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[Closed] The Brecon Beacons name thread is closed to new replies - BUT WHY?

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@csb - Tesco would have been lower quality stuff than the local shops but also lower price, aiming at two different markets. The Co-op has high prices and higher quality produce so more in line with what the local shops offer. The shops won't be able to differentiate themselves from the Co-op offering so will most likely lose out in the long run. It's the same mistake they made with the field above Ffynnonau a few years ago: had planning permission applied for it to be turned into a small solar farm. That was vetoed by the NIMBY's so the developer stuck a load of social housing on it instead. Complete with roofs full of solar panels! That went down like a lead balloon.


 
Posted : 12/05/2023 8:25 pm
kelvin reacted
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@countzero - tell the people in Brecon who're contemplating a legal challenge because the name of their home was changed without even consulting them that it doesn't matter.

People don't organise into a campaigning group and contemplate spending hard-earned because it doesn't matter.

What you really should say is that it doesn't matter to you. But then if it doesn't matter, why post?

I think it matters a lot. It's indicative of ugly welsh nationalism rearing it's potentially very violent head above the parapet once again - when it needs to die in a hole.


 
Posted : 12/05/2023 10:24 pm
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It’s the same sort of guff that means Carnedd Uchaf has been renamed Carnedd Gwenllian – it’s a “**** you” to the English. That particular renaming is stark and obvious (Gwenllian was a welsh princess of zero note, other than she was locked up by the English (rather than beheaded)).

Err yeah, but no.

Next to each other are Carnedd Llywelyn, Dafydd and now Gwenllian

Llywelyn was her father, the last 'proper' Prince of Wales, Dafydd was her uncle and her protector until his death. Far from being 'of zero note' as the only offspring of the Prince of Wales she had to be imprisoned as a nun in England as any children she might have could threaten English control leading a revolt.

Back to the 50 businesses complaining. I see on twitter one of them is a butchers with a 0 food hygiene rating. I reckon a bout of food poisoning is more off putting a return than changing the prominence of the national parks name.


 
Posted : 12/05/2023 10:58 pm
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I've been practising the Welsh name, for all of 30 seconds.

it's not hard to pronounce and I think it's a good thing. More national pride and identity please.


 
Posted : 12/05/2023 11:11 pm
salad_dodger reacted
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My lovely mother in law was a Gwenllian. Lived in Wick (Wyg), South Wales. Known to all as Wynn. My Father in law (a Kentish man, posted to Llandow during the war) when he applied for a passport for her thought he'd better use her "real" name so she became Winifred.


 
Posted : 12/05/2023 11:25 pm
gordimhor reacted
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I was under the impression that English was the official language of Great Britain which last time I checked includes Wales. So why is the state funding signage not in the official language of the country?

Great Britain isn't a country, it's a land mass. That makes about as much sense as there being, say, having an official language of a national park.


 
Posted : 12/05/2023 11:29 pm
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its bigger than Britain tho 🙂


 
Posted : 12/05/2023 11:43 pm
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contemplating a legal challenge because the name of their home was changed without even consulting them

You got a link for that? Surely 12, Jones Street, Brecon will still have that address?
Whose home is changing because of a minor clerical change to the name of an area of land that doesn’t feature in an address?


 
Posted : 12/05/2023 11:52 pm
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Should the thread title have read
'-WHY BUT'?


 
Posted : 13/05/2023 12:00 am
jonnyboi reacted
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I don’t want to see Wales to go back to the 70’s and 80’s where you weren’t welcome in the pubs

I wasn't welcome in Welsh pubs in the 70s and 80s.

But to be fair that's because I was a child then.


 
Posted : 13/05/2023 12:08 am
Cougar reacted
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I think there's an argument for the national park to use Welsh alone there's also a good argument for bilingual signage.
I found this article convincing.
https://interestingengineering.com/culture/what-happens-when-a-language-dies-and-is-forgotten


 
Posted : 13/05/2023 12:27 am
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Great Britain isn’t a country, it’s a land mass. That makes about as much sense as there being, say, having an official language of a national park.

The term Great Britain is often used as a shorten version of the correct name of the country - The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, which is quite a mouthful.

It makes sense to most people. I don't recall many people being confused by the term Great Britain and wondering whether it referred to a land mass rather than a country.


 
Posted : 13/05/2023 12:57 am
jonnyboi and Ambrose reacted
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@brucewee

Lots of emotive language but I suspect, if you were really honest with yourself, you’d realise you don’t actually care about it all that much either.

You just really really love saying controversial things so you can be the centre of attention

FTFY


 
Posted : 13/05/2023 10:04 am
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Ernie - in which case it should be "the UK" if you want a shortening 🙂


 
Posted : 13/05/2023 10:11 am
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The term Great Britain is often used as a shorten version of the correct name of the country

By who?

ime it's mostly used by English people who want to refer to the entire country as England but for some reason they can't understand it seems to annoy people. They can't remember the actual name of the country but then the chorus of Rule Britannia pops into their head and they think, 'Britain!' and it's Great!

It makes sense to most people. I don’t recall many people being confused by the term Great Britain and wondering whether it referred to a land mass rather than a country.

It makes sense to most English people who never think about Northern Ireland.

Most Scottish and Irish (and probably Welsh) people will make the distinction and refer to the UK (which is less of a mouthful than Great Britain).

Only when they want to refer to just England, Scotland, and Wales will they say Great Britain.


 
Posted : 13/05/2023 10:17 am
kelvin reacted
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because the name of their home was changed without even consulting them

It wasn't. They still live in Brecon, Powys (or Erwood or Crickhowell or wherever). No town, county or country has changed its name. Although the county has changed in the past (from Breconshire), I wonder if they moaned about that?

The National Park Authority is an administrative body set up to manage that part of the countryside, handling conservation and tourism. That NPA decided to change its name on a whim. There's nothing more to it than that.

There is certainly an issue with militant Cymrification at times, but from what I can tell it's pretty minor on the whole. The people of Powys kicking up a big fuss about this are just as bad, if not worse. Legal challenge, for goodness' sake!


 
Posted : 13/05/2023 1:24 pm
kelvin and salad_dodger reacted
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Jesus who really gives a shit…do we need another thread

It's just another 'chevy arguing about things that only happened in his head' thread.


 
Posted : 13/05/2023 1:58 pm
boriselbrus, salad_dodger, Cougar and 1 people reacted
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Jesus who really gives a shit…do we need another thread

Time was that reopening a moderator-closed thread would net a few days off. Halcyon days.

The term Great Britain is often used

... by nationalist tubthumpers who don't understand what "Great" means in this context.

It makes sense to most people.

Well, yes, but, many people are idiots.


 
Posted : 13/05/2023 2:38 pm
kelvin and boriselbrus reacted
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It makes sense to most people.

Well, yes, but, many people are idiots.

So if someone tells you that they are a British citizen you point out that Britian is a "land mass" and they might as well claim to be a citizen of "a national park"?

I don't think that understanding what someone means by Britian makes you an idiot, although being anal about the precise terminology possibly does.

Ernie – in which case it should be “the UK” if you want a shortening 🙂

Well the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland can indeed be shortened to the UK, or GB.

But I can understand why a committed royalist like yourself TJ would want to strongly emphasise the fact that we live under a constitutional monarchy.

Although I don't understand why the need for the term "United", the Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland sounds perfectly reasonable to me, who has ever heard of a country describing themselves as a disunited kingdom? Just describing itself as a kingdom conveys the fact that the country is united into one entity.


 
Posted : 13/05/2023 3:47 pm
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Well the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland can indeed be shortened to the UK, or GB

No, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland cannot be shortened to Great Britain. It can be shortened to UK.

When you say Great Britain you are talking about England, Scotland, and Wales, deliberately excluding Northern Ireland.

Unless you are one of those people who think of the UK as simply England and everything else is pedantic nonsense. In which case you are an idiot.


 
Posted : 13/05/2023 4:01 pm
kelvin reacted
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Englishman living in Wales for 15yrs, just back from a festival of Welsh language on Pontypridd park, lots of Welsh speakers and no English heard over the PA in all the time I was there, but, this close after the Breacon Beacons name change? Makes you think, I don't speak the language, that band could have been singing about anything?!?

FWIW the only time I've ever felt abused by the locals is when the 6 nation's is on and none of them speak Welsh! Being from Nottinghamshire and living and working in the valleys I quickly learnt to not to say anything win or lose about anything Rugby related!!


 
Posted : 13/05/2023 4:10 pm
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Nope. Walking away.


 
Posted : 13/05/2023 4:16 pm
kelvin reacted
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Being from Nottinghamshire and living and working in the valleys I quickly learnt to not to say anything win or lose about anything Rugby related!!

Being from Manchester, when I spent a short while living in Cwmbran, I found stating that I thought the English rugby union fans were a bunch of "annoying pims quaffing public schoolboy hooray henrys" made me quite welcome.


 
Posted : 13/05/2023 6:14 pm
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So if someone tells you that they are a British citizen you point out that Britian is a “land mass”

That isn't what I said at all.


 
Posted : 13/05/2023 7:41 pm
kelvin reacted
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In my experience loads of people use "Great Britain" interchangeably with UK. It's really not a pedantic hill worth dying on.


 
Posted : 13/05/2023 8:10 pm
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In my experience loads of people use “Great Britain” interchangeably with UK. It’s really not a pedantic hill worth dying on.

In my experience loads of people use England interchangeably with UK.


 
Posted : 13/05/2023 8:46 pm
kelvin reacted
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In my experience loads of people are idiots, but I made this point once and got chastised.


 
Posted : 13/05/2023 9:01 pm
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In my experience loads of people are idiots, but I made this point once and got chastised.

I don't think it's necessarily that people are idiots. Well, some obviously are.

But I think it's more a product of being born and raised in England where England, Britain, Great Britain, and the UK all mean pretty much the same thing.

There is genuine bemusement when it's pointed out that the names do mean different things and, outside of England, the distinctions are important.

Hate to say it, but it doesn't really get me that wound up anymore. I just put it down to English people being English.


 
Posted : 13/05/2023 9:14 pm
geeh and kelvin reacted
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Obviously England is interchangeable with the UK in a wide variety of contexts though.


 
Posted : 13/05/2023 9:14 pm
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In my experience loads of people use England interchangeably with UK.

Yeah, invariably foreigners. In the same way as Brits talk about Holland.

I can't remember the last time I heard a British person referring to a Scottish or Welsh town, for example, as being in England though. Unless they made a genuine mistake.


 
Posted : 13/05/2023 9:33 pm
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Yeah, invariably foreigners. In the same way as Brits talk about Holland.

I can’t remember the last time I heard a British person referring to a Scottish or Welsh town, for example, as being in England though. Unless they made a genuine mistake.

Given the fact you didn't know what Great Britain was up until it was explained to you a few hours ago, I think I'll take your thoughts on the subject with a pinch of salt.


 
Posted : 13/05/2023 9:44 pm
scotroutes reacted
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Thanks for patronising comment but I have always been, unsurprisingly, fully aware of what Great Britain means.

I am also fully aware that British people don't refer to Scotland and Wales as being "England".


 
Posted : 13/05/2023 9:49 pm
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Thanks for patronising comment but I have always been, unsurprisingly, fully aware of what Great Britain means.

No you weren't.

I am also fully aware that British people don’t refer to Scotland and Wales as being “England”.

Not all British people. Just the English.

The British who, as you learned earlier in the thread, are not the same as the English.


 
Posted : 13/05/2023 10:00 pm
kelvin and scotroutes reacted
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Not all British people. Just the English.

Well if you know English people who refer to Scotland and Wales as being part of England I suggest that you change the company you keep.

I don't know any English people who refer to Edinburgh or Cardiff as being in England.


 
Posted : 13/05/2023 10:07 pm
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Well if you know English people who refer to Scotland and Wales as being part of England I suggest that you change the company you keep.

I would but you guys are all over this bloody forum. Can't escape youse.

I don’t know any English people who refer to Edinburgh or Cardiff as being in England.

I'm sure you do, you just don't notice. Probably because you're too busy doing the same thing yourself.

Anyway, next time you meet your friends you can amaze them with the new knowledge you have about England (as you call it) and how when you say Great Britain, it doesn't actually include Northern Ireland. It'll be like an episode of QI.


 
Posted : 13/05/2023 10:20 pm
kelvin and scotroutes reacted
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Honestly BruceWee, take a break.


 
Posted : 13/05/2023 10:20 pm
ads678, blokeuptheroad, chevychase and 3 people reacted
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 I just put it down to English people being English.

Please don't be so contemptuous of those who didn't have the fortune to be born covered in Celtic awesome pixie dust


 
Posted : 13/05/2023 10:26 pm
ernielynch reacted
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Please don’t be so contemptuous of those who didn’t have the fortune to be born covered in Celtic awesome pixie dust

Watch out. Since BruceWee is a language purist I am sure they will get offended at the term "celtic" and start debating how exactly it should be used. A very fraught term once you get beyond the Victorian romanticism.


 
Posted : 13/05/2023 10:31 pm
ernielynch reacted
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Maybe we need a thread you can go to for an argument.


 
Posted : 13/05/2023 10:33 pm
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Maybe we need a thread you can go to for an argument.

Or people could stop insisting their ignorance is just other people being pedantic?


 
Posted : 13/05/2023 10:46 pm
kelvin, gordimhor, sc-xc and 1 people reacted
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Not all British people. Just the English.

I've literally never experienced this.


 
Posted : 13/05/2023 11:09 pm
ernielynch reacted
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As a Welsh person living in England, who can barley speak a word of Welsh, I don't really care.

If they want it to be known by the Welsh name that's fine by me, And it's probably more appropriate given its geographical location.

BUt that is literally all I have to say on the topic.


 
Posted : 13/05/2023 11:11 pm
malv173, tjagain and kelvin reacted
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As a Welsh person living in England

So I assume that you don't actually wear a fez? Iz disappoint 😟


 
Posted : 13/05/2023 11:17 pm
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So I assume that you don’t actually wear a fez? Iz disappoint 😟

Ahh yes, the Fez! the hat of my people! 🙂

Sorry to disapoint!


 
Posted : 13/05/2023 11:30 pm
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But I think it’s more a product of being born and raised in England where England, Britain, Great Britain, and the UK all mean pretty much the same thing.

Except, they don't. And I take your point, our country's various nomenclature is weirdly complicated. But should it be a great leap to know where you live, especially in a nation that likes to trot out clichés like "if you want to live here you should learn the language"?

My nationality is British. The country I live in is England. My sovereign as nation broadly presented internationally is the UK. The lump of rock I live on is Great Britain. These are all different things despite how much people might confuse them.

I don’t know any English people who refer to Edinburgh or Cardiff as being in England.

How about outside of England? I've heard an American ask "so where exactly in England is Scotland?" before now.

If it confuses those who actually live here then the rest of the world has no chance.


 
Posted : 14/05/2023 1:42 am
BruceWee reacted
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