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My understanding is that smaller wheels with more tyre sidewall have lower rolling resistance. I dont know if this is true or not, but i remember when ordering a Corolla a few years ago that the higher spec (bigger wheel) models had slightly increased emissions and lower mpg.
Any thoughts on the likely outcomes of the reported “fast track” consolation on EV sales?
I see the anti-EV brigade are already flooding Youtube with clickbait videos proclaiming the death of the ZEV mandate despite the government stating that it is going to remain. Not that I've watched any but they were quick to jump on this bit of "news".
I'd expect a bit of can-kicking with lots of warm words about the overall goals remaining the same.
I'm not really sure where I stand on the ZEV mandate to be honest. On the one hand, given recent stories about melting Antarctic ice and a possible slowdown/shutdown of the AMOC, any relaxing of the push towards greener transportation seems daft. On the other hand I'm not sure that fining car manufacturers because customers don't want their EVs is going to do anything other than accelerate the demise of European car making as they are forced to either sell cars at a loss or buy credits from the likes of BYD.
I don't mind a bit of stick given the scale of the challenge but some more carrot might be more effective. Although, given the state of the national finances maybe sticks are all they can afford.
On the other hand I’m not sure that fining car manufacturers because customers don’t want their EVs is going to do anything
I'm with you on this.... seems very harsh but maybe that's what's needed. You do wonder about the effect on manufacturers though.
ordering a Corolla a few years ago that the higher spec (bigger wheel) models had slightly increased emissions and lower mpg.
I think it's a combination of 'bigger wheel generally = wider tyre therefore greater rolling resistance" (times four, obviously) combined with the higher spec model will often be heavier due to more fancy on-board standard fittings. All of which require burning more fuel to pull it along, as a bit of a simplification. The same generalisation prob applies to EVs too
On the other hand I’m not sure that fining car manufacturers because customers don’t want their EVs is going to do anything
Already have some fines of sorts in some markets on engine size/emissions. It's one reason that the Prius exists, it brought Toyotas fleet average down massively in the US. So Toyota could carry on making and selling larger vehicles and trucks, that their customers loved. But every sale attracted an additional cost.
I'm not convinced it's actually a reduction in demand for EVs as such, more for European / traditional OEMs EV's.
Given how much cheaper and better equipped the Chinese competition is, I think the European EVs struggle to look competitive. I'm seeing a rapid increase in BYD, MG etc cars on the roads when out and about.
Any punitive action from the UK and European governments needs to be quite carefully considered to avoid increasing the damage to the European car industry.
IMO the cost of public charging is a negative at the moment. people quite rightly thing "hangon, thats about the same a tank of fuel" which it is but its not every charge, its usually only when you away from home (assuming you can charge at home). it makes the move to EV a little bit harder to justify, get public charging down from 80-90/p/kWh to 30-40p/kWh and suddenly its nudging people in the direction you want.
The very least they could do for people without home charging is roll out a subscription programme where you pay monthly and get a seriously reduced tariff at the rapid charger. They already do something like this but I'm not sure it's enough.
As said, public charging costs need to come down on fast chargers. There are a lot of people who don't have off road parking and can't take advantage of the cheaper tariffs.
My employer is moving to EVs, however I know someone with a terraced house in York and another in Norwich who have no way to charge at home, making them impractical.
They can use fast chargers yes, but the cost of those is very touch and go when claiming mileage back, in some cases it ends up with the user out of pocket.
I just checked, you can get Ionity (for example) at 43p if you pay £10/mo. If you are rapid charging more than about.. <fumbles with calculator..> 100 miles a month is depending on your efficiency? Then it might be worth it. So clearly for someone depending on rapid charging it would be well worth it. But not for someone like me only doing the occasional trip.
almost certainly covered but on a 193 page thread I am not searching with the quality of search....
My current Polo is nearing the end of its PCP, looking at offers available. a base spec ID3 is about the same price. For 90% of my use the range would be fine. but, If I drive down to the Swiss alps, how realistic, how long is this likely to take? Just wondering how c50kwh batteries rate for longer journeys.
alps, how realistic, how long is this likely to take? Just wondering how c50kwh batteries rate for longer journeys.
I have a 58kw Cupra Born (an ID3 basically but it was cheaper). Knocking about on short journeys I get 5-6km+ per kw. On long fully loaded motorway trips driving at 120kmph+ it drops to about 4-5km per kw. My 700km trip involves 2 stops (after 250km and about 450km, stopping for about 45mins x2) and I arrive with very little charge. If I wanted to arrive with more charge as a safety net I do a quick 15 min 3rd stop to top up (or I could drive slower). Basically I get 200-250km between charges (usually charge to 80% only for speed hence the drop in km) when fully loaded on motorways and 300km+ mixed driving at home.
We have just returned from a trip to Peterborough, 200 miles round trip. 100% charge to start and down to 35% capacity by the time we got there. A fast charge to 85% before coming back took 45 minutes on Instavolt (cost £35!!) and we had 30% left when we got back. 3 year old ID.3 running in Eco mode at an indicated 73mph on adaptive cruise control to avoid getting pinged by the average speed cams on the way to Cambridge, raining windy and 7-ish C temperatures in both directions.
At 100% capacity the car claimed it was going to do 217 miles when we started out. Lies as a bad as software install progress bars.
At 100% capacity the car claimed it was going to do 217 miles when we started out. Lies as a bad as software install progress bars
Just get a Tesla
A fast charge to 85% before coming back took 45 minutes on Instavolt (cost £35!!) and we had 30% left when we got back
Should have fast charged to 60% which would have got you home with 15%, less time and money at the charger. Any Tesla chargers near your route? Usually cheaper than other providers.
Did you charge after the the battery had cooled back down?
At 100% capacity the car claimed it was going to do 217 miles when we started out. Lies as a bad as software install progress bars
Probably based on consumption on the previous 200 miles - if they were local and low speed you won't get the same at 73mph.
At 100% capacity the car claimed it was going to do 217 miles when we started out. Lies as a bad as software install progress bars.
It's not lying, it's an estimate based on previous driving. The car doesn't know if it's windy, or if there's water on the road etc. Those things have a huge effect on any car. We went out on Sunday, we normally get 5.0, or 4.8 m/kWh in cooler weather but we got 3.9 on the way out and that only went up to 4.1 on the way back.
At 100% capacity the car claimed it was going to do 217 miles when we started out. Lies as a bad as software install progress bars.
Did the range estimate not quickly start to fall once you got a few miles into the long higher speed journey?
Or is the vw range estimation algorithm a bit stupid?
Our car(not a vw) seems to use some combination of outside temperature, average consumption over the last few miles, and state of charge to give an estimate of range remaining. It seems reasonably accurate once you settle in to the journey. But we've done enough miles in it now to know that in coldish weather it'll do 180 miles at motorway speeds, rising to 200 miles in warmer weather, so I just go by those two numbers for working out whether I'll need to stop for a top up.
It’s not lying, it’s an estimate based on previous driving.
It's a bit hopeless on the mostly local driving too, claiming 160-ish miles on 80% charge where we may get 130 out of it in economy mode. We have an ongoing issue where it won't talk to the home charger and only Mrs Sandwich's phone. I did the 12V battery disconnect and re-boot on Saturday and it decided to tell us what was occurring but by the evening it was sulking again. It's quite nice thing to drive but the software side of things are currently letting it down.
Did you charge after the the battery had cooled back down?
We pootled out of town after a 5 hour visit, I would expect the battery to have only just warmed up after 5 miles. It was such foul weather we went with the bigger charge to avoid a second stop if the wind went against us around Cambridge.
Any Tesla chargers near your route?
Probably, but I wouldn't give Musk the steam off my fresh urine, let alone money.
It’s a bit hopeless on the mostly local driving too, claiming 160-ish miles on 80% charge where we may get 130 out of it in economy mode
Yeah many aren't accurate. Mine is actually a bit conservative, the times I've pushed it it's gained a bit at the lower end e.g. 200 miles at 100% but 25 miles at 10%.
Battery temps are a funny thing. They need to be reasonably warm to get the best range, but they don't get that warm during normal use in cooler weather. They could be heated up artificially but the capacity you'd gain isn't worth the energy you'd use heating it up.
I haven't monitored battery temps accurately but the Leaf had a noddy temperature gauge on the dash. I noticed that a few hard accelerations up to 80mph on the motorway caused it to increase quite a bit. So it may be possible to warm it up a bit that way. But driving gently does not do it.
Has anybody used ChargedEV for installation of a home charger?
I'm currently with OVO energy and contemplating getting an EV, so thought I'd look at their tariffs. They mentioned that they could take care of installation of a home charger, but when I clicked on the link it seems to have taken me to this other company (ChargedEV) who presumably do the installations for them. I entered a few basic details (including my mobile number) and now they keep phoning and texting to get me to move onto the next stage (uploading pictures of the site to get a quote). Fair enough, I initiated the request and a text to say I hadn't completed the process isn't unusual. But they have texted and called so often now that I'm starting to think that this must be a pretty good deal for them, which is actually starting to put me off.
Summer capacity was showing as 264miles on my Enyaq (temperature was about 20c), now temperature is around 6c or lower, my range is down to 190miles and the battery does drop quicker.
Charging also seems to take longer...7kw charger and it seems to be about 1 hour-ish longer to get to required battery level. The charging level does appear to fluctuate more so I'm assuming that is why it takes longer to charge.
Looking to replace my aging Leaf 24KWH which we've had for about 8 years. Our circumstances have changed and we need a second car that can cover more than 50 miles!
I want a real world range of 200 miles or more and a warranty of at least 3 years on a second hand car up to £20k. We'll be purchasing outright as I don't do leasing. Also needs to have heated front seats, take roofbars and have reasonable boot space. A towbar for a bike rack would also be important....
Wife won't entertain a Tesla anymore.
These fairly stringent demands leave me an MG ZS 72kwh, Niro 3 and Kona (older generations) - all great cars but sooooooo dull looking.
Then I saw the Megane E tech which looks pretty good in photos - but I have rarely ever seen one on the road. Has there been any info on this thread about them or does anyone have any first hand knowledge?
Or should I bust the budget on an Ioniq 5?
I want a real world range of 200 miles or more and a warranty of at least 3 years on a second hand car up to £20k. We’ll be purchasing outright as I don’t do leasing. Also needs to have heated front seats, take roofbars and have reasonable boot space. A towbar for a bike rack would also be important….
I've ordered a new Hyundai Inster, a bit over your £20k budget. Definately not dull looking. Boot big enough with the rear seats slid forward (or down). Not sure about taking a tow bar though.
want a real world range of 200 miles or more and a warranty of at least 3 years on a second hand car up to £20k. We’ll be purchasing outright as I don’t do leasing. Also needs to have heated front seats, take roofbars and have reasonable boot space. A towbar for a bike rack would also be important…
Kia Soul EV - one of the 64 kWh ones.
We are 3 weeks into a 21 plate Hyundai Kona ownership which replaced a Zoé. I’m pretty impressed and an Ioniq 5 is now high on the list to replace my e-Tron next summer.
I blame @molgrips ?
Roverpig
Charged ev do the installation.
They are legit and do need photos of the installation site to ensure they turn up with the right kit.
I’ve ordered a new Hyundai Inster,
Funny you mention the Inster. I was just reading up on it last night and am really tempted to get one. Looks decent kit for the money. Can I ask when you are getting yours as I couldn't find a release date. What version did you go for?
They could be heated up artificially but the capacity you’d gain isn’t worth the energy you’d use heating it up.
Depends on lots of things, the battery properties/chemistry/architecture and the heating system/features, plus how cold it actually is (ambient) and how cold the core of the battery has got and what the SoC actually is and what you want it to be (if you are charging).
Long story short, it can be worth preheating/conditioning the battery, both to allow faster charging and to get a more optimised discharge.
Based on above I just jumped onto the used approved hyundai to see how much something the same age/miles as my Ioniq 5 is and they're becoming quite affordable. What is daft is the variation in descriptions and missing detail - key @winston is to make sure you get one with pre conditioning (economy pack I think they called it, bundled with heat pump) as it was standard on most models in the early years. My only gripe with the car is significantly increased DC charging in the winter.
@winston - I've got a Megane Etech, I've had it from new as a company car, it was registered in Dec '22 and it's now on about 26k miles. I really like it, one of my friends used to have a Tesla Model 3 performance and the car bits feel better on my Megane even though the Tesla was obvioulsly even quicker. If I was buying a used one I think I'd be looking for at least Techno+ trim, that model comes with a heat pump, my old Techno doesn't. I don't think it affects the range much in summer but I think I'd get better range with heat pump air conditioning in winter.
I haven't had any issues with mine, I love the fact that everything's powered by Google inside and there's proper switches and heater controls. The 60kw battery they come with is good for 260ish miles in summer, about 190 when it gets chilly. It feels quick, well equipped but it's not the only car in our household, we've got a diesel too.
After I jumped through all their home survey hoops last week, I've just had notification that an installer will be in contact regarding the Ohme that VW are providing as part of our purchase. Yay!
Hopefully that means our car's not too far off, currently 3 months from order date and counting .....
Funny you mention the Inster. I was just reading up on it last night and am really tempted to get one. Looks decent kit for the money. Can I ask when you are getting yours as I couldn’t find a release date. What version did you go for?
I'm in Dublin, Ireland, they're available in Jan, limited colours and only black interior. Mine is due in March as I wanted a colour that isn't in the Jan availability and I'm not in any hurry, It's replacing an 18yo Ford Focus that is still running fine.
I got to do a test drive in one last week and I found it really nice to drive. Didn't get to take it out on a Motorway though.
I went for the higher spec 49kw version. Wanted the multiple seat configurations and roof bars, larger battery doesn't hurt either.
"Kia Soul EV – one of the 64 kWh ones"
I did look at the Soul but it has a tiny boot - Very good value for money but my wife was not a fan of its looks and she will be the main driver. The Inster has an even smaller boot!
Need at least 400+ litres
Thanks for the info @chrispoffer. Bit disappointed to hear you get less than 200 miles in the winter - unfortunately we are in a use case where we quite often need to do more than 200 miles in one hit.
The other thing that puts me off is having to go with 20" rims - I absolutely hate big wheels on small cars, both the ride, the looks and the cost of tyres, especially as EVs are quite heavy on tyres.
Whilst I want another BEV because they are so cheap to run and easy to drive it may end up having to be a hybrid.
Yes, I had to have 2 front tyres fitted at 21k miles, they were moderately expensive - but as they're quite narrow, they were a chunk cheaper than my Mrs's car, also on 20s but massively wide too. And 20" wheels look so cool! 🙂
The Techno+ or Iconic with the heat pump will probs get better mileage than mine in winter. They do a lower spec model (Equilibre) that comes on 18s but it doesn't have the Google powered infotainment. Or a heat pump for the AC.
unfortunately we are in a use case where we quite often need to do more than 200 miles in one hit.
Without a break?
Yes, I would rather not take a break till I got there.
unfortunately we are in a use case where we quite often need to do more than 200 miles in one hit.
Just remember that whilst it might take half an hour or whatever to get to 80%, you would only need a very quick boost so it would probably be ten minutes or less. Not trying to dissuade you from a higher range car mind.
@molgrips tbh once I'd gone to the trouble of pulling off and found a working charger, I'd probably whack it up to 80% anyway but its a good point.
I’m in Dublin, Ireland, they’re available in Jan, limited colours and only black interior. Mine is due in March as I wanted a colour that isn’t in the Jan availability and I’m not in any hurry
Thanks. believe it or not I am in Cork. Interesting about the interior as the black is not shown as an option on the website. Going to go along to our nearby dealer and see if they have one to look at/drive.
My mum has the base spec Mégane, 25,000 miles now she got it from launch. Still on the original tyres/pads/discs etc. It hasn't been without fault, the alarm has gone off a few times and some faults with the infotainment, the worst being full volume radio while driving and the volume buttons stop working, you have to reset the screen to bring it back to life. She wanted a driver's car, and the Mégane is light and low. She loves it. Why not book a test drive and reset the trip counter then go for a long jolly, see what m/kWh you get and extrapolate a full charge from that. Most dealers don't mind a long test drive long as you ask, I drove out Buzz 120 miles in mid winter for its test.
A first edition Soul gets you a great stereo, heat pump and all the posh interior. It only has a small boot with the seats up, depends if you need boot space plus back seat people. We rarely have anyone in the back so chose it for the big square load space. It has been great, had it since late 2020 and not planning on changing it for anything. Used for 14k would be an amazing deal. Will do 210+ miles in Scottish winter easily - Glencoe and back from Forth road bridge is no bother on one charge.
I have booked my pre facelift Ioniq in for the annual service....
As always a pleasant phone call.
They said it was the major service with an eye watering £500 bill including a hoover and wash + hopefully a free tank of electricity (the good stuff not the off peak electrons) for that amount!
I queried what the service consisted of and around £200 was the battery coolant refresh. I mentioned that they had done it a year ago via the recall and they were happy to take it off the service.
So £300 for hopefully a clean bill of health and a stamp in the service book.
They mentioned the service plans so I asked for a brochure to be sent to me to see if it is worth while in spreading the cost of this service and any future services over 3 years. I doubt it will be. This might be the last dealer service the Ioniq gets? Future repairs will probably be the wear and tear items and mot requirements?
Hyundai have been good. They replaced my charging cable under warranty so that saved me a few quid.
I think I'll start selling my clothes on vinted to raise a few quid towards the running costs! ?
'Cheap' pleasant motoring so far though. The heated seat and steering wheel is great!
9 years ago when I bought my Leaf from a Nissan main dealer it came with 2 years free servicing. On the second one they phoned up beforehand and tried to upsell me an engine flush.
It’s not lying, it’s an estimate based on previous driving. The car doesn’t know if it’s windy, or if there’s water on the road etc. Those things have a huge effect on any car.
Agree with this.
However, it is so obvious it begs the question why all these clever, internerd connected cars cannot run a weather forecast and improve the estimate. As ever it feels like the effort goes into spangly paint, slick marketing and a shitty UX on a 'clever' screen, rather than the fundamentals of improving range and charge estimates.
While I am not a fan of Tesla cars, their charging and journey planning is much better than many others it seems.
Absolutely loving my EQA. Its a shame so many dont seem to get it with EV's but its ticking all the boxes for me at present.
With regards to calculated range. My sat nav predicts the % of battery at end destination. It is almost faultless tbh and i have even beaten it a couple of times (70mph in poor weather) so it is not being over optimistic.
I did a 236mls each way trip recently which went 100% to plan. Set off early doors and had a stop planned at a Tesla charging spot after about 150 miles. Stopped, plugged in @ 41p/kw and went for a pee. Came back, had a quick cup of coffee and set off. 25min in total and 85% charge level. Got to my end destination at 48% charge level which was enough to get back to the same Tesla charge site on return trip. Repeat charge and home. Cost about £19 x 2 charges plus the original charge at 7p/kw = £5. So £43 in total with about 50 mins in total time spent charging.
Balance this out with my old diesel car, the initial charge at home which i would have had to do a diesel stop for say 10 mins. Plus i would need a stop of 10 mins for a top up to compete the journey so i would say it cost me 30 mins extra in total. Big deal as i got a pee & coffee break included.
I do a trip like that once in a blue moon. In comparison i am charging it at home once per week at 7p/kw (More like £2.50) and i no longer hand out £20-40 per week in diesel. Oh and every time i do charge at home, guess what, im saving 10-20 mins of my time because i just plug it in and go in the house. Its fully fuelled/charged up when i wake up.
Its not for everyone but crikey it works for me. Havent mentioned how much company car tax its saving me either.