment and £310 monthly.

There is no scenario I know of where it's cheaper to buy/own over the same periond. If there is let me know.

A few weeks ago I got a puncture pulling on to the drive in the evening. A couple of hours later there was a guy on my drive fitting a new tyre. The text I received said it cost £277.

You don't need a lease for that - mobile tyre services are widely available.  The difference is that they don't charge you £277, but they'll charge the lease company that.

There is no scenario I know of where it's cheaper to buy/own over the same periond. If there is let me know.

Per month, no, because you're effectively spreading the cost over a longer period. But you aren't paying into an asset - even a depreciating one.

That's cheap, Rone, enjoy the car. You'd have to buy second hand (which you couldn't as it's a new model) and keep the thing for many years to beat that. When I bought the Zoé I calcualted it would be four years before buying outright was cheaper than leasing. In fact buying proved the better option quicker than expected due to new car inflation and what a new lease would have cost at three years. At five and a half years it doesn't owe me a lot and I still like it. I suspect I'll be keeping it years.

Yeah cheers Educator.

Key is to swap when it suits. I've bought cars - before depends on what deals are on offer.

Also suits my working circumstances - low miles sporadic jobs.

Lease is just mostly hassle free for me.

Posted by: rone

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Yeah cheers Edukator.

Key is to swap when it suits. I've bought cars - before depends on what deals are on offer.

Also suits my working circumstances - low miles sporadic location jobs - office mountain bike commute rest of time.

Lease is just mostly hassle free for me. And I see cars as necessary hassles. 

Posted by: rone

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Yeah cheers Edukator.

Key is to swap when it suits. I've bought cars - before depends on what deals are on offer.

Also suits my working circumstances - low miles sporadic location jobs - office mountain bike commute rest of time.

Lease is just mostly hassle free for me. And I see cars as necessary hassles. 

Yeah cheers Edukator.

Key is to swap when it suits. I've bought cars - before depends on what deals are on offer.

Also suits my working circumstances - low miles sporadic location jobs - office mountain bike commute rest of time.

Lease is just mostly hassle free for me. And I see cars as necessary hassles. 

Probably wouldn't work as well for higher mileage drivers.

(God knows why this has displayed three times.)

Posted by: molgrips

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You don't need a lease for that - mobile tyre services are widely available.  The difference is that they don't charge you £277, but they'll charge the lease company that.

 

Oh I know I don’t, the point was that I didn’t even need to google “Mobile Tyre Fitters”. I made 1 call to the number saved in my phone and someone else sorted it.

And I’d still have to pay even if it was a bit cheaper..

So I took my polestar to Thruxton for a track day - was an absolute blast!!

I folly closed the compression damping as the track was so smooth - a tiny bit of body roll around the faster corners, but handled itself well!

Was quite a chilled experience TBH - was an open pit lane, so we'd (me and @pictonroad) do 3 or 4 laps, then come back and let us and the car cool down. Wasn't there to break any lap records, but was an experience pushing the car in a safe environment!

I had a 20 min tutor session, and he was very impressed at EV acceleration!

The next booked adventure is the 'ring in late July - want to try adn get on another track before hand though!

DrP

Any other Enyaq owners having issues with CCS chargers? My car happily charges away on the 7kw or the 22kw (at 11kw) using my own cable.

It doesn't seem to like the 50kw fast chargers as the charging unit keeps telling me it has failed and it should be restarted.

I called ChargePlace Scotland and the guy told me the Enyaq has an advanced computer system and I should drive the car forward  and then back and stick it in park and that should sort the issue - it didn't.

Anyone else having a similar experience? If so, have you found a way to fix it?

There is no scenario I know of where it's cheaper to buy/own over the same periond. If there is let me know.

Well...I hope exciting times for me....The Energy Saving Trust Used electric vehicle loan has just opened up again over the weekend and I've got my application in and passed the first hurdle. Waiting on the final decision.

Basically, to qualify you need to live in Scotland and either have a household income below £50K or have a rural postcode.

It qualifies you to an interest free loan for a 2nd hand EV with a maximum value of £23K (that you can't top up) bought from trader not a private sale and repayments over up to 6 years. I still need to crunch the numbers once more to make sure it still makes sense but hopefully, I'll be in a position to buy in a week or 2. It's just what to buy - my needs and 'wants' list is quite long and getting it under £23k without significant milage on the clock might be a struggle.

Buying new (apart from no AWD option but appreciate that's a niche 'want') the new Renault 4 looks great. Might not be as 'cool' as the 5, but it'll tick a lot of boxes for a lot of people.

OK, EV fans, sell me your EV 😀 Not literally (unless the price is really good). But I'm supposed to be getting a charge point installed this week but am still no closer to finding an EV I actually want to buy. Since the answer to most "what should I buy" questions on here is "what I have" I thought I'd give you the chance to persuade me that your EV is really what I want. 

I tend to buy cars outright (rather than lease) and keep them for around 7 years and around 150,000 miles, so that's the aim here. Total cost of ownership over those seven years is more important to me than initial sticker price.  

When looking to replace my car I usually start by listing the things I most like about my current car (i.e. things I am keen to keep) and then add in the new things I've seen that I think I would like. So, starting with what I want to keep from the current car:

1. Reliability. In 150,000 miles it has never once failed to start or to get me where I want to go.  Plugging my phone in to access CarPlay (which takes care of all my navigation and entertainment needs) has also never failed. Doors open when they are supposed to. Alarm never goes off unnecessarily etc. Basically, everything just works. This is the main thing that puts me off any new car to be honest as they all seem to be so unreliable.  
2. Goes anywhere I want to go. Combination of decent ground clearance, decent tyres and AWD means I don't get stuck when it snows (as it still does up here in Aberdeenshire) and I can get down any farm track I might want to use to access a trail. 
3. Wipe clean seats/surfaces. No problem if I'm covered in mud after a ride or run. Ditto the dogs. Just wipe down with a damp cloth if it gets too manky. 
4. Size (4.3m long, 1.8m wide and 1.6m high) is just about perfect. Big enough for anything I need to carry but not a pain on country lanes or parking.
5. Doesn't beep at me unless I really am about to hit something. 
6. Adaptive cruise control that just works and doesn't brake for no apparent reason. 
7. Hatchback with flat floor so dogs can jump in the back easily. 
8. Colour. Actually has some i.e. not black, white or grey.  

Stuff I've seen I'd like to have on my next car:

1. A reliable app that will allow me to warm the car up from the comfort of my house/office or out on the trail. Don't need lots of functions though and reliability beats functions as long as it can do the basics.
2. Good sound system. This along with comfy seats are probably top of my lists of wants.
3. 360 degree cameras look quite cool (although may be of limited use in practice unless there is a way to keep them clean) 
4. Heated windscreen washer nozzles. OK, it's only a factor on a few days a year but it always amazes me that these aren't standard on modern cars. All those safety features but you can drive around on a cold day without any way of cleaning the screen!  

Range wise I'd like a guaranteed 220 mile range on the motorway in winter, so I guess that means as least 300 miles WLTP (and ideally a bit more) 

Posted by: DrP

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So I took my polestar to Thruxton for a track day - was an absolute blast!!

What are the insurance requirements for that ? Did you have a specific policy for the day ?

You're missing a budget, Roverpig. I'll start with a Renault Scenic e-tech Esprit Alpine on a set of Michelin Cross Climates with a set of snow chains in the boot for that one day in ten years you need them, and many sets of plastic seat covers like the  ones the Renault mechanics put on when they service the car. I don't own one, just a humble Zoe. 

The Renault mechanics put some pink gloop in the washers which absolutely never freezes even on the coldest day of the year in Tigne.

Thanks @Edukator. Funnily enough, the Scenic is currently top of my list. Well technically the model Y seems closest to what I want buy y’know 😀

Concerns with the Scenic are (in no particular order)

• Bigger than I really want
• While I know I don’t really need AWD to cope with the snow a bit more ground clearance would be nice. 
• To get the better stereo (and better/360 cameras) I’d need to go up to the iconic trim and that means light grey fabric seats. Most seat covers look pretty awful but I guess it’s not out of the question
• Concerns over durability of the motors (stories of bearing failures in the Zoe after 80k and Renault not providing the bearing as a spare part)
• A few other faults reported and Renault taking their time to fix them. 

But it certainly ticks more of my boxes than most  

Whilst my Hyundai bongs all over the place, we have learned to live with it - and one day a bong may save my life. It has a physical button to turn off the lane following, which you need on narrow B style roads.  But other than that the lane keep assist is pretty good and it doesn't randomly brake.  It sometimes brakes when it doesn't need to, like if you are on a road that curves to the left and there is a car stopped in the other lane - but in fairness, you are driving towards an obstacle. It's also not hard to override, you just keep driving and once it knows you are doing something it lets you do it.

My actual car doesn't meet your requirements though, but in general Hyundai assistance is good if a little bong happy.

Thanks @molgrips. I must admit I really like that single button in the Renaults that turns all the safety settings to your personal preferences. But reliability trumps everything and I know Hyundai/Kia have a decent reputation in that regard. 

Obviously there isn’t going to be any one car that meets all my wants, or I’d have bought it by now 😀 I guess what I’m really trying to decide on is which ones I should give up on.

What are the insurance requirements for that ? Did you have a specific policy for the day ?

So cos it's a track you're not insured under your usual policy..and you can get track day insurance.. but I opted not to (which is a risk I chose to take).

It was my first track day, and actually felt safer than on the road! Everyone is going in the same direction, Thruxton has a lot of run off, and it was a very uneventful day.

I'd thoroughly recommend a track day if you're at all interested in pushing your car a bit!

DrP

I always fancied ragging my boring old Passat around a track just for a laugh, but I'd be worried about shredding the tyres. More so on the Merc where they are £180 each

But reliability trumps everything and I know Hyundai/Kia have a decent reputation in that regard. 

There are only 3 issues I've heard of with these cars. My Ioniq and the earlier Konas, and their Kia equivalents have an undersized 12V battery and it can expire a bit early. It wasn't an issue for me as the dash warned me so I replaced it at 4 years cheap and easy.

The bigger issue is the ICCU (charging and power control) units on Ioniq 5s. There is a problem on models up to I think 2025 when a new part becomes available.  It seems to be a much bigger problem in the USA where they use higher current AC chargers but it still happens here. Something like 1% of cars. They are being repaired under warranty but the biggest problem is lack of availability of the part. 

So if youre considering used vs new in Hyundai/Kia bear that in mind. 

Posted by: molgrips

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The bigger issue is the ICCU (charging and power control) units on Ioniq 5s.

Is it the same unit as Kia use? Mate at work didn’t have his car for about 2 months whilst they waited for the part.

I got mine changed under warranty.  Took about an hour 

Is it the same unit as Kia use?

I think so. It's all over the forums. But like I say, I think they've changed the part for 2025.  Don't take my word for it though, do your own research, so to speak 🙂

Posted by: molgrips

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it still happens here. Something like 1% of cars

There are 3 EV6's in the company fleet and they've all had this issue. It's not too big a deal when spares are available; thi swas an issue earlier this year.

And I4's all have heater issues. Whatcha gonna do?

Posted by: boomerlives

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Posted by: molgrips

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it still happens here. Something like 1% of cars

There are 3 EV6's in the company fleet and they've all had this issue. It's not too big a deal when spares are available; thi swas an issue earlier this year.

And I4's all have heater issues. Whatcha gonna do?

do you mean id4’s and heater problems, cabin heating or heat pump ?

was just thinking of ordering one

I always fancied ragging my boring old Passat around a track just for a laugh, but I'd be worried about shredding the tyres. More so on the Merc where they are £180 each

I'd suggest doing it! I was worried it would be a track packed with loads of aggressive drivers, but for the most part the treack felt empty. I did an 'open pit lane' where you jsut come adn go, rather than a fixed 20 min session.

Yeah, tyre wear will be accelerated,but you won't shred through a whole set by any means.

DrP

Posted by: DrP

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Yeah, tyre wear will be accelerated,but you won't shred through a whole set by any means.

Pfffffttt.... were you even trying ? 🤣 

LOL!

I was trying...and there was a fair bit of tyre squeal...but MY trying might be different from yours!!!!

I did actually buy a second set of wheels and tyres, to save my expensive all season tyres!

DrP

So, I've now got a charge point at home. No EV yet, but we'll come back to that later no doubt. Just wanted to share my experiences with getting the charge point installed by ChrgedEV as they were quite comically awful from start to finish. No that we've quite finished yet as you'll see.

It started when I went onto the web site of my electricity supplier (OVO) and clicked on the link to get an EV charger installed. This was sometime around the beginning of November. So it's only taken around 7 months 😀 

I thought getting my electricity supplier to do the install would make sense as they know all about my supply, but of course the link on their site really just passes you on to the company (ChargedEV) that they have contracted to do the install. 

It started off easily enough. I had to choose a charger, so that involved a bit of reading about chargers, but there were only a couple of options and I chose the Ohme Home Pro as it seemed to do what I wanted and reviews were generally positive. Then came the bit where they wanted all sorts of photos and details. 

I didn't have time to complete that at the time, so saved the application for later. Over the next ten days or so ChargedEV contacted me by phone, text or email on an almost daily basis to remind me that the application wasn't complete and to ask if I needed help. I kept pointing out that I'd get round to it when I had time and eventually they stopped bugging me. 

A week or so later I got round to taking all the photos and providing all the data then hit submit. I got the automated response confirming submission and saying they'd be in touch in a few days after reviewing the application. But a week went by and no reply, so I went back on the site and hit submit again. Same message and same lack of response. Did this a few more times and eventually got an email apologising for the slow response and asking me to call them as they had some more questions. 

That was my first (and only) interaction with their phone system, which appears to be totally useless. I got the usual "all our agents are busy" message and an option to either "press 1" and they'd call me back or to hang on the phone. Since I didn't know if I'd be free later, I elected to wait. And wait. And wait. And ... eventually they said they couldn't connect the call so I'd just have to press 1. I did that and they promised to call back sometime in the next 24 hours! Sure enough they tried to call the next day and of course I was busy. They tried again to be fair and eventually I was able to speak with a person who said they needed photos of my oil supply.

I provided the photos and after a few days (and a few missed calls) they got back to say that my oil supply needed earth bonding and they could add this to the quote for £100. I couldn't really see why the supply needed earth bonding. The tank is plastic. There is a copper pipe supplying the oil to the house, but it is covered in plastic and runs underground. If the plastic is intact then it's insulated and if it's not then it is earthed anyway as it is underground. But I guess they know the rules so I accepted that and we agreed a date for the install. Yay !

About a week before the original installation date I got a call to say the engineer for my area had left at short notice so they would have to reschedule but didn't know when that would be. OK, these things happen and about a month later they got back in touch and we agreed a new installation date (yesterday). 

 Then about two weeks before the new date I get another call to say that I can't actually have the Ohme charger as it isn't "part of my package" even though it was one of only two that they originally gave me to choose from. I can only assume that their agreement with OVO has changed in the intervening months. They gave me two choices on the pone but didn't know any details about either, so I had to go do some more reading and eventually went for the Indra Smart Lux as it is compatible with solar (which we might want to add in future) and was the only option with a 10m tethered cable (which the Ohme had). 

Over the next couple of weeks I had various reminders to tell me that I hadn't paid the invoice, which was due 7 days before the installation. I kept pointing out that the only invoice I had was for the Ohme charger, which they said I couldn't have, so I'd need a new invoice. Eventually a day before the installation date they sent the correct invoice, but didn't include a link to actually pay it and the link they had sent previously still took me to the old invoice for the wrong charger. I asked for a payment link, but no reply.

Yesterday the installers turned up. The installation went OK, but they didn't do the earth bonding for the oil supply as they said it wasn't necessary!

This morning I got two emails. One to say that the installation was complete and another asking me to pay an invoice for the original Ohme charger (which they didn't install) and oil bonding (which they didn't do). I've asked for them to send me a correct invoice and a link to pay it, but so far, no reply. 

So, I currently have a shiny new Indra Smart Lux charger, which I haven't paid for 😀 

By the way, I still can't fully understand how the OVO Charge Anytime tariff works. I dare say it will make sense once I actually get an EV and start to play with it, but the information online isn't exactly clear. 

I understand the basic idea. Unlike, say, Octopus where you get a cheap rate overnight for the whole house in exchange for paying slightly more during the day, with OVO you can charge the EV at 7p/kwh at anytime (hence the name) and your regular price/kwh stays the same. The "catch" being that you only get the 7p rate for your EV charging, not the whole house. 

So you plug in the EV, say when you need it to be ready and let it sort out the best time to charge. Sounds simple enough. But what's to stop you just saying that you want it ready at a time where it would have to start charging immediately and for the whole period? It says you can get that 7p rate anytime and I can't see anything in the T&Cs that would stop you doing this. But then there is also the option to "charge immediately" at your standard rate, so why would you ever do that and why is that even an option if you can "charge anytime" for 7p/kwh?

Posted by: retrorick

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£7995 gets you a 20 plate Hyundai ionic near me. (Independent garage north Manchester.) Not sure of the mileage but it looks like the premium se version

This car had recently disappeared from view at the dealership, I wondered if it had been shifted to the back but I saw it this evening driving locally so it looks like someone  bought it. 

Anyone got a Ford explorer and able to share their experience of it?

Have been offered a brilliant deal on one, apart from googling the car and I know it’s an id4 underneath, can’t find my reason not to go for it. It’s a pretty generic ev, drives ok etc.

the only thing I can see is Ford aren’t exactly selling many at all.

Got an Enyaq (which is an id4 with different clothes on)...it is ok, I'm happy driving it but the interior is too light for mountain biking so make sure it is dark interior.

Only other complaint is the range, but I couldn't afford the bigger capacity battery, I'd suggest going for the bigger capacity one and it should be spot on (well for me anyway)...

Thanks. I don’t think the interior is mtb friendly, though it’s rated for towing, so can put a Towbar on for the bike rack, so that’s good.
It’s the Extended Range 77kWh RWD Premium, so most of the toys and the range seems pretty good 

I’m sure this has been covered before in the preceding 00’s of pages - but I’ll ask anyway - is a heat pump a must have ?

Deal I’ve been offered is for a car without a heat pump, bit disappointing but there it is.

Yes re heat pump, as much for the battery preconditioning as the range improvement  - I didn't and in winter the reduction in charging speed at rapid chargers from 150-225kw down to 50-85 max is frustrating.

is a heat pump a must have ?

Can't offer real world experience as still an EV virgin hoping to pop cherry in the next few weeks. But am on the search too.

Here is my thinking....

I want one but....

• I'm told it makes 10% difference in the right conditions.....Well for 3 months of the year my average commute to work is in -3 deg, and home the average temp is 0 deg. So I reckon I live in the sort of place where 'right conditions' is a thing.
• But most of my days will be a 55miles round trip on back country roads so the improvement in range won't make the journey possible or impossible.
• And if I charge at home 95%+ of the time the cost difference in leccy used probably doesn't justify the premium in cost to buy a car with one so probably doesn't make a lot of sense financially.

So it's still on the nice to have list but it's not on the must have list. I'm buying 2nd hand and I'm fussy enough with my other 'needs' and on a tight enough budget that it might have to slip unless I'm persuaded otherwise to prioritise it.

Heat pump was not a deal breaker for me.

Had a GV60 with a heat pump and an EV6 without. Difference in what is essentially the same car underneath was noticeable but not significantly so.

It’s a nice to have rather than an essential. 

Having a heat pump or not is unrelated to the battery preconditioning heater which is a separate system in both of those cars. Other manufacturers may vary 

It's a no from me - it seemed to only really an issue if you're making the sort of journeys in winter where the small difference in range is important. If you're charging at home most of the time then there's a small drop in cold weather efficiency without the heat pump so a few pence more cost each charge, but if the heat pump adds £££s you'd need to work out how long it'd take to recoup that.

Posted by: pedlad

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Yes re heat pump, as much for the battery preconditioning as the range improvement  - I didn't and in winter the reduction in charging speed at rapid chargers from 150-225kw down to 50-85 max is frustrating.

that would be frustrating 

so mixed responses to the heat pump question 

If I was speccing a new car build I’d have one, but no choice on this & I can’t tell if it’s potentially going to be a pita or not. 
if it affects the charging efficiency/ speed - presumably that’s just on the fast chargers away from home 

You can think of it a bit like different battery options. Most people could make do with the smaller battery option where a car has one as most days you wont need the extra range of the bigger battery and you pay a fair bit more for it. But most people tend to go for the larger battery if they can and I can't really see why they don't also spec the heat pump if possible too. It may not make a difference most days, but on the days wen it does you are going to regret not having one. 

I don’t have one as it was a nearly £1k extra in my Born, that would just not pay for itself IMO so I couldn’t justify it. My daily drive is not usually more than 70miles and I only ever really charge at home so couldn’t care about improved range or charging efficiency over a few winter months. The odd long winter drive I do I need to stop and charge anyway so an extra 30\40miles or a faster top up wouldn't really change this.  If you were putting in big miles regularly over winter with lots ofpublic charging you might want one. The wife’s Inster has one as standard but she barely does 20miles a day so is not really of any benefit to her either.

I've been running an iX3 since september. Doesn't have a heat pump, but does have a battery heater to precondition for charging. But the vast majority of my mileage has been local so i rarely use the preconditioner as charging at home. Just on the occassional long trips, so not sure how much difference that makes.

I can get the car to climatise before leaving (in hot or cold weather) which is nice, but has no bearing on heatpumps

Getting a heatpump would not pay for itself in my use scenario.

Don't have one and didn't think the £750 extra would be worth it. I tend to use slower chargers and in the office so no issues with a longer charge time.

Unsure what improvement on range it would make but if it is 10% then I'd be adding 18 miles to my range, so I'd still be charging the same amount of time and frequency.

Posted by: susepic

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a heatpump would not pay for itself

Neither does a BMW 😀 

I mean cars are full of things that don’t make sense economically. Fancy stereo, leather seats, sunroof etc. Why draw the line at a heat pump, which is at least useful. 

lol 

it’s a ford explorer through tusker. Most of the in stock cars don’t have heat pumps, apart from the byd’s. I’ll have to check if the heat pump is the only way to prime the battery ready for charging or if it does it some other clever way

its for my wife, mileage is mostly local and only one biggish trip every week, of circa 120 miles

Battery preconditioning on an Explorer does not require a heat pump , but given the above information, no matter what, the heat pump and its inclusion/exclusion is totally irrelevant to the journey profile described.