[Closed] The Brecon Beacons name thread is closed to new replies - BUT WHY?

What’s so strange about changing the official name of somewhere back to its original name? No-one is saying you can’t use the anglicised name and no-one is saying that you have to only speak Welsh.

If you actually think about this stuff with any degree of empathy you see that the English names given to so many places around the world are an anachronistic colonial embarrassment.

Speaking as a Welsh person living in Wales, I think that's a crock.

Why not be bilingual?   The drive to remove dual-English naming, against the wishes I'd argue of the majority of Welsh, is ugly nationalism, not "heritage preservation".

There's a long standing tradition (and legal requirement) to name places in both Welsh and English.   Welsh first.

We should simply continue to follow that, and ignore the tiny minority of angry asshats who are driving the narrative.

Errmmm - by my understanding its the national park name that has changed not the hills themselves.

Official name of the National Park @tjagain.  Yep.   Without consultation of the people who live in the National Park - many of whom are not happy about it.   It's not a neutral act.

What's happened is a group of small-minded nationalists who sit on the national park board have driven through a change that suits their ideology without talking to the local people or local businesses - because they don't actually care about the local people.  They care about hating the English.

If this had been put to the vote in the locality then it wouldn't have gone through.   So they didn't ask.

The optics being applied to this are all wrong.   It's being sold as "preserving national heritage", but it's anything but.

There’s a long standing tradition (and legal requirement) to name places in both Welsh and English.   Welsh first.

What's the English name for Llangollen?

and ignore the tiny minority of angry asshats who are driving the narrative

The angriest person about all this I see on here, or anywhere in the media, is you dude.

We’d all moved on, the thread was closed (no idea why), and the long process of gradual acceptance of a minor, and optional, change had started.

Then you pop up to drive the narrative again.
Ironic, no?

What’s the English name for Llangollen?

is it Llangollen?

They care about hating the English.

TBH, I* don't feel particularly hated by this, but thankyou for your concern.

*caveat I moved to wales and learnt to speak fluent Welsh, although moved back 25 years ago and I've now forgotten almost all of it.

What’s the English name for Llangollen?

+1

It's only a minority of Welsh places that have English (as opposed to Anglicized) names anyway.

I'm not Welsh and have never lived there, but am not remotely bothered by this. They're their hills and they can call them what they like.

Just as long as they tolerate my inevitable mispronunciation.

So, to summarise:

1. Organisation changes its name because it feels like it.
2. Most of the country goes 'oh, ok'.
3. No-one loses their shit but everyone's talking about people losing their shit.
4. The losing of shit takes on a life of its own despite no-one having lost their shit.
5. Meta-shit-losing now happens via some kind of internet-based induction.

Fair?

Just as long as they tolerate my inevitable mispronunciation.

No problem with that, just don't start taking the piss and mocking when you discover that you're mispronouncing it.

What’s the English name for Llangollen?

Lanngollan

is it Llangollen?

It is.

So, to summarise:

Organisation changes its name because it feels like it.

Most of the country goes ‘oh, ok’.

No-one loses their shit but everyone’s talking about people losing their shit.

The losing of shit takes on a life of its own despite no-one having lost their shit.

Meta-shit-losing now happens via some kind of internet-based induction.

A few locals have been up in arms about it, my uncle for one. He's one of the local weirdos who rides the bus everywhere and any time someone says the Welsh version he just HAS to interject forcefully and tell them it's the Brecon Beacons. He's a complete idiot but there are a few other like him so it's not completely unfounded that no-one is losing their shit over it.

It is true the Welsh Independence lot are gaining ground and trying to reinstate a lot of Welsh names to things but they're in the vast minority and it'll all quieten down over time, it always does. Brexit was the catalyst this time for them rallying the troops, the coronation too. It'll die down and wait for the next thing for them to latch on.

I don't care which name people use for the record, both are on the signs and I'll know what you mean either way.

To me this is a "who cares?"  I cannot pronounce the welsh name.  I'd either make a stab at it and probably be laughed at or use the English name.

There are loads of names all round the place that are hard to pronounce.  so what?

Oh and as an aside, it's mainly NIMBY's who are doing this and a lot of them are non-natives as they're called locally. They've been battling a new shop inky hometown for years now and are really upset they lost.

The old Conservative Club in Crickhowell closed down so the locals wanted it to become a shop. In stepped Tesco who bought the site and started the process of redesigning the layout. The locals got wind of who was doing it and all work was made to halt. The main reason being that the access road to the car park and loading bay is a private lane so they thought they could get access denied. Trouble is that the old Con Club had been there decades and had used that access all that time so a precedent had been set. Tesco got that made legal and then sat doing nothing for a few years. The locals started to complain about the eyesore the site was but still refused to let Tesco move in via contacts on the local council. Tesco countered this by changing the site to now be a One Stop instead. The locals were happy until I inadvertently told one of them that Ones Stop is owned by Tesco and they have a history of changing the branding. Cue a second round of frothing etc by the NIMBY's. The site sat for the whole of the pandemic until a few weeks ago when the final groundwork was completed and it's now awaiting fitting out which is due in a few weeks. The people moving in? The Co-Operative. They bought the site from Tesco and have just ploughed on regardless, due to open in time for summer. The place will make a killing as it has parking outside and won't be overly expensive with a good range of stuff. The local shops have actively tried to get the high street pedestrianised over the last year or two meaning any customers going to them will have to park the other side of town and walk in, going to a few shops as all the local shops agreed to not compete with each other a few decades ago. The locals had the idea that small, independent trades would move into the old Con Club like they did with the old Corn Exchange pub but there's no more left to move in hence the plethora of coffee shops in a small town!

It's going to be funny watching the local shopkeepers try and bluff their way out of the problem they have created themselves.

I was under the impression that English was the official language of Great Britain which last time I checked includes Wales. So why is the state funding signage not in the official language of the country?

Becase the name of the national park is in Welsh only.

should all the Scottish mountains have english names?  I cannot pronounce many of them.  What about the welsh mountains and villages that only have Welsh names?

<span style="color: #000000; font-family: Roboto, 'Helvetica Neue', Arial, 'Noto Sans', sans-serif, -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, 'Segoe UI', 'Apple Color Emoji', 'Segoe UI Emoji', 'Segoe UI Symbol', 'Noto Color Emoji';">"I’m not Welsh and have never lived there, but am not remotely bothered by this. They’re their hills and they can call them what they like."</span>

I'm Welsh so one of "they" nobody asked me or anyone else it was just decided ☹

<span style="color: #000000; font-family: Roboto, 'Helvetica Neue', Arial, 'Noto Sans', sans-serif, -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, 'Segoe UI', 'Apple Color Emoji', 'Segoe UI Emoji', 'Segoe UI Symbol', 'Noto Color Emoji'; background-color: #eeeeee;"> "The drive to remove dual-English naming, against the wishes I’d argue of the majority of Welsh, is ugly nationalism, not “heritage preservation”."</span>

This all day long !!

What has happened to the quote feature ?

is it Llangollen

Yes, but notice that the double Ls are swapped around between the two variants. Subtle subversion.

I was under the impression that English was the official language of Great Britain which last time I checked includes Wales. So why is the state funding signage not in the official language of the country?

Yes, it's written in the official Great Britain Constitution, a thing that definitely exists, that the Official Language of Great Britain is English.

Edit: Actually, isn't the 'official' language of England French?  Outside a sign saying to drive on the left at Dover I don't think I've seen any French road signs in England.

It's a travesty!

Edit 2: Sorry, that should be Norman French:

https://www.parliament.uk/site-information/glossary/norman-french/

@tjagain

Becase the name of the national park is in Welsh only.

No.  It was officially dual-language until Welsh Nationalists, against the will of the people who live in that National Park (deliberately not consulting them for that reason), removed the English half of it, because they hate the English.

It was, officially, The Brecon Beacons National Park, established in 1957.

It's the same sort of guff that means Carnedd Uchaf has been renamed Carnedd Gwenllian - it's a "**** you" to the English.  That particular renaming is stark and obvious (Gwenllian was a welsh princess of zero note, other than she was locked up by the English (rather than beheaded)).  There's no reason to choose that designation other than a permanent reminder that some Welsh people hold "The English" responsible for stuff that happened 800 years ago and want them to be reminded of how much they're hated.

These people should not be pandered to.  They're small minded, insular, idiotic children with an outsize voice.

I refuse to be apathetic about it and just shrug my shoulders.  To recall Einstein again: "Nationalism is an infantile disease - it's the measles of mankind".

There's 50 businesses in Brecon, farmers, shopkeepers etc - who are thinking of bringing a legal challenge.  That's not nobody caring - that's people who've had the name of their home changed underneath them and they feel that it makes a difference - and who am I to argue with that?

The reason I'm passionate about it is that if I see an asshat then I'm morally obliged to point it out.   There's plenty of Welsh Nationalist voices (Plaid Cymru gain vote share despite the party being chock full of despicable people) - they're all over the interwebs.  So I'm duty bound to provide a different viewpoint.

I don't want to see Wales to go back to the 70's and 80's where you weren't welcome in the pubs and you could easily find yourself on the wrong end of fisticuffs (or much much worse) - and that's down to these sorts of people and this sort of thinking.

I'm fully in agreement with the people of Brecon who want their home to be re-named bilingually again.

The reason I’m passionate about it is that if I see an asshat then I’m morally obliged to point it out.

Your days must be very busy.

Yours are clearly empty @brucewee, since you've time to respond to something you clearly don't care about.

Sorry slightly off topic but

Meta-shit-losing now happens via some kind of internet-based induction.

Is this the loss of meta-shit or shit being meta-lost? Whatever that means.

Regardless I'm going to start telling people I've lost my meta shit 😃

Welsh person living in Wales.  & i'm fine with the change.  Imo we should just give everywhere one name. Pick either the Welsh or English and stick with it.

The Brecon Beacons name thread is closed to new replies – BUT WHY?

That's odd, the thread on the Welsh version of the Chat forum is still open. Have you tried posting over there?

Yours are clearly empty @brucewee, since you’ve time to respond to something you clearly don’t care about.

Do I care about this?  Not really.

Lots of emotive language but I suspect, if you were really honest with yourself, you'd realise you don't actually care about it all that much either.

You just really really hate nationalists.

Yeah, it's a mystery why the other thread was closed.

Your days must be very busy.

Maybe he just avoids mirrors.

It was, officially, The Brecon Beacons National Park, established in 1957.

Yes, way back when the mountains were first created.

And while you're ranting about nationalists, do you want to play the 'Am I a nationalist?' game?

I made a thread on Rishi Sunak agreeing with the OP, which decided the matter (in support of the name change) for a lot of ambivalent folk.

But in reality, apart from a very few brown road signs to the tourist centre, the National Park Authority website and letterhead, and, err, not sure what else, where will the new name actually manifest itself?

I don’t want to see Wales to go back to the 70’s and 80’s where you weren’t welcome in the pubs

Ahhh, you're one of those people who speaks Welsh in the pubs and then switches to English as soon as the Welsh speakers walk in.

against the will of the people who live in that National Park

I'm not sure why they would have to be consulted?  Surely the park authorities are essentially just part of the planning apparatus, the inhabitants aren't part of it are they?  The mountains themselves, sure, but the park authority?

I mean, if we were to change the name of Wales to Cymru officially, that might make a difference - and we'd all have to call ourselves Cymro/Cymraes/Cymry (can of worms there) - but it's not.  Did people lose their shit when they changed the name of the Welsh Assembly to the Senedd?  Did we care?

@chevychase are you sure it's English-hating nationalists that are behind this?  Or is it just someone who thought it sounded nicer?  Both my daughters have Welsh names, simply because we thought it was nice.  I'm no raving nationalist, as TJ well knows 🙂

Fair play, it should have been called Brecony ap-beaconface. Is it?

and ignore the tiny minority of angry asshat

I think this is sage advice that we could all follow, on all the threads you appear on.

and ignore the tiny minority of angry asshat

There’s 50 businesses in Brecon, farmers, shopkeepers etc

Bannau Brycheiniog Population Estimate 33,400

You are aware of the difference between people and businesses @thisisnotaspoon?

What do you imagine your provision of regional population data actually says?

Why are you getting so worked up about this?  With all the crap thats going on you think this actually matters?

Why are you getting so worked up about this? With all the crap thats going on you think this actually matters?

People get very angry on social media, which I think is probably the reason that the other thread got closed.

Although I couldn't detect any anger in Chevy's last post, just a fairly valid point which you might or might not agree with, so I have no idea why you are asking the question.

Why are you getting so worked up about this?

He has a point to an extent about nationalist ****ers with extreme and intransigent views, but I'm not sure this falls into that category.

@reluctantjumper I'm confused by

The people moving in? The Co-Operative. They bought the site from Tesco

I love Crickhowell and I see that as a massive win for those local shops who stalled Tesco. Co-op is a far better operator and more 'aligned to the Crickhowell ethos' isn't it?

Jesus who really gives a shit...do we need another thread

And yet you openned the thread and felt compelled to post......

There’s a long standing tradition (and legal requirement) to name places in both Welsh and English.   Welsh first.

We should simply continue to follow that, and ignore the tiny minority of angry asshats who are driving the narrative.

So as it stands, the name is now Welsh first, so what is the problem? If people want to carry on using the English name, there is nothing in law, or anything else that stops them. Nothing. Visitors will see the Welsh name, as they see the Welsh names of other places, and just accept that as the name and get used to it over time.
What’s that irritating whining noise? Does Wales have a massive midge problem during the summer? No, it’s just chevychase going onandonandonandonandonandon about nothing of any significance whatsoever.