So now I have an EV – what do I need to know about charging on the go (sorry if has been covered, but there are lots of posts to wade through). I am travelling to the Peak District from Yorkshire on Monday and I want to charge at the destination as I will then be spending a few days in the Peaks and won't have lots of time to recharge.
My question is – if I go to a Sainsbury's (or similar) can I just drive up, swipe my bank card and charge? Or should I be prepared with an account with someone like Shell Recharge or whatever? Can I recharge at Tesla stations (it isn't a Tesla) – I have read before that *some* Tesla points will charge non-Teslas but other don't! I remain very confused about the options on offer.
Edit: And can anyone recommend a good Apple app with charging locations?
>You normally connect the EV charger to the incoming power at the meter box, not through the consumer unit.
Totally wrong I’m afraid , that’s just lazy installers not wanting to go into the main consumer unit, or finding it full.
In fact it breaks DNO and government rules to fit none supply equipment in the meter box, the official line is:
“If a DNO or MOP attends the premises to carry out work on their equipment and insufficient space is available within the meter enclosure, work will not be able to proceed. The customer will need to organise (at their expense) the removal of unrelated equipment to create the space needed for the work to be carried out.
NICEIC strongly recommends that electrical contractors do not install any other equipment within meter enclosures.”
Glad to hear that!
Connection directly at the meter would make my install a bit more awkward. I'm taking the EV plunge with collection tomorrow, and Octopus should be fitting a new smart meter in a few weeks time.
ZapMap has come up a lot in my investigations. Seems to also tell you the cost, payment methods of the charger and also if it's available or not. Haven't used it in anger yet but have been 'using' it on the odd journey to get familiar with it for when we get the EV.
GridServe seem to be the provider for a lot of service stations, so that's probably a good one to have.
Ahh thank you – that looks a very useful app.
I'm not a charging on the go expert, only ever done it a couple of times, but if you are an Octopus customer at home it's probably worth getting an Electroverse card as you get a discount on lots of chargers.
I know some people have questioned how the national grid would cope with a mass uptake of EVs so I was interested to read a RTE article that data centres pose a much bigger draw on power here in Ireland.
“Irish data centres now store the data for a large portion of the population of Europe, many times greater than that of Ireland. Over 20% of the electricity in Ireland is now consumed by data centres and this is increasing. Some will argue that these are a necessary part of the tech economy, but others view these as electricity-and-water gobbling Frankensteins. The high demand raises the overall price of electricity for all consumers, not just electric car drivers.
Let’s do some quick calculations on the impacts of electric cars versus data centres. There are currently about 125,000 EVs on the road in Ireland. Assuming that the typical EV drives 15,000 kilometres per year and consumes 0.2 kWh (kilowatt-hours) of electricity per kilometre, how much electricity do EVs consume annually compared to data centres?
125,000 EVs doing 15,000 km a year results in 1,875 million km gross annually requiring 375 million kWh of charging electricity. That 375 million kWh for EVs in 2024 is about only 3 weeks (or 6%) worth of the electricity consumed by data centres in the past 52 weeks, which was about 6,500 million kWh.
If every one of the 2.5 millions cars in Ireland went electric, this would require about 7,500 million kWh of charging electricity, marginally greater than the electricity consumption of about 6,500 million kWh by data centres last year. Even if every car sold from tomorrow onwards was electric, it’s going to take decades for EVs to consume more electricity than data centres. Indeed, such an outcome might never happen unless there is a major crisis or a major technology shift. Our embrace of AI will further increase the energy requirements for data centres, with co-located nuclear power stations being discussed internationally as a solution to powering data centres.”
In England you can generally just drive up, plug in, wave something contactless, and you're charging. There can be better deals through special cards and apps, but if you're a very occasional charger in random locations, probably not worth the bother. On our rare uses we've mainly used motorway service stations because that's where we've been driving and it's handy for a piss break. Zapmap for locations.
>You normally connect the EV charger to the incoming power at the meter box, not through the consumer unit.
Totally wrong I’m afraid , that’s just lazy installers not wanting to go into the main consumer unit, or finding it full.
That's not the case in the real world.
I had to get the DNO out to replace the backboard in the meter cupboard before smart meters could be installed. I was talking with the Sparky and told him I was going to be getting a charger and when he wired it all back up, he put in bigger connector blocks that the charger geezer put the new tails into. These went directly to a new CU just for the charger that lives under the stairs. From there the armoured cable runs out to the box on the wall.
He also put in a 100A main fuse to save more bother down the line.
Also, the CT clamp lives in the same area, how's that work without some cabling into the box?
My question is – if I go to a Sainsbury’s (or similar) can I just drive up, swipe my bank card and charge?
For rapid chargers, yes - in England, Wales and the busier parts of Scotland. Rapids tend to be run by big companies like Osprey, Ionity.
Charging at your destination is a bit more tricky because there are many small providers who require an app. But generally this isn't very useful in my experience because if you're spending a couple of hours at a place that's not enough, but if you are staying overnight then blocking one of the charge points for 14 hours feels a bit off when someone else might need it. Plus if it's a hotel etc there might be 3 charge points but way more EVs than that, so who gets the charge point?
I just don't bother and rapid charge on the way there and the way back. Its far easier. And I just wave my debit card.
As for apps to find chargers - Zap Map is ok, but the live feed isn't the most accurate. In my car (Hyundai) the satnav is by far the best option. Just put your destination in and it will route you to the best chargers that are free. The only caveat is that if you cannot charge at your destination you need to put home -> destination -> home in!
Re the grid - in the UK at least, we have been steadily using less electricity since about 2008 or so. The amount we've saved is more than enough to cater for every car in the country to be an EV.
@andy4d - re datacentres.
The other thing with datacentres is that they consume power 24/7, and will rise when the general population is busy online doing stuff, i.e. during the day / peak times, so add to the peak load demand on the grid.
The majority of EVs tend to charge at off-peak times, i.e. overnight when demand is low, plus that demand is shiftable by incentivising users with variable rate tarrifs etc.
So the effect of EVs on the grid isn't a 1:1 relationship with datacentres, it's quite a bit easier for the grid to manage.
We (the Mrs) have a Peugeot e2008, bought outright, 2nd hand, this May. we have just moved to Intelligent Octopus Go - 28 August. I have been trying to shift any load that I can - Washing Machine, Dishwasher, Tumble Dryer - to off-peak rate of 7p kwh.
IOG gives access to the cheap rate from 23.30 to 05.30 every day, as well as whenever the car is charging as long as you cede direct control to Octopus via Ohme.
Today my wife had a lift to work, so I drove her EV to work. She is out tonight and needs to do about a 100 mile round-trip, so when I returned home from work I stuck her car on to charge, telling the charger I needed another 25% of battery charged by 5.30pm. The charger does it's calcs and starts charging.
My understanding is that all the electricity consumption of the house is at 7p kwh while this is happening. I managed to wash a machine load of biking gear on the right setting, plus run the softshells through in TXDirect after they had been washed.
We are getting pretty good at off-peak usage. It is easy with the Washing Machine and Dryer, but I need to make a wee button-bot activated lever to switch on the dishwasher at 11.30pm.
Just about to phone Octopus to sort out some home charging..... And looking at their electroverse plan for on-the-go charging. Will need to work out how to charge company for charging electrons as am doing it as a company car thing. Wasn't sure for a while, but a mate, who has no off street charging in Hove - relying on lampposts, has made it work for the last 4 years, and sometimes manages to drive up to Glasgow and back without major ballache. Most of our driving being local ish means we should be 95% home charged. Appreciate I'm lucky to have a drive for charging, but public charging infrastructure moving so quick seems like it's the way forward. Kia reckon they will be EV only by 2030
Johndoh: download the Tesla app, register and you'll see the charge points you can use. Enter the detail of a bank card when you want to use one, Tesla only debit the leccy you use.
If Tesla charge points cover your needs forget the rest. If you have to use any other network arm yourself with patience and make sure you've got enough kms left to get to another charge point if /when it doesn't work. Tesla = reasonably priced, reliable and enough of them to avoid queues except on holiday departure days.
not strictly EV but as it was mentioned above, data centres use huge amounts of power, not least generating heat in the tech that stores and processes the data, and then taking it away again. There's a lot of work going into new materials for devices, so that at least some of the expansion will be matched by efficiency. Don't panic, there'll still be enough for our cars.
https://www.royce.ac.uk/materials-for-the-energy-transition-low-loss-electronics/
https://www.electropages.com/blog/2024/07/gan-and-sic-transform-ai-data-centers-efficiency
Also interesting to think that google searching is energy intensive, using AI to do the same uses 50-100x more. And so every time someone fails to provide a citation in one of their wild (usually political) claims and so the readers are forced to 'do their own research' - they're directly responsible for the destruction of the planet and more so now I get a pointless AI summary at the top of my google search that I don't read anyway. Bastards.
This is gonna sound pathetic but which Tesla app is it. I have checked and see various apps and i definately dont want to be signing up for one i dont need. I do not have a Tesla but want to use their network for my new EV
If you have to use any other network arm yourself with patience and make sure you’ve got enough kms left to get to another charge point if /when it doesn’t work.
I'm a Tesla driver and yes the Supercharger network is great but only 40 or so of the UK Superchargers are open to the public. There are good non-Tesla networks in the UK like Ionity, Osprey, FastNed, Mer and MFG they'll just cost a bit more. No need for patience to use them just get an Electroverse card which covers just about all the decent charging networks.
Another question – I have installed ZapMap and I have seen they have 'ZapPay'. I assume that, should I put my card details on it, I can then pay over the app if the charge station doesn't accept contactless payments? I also assume that, if there is no phone coverage at the location, then it won't work?
"Tesla"
Though I don't think it's necessary, all the public superchargers we have used just take card payments, and can be found on Zapmap, filtered by public v Tesla only.
The most I paid for a Tesla charge was 50p, all the others were 83p or more. The Tesla app didn't fleece me on exchange rates and commission, all the others did.
I have installed ZapMap and I have seen they have ‘ZapPay’. I assume that, should I put my card details on it, I can then pay over the app if the charge station doesn’t accept contactless payments?
I really wouldn't bother with ZapPay. Just get an Octopus Electroverse card and the Electroverse app. The Electroverse RFID card means you don't need an app and mobile data to activate a charger. Also you don't need to be an Octopus customer to use Electroverse. The Electroverse app is very good in showing the locations of all Electroverse compliant chargers.
This is gonna sound pathetic but which Tesla app is it.
Its the official Tesla app that all Tesla drivers use. If you are a non-Tesla driver you use the "Charge your other EV" part of the app (navigate to it via the pizza box icon on the top rhs). When you open this section the app automatically shows you all the Superchargers available to the public..
Thought I'd have a look at the Tesla App. I've registered and put a payment card in, thne on the home screen there's the 'Charge your EV' pic, so I tap the three lines (top right) and then I can select my profile of there's a charging menu and if I hit that then all I've got is manage payment, history and membership. Can't find the 'other EV' section, am I going nuts?
Next up is Electroverse, something tells me it'll be easier than Tesla.
hi madhouse - this was driving me nuts as well, until I realised that as I am a non-tesla owner (which I guess I must have told the app during set up) the app automatically only shows me Tesla chargers that I can access. There is a ton that simply do not show on my Tesla app, which I cross referenced by using the finder on the Tesla website.
does that make sense?
Haven't actually used one yet right enough, so the access is only theoretical, not confirmed with experience, although I am all set up to do so. Must try at some point!
Oh, and yeah, I do most journey charging planning with Electroverse. it's good.
You are in the "other EV" section, madhouse. Just search a charge point on the map page and away you go. Once registered you open the app and the first thing it proposes when you open it is find a charger, click that for the map and enter a destination (on the French language version anyhow)
Oh, so I don't actually have to do anything? Tesla help was unhelpfully vague.
Just so I know I'm not going mad(er than usual), does this mean as a non-Tesla driver I could use the super chargers at Exeter Services? It's showing in my app that I can and if that's the case it'd be the most useful of the lot for me.
In other news, have signed up for electroverse with a card on the way. Think that pretty much sorts my charging app 'starter for 10' set.
Thanks for the help all.
It's not Exeter services it's Exeter service centre which suggests it's at a Tesla dealer (I've used the one at Solihull service centre which is in the Tesla dealer car park). There's also one at Darts farm Exeter. You can use both. 61p and 65p at the moment as it's the most expensive time of the day. Type the address into Google Maps to find them, the blue dot on the Tesla app isn't as accurate as the Google one.
Thanks for pointing that out, classic user error! Turns out there's nothing that'd be particularly handy to me on my regular jaunts but that might change, so it may still come in handy.
You really don't need to mess about with apps unless you are using slow chargers at destinations (and then only sometimes). Debit card - beep, done. It's nowhere near as bad as Edukator makes out. Mostly it's the older chargers in ones and twos that are unreliable. If you go to a big site or services, they're great. On our recent trip the only charger out of ten or so that didn't work was a Tesla!
They are cheap though, the downside is that they aren't always the most convenient. The one in Cardiff is near the motorway but through a housing estate. It's next to a Waitrose but if that's shut you've got nowhere to sit except in the car.
Had 100 miles of range on arrival. 45 minutes later, 180 miles
@retrorick not sure if we've already discussed this but the charge rate slows down a lot after 80% and dwindles to almost nothing after 90. So if you are on the road, it's significantly more time efficient to stop charging and 80% and start driving. Of course, if you're chilling/drinking/eating then it's fine - as long as you are with the car and you can make sure you're not blocking anyone who needs to charge and get going.
It's not almost nothing on most EVs, Molgrips, the Zoe takes 45kW to about 75% then drops to 36kW and is still at 25kW at 95% and about 18kW at 98%. There are many journeys I do when going to the max rather than 80% avoids a charge at the end of the day which saves the time to hunt down an extra charger and the risk of another faff. The distance between the only reliable chargers (wink) in France sometimes means going to 98% or having to drive slower to get between them. Assuming you recharge at 15% 80- 15 is 65 and 98-15 is 83, roughly 30% more range.
One not working Tesla charger isn't really a problem when there's a row of 28 of them. I'm still on 100% reliablity from about 40 Tesla charges.
There's something like 8 chargers at Fort William, I tried three and failed. There was a CPS one at the other side of the car park I had to use.
I think the Ioniq electric is under 7kW i.e. slower than AC charging by the time it gets to 95%...
The pleasant charging speed of the Ioniq is fine.
Did another 2 sessions today and the time spent charging was spent taking photos of sea mist, seals and phone calls.
I'll be back on the Tesla chargers in a few days...
My Model Y is still pulling 250mph at 85% charge. The stop charging at 80% rule doesn't apply to a lot of EVs these days.
The Ioniq motor in my car is nearing 50000 miles and it is driving as if it was new. I've no idea what it was like when it was new but it is silent at 50000 miles and I don't imagine that it was noisy when new.
Charged it twice today, covered 103 miles at 5.1m/kWh.
The only thing that reveals the age of an EV seems to be the interior and the shock absorbers/suspension bushings, eventually. Our second one at 79k is identical to our first one which was new, other than a few very minor creaks from the bushings. I'm expecting to do the shocks and bushings in a couple of years's time but that's because I'm a fussy bugger with that sort of thing.
Seems like Ioniq motor bearings might go after 200k miles or so, but they can apparently be replaced using the same gear as a gearbox job.
Brushes need replacing. "brushless" is a misnomer in that there's still a contact brush but without segments which eventually wears out. The battery cooling is a weak point and can be very expensive to fix. Motors do fail but rarely. And the usual electrics/electronics nightmare that every modern car is.
Brushes need replacing
I'm not sure about this. Most EV motors are AC induction motors that dont have brushes. There may be exceptions, but I have been consuming a lot of media about EVs over the years and I have never heard the word "brushes" related to EVs until today. Vacuum cleaners, yes.
As for electronics - interior stuff, yes, and whilst there is electronics under the bonnet (the inverter) the two main things that kill engine electronics in an ICE are heat and vibration; neither of these exist in any significant amount in an EV so they should be much more reliable.
Of course, failures can occur.
Brushless motors still have brushes, you'll see what I'm refering to in the photo half way down:
https://www.speakev.com/threads/r90-whining-noise-at-low-speed-supposedly-motor-brushes.161815/
As mentioned earlier by molgrips 3 of the Tesla chargers at Fort William don't work with the Ioniq, Chargers 2a,b,c.
Chargers 1abc work.
Just incase I've mixed the numbers up, the 3 on the left as you look at them don't work but the 3 on the right do (nearest the CPS chargers).
Lots of other non Tesla cars had success with the ones on the left though.
I had a Merc and a BMW using 2 chargers but blocking 3 unless you had a charge port on the driver's side.
Brushless motors still have brushes, you’ll see what I’m refering to in the photo half way down:
There are different types of motors used in EVs. The brushes in that Zoe-specific article power the electromagnet on the rotor, but some motors (like mine) have permanent magnets on the rotor and others rely on induced current in the rotor.
https://www.motortrend.com/features/how-electric-cars-work-ev-differences-definitions/
https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a39493798/ev-motors-explained/
Currently charging at Larkhall Tesla. Arrived at 15%, started slow, needed to get to 33% before the charging speed maxed out at 47kW.
A few Tesla's have arrived, charged and left in the time I've been sat here, ? (crying eyes emoji).
Arrived at 15%, started slow, needed to get to 33% before the charging speed maxed out at 47kW.
I think that's temperature related, the battery needs to be warm before it hits max speed. So if your driving wasn't enough to warm it in cooler weather, it needs the charging current to warm it up.
Did my first ever EV trip over the weekend - tried to hire a Tesla and got a Merc EQE. Delivered with 96%, drove from Manchester to Southampton picking a colleague up near Northwich. Arrived with 32% and used charger at hotel (only charged at 11kwh despite being 22kw charger but no problem as could just leave it charging) Bit of a faff as needed to download an app and took a few goes plugging in to get to to communicate with the car but fine after. Chickened out of leaving it connected all night as was worried it would be full at 4am then charge me for overstaying so didn't depart with a full battery.
Stopped on way up north but the 4 non tesla chargers were busy (sat afternoon) so went to next services and got on last available charger there at 22kwh so grabbed enough charge to get home during the biblical storm, annoyingly as soon as I disconnected the chap in the Mustang next to us went from 22kw to 44 so obviously shared. Nipped to trafford centre to use Tesla superchargers, downloaded app and was soon enjoying 169kw which was mega.
TLDR With no pre planning or even pre loading apps it was pretty easy for a 1st trip, Tesla chargers are the dogs danglies and the Merc has a massive battery.
