I like the look of that. I am tempted and my wifes car would be ideal to be replaced with one. We were looking very closely not so long ago. I have the EQA and it is doing amazingly for my company car. Its saving huge amounts towards fuel and i love to drive it.
But.....I didnt pay the nigh on £60k purchase price for my EQA. She loves her petrol mini cooper but an electric small car of similar or newer age is likely to be quite a premium on it. The biggest issue i had was if we wanted to sell it we would either lose a huge amount or have a very limited market to sell it to. I work in sales, i know that its a fledgling market and its being undermined by governments every few months making decisions that effect new sale but also residuals. In the end i decided not to get her one but in 3 years time, with a huge chunk of depreciation these may just stack up as a used purchase.
Meant to ask, has everyone with EV's noticed a considerable increase in range now that the weather has improved? Its been a welcome improvement.
Meant to ask, has everyone with EV's noticed a considerable increase in range now that the weather has improved? Its been a welcome improvement.
Yup..now getting just over 3miles/kWh! Which isn't great, but is good for the car with a roof rack on all the time.
RE the 500 mile journey thing - you'll be fine. Stop twice, walk the dog ina different spot and THAT charge won't even impact your journey..
Or just rent a caravelle once a year for that trip.
Range isn't really the issue people think it is!
I'm doing a trip to teh Nurburgring in a few months (yep..all planned and booked!) and that will involve a few stops on the way down, which will be a non issue as I'll stop every 3 hours anyway. Then i'll just plug into the Tesla Superchargers next to the ring for a bit, whilst looking at the museum etc etc!
DrP
In the end i decided not to get her one but in 3 years time, with a huge chunk of depreciation these may just stack up as a used purchase.
That's basically where I got to with the R5 too after checking one out at the dealer. It's a lovely car but I couldn't make the new price work. In a couple of years when my wife's little Ignis needs replacing and you can pick up second hand versions for well under £20k this may well be back on the list. But if you can make the numbers work then it's undoubtedly a lovely thing and it's possible that the loony in the white-house messes things up enough that used car prices skyrocket again like they did after Covid anyway. So maybe you'll be able to sell it for a profit 😀
I don’t notice too much if I am (I guess I am) as most of my driving is short trips and I only plug the car in every few days to take it from 40/50% to 80%. The whole range thing, while it was a concern buying the car, is not something I bother about now. I did my usual, occasional, 400km round trip last week and did my usual pee/charge break up and down, didn’t compare it to the last time I did it in jan/feb. But I was not really someone who paid much attention to mpg when I was driving an ICE either.
Again, keeping my old car running just feels as though it should be better for the environment.
You can solve that problem by waiting until you would've replaced your car anyway, and then buy a used EV.
a lot of my petrol cost is tax and the government will need to get that back off me somehow
Not off you. Off someone, or something. They will want to incentivise EVs as much as possible for emissions reasons, yes, but also because they are trying to get on the EV manufacturing train and for energy security reasons. So the tax will fall elsewhere probably.
There is the environmental argument as well. Instinctively I find it hard to believe that the problems caused by over-consumption can be mitigated by buying more stuff.
You will need a new car eventually. When you do buy one, get electric. Remember that most of the time you aren't scrapping your old car, you're passing it on to someone else. The way to look at it is that there is a supply of new cars coming in, and a supply of old cars coming out of the national fleet. If you buy a new car, that results in an old one being pushed out of the other end (sort of - there is probably a lot of elasticity in demand at the lower end). If you buy a used one, you are taking it off the market - so either ultimately (at the end of the chain) someone will repair their old car instead of binning it, or someone else will go new instead of used. It's hard to tell which. However, if you buy a used EV then that either forces someone who wants an EV to buy newer, or it forces them to buy ICE. Since EV manufacturers slowed down their plans, that suggests if you buy the EV then someone else would be buying an ICE instead.
Really, unless you're a high mileage user it all comes down to whether or not you want a new car or were going to get one anyway. My diesel does pretty low miles, and whilst I want to change it my daughter pointed out that if I were to sell it it would most likely go to someone who would drive more miles in it and therefore the car itself would produce more pollution. The next EV off the production line should go to a higher mileage driver than me.
The other thing is that the tax break for new EVs is skewing the market. They are selling at higher prices to corporate lease customers because the monthly salary sacrifice is a lot lower along with the fuel costs. So buying your own new one is a mug's game since you can't take advantage of it. So.. I forgot where I was going with that argument.
In a couple of years when my wife's little Ignis needs replacing and you can pick up second hand versions for well under £20k
Used Ioniq Electrics are amazing bargains currently for far less than that.
Not off you. Off someone, or something. They will want to incentivise EVs as much as possible for emissions reasons, yes, but also because they are trying to get on the EV manufacturing train and for energy security reasons. So the tax will fall elsewhere probably.
So that's why they have increased the VED on EVs from 0 to £190 and retrospectively applied it back to cars registered years ago (something they have NEVER done with a VED change before) then added EVs into the 40k luxury car tax bracket........My colleague runs a 66 reg pre adblue diesal Kia that get taxed at £30!!!
Don't look for logic in the VED system but you can bet EVs are right in the firing line
I've run the numbers and for my 20k miles per year I could currently save around £2,500 a year in fuel costs if I were able to do most of my charging on a cheap (7p) overnight tariff.
Remember to include maintenance costs too. Even with the silly 10k service intervals on my Ioniq, the amount spent on servicing has been quite reasonable over the 80k miles I've done so far. Last service was a 'big' one at around £500, but that was similar to my mums petrol A1 normal service.
No cam belts or chains to replace. Pads and discs are still original with lots of meat on. DId have to clean up the rear brakes though as they dont really get enough use (hence why some have drums).
So that's why they have increased the VED on EVs from 0 to £190
Thats nowhere near as much as they were getting from us in fuel.
Drove a 140 miles today in my ID3, mostly up and down on the A3 with some city driving and country lanes. Achieved 4.5m/kwh so even though it is not actually that warm, range is definitely going up. I wonder if it is also connected to a SW update I have recently done?
Not many details other than the amount of time that the fire service remained at the scene, 14.5hrs.
Yet at another EV fire that has been discussed on the forum the fire service left after a few hours.
Not a great advertisement for potential ev buyers so hopefully the investigations are detailed enough to quell any myths about EV and battery safety.
I'd be surprised if anyone considering an EV decided not to because they spontaneously catch fire all the time, as it doesn't take much research to come to the conclusion that's simply not true
Probably another half dozen ICE fires across the country while they were on scene putting that one out.
I'm pro EV and I don't consider the potential fire issues to be a deal breaker. I think the negative press is a problem though.
Another EV fire took place in Spain recently, near Madrid where a driver crashed his Porsche EV in an underground carpark and the battery went up (probably along with other parked cars). 2 firefighters died during the response.
Whilst these events are rare I wonder if carparks and ferries will impose restrictions on EVs in the future?
I'm pro EV and I don't consider the potential fire issues to be a deal breaker. I think the negative press is a problem though.
Another EV fire took place in Spain recently, near Madrid where a driver crashed his Porsche EV in an underground carpark and the battery went up (probably along with other parked cars). 2 firefighters died during the response.
Whilst these events are rare I wonder if carparks and ferries will impose restrictions on EVs in the future?
Yep, similar.
I think the main problem with EV fires isn't so much the frequency, but the difficulty in managing them, e.g. my cursory Google turns up this list of observations https://www.evfiresafe.com/post/ev-fire-incident-management-case-study-from-prague . As far as I'm aware ultimately (if possible) the vehicles have to be fully enclosed/immersed and left to cool down/burn out. Quite different to your standard vehicle fire.
You are right @retrorick that it is the perception that is the issue. Human beings are pretty rubbish at dealing with risk. That's why I'm still scared getting on a plane 😀
Cars have always caught fire. Every Hollywood car chase used to end with a fireball. Faulty or damaged electrics can lead to fires. That's why some folk wont run the washing machine overnight. So, of course there is a risk of EV fires and it's easy for anybody who is anti-EV for any reason to jump on the cases that do happen and try to whip up more anti-EV sentiment. But as the number of EVs in your town, work car park etc increases and people walk past these day after day and month after month they will start to realise that the risk is small enough that it can be placed alongside all the other small risks that we ignore every day.
I am slightly concerned about an EV fire breaking out on a ferry or the tunnel - yes, its less likely to happen than an ICE fire but if it did it would be a disaster surely? If it ever did happen then I can see EVs being banned from cross channel travel or at least charged a lot more. That would be a massive issue for us as we use the tunnel 3 or 4 times a year.
There's been a lot of talk about alternative battery chemistry for a long time now that solve a lot of problems for EVs - more energy density so potentially either lighter cars or greater ranges and hopefully less problematic from a fire perspective - with a huge amount of R&D.....you would think/hope we're close to that becoming a production reality in the not too distant future
Sodium batteries I think have less flammability when damaged but a lower energy density at the moment. BYD are using them in their smaller cars.
I think In India there is a programme of swapping out lithium ion scooter batteries with newer tech lead acid batteries which are less prone to combustion.
This is a link to the YouTube ev fire site I occasionally watch.
https://youtube.com/@stachedtraining?si=DFYgNfiC0rKRIfQh
Has everyone else on Octopus Intelligent Go been offered the chance to move to a 12 month fixed rate?
Current price is 28.96p/kWh during the day, offer is to fix for 12 months at slightly lower day rate of 27.88p/kWh. Night rate is 7p/kWh on both. Seems like a no-brainer to fix for 12 months, or is there really the possibility of rates falling over the year?
There was also a new option to pay a fixed add-on of £20 a month for all-you-can-eat night time charging. I'm not tempted by that as I do 90% of my charging for free at work.
The biggest new hope for batteries is solid-state batteries. The issue with lithium isn't the lithium itself, necessarily, it's the organic liquid electrolytes they use which are highly flammable. Solid state batteries have some sort of ceramic matrix instead which not only doesn't burn, but it means that you don't need a separator layer between the electrodes and you can therefore pack more charge carrying material into the same battery pack.
Has everyone else on Octopus Intelligent Go been offered the chance to move to a 12 month fixed rate?
Had the e-mail last night but when we tried to switch it said we don't qualify for the offer!
There was also a new option to pay a fixed add-on of £20 a month for all-you-can-eat night time charging
Have put my name down for this, but there's only 8888 people at sign up so not sure if I'll get it. Do all charging at home so £20pm for essentially unlimited petrol sounds ideal.
Seems like a no-brainer to fix for 12 months, or is there really the possibility of rates falling over the year?
1/ If you look at the trend graphs, and ignoring the high rates in 22/23 which were due to other factors and the gov underpinned us during, the price tends to drop in summer and increase in winter. So I think there's a fair chance it'll go down in the next cap and then up again next winter. Of course, we tend to use more in winter so the surety against that increase in the winter vs the possibly smaller amount you'd lose thru summer is your call.
2/ ML suggests similar in his latest forecast https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/utilities/energy-price-cap-prediction/
3/ Cynically, if they're offering you to fix at a lower price that indicates that prices will decrease by more than their offer.....they're not a charity and have people being paid to do these calcs.
And for me the bulk of my usage (kWh rather than cost) is in overnight EV charging which doesn't change so effect on my bill of this fixed decrease would be about £3/mo against current cost, so I'm waiting to see if other offers come in the summer.
I don't know how accurate ABRP is, but they claim to have a database of different cars so I thought I'd do some virtual testing of my 500 mile edge case. The results were a little surprising and make me question my assumption that I "need" a longer range car.
According to Google maps it should take around 9 hours of actual driving to do that journey. Sounds about right. We did once do it under 10 hours, but that was back before we had kids or dogs when we would just stop for fuel, snacks (to eat in the car) and the odd toilet break. These days 11 hours would be a good run and 12 is the average. Maybe 13 on a slow run. So it looks as though we are actually stopped for between 2 and 4 hours, which is more than I thought to be honest.
I've been looking at the Renault Scenic. It is a bigger car than I want day-to-day but I feel I need that 350+ mile range for these odd long trips. According to ABRP I would need to stop 3 times in a Scenic for a total charge time of one hour. The stops it suggests are pretty close to where we would stop anyway (for twice as long as it suggests) so the car really wouldn't be an issue.
I also tried the Renault 5 as a car that I'd much prefer driving for most of the year but which clearly isn't up to doing a long trip like that. ABRP suggested that I'd need 4 stops with a total charge time of 1:30. OK we'd have to change our routine a bit and go for more but shorter stops than we usually do. But the total charge time is still well below the time that we are usually stopped for anyway and in theory it would still be possible to do the journey in the same overall time.
I guess all of this relies on actually being able to get on a charger when and where it suggests so the longer range car would still be less stressful and give more options.
The me from 20 years ago who would drive 500 miles in a day with very few stops and just live off coffee and snacks in the car probably would need the longer range car, but maybe the me from now doesn't.
What is your 500 mile journey and when will you be doing it, Roverpig? On a school holiday weekend you can expect 500miles to be a right royal pain in the arse especially if you are heading the same way as everyone else. However most of the time most journeys go just fine.
I find the app journey calculators run the battery too low for comfort and do my own planning. Running down to 10-15% when there isn't another charge point within range with that charge isn't sensible. It only takes rain/a headwind/Madame turning on the heater for 10% to become 3%
I've got a Zoé with similar range to the Renault 5. 5 stops for 500miles on motorways IME unless you drive at truck speed when it becomes 3 or 4. So I drive at truck speed. 🙂
What is your 500 mile journey and when will you be doing it,
I think you've found the flaw in my calculations 😀
My "edge case" is the trip from Aberdeenshire to Norfolk that we do at Christmas (i.e. winter conditions and busiest time of year). An EV that can cope with that trip is going to be able to cope with anything I would want.
I've been thinking that I "need" a car with a WLTP range of over 350 miles to stop that journey from being a total pain. I guess what surprised me is that a shorter range (250 miles WLTP) car only actually requires one extra stop and an extra half an hour of charging time, which isn't that big a deal on a trip I only do a few times a year. But if it's two extra stops in reality and each one involves a fight (or at least a long queue) for a charger then that could get annoying.
If I actually wanted to drive a big car it wouldn't really be an issue, but I much prefer smaller cars most of the time. My ideal car is basically something around the size of a Suzuki Swift with a decent stereo, wipe clean seats, rock-solid Car Play connectivity and bomb-proof reliability. Reliable adaptive cruise control with lane keeping on the motorway and a 360 degree camera system would be nice too if Santa is listening, but pretty much everything else is gravy.
Dropping the range criteria down a bit also brings in lots of older and cheaper cars and since I don't really care much about cars that's quite appealing too.
So, on the one hand I don't want to spend thousands more on a car that is bigger than I want just to get the range. But at the same time I don't want to spend what is still a decent wedge on a shorter range car only to find that it's a pain and I regret not spending a few grand more on something that is actually up to the job. Especially is smaller cars with longer range are just around the corner.
Like lots of people contemplating a switch from ICE to EV, I feel that I need a car than can do 300 miles between refuelling stops (and then refuel quickly) as that's what I used to. So I'm thinking that battery technology isn't quite there yet. But I'm starting to question that view. I wonder whether battery technology is fine and what we really need is for prices of existing 250 mile WLTP range cars to drop below the equivalent ICE car and for the charging infrastructure to improve to the point where finding a charger stops being an issue. At that point I think people might start to realise that there isn't actually any point paying a premium for a car that could travel further. But it's all just conjecture until I actually pull the trigger and try living with an EV myself, which is why it is great to hear the experiences of people who have lived with these cars for a while.
If I had your "edge trip" to do I'd do it between 7pm and 8am. Have a look at the Tesla app which has little graphs to show charger use over the day. It's pretty obvious when you should avoid trying to charge on busy days. Sometimes a route change that adds very little distance will take you past a low demand charge point. South of Berlin for example.
OK, seriously speaking 350 miles is 500km, and I've done a lot of 500km trips in EV's. Some it's hard, modern cars it's not, and I'll likely do one in the next few days. My plan is to set off, drive 300km, and recharge it while I eat, then finish
If your expectation level is that it needs to do 350 miles and be small , or it's a failure you're looking forward to a life of disappointment, and if you're only doing that trip once a year (I'm not) then you might want to have a think about that.
I did 200 miles in my 40kwh ioniq (my20) the other day. Started full with around 190 miles expected range. Motorway driving for 33% of the trip, hilly A roads for 33% and flat A roads for the rest. Cool temperatures and wet for 50% of the trip.
I charged for 20 minutes and added 12kw (slow ioniq charging speed) and arrived home with 35 miles off range after a reasonably quick final motorway sprint (knowing I wasn't going to run out of battery).
Would I like a 50kw battery in the ioniq? Yes, so I could store more cheap power in it. If there was extra battery size and it cost a few thousand quid more for that version (there isn't) would i buy it for at the increased interest cost? Probably not.
It's easy enough to plan trips where stopping around every 125 miles isn't a problem for me.
I managed the nc500 last September in the ioniq (1600 miles total) with no major issues even with the sparse infrastructure along the Scottish coastline. Saw a few other EVs , mainly at the Tesla chargers.
Thanks for the real world reports folks. Very helpful.
Re the 500 mile trip - if it was me I'd just plug it into a fast charger each time I stopped to pee or for a leg stretch, which would be around every 2.5-3 hrs (ish) - in the 15 mins it takes to walk across the carpark, into services, pee and walk back again is enough for a decent addition. And assuming you're stopping for an actual proper break / meal (30 mins?) at some point during this 10 hr+ drive just plug it in then, that would be enough to get most cars back from 20-80% ish, so looking at 2 x 15 min "quick" stops and one 30 min stop. With sufficient forward planning that you're targeting chargers with plenty of availability the journey should be quite stress free and not really any longer than in an ICE. Oh - just to add, target these charge stops for when the battery charges fastest - in most cars that's in the 10-50% ish range - a 15 min charge starting from 10% will get you a lot of range very quickly, whereas at higher %ges it's pretty slow, so don't bother trying to get it back to 100% unless you happen to be stopped anywy.
I’ve done a couple of 400 mile trips and as above, use the satnav and onboard tech to let the car direct you to regular food/comfort break 15 min stops every couple of hours and it stays topped up between 20 and 50% pretty much throughout.
Planning a trip to Rutland Water and noticed that the Normanton Car Park map indicates they have EV charge points but can't find any details about the. Has anyone got any info about them ?
I'm loving the EV concept...but I think I'm now very bored with driving.
I've found my driving is now a bit slower and as such, journeys take longer and I'm bored. Been many years since I enjoyed a drive drive, but I normally happily jump in the car and drive where I need to go.
Nowadays, I get in and go, but I'm bored by halfway through the journey as I'm driving slower and watching the battery charge drop.
I'm driving a bit slower to eek out battery, but driving is now incredibly boring, so whilst completely sold on the EV concept, my own take on it is turning it boring!
A positive - my annual mileage is down slightly so I'm not driving as much as I was.
I know cars are different but unless it's the last charge before home I charge to at least 85% at which point it's still taking 60% of its max charge rate and usually 90% charge when it's still taking 50% of max charge rate. That's nearly double the range compared with 10-50%. The extra time charging is under 15 minutes. Now consider how long it takes to go off route to the charger, find the thing, plug in and start it etc. at best, and queue up or find the charger won't start at worst. If I were trying to optimise time I'd probably stop around 80%, but stopping at 50% charge when it's still taking over 80% of max charge rate makes no sense.
Some cars reach their peak charge rates at quite high levels of charge, notably the Mini Cooper 2020 at 75% and BMW i3 2020 at 85%. In both of those charging to 85% is the most time efficient.
........ Ignore
Edukators post on considering how / when to charge especially when compared to mine is a great example of the thought process needed when planning trips on an EV. Each person will end up with a different approach depending on their specific cars range and charge.characteristics, their type of journeys and preferences. A key thing he said was "unless it's my last charge before home" - for me it is vanishingly rare to do more than one charge on any journey (maybe once a year on summer holiday?) so for me it is almost always "the last charge before home", - so don't copy exactly what anyone says, but work it out for yourself following that thought process.
Lots of interesting and useful input above there.
The difference in mentality between EV and ICE (with regards to 'filling up') is akin to what @whatgoesup posts - jsut top up whenever you stop..
We did a trip from Hove to the Netherlands.. 320 miless, with Le Shuttle. Leave home with 100%. Plug in at le Shuttle whilst waiting to be called...add 20% or so.. plug in after a few hours to pee and eat..add 40% or so..then arrive at the destination with 15% or so, and plug in there (and leave car in car park, charging on slow charger, but it DOESN'T MATTER, because we don't use the car for a week anyway!)
This is in a polestar 2 with about 240miles of range
DrP
Hopefully one day this will be the norm for EV's
https://www.independent.co.uk/tech/byd-battery-charge-tesla-b2731603.html
Hopefully one day this will be the norm for EV's
As far as the car is concerned, maybe, but you need some serious infrastructure to make it work. And how many millions would it cost to upgrade everything just to save people the occasional ten or fifteen minutes?
Exactly my thoughts - the biggest gains will come from things like improving availability of affordable overnight charging for those without off street parking, slow charging wherever people spend time (tourist attractions, restaurants, hotels etc) and filling in the places where infrastructure is weak eg mid Wales. That'll do for 99% of journeys leaving outliers like weekly commuters who drive from Aberdeen to Zurich nonstop while towing a caravan.
The on-street charging is a much bigger problem you're right. Mid Wales is a harder problem to solve though - I think the reason there are no chargers there is that there's not enough electricity supply, so it might need new grid cabling. That would get expensive.
Re caravan towing - honestly that would be a cinch if they just put in pull-through charging bays at motorway services. Most cars have enough charge to get off the motorway network to the caravan site even when towing. Then when you get to your site you can run out for a charge afterwards. Of course it's not that convenient to stop every 150 miles but caravan towing isn't convenient anyway so that would probably be ok.
Given the output of theWest Wales hydro stations I used to monitor there's enough grid to get lots of leccy in or out, Molgrips. A few car chargers are insignificant. Wales produces about twice the electricity it consumes and demand has fallen in line with UK demand since 2007. Demand is down about 25% since then mainly due to the reduction in lighting consumption. The grid currently has plenty of capacity for EV charging and heat pumps
The difference in mentality between EV and ICE (with regards to 'filling up') is akin to what @whatgoesup posts - just top up whenever you stop..
That does require being able to get onto a charger whenever and wherever you stop though.
Cars like that BYD show that manufacturers still think that they need to produce cars that can travel as far between refuelling stops as ICE cars and refuel almost as quickly in order to tempt people out of their gas guzzlers and I'm sure they know their market.
I do wonder whether that's just a temporary thing though and if/when the infrastructure improves to the point where getting on a charger stops being an issue we might see a shift in mentality.
I'm guessing that few people would be prepared to pay the premium to buy an iphone that lasts twice as long as that's just not a feature that most people need. In fact, I have no idea how long the battery lasts in my iphone. I plug it in when I get in the car (to use CarPlay) and I stick it on a charger overnight. All I know is that it never runs out of charge so whatever the battery life might be is irrelevant as it is long enough. If you could plug an EV in whenever you stopped then I expect most people would soon realise that they don't actually need that much range and the focus would probably shift to something else. But for now, range seems to be the number one issue for most people contemplating a move to an EV.
@Edukator - isn't that the transmission grid (overhead high voltage lines to take it from generating sites to around the UK) you're talking about though rather than the in the road grid to enable 100-250kw ultra rapid chargers? That last point has always been what I have read is the issue with getting more put into rural wales.
So site them near transformers just like IECharge do in France. They're usually a few minutes off route but at 25cents people are prepared to go out of their way as posts on this thread demonstrate.
Given the economies in streetlighting in recent years adding a 7kW type 2 or even a 25kW CCS is possible in just about any village that has street lighting. I've used 25kW CCS in France, clearly limited to the power available at the site.
Given the output of theWest Wales hydro stations I used to monitor there's enough grid to get lots of leccy in or out, Molgrips
Yeah that's West Wales, all the infrastructure is about getting to and from England - rail, road and electricity; and historically minerals and things heading to or from Ireland. Same is true in North Wales. That's why you have two main communication channels in the far North and far South of the country, and very little joining the two together. There are positives and negatives to this, of course. This map shows what I mean - see the big gap in Mid Wales:
Almost every map you can draw of Wales looks the same. And it's debatable whether or not this will ever change - you'd need millions spent on upgrading the network just to serve people (like me) who want to drive up the centre of the country. There aren't many of us so the money is clearly better spent elsewhere. From my point of view I love driving to North Wales on the A470 but it's about the same distance and time to go via Shrewsbury on a route that passes many more chargers. It'd be a different story for people going from West Wales to North Wales, for sure, but they'd end up going through Aberystwyth probably anyway where there are chargers. So it's a questionable business case. Perhaps they could put in a battery storage site with chargers near Rhaeadr fed by some turbines and solar - that would help.
Interestingly - the dead spot on that map extends into Herefordshire, and Hereford severely lacks EV chargers as well. Shrewsbury seems to be covered though and the A5 towards North Wales, and there are chargers along that route including a lovely 8-charger hub near Corwen. So clearly the proximity to the grid backbone has an effect. Probably on more than just EV chargers though as I expect it affects industrial demand as well which would also affect residential demand and end up becoming self-fulfilling. As most infrastructure, really.
Some of you have very weak bladders and seem to love dawdling around service stations! - Whenever I have a long journey which seems to be all the flippin time at the moment unfortunately, I just get in and don't stop till I get there or need fuel....I absolutely hate stopping enroute. About 4 times a year we drive to the north of Holland from the tunnel (about 300 miles each way not including the 80 miles on the UK side) and as I can do door to door with one tank we rarely stop unless we have a specific reason. Same goes for UK trips.I know I'll have to modify my behaviour but its annoying no matter how many EV evangelists tell me it isn't!
I think I would be fine with regular ev charge stops. I break long journeys down to 2hr legs anyway. Can't go more than that without getting out and running about a bit. Can't be good to slog it out for the length of a tank (550 miles for me) sat in one position.
Some of you have very weak bladders and seem to love dawdling around service stations! -
It's not just about needing a pee - HSE recommend a break after 2 hours of driving because your attention and reactions start to deteriorate beyond that. 300 miles will likely be closer to 5 hours and you certainly won't be driving the same when you finish as when you started. One or two short stops to reset would make the trip safer for you, your passengers and other road users.
I understand what you are saying @winston and go back ten years and that would be me too. I used to think nothing of driving across the country with barely a stop. But these days I tend to stop a bit more. Not the bladder really, just don't enjoy driving as much. @DickBarton mentioned that an EV had made driving boring. For me it's no the EV, just age. I used to drive around on the edge much more than I do these days. Now I'm happy to just waft along and prioritize comfort and a good audio system over performance that I'll never use. Maybe age has brought a bit of wisdom. Maybe I've just got boring. Probably a bit of both.
.I know I'll have to modify my behaviour but its annoying no matter how many EV evangelists tell me it isn't!
Why? Just stick with ICE if it works for yo. I really don't think anybody is going to force you into an EV until there are EVs that can do what you want. Just look at the recent watering down of the ZEV mandate.
Just stick with ICE if it works for you
But no - there is more to this than our personal preferences. The decisions we make have consequences.
I don't think I'll be going back to ice...I'm very much sold on the idea of EV.
I'm just finding it boring...I tend to view driving now as just a means to get me where I need to be to do something. I've clearly no patience and the driving isn't what I'm going to do. I think as my car journeys are now taking longer (depending distance, not by a lot of by a while) I'm getting bored as it means doing my thing doesn't start as it soon as it used to.
I reckon Builth Wells would be a good place for a charging station. Population 2 500 so there will enough surplus power available on local transformers.
Yes - the WG want there to be strong links between North and South, and the road that links them is the A470. You'd ideally want them at Builth and Dolgellau. There are (thankfully) now two at Dolgellau, but that's not enough. As discussed before two banks of 8 or more is far more useful than eight sets of two.
But for now, range seems to be the number one issue for most people contemplating a move to an EV.
The issue for me isn’t range but the availability of chargers at peak time. I specifically bought a Polestar long range to reduce how often I needed to charge away from home for those outlier journeys. Mostly my trips are 2 x week to office 75 miles each way mostly motorway. Free charging at work so saving a chunk of change and I’ve got home charging for rest of the week. Almost perfect use case right?
If I only had 150 mile range that puts me on the edge of range and if I want to drive to Cornwall on an August Bank holiday the nervousness would be around availability of charges not being occupied. That’s not range anxiety but a convenience one.
I’d be saying the same if I had an ICE car with a very small petrol tank BTW.
There will be a lot of EVs doing 50mph on the way down to Cornwall so they don't have to charge on route next August bank holiday. 😉 That's tongue in cheek but I've sometimes driven to the coast on the route nationale because the car does the return trip without a charge. If I take the autoroute I know it's going to be a pain charging on busy days.
Weird, huh?
I take your point and it is a good one but I've had a fair few conversations (online and in-person) with EV owners now and there are some who will say that if they had their time again they would buy a car with a longer range. Usually that turns out to be down to a specific journey that they make where charging is an issue. So, gain, it might be the infrastructure that is the issue rather than the range itself, but the two are quite closely linked.
Leaf owners…
How do you get on with your CHAdeMO sockets? Are there less charging options?
I’ve talked my mum in to at least taking a test drive in an EV to replace an aging Kuga.
I think the Leaf looks a good option then realised it still uses CHAdeMO.
Issue or not?
Anecdotal , but we drove to cornwall (fowey) from manchester on a weekend last august , admittedly it wasnt a bank holiday, but there was no problem with charger availability on the way down or back.
Actually , thats not quite true , at exeter (my planned 2nd stop) all chargers were full, so we drove past those and charged a bit further along the route at a different bank of chargers that had plenty spare.
Once we got to fowey with 20% battery left we plugged into one of the slow chargers in the public car park (again no issue with availability) and charged it back up to 100% for the next morning.
Let me guess, the open to the public superchargers at Exerter were full but the Tesla exclusive ones had plenty spare. Superchargers are one of the Musk/US services I'm not prepared to boycott, it would be too painful.
Let me guess, the open to the public superchargers at Exerter were full but the Tesla exclusive ones had plenty spare. Superchargers are one of the Musk/US services I'm not prepared to boycott, it would be too painful.
No they were all full including the tesla chargers.
We carried on to an open to all tesla charging station about 30 miles further up the road that were pretty much empty.
I guess this is as good a place to ask, currently have a Golf PHEV on order. basically for my use case I can run it as an electric most of the time, but for longer trips I have options.
Just considering the EV side of it, ideal world I guess it makes sense to get a charging point for the house, if only because I'll end up with a full ev one day.. But how realistic is running it off a 3pin plug as an interim solution?
Looks like that's about 20kwh battery so the 3 pin charger would top that up from flat overnight, but it'd be sensible to make sure the socket and wiring are up to that sort of sustained load. A dedicated charger probably wouldn't save you time so it's a big spend for dubious benefit. In fact you might be able to configure IOG for the car and get 7p/kw for the whole time the car is on the granny charger.
I think Intelligent Octopus Go supports VW cars directly, which means you don't need a smart charger and you should be able to get it on the granny charger. Octopus have a calculator on their website that tells you what tariff you can have with what sort of car and charger you are using.
You should probably replace your socket with an 'EV compatible' one - these are a drop-in replacement and pretty cheap, but they are rated for continuous high load.
You should probably replace your socket
And check wiring...
Check what the maximum charge rate for the car is too. Depending on what model year/version i'm seeing either 3.6kW, 11kW or 40kW DC...
If it's 3.6 a slightly upgraded granny socket will be all you need/can use. If it's 40kW DC, there's not a domestic charger that will even do that! My PHEV is rated at 6.7kW AC, so it was worth buying some extra charging kit!
After a good few months with an electric car I have decided to go back to diesel! (partly).
I like an electric motor, it's great in a car. However working in remote areas of Scotland it just isn't viable for now. The public charging network has a long way to go, and it's disappointing to see how poor it is considering how long it has been touted as the next big thing in cars. Over the past year we found public chargers to be unreliable, often occupied by regular cars who just don't give a crap where they park, and sited in areas not on the common routes.
I'm sure in the cities it will be much better, and as a city car electric will be really good I am sure.
For the moment, living and working in remote areas it's just a massive pain in the arse. For those who say 'just stop and charge on your way home, no thanks. After a long shift the last thing I want to be doing is adding more time to my day, which over the course of a year really adds up.
And for those who say just get a long range battery, I looked at these and the price for that is mental.
When manufacturers have developed it to the point where you can buy a sensible priced car with a real world range of 400+ miles this is when I'll seriously look at it again.
So back to Volvo diesel for the next few years. This is the workhorse, fill it up and go and know it'll do hundreds of miles easily. And it's comfy haha!
And I say going back partly because now I'm looking at the smaller electric cars which we can use for the short trips and not have to worry about the range and charging. Renault 5 looks tempting as a small fun thing...
But how realistic is running it off a 3pin plug as an interim solution?
I charge my ioniq on a 3 pin. 10amp/2.2kw into the car. I usually only charge for a few hours at a time (whilst the agile prices are cheap) and rarely nightly as I don't do many miles daily.
Timed via a tapo smart plug.
This is my interim solution until I have a house rewire at which point the cost of installing a permanent charger will pale into insignificance!
Thanks for sharing your experiences @Zedsdead. Very interesting.
I’ve had similar discussions with a friend from rural Aberdeenshire who has been driving an EV with a claimed range around 340 miles (so around 250 in reality) for the past 4 years. He has just about made it work but his advice to me was that I might consider waiting a few years until solid state batteries make cars with a range of 600 miles a reality.
I’m skeptical. Leaving aside the question of how long it will really take for that technology to become affordable. I find it hard to believe that I really need that sort of range. A car with a 600 mile range will always be more expensive, bigger, heavier and less efficient than one with a range of, say, 250 miles. I never drive more than 200 miles without a break (usually a fair bit less). So surely what I need is better charging infrastructure not a super long range car. But unlike him (and you) I’ve not actually tried it in practice.
To be fair, he (like me) enjoys driving to remote places to run up and down mountains. I doubt we’ll ever see charge ports in every trailhead in Scotland I can see that it is a pain having to stop for a charge after a long day in the hills.
But how realistic is running it off a 3pin plug as an interim solution
I have a MG ZS EV (70kwh or something - the bigger battery) - initially I was going to get a charger, but then I did the maths and realised it would take a long time to pay for itself. I had my garage rewired when I moved in and specced with big cables (wood working tools), but even so the granny charger is never actually 3.6kw - they are normally limited to 3kw. Most of the time we do relatively few miles and the granny charger is more than sufficient to top it up - since we have had the car (a year) it has been charged once on a non granny charger (and that was my wife who wanted to try it out rather than because we had to). We just plug it in every night (on whatever the octopus tarrif is for EVs that doesn't need a dedicated charger) - if we do a long journey it'll drop to 20% or whatever, but then over the next couple of days it gets back up to 80%. It's fine (I guess the caveat is that I do have a diesel tourneo for zooming across france in!).
That's a long way of saying - assuming your wiring isn't terrible, I would use a granny charger and save myself a grand.
Whilst chargers are being discussed (they’re not really chargers are they, just sockets in an expensive box…) what’s the most cost effective way of getting one at the moment?
It’s for my mum, she’s doesn’t have a smart meter yet so are there any good offers on from the elec companies at the moment?
She may be another case where a granny charger would do the job, but depends what the options are currently.
Mine cost me £105 but that was 5 years ago now…
Thanks for the comments, might just save the money and stick to 3pin.
I can see that it is a pain having to stop for a charge after a long day in the hills.
That is the easiest thing to change. Just sit back and relax for half an hour - if this is a problem then it's probably an attitude thing 🙂 And yes I have had to do this.