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I can’t quite understand the adverts on Auto trader saying they have a 7kW charger I’m assuming that’s their max AC charging rate as they’re also quoting public/DC charging at up to 100kW?
Car chargers aren’t really chargers at all. They’re just electricity supplies for the chargers that are built in to each car. Each car will have an AC charger -usually 7kw or 11kw- and a DC charger, the max speeds of which vary widely from car to car.
Domestic single phase AC on most houses will only supply 7kw max. Three phase AC maxes out at 22kw but very few cars, Leafs and Zoes, will do 22kW
TBH i reckon 95% of EV charging is via home 7kW chargers….
Even if your car is a slowish rate on a fast charger (CCS), in the grand scheme of things it won’t adversely affect your life.
Once you realise this, the world is your oyster, and you can pick a car that suits your budget and range.
DrP
Thanks both. Seems we can tick the 80% of use thing fairly easily on those vehicles and then the debate is can we create some drive space for a third car and keep the old SMax ticking over for the heavy stuff for a few more years. 🤔
What heavy stuff?
FiT export payments are ‘deemed’, so you’re not paid for the exact amount you export. Instead, you’ll be paid for 50% of the electricity you generate’
FiTs were a government subsidy which has ended for new installations, they're not an export tariff.
I’m aware they’re no longer available, but if you’re on one it is long term, and as I explained earlier it does mean that any solar generated electricity used does not affect payments and therefore can be free for daytime car charging (when I remember to do it).
It is an export tariff! I am being paid for exporting electricity…
I know, but you called it an export tariff which was creating confusion.
I'm at the Carlisle Starbucks again. I now refer to it as the Seagull Starbucks because there is a seagull nesting on the ground next to the drive through. Electroverse reckoned that there were 10/12 free and the car thought there were only 2/12. I assumed that Electroverse would be correct but it wasn't.
Impressive lineup of cars here though, including a Taycan and an EQS. I feel poor.
Electroverse reckoned that there were 10/12 free and the car thought there were only 2/12. I assumed that Electroverse would be correct but it wasn’t.
Just checked zapmap, it agrees with your car, only 2/12 available. Electroverse app still showing 10/12 available
Just checked chargefinder and it looks like a few of the faster charging cars have left and there is 1 old ioniq and 4 other cars being fed by electricity 🤔
Unless you are doing 200 miles+, you wouldn't even need to think about going near a charger with either a Kona or a Niro.
In the real world they are good for 220-275 miles year round, unless you drive like a beller.
For all the moaning about charging speed, the EQS had to move to a different parking spot because it had finished charging before the driver finished their coffee.
5.1 miles per kWh today, the Ioniq is doing really well despite the slow charging. The auto routing is great, we drive for 2hrs and charge/eat for 30-40 mins. Or more than 2hrs now because this is the M6 and it's Friday afternoon.
A Kona is now probably a good bet, they are a little more plush inside I think.
Taking the P2 a few hours northwest today, to visit Legoland...!
Charged it to 100% last night (usually limit to 90)...
80 odd miles each way.. will be no issues, and probably the longest drive I'll be doing in months...
My point..? I guess that actually... An EV with even a 200* mile range is certainly fine for most people...
DrP
* The p2 will prob do about 240 in summer...even though it's a advertised as 290!! We've established it's not the most efficient!
We (4 of us) did Birmingham and back in the i3 on Wednesday. 182 miles and arrived home with 12% remaining. 65mph cruise control all the way.
That’s over 200 miles from 37kWh. So around 5.5m/kWh.
For all the moaning about charging speed, the EQS had to move to a different parking spot because it had finished charging before the driver finished their coffee.
What does that anecdote tell us about charging speeds ?
And how big was the coffee?
" had to move to a different parking spot because it had finished charging before the driver finished their coffee"
That's a common issue for me. It's usually just a quick splash and dash so I wait with the car, but on the rare occasions I do a significant charge on rapids it's usually not long enough to do anything useful whilst waiting - even a coffee stop normally has the car charge where I need it to be before I'm done so have to go move the car.
Maybe a future for rapids at motorways etc when EVs are genuinely mainstream is to have more than one connector per actual charger, so you can plug in, set the car for however much juice you want and come back when YOU are ready, not when the car is done.
Also improved queuing - plug the car in and head off whilst waiting for your turn, then the car starts when it's "turn" comes around.
The above would mean people spending less time waiting around in their cars (then rushing back to them) and more time inside the services. Where they are likely to spend money so I can see service station operators loving this system.
Hmmmm - now how to Patent this ?
Both the Kona and Niro use the same battery and motor as Hyundai is the parent company of Kia. Having recently got rid of a Kia Soul that i had for nearly three years the max actual range I ever got out of it was 270 miles with some to spare the least was a very cold winter run with the heating on low was 220 miles and i'm not the steadiest drivers trying eek every mile out of an EV. Pisses all over my VW id3.
What does that anecdote tell us about charging speeds ?
That the engineers at Mercedes Benz prioritised charging speed over cup holders.
We were discussing this on our trip. Ideally what you'd want is more chargers than the supply can handle, like how home broadband is organised. You can't expect people to be conscientious enough to move their cars when they finish charging, so with time you'd get to know the utilisation ratio at a given location i.e. at any time roughly 50% of chargers are idle because the cars have finished charging. Therefore if you have a 2MW supply you can install 16 250kW chargers. Or even more; if you plug in and the supply is maxed out your car enters a queue and charging starts when someone else leaves and you don't have to go and move your car.
Some Osprey chargers already kinda do this. I watched a video about load balancing on their chargers that manages the total available supply over a number of chargers whose total capacity exceeds the available supply.
The best way to deal with fully charged cars left on chargers is punitive charges if the car is not unplugged (and moved if there's video) within 5 minutes.
I believe Tesla superchargers have idle fees to discourage space hogging.
Back from a 800+ mile break in the north in our Model Y RWD, got just under 4miles/kWh based on rough maths, 4 up and loaded, with cruise set at 72mph on the motorway. Have managed to get used to the adaptive cruise and self steering, actually now quite like it in heavy traffic.
Oxford services superchargers were busy but we got a spot easily and for the 30 odd kWh I put in and the moved to an adjacent space, I got to the food court just in time to pick up the family order so a pretty seamless experience.
Our Airbnb had a 22kW charger which was great.
Planning our August family jolly to the French Alps - getting there seems no issue at all but keeping topped up when at the end of a valley system poses some time challenges with only granny charger use. I guess dropping down from height offers some regen opportunities 🙂
Any suggestions for the best European apps. Have got ZapMap, found Charge Finder and Abetterrouteplanner this morning. Also is it worth joining any subscription services (Ionity?) any RFID cards helpful or is just a case of busk it and pay via cards at any non-Tesla chargers?
Unless you are doing 200 miles+, you wouldn’t even need to think about going near a charger with either a Kona or a Niro.
Problem is we would need to be running it with a bike rack or roof box on nearly every family trip due to small boot and large dog in which case you need to knock a big lump off the range (30-50% seems to be about the going rate) so that brings it to 160 or so and maybe less if you're at Motorway pace. That means an element of public charger reliance on a fairly regular basis.
The absolute killer though for not having another vehicle is neither of them can tow anything useful. The Ioniq5 could but it's still got range issues for us while towing/roofbox using and is 2x the price. The boot also suffers from being very heavily sloped so it's not very dog friendly. It just feels a bit too compromised.
The best way to deal with fully charged cars left on chargers is punitive charges
Maybe now, but I'd prefer a future where you could park at leisure and everyone would still be able to charge.
@garagedweller I will one day get an EV and tow with it. Range would be short, but with quick charging I could put up with it to get the benefits the rest of the year. Much as I love my diesel car the thought of putting 60l of hydrocarbons in it just to burn it and spread the fumes around the place starts to feel a bit horrific.
Also is it worth joining any subscription services
I haven't looked into it as an Electroverse customer but probably not when rapids are 35p in France.
I agree that the short / medium term option of punitive charges for leaving the car when full*, combined with some form of future “just plug it and wait for your turn in the queue” would be good - I.e. the “more plugs than actual chargers” approach.
* maybe something to discourage charging all the way to full as well. Tesla don’t allow (or certainly discourage) charging past 80% when the charge station is full. I’m. It sure how to do this fairly. Making the total charge to be X £/kW + Y £/minute could work.
Probably this is there the long term “more plugs than chargers” approach wins out, as this doesn’t matter any more - you’re no longer “hogging a charger” but just drawing less charge, as as your charge speed drops it allows another person to connect and start charging.
@garagedweller I will one day get an EV and tow with it. Range would be short, but with quick charging I could put up with it to get the benefits the rest of the year. Much as I love my diesel car the thought of putting 60l of hydrocarbons in it just to burn it and spread the fumes around the place starts to feel a bit horrific.
Quite agree on the dirty diesel and that's where I hope to be in the next few years. I could live with the regular electric top ups by frequency/ distance if provision for pull through charging and higher speed charging once off the motorway network was less patchy. It's the combination of that combined with the range impact of external loads that's stopping me.
The place we've been staying in Devon this week had whole sections of the park with lodges that had a dedicated charging point for each plus chargers in a couple of other places around the park. More of this sort of thing at campsites etc would be good.
The long term answer is widespread destination charging. If there were loads of cheap to install and cheap to use 7kw chargers at workplaces, retail outlets , cinemas, train stations, anywhere where lots of people park for more than an hour at a time then the super expensive rapid charging network would only be required for the main road network to accommodate the long journey
I charge almost exclusively at work where we have 6 11kw chargers which is plenty for the 30-odd EVs in our office. I have a charger at home that Ive never used because Ive never needed to.
Workplace charging seems to be very variable in control, costing and regulation. I don’t think many employers want the administration burden of selling electricity to their staff, and I expect that a 3rd party model will emerge, where employers pay a kit rental for the hardware and software to pass the electricity cost, plus profit, onto staff.
I think free electricity is probably a taxable benefit, which again, will be a burden on payroll administration.
I think free electricity is probably a taxable benefit
It isn’t….currently.
My employer pays for it but I pay back my private mileage on a n HMRC pence per mile basis in exactly the same way that I did when I had an ICE car
+1 for destination charging being the main way forwards. Rapids are only for journeys too long for one charge. Currently for me that includes rounds trips that are too long, but if there were destination chargers in every car park, house, lamp post etc I don’t think I would ever need to fast charge.
Destination chargers are also relatively really cheap to install as they’re just a feed directly off the existing 240V network. The just need to be commoditised as the existing ones (BP Pulse, Connected Kerb, Pod Point etc) are a bit too expensive, but changing the installed volume from thousand to many tens or even hundreds of thousands should fix that one.
Destination chargers aren't enough when your destination is further away than your car's range.
“ Destination chargers aren’t enough when your destination is further away than your car’s range.”
Correct. Which is where the rapids come in.
Even then, having the destination charger means you’re using the rapids for a top up to get there and a top up to get back, rather than having to do a large charge.
Extra capacity in destination and rapid charging is a great idea but while private enterprise owns the charger network there will always be the imperative for profit. Plentiful supply of chargers Vs number of vehicles on the roads risks pushing revenues per charger down and hence return on investment down. That's potentially going to put the brakes on some investment and see less profitable routes and areas get short changed.
That needs some real political influence and potentially grants/tax breaks to make sure those areas don't get left behind.
One of the annoyances in my trip to the Netherlands earlier this year (Eftelling) was that although there were LOADS of slow chargers in the accommodation car park, which would have been PERFECT as once parked you leave the car there for days, I couldn't get them working with an app or bank card... Seemed they needed an RFID card.
This mildly scuppered plans as then needed to find a motorway rapid charger before leaving.
I think it's just an 'early issue' with EVs...
Soon they'll all have a way of just paying via a centralized app, or a tap of a bank card.
Tbh I didn't mind that it would have been 50c /kWh... But hey ho...
DrP
We were in Holland in Easter and solely used electroverse app or electroverse RFID card and that was predominantly at slow chargers in small towns where we could leave overnight and then a couple of fast chargers which are way more frequent than here. Looking at our routes in France for summer hols and seems fast chargers lot further apart
Ignore
@davy90 The Tesla auto wipers are camera based rather than sensor based.
Have you had the Spring update yet? When you press the wiper button at the end of the stalk, you now scroll up and down the left wheel/button for the wiper settings , same as you set up recently.
Because this is now a standard feature, I have set up the long press on the left wheel to save dash cam video on demand.
The Spring update has several other new functions including speed camera notification, a function that indicates your average speed in average speed motorway sections, plus increased detail on the autopilot display, which I find is a gimmick anyway.
@tenfoot, believe we're up to speed on updates but will check, the stalk button pops the wiper menu up at the bottom right of the screen, which is slightly less faff to adjust. Having spent a bit of time in the car, I do feel that some of the 'minimal design elegance' is plain old cost efficiency, which is good design when it works.. the wiper system is just a bit poo.. Otherwise very impressed with the thing..
Amusingly, having badgered EDF into finally switching our tariff over to their GoElectric tariff, the unit rates showed correctly in the App for a day or so, currently it indicates I'm paying -infinityp per kWh on peak and plain infinityp per kWh off peak!
Tesla wipers are definitely not their best feature! They do appear to have improved though, and the latest update where the button brings up the scroll wheel to change setting is an improvement.
I believe there have been rumours for a while that the AI behind it is about to get a major upgrade, which means it will probably take over the car and start off judgement day.
currently it indicates I’m paying -infinityp per kWh on peak and plain infinityp per kWh off peak!
Just make sure you leave the oven on for a few hours during peak time and don't plug the car in that night, you'll become the richest person in history with a net worth of £infinity
EDIT wait no, you'd need to turn off the main switch just before peak time and not use any power that night, otherwise it'll cancel out and you'll get zero.
That the engineers at Mercedes Benz prioritised charging speed over cup holders.
I said this about 50 pages ago and was told i was talking rubbish by at least half a dozen people.
Faster charging will benefit more people than larger batteries/longer range will.
I said it 50 pages ago, and it's based on what people actually use their cars for, rather than what they think they do, and i still stand by it.
Faster charging will benefit more people than larger batteries/longer range will.
Absolutely. Which is why I chose my car based on the charging curve first and the actual car second.
I’ve followed the principle that the car, which is a stationary object for the vast majority of it’s existence, should charge whilst parked when charging speed is pretty much irrelevant….unless you need to charge mid-journey in which case it should charge as quickly as possible.
Noticed the Merthyr Premier Inn (default choice for BPW trips) has a Geniepoint rapid now according to zapmap.
I'd still love to see the carpark flooded with slow overnight chargers but I do see the logic of what Whitbread are doing given the all-day restaurant/pubs on site too. Geniepoint charge overstay fees so hopefully anyone who needs it can get on during their stay.
home yesterday from a 4 day break in Aviemore area. Left home on Sunday (central belt) with a full battery, drove up, then lots of daily running around, and went for a top up Tue before driving back yesterday.
There are quite a few chargers in Aviemore itself, and the Tesla ones which are hidden away behind the MacDonald hotels were empty, and are open to all (with the Tesla App). A 25 min charge took it from 25% to 80% and cost £20, which got us home with 12% remaining. A full charge at home on IO costs £7, so in all, fuel cost for the trip were about £27, which is approx 1/3 of what it would have been in previous diesel car 🙂
averaged 3.6m/KW over the 450 or so miles, which was ok considering i had a bike on the back on a towbar rack for 330 of those miles, up and down the A9 etc with cruise at speed limit and ac on all the time. (BMW i4 40)