MegaSack DRAW - This year's winner is user - rgwb
We will be in touch
Using horses for “crowd control” is stupid. I ride regularly and consider it unfair on the crowd, the horse and even the cop on it.
They are used very effectively worldwide for crowd-control. Ever been to the footy? Inappropriate to be thinking of 'tactics' to disable them IMO.
They are used very effectively worldwide for crowd-control.
Sometimes so - on yesterday's evidence, sometimes not. Any idea why they were deployed? Seen footage of them galloping through and scattering protestors just walking down the road, and I thought "that would have pissed me right off".
that would have pissed me right off
You must be very courageous. I've been on the end of an angry/charging horse and I absolutely shit myself and wanted out of there ASAP. That a big animal that can do a lot of damage and is very scary bearing down on you like that.
Stumpyjohn,
My niece and my sister in law attended two different protests yesterday, one in London and one in the Shires. I'll ask them if attending made them feel better about themselves when we next catch up.
I attended yesterdays Manchester protest myself, (kept to the fringes and didn't stay too long, social distancing and all that.) Waking up this morning I can confirm that I don't feel any better about myself than I did before I attended the protest.
You mentioned Brexit. Have a think about it from a black perspective. Brexit is a fight that ostensibly has nothing to do with them but has bought it's knee down upon their necks harder than anyone. Friends and relatives have told me that since the Brexit malarkey they have experienced open hostility and aģression the likes of which they haven't seen since the 1980's
So we are not getting better in th UK. We are going backwards.
Inappropriate to be thinking of ‘tactics’ to disable them IMO.
I thought of them, I didn't type them. You also know what I think of you policing my thoughts, so I don't need to type that either.
What do think of these sort of tactics, Jamze?
Any idea why they were deployed? Seen footage of them galloping through and scattering protestors just walking down the road, and I thought “that would have pissed me right off”.
Deployed for crowd control. Very normal, we have a stable near us and see them frequently. A gallop is over 25mph, they def wouldn't have been doing that.
An impossible situation I think, thousands out in London - last time the met seemed to have very little crowd control out and some were injured. Bigger numbers yest so was obvious a bit more control would be needed.
What do think of these sort of tactics, Jamze?
Looks OTT to me.
Inkster you clearly didnt read my post properly, first off I said Brexit and the associated populism put community harmony back 20 years as it made veiled racism acceptable again for some although the UK is still a better place than the 60s.
2nd the protests were more about the people protesting, they arent going to achieve anything, Boris is loving it as it takes the spot light off his incompetence, as I said it's just re-inforcing many gammons view of the world that people who are not like them are protesting when they shouldn't, it's just making divisions more entrenched.
Oh and Brexit is to do with everyone who lives in this country regardless of their background, to suggest it ostensibly has nothing to do with black people is mind boggling, are they not people and citizens of this country as well, with a stake in it's future, jeez talk about one dimensional politics.
Using horses for “crowd control” is stupid. I ride regularly
Is there anything your not an expert at?
Stumpy,
The least racist is still racist.
Are we not to protest in case we wind the Gammons up?
The fight was Britain versus Europe.....ostensibly.
Brexit effects everyone who lives in this country regardless of their background, though for some people these effects are more frightening.
What little sympathy I had with this "cause" evaporated after the bike/horse incident. Send in the army with tear gas and rubber bullets I say.
Is there anything your not an expert at?
If riding around some nice trails twice a week makes me an expert in your eyes I'll gladly accept the compliment. I don't think many on this forum would regard themselves as "expert" mountain bikers, I do think most of us know enough about MTBs and riding them to make constructive comment if we saw the police doing stupid things on mountain bikes putting themselves and the public in danger.
MTB:
25mph with a fit rider
Excellent brakes
Can be thrown in the shed and forgotten about when you get home wet, cold and dirty.
Horse:
40mph with an unfit rider
lousy and unpredictable brakes
Needs it's feet looking after, feeding and grooming when you get home feeling wet and cold, and you'll end up dirty even if you weren't at the end of the ride.
The use of horses as a means of force in crowd control doesn't do the image of the police any good at all.
If a horse bolts you grab the rein on one side with both hands, pull hard and keep tugging. Sit back, feet forward hard in the styrups. I've mainly ridden in France but Google "one rein stop". That cop was a passenger.
The use of horses as a means of force in crowd control doesn’t do the image of the police any good at all.
Different people have different ideas about that. It might look bad to you, I’ve seen plenty of forum (not this one) commentary, and ****ter, that viewed it as a good thing.
You must be very courageous. I’ve been on the end of an angry/charging horse and I absolutely shit myself and wanted out of there ASAP. That a big animal that can do a lot of damage and is very scary bearing down on you like that.
Ha! I make no claims about my own bravery, as much as I'd like to think otherwise, I'm pretty sure I'd be scarpering as quick as my little legs would carry me. It was more an observation that, unless there was a clear requirement for horses to control the crowd, galloping (or trotting or skipping, or whatever) line abreast through a crowd of people peaceably protesting an event unavoidably tied to police brutality could be perceived as antagonistic, if we're looking for a reason why people were throwing things at them and sounding pissed off.
What little sympathy I had with this “cause” evaporated after the bike/horse incident. Send in the army with tear gas and rubber bullets I say.
Forum deep thinker returns.
What little sympathy I had with this “cause” evaporated after the bike/horse incident. Send in the army with tear gas and rubber bullets I say.
It's hand-wringing bleeding heart do-gooders like you that are bringing this country to its knees. If we don't gas the entire population of Western Europe, the commies will have won
Using horses for “crowd control” is stupid.
Especially in Newcastle..
Colston’s statue has been pulled down in Bristol.
Then they took it for a walk and threw it in the harbour. 😂
DD - I've just spent a very depressing 5 minutes reading the comments below the Evening Post article.
It was more an observation that, unless there was a clear requirement for horses to control the crowd, galloping (or trotting or skipping, or whatever) line abreast through a crowd of people peaceably protesting an event unavoidably tied to police brutality could be perceived as antagonistic, if we’re looking for a reason why people were throwing things at them and sounding pissed off.
Agree with that, would be interested to know why the met wanted to move their police line forward.
The eye-witness reports after the horse incident are interesting. Everyone was kept there for hours, to be allowed out and go home you had to give your details and have a pic taken by the police. I assume so they can review on the CCTV.
Colston’s statue has been pulled down in Bristol.
Colston on a plinth and his name on stuff has always been tone-death. Colston Hall is changing its name I think.
DD – I’ve just spent a very depressing 5 minutes reading the comments below the Evening Post article.
Is that angry comments by white Bristolians annoyed that “their history” has had another chapter written in it?
Colston’s statue has been pulled down in Bristol.
Now they need one to replace it. Bordeaux has a stutue that is a tribute to the slaves rather than slave traders:
Whilst in Martinique some other contorversial statues have been dealt with in an argument over who was the most significant anti-slave trader:
Inevitably, it will be dredged up and put on display somewhere - hopefully alongside the slavery section at the M-shed (the city’s museum). I look forward to section on the information plinth which reads, “the damage, marks and scratches you see now happened in 2020 when an angry mob pulled it down from its city centre location, dragged it, with a rope around its neck (much like Colston’s trades slaves would have been) across town and threw it into the floating harbour.”
ukgov saying completely the wrong thing in response. Just seen Priti Patel on TV.
Bristol Council has been resisting doing anything about Colston for years. It was a regular thing we raised when I was a student there - late 90s. Wonder why?
“If a horse bolts you grab the rein on one side with both hands, pull hard and keep tugging. Sit back, feet forward hard in the styrups. I’ve mainly ridden in France but Google “one rein stop”. That cop was a passenger.“
@Edukator She is a mate of mine. I shall pass on your advice when she leaves hospital....
Wonder why?
You only have to read the comments under the line on various social media posts about today, to understand. A lot of people in the town have absolutely no problem with the city’s past associations with slavery - just another “we should move on” brigade. They know enough to say that they do, but now that another chapter has been written into the Colston saga - they’re not happy.
The symbolism of dragging it across town with a rope and dumping it in the harbour from where so many slave ships sailed, was beautiful.
Hello, Kato. You've been keeping a low profile since you joined the police. You used to be quite outspoken on the other channel.
She is a mate of mine. I shall pass on your advice when she leaves hospital….
I genuinely, genuinely, genuinely wish her all the best, but when she's out and feeling better, can you ask her why mounted police were deployed?
11 long years
You only have to read the comments under the line on various social media posts about today, to understand. A lot of people in the town have absolutely no problem with the city’s past associations with slavery – just another “we should move on” brigade. They know enough to say that they do, but now that another chapter has been written into the Colston saga – they’re not happy.
TBH I think they’re about 200 years too late in pulling it down, whitewashing the past helps no-one thou.
I do like the idea of putting it in the M-Shed 🙂
DD – I’ve just spent a very depressing 5 minutes reading the comments below the Evening Post article.
It’s like the Dailey fail thou And it’s not even the real evening post anymore, you should have seen the fuss over the grass outside the council house that grew back a week later after the Greta climate change visit.
I can never understand the whole “whitewashing history” thing. Pulling his statue down changes nothing of what happened. The (euphemistically) “awkward” relationship between Bristol and Colston’s legacy has been drumming on for decades - the council has constantly dragged its heels over it. It’s no surprise really that they’ve finally pulled the bloody thing down. I’m surprised it’s taken till now.
Bristol - a city built on slavery.
With Colston's statue in the floating harbour, what's next?
What about the charitable institutions he founded which still exist today; part of their funding would have come from Colston's slave trading.
How about the legacy of the Wills family?
Tobacco and slavery are closely connected; the Wills family were huge benefactors to the city - the Wills building at the uni being just one.
Dumping the statue in the harbour and graffiti on the plinth will do nothing to advance the cause; in fact, they are likely to cause a loss of support.
Any plans to rename Blackboy Hill? I always thought that was a particularly offensive name.
11 long years
Hope you're enjoying the challenge, you're well placed to know about discrimination and I hope that encourages you to tackle it wherever it is present.
Like Pondo, I genuinely feel for your fellow officer but question the decision to send mounted police into a peaceful anti-racism protest. I see it as unnecessary provocation of an already sensitive community and will stand by my assessment that whoever of your bosses ordered the deployment of mounted police made a serious error of judgement which resulted in injury to one of your colleagues and a further degradation in the image of the police among the minority communites it is there to serve just as much as the rest of the polulation.
.
Bristol – a city built on slavery.
With Colston’s statue in the floating harbour, what’s next?
I'm not sure that any amount of charity foundations counter the horrors of the slave trade
Surely the only way to move on is to remove the statue
So that Rhodes statue is next?
Using horses for “crowd control” is stupid. I ride regularly
The police were not exactly aggressive but trying to push the people back with horses.
Either way the police would be blamed for their present or even not enough present.
What little sympathy I had with this “cause” evaporated after the bike/horse incident. Send in the army with tear gas and rubber bullets I say.
Peaceful protest yes but now no.
There is a certain irony seeing people in Scotland turning out to protest this in large numbers.
Not that it isn't something that should be abhorred, but where were the similar protests when a very similar death happened in Scotland?
Bristol – a city built on slavery.
With Colston’s statue in the floating harbour, what’s next?
What about the charitable institutions he founded which still exist today; part of their funding would have come from Colston’s slave trading.
How about the legacy of the Wills family?
Tobacco and slavery are closely connected; the Wills family were huge benefactors to the city – the Wills building at the uni being just one.
Dumping the statue in the harbour and graffiti on the plinth will do nothing to advance the cause; in fact, they are likely to cause a loss of support.
Any plans to rename Blackboy Hill? I always thought that was a particularly offensive name.
Someone’s been doing his research. Impressive stuff there Frank. Plenty for someone bothered enough to consider.
I don't know how well up on 20th century history you are Chewkw but there's a history of mounted police being used aggresively against just causes and peaceful protestors.
In the 20s the sufragettes were surrounded by mounted police who then attacked a group of women and children (a relative of mine was one of those who chained herself to railings) - all the protestors were aquitted of trumped up police charges.
In the miners strike peaceful, resting strikers were charged by mounted police. The protestors were aquitted of trumped up police charges.
In the Thatcher years mounted police were used against poll tax protestors.
You see a trend? There's still a "send in the cavalry" attitude amongst police chiefs. It does them no good. You see this is how I will always see mounted police:
She was pulled out of the way by a colleague and he missed her BTW. Both riders need to work on their foot placement in the styrups.
Someone’s been doing his research. Impressive stuff there Frank. Plenty for someone bothered enough to consider.
I've considered it, and in light of the estimated 84000 people the Royal African Company kidnapped and enslaved during his time there, I think it can all get to ****. I get that times have changed, but "he didn't know any better and anyway, he gave loads to white people" doesn't really cut it for me.
I don’t know how well up on 20th century history you are Chewkw but there’s a history of mounted police being used aggresively against just causes and peaceful protestors.
I was referring to the mounted police in London last two days as they were not even aggressive at all and allowed themselves to be surrounded by protestors. If they were really aggressive they would have charged but they did not.
This threads getting a little narcissistic now.
Bristol – a city built on slavery.
With Colston’s statue in the floating harbour, what’s next?
This old nonsense whataboutery about buildings, charities and roadnames.
Statues celebrate people. When we realise those people don't deserve celebrating we have a reponsibility to get rid of them.
When we realise those people don’t deserve celebrating we have a reponsibility to get rid of them.
But who decides that?
But who decides that
Anyone who thinks slavery is abhorrent
Which is everyone
Using horses for “crowd control” is stupid. I ride regularly and consider it unfair on the crowd, the horse and even the cop on it.
Bristol police have used their mounted officers for crowd control, usually footy matches, for many, many years. Their stables used to be a few yards along the road from where I went to college in Bower Ashton back in the early 70’s, and they’d been there a lot longer than that.
I frankly don’t really care what horse riding experience you have, it’ll never, ever match the experience and training that mounted police and their horses go through, the horses are repeatedly put through situations involving noise, crowd distractions, loud explosions, etc, just so they won’t spook.
I know exactly what horses are like, they’re flight animals, my brothers ex-wife and his wife now both own and ride horses, and I know just how little it takes to spook a horse, especially when approaching from behind on a bike, because I spooked one, or rather the rider, just by saying ‘hello, alright to come past?’, and I made the rider jump, and she spooked the horse; it’s a good thing I was still behind it!
Anyone who thinks slavery is abhorrent
Not what I meant. Who decides which statues stay and which go? Not just some bloke who profited off the slave trade. What about Cromwell, responsible for 1000's of deaths in Ireland? Churchill, because he was a bit of a racist? Clive of India, Wellington, what about every person from our imperial past who has a statue, who decides which stay and which go?
History decides which statues stay and which go.
Priori Patel has announced that the police should rightly track down and prosecute the vandals that pulled down the statue.....
"I'M SPARTACUS"
who decides which stay and which go?
who cares, are you that bothered? I know I'm not. Most of these statues were pit up by our Edwardian great grandparents, they're almost all totally irrelevant.
What about Cromwell, responsible for 1000’s of deaths in Ireland? Churchill, because he was a bit of a racist? Clive of India, Wellington, what about every person from our imperial past who has a statue, who decides which stay and which go?
You can * all those ** in the river too
What about Cromwell, responsible for 1000’s of deaths in Ireland?
Well the Irish certainly trashed their Cromwell statues after independence. Do you think that was a poor choice?
The statue of Jimmy Savile in Glasgow was taken down after he died - after he did so much charity work! Did you complain then? He is a part of our history, after all.
I ride regularly and consider it unfair on the crowd, the horse and even the cop on it.
Anyone who's been next to a police horse knows they aren't normal horses. They use them for a reason.
epicyclo
Subscriber
There is a certain irony seeing people in Scotland turning out to protest this in large numbers.Not that it isn’t something that should be abhorred, but where were the similar protests when a very similar death happened in Scotland?
You can say that about any of the deaths and to any of the protesters anywhere in the world, why did this particular one suddenly spark something.
It's just the straw that broke the camels back really. So I don't really see any irony, just a building up of frustration that has finally cracked, we/people should have been out on those other days, but these kinda things take a certain amount of momentum and time to get to a movement that is this powerful.. It's not like society encourages such things, it actively discourages.
The protests aren't just about a single death though. It's questioning the whole concept of institutionalised racism. From murder to the smallest act.
I also think this is a reaction to Lockdown and it’s consequences. I don’t think society is going to settle down any time soon.
An important point was made but I very much doubt the consequences of these actions were considered. Black Lives Matters, yes undoubtedly. But the 100s or 1000s of lives that now may be lost due to the Coronavirus spreading due to the complete lack of social distancing needs to be highlighted.
DD – I’ve just spent a very depressing 5 minutes reading the comments below the Evening Post article.
I've always drawn comfort from being on the opposite side of the argument to the people who comment on Bristol Post articles.
History decides which statues stay and which go.
How far back should the history go?
nickc
Subscriber
who decides which stay and which go?who cares, are you that bothered? I know I’m not. Most of these statues were pit up by our Edwardian great grandparents, they’re almost all totally irrelevant.
Exactly how I feel, these statues have no connection to me. I don't really see why slave traders should be honoured forever. Glasgow is full of them. I'd change the street names too.
History isn't changed by the presence or not of current day memorials. But in a society where we want to progress we should be able to choose monuments to reflect our direction. It shows we've learnt.
An important point was made but I very much doubt the consequences of these actions were considered. Black Lives Matters, yes undoubtedly. But the 100s or 1000s of lives that now may be lost due to the Coronavirus spreading due to the complete lack of social distancing needs to be highlighted.
VE day/beaches/schools/lockdown easing, etc.
Just thought I'd take a moment to celebrate the aesthetic beauty of the toppling of Edward Colston. I've watched it from 50 different angles and smiled or laughed every time, more than I have done for months.
The moment the statue begins to wobble is bewitching, accompanied by the sharp intake of breath from the protesters it becomes a moment when the earth shook. And what a face plant! Then, in the final act, as he disappears beneath the surface the breath leaves his body, bubbling away like a rancid fart. Comedy gold.
The irony of all this is that when they dredge the statue up they'll finaly have to build a Bristol museum of slavery in which to house it.
GlennQuagmire
MemberAn important point was made but I very much doubt the consequences of these actions were considered. Black Lives Matters, yes undoubtedly. But the 100s or 1000s of lives that now may be lost due to the Coronavirus spreading due to the complete lack of social distancing needs to be highlighted.
Not at all likely tbf; the actual numbers and duration mean that while the demos were definitely a higher risk activity, it's not likely to cause any significant change in numbers. It's bound to get blamed, but it's a drop in the bucket compared to the wider relaxation/collapse of lockdown.
Seosamh77,
Wasn't someone on here asking: 'But what are the demands?'
Just thought I’d take a moment to celebrate the aesthetic beauty of the toppling of Edward Colston. I’ve watched it from 50 different angles and smiled or laughed every time, more than I have done for months.
The moment the statue begins to wobble is bewitching, accompanied by the sharp intake of breath from the protesters it becomes a moment when the earth shook. And what a face plant! Then, in the final act, as he disappears beneath the surface the breath leaves his body, bubbling away like a rancid fart. Comedy gold.
The irony of all this is that when they dredge the statue up they’ll finaly have to build a Bristol museum of slavery in which to house it.
How about the proceed from slavery is that okay to keep?
How about all the unknown artefacts of cultural significant from other nations why not return them? Many of those artefacts are clearly not western culture put it this way.
Wasn’t someone on here asking: ‘But what are the demands?’
He looks like he does not know what he is doing as mayor. Yes, vote him out.
Fill yor boots chewkw, glad to see you're onboard!
chewkw
MemberHow about the proceed from slavery is that okay to keep?
How about all the unknown artefacts of cultural significant from other nations why not return them? Many of those artefacts are clearly not western culture put it this way.
It's a fair comment, and a comment that affects every facet of society if you follow it to it's natural conclusion.
Mate has just forwarded me a load of clips of the Great Bristol Face plant that his mother's been sending out.
She came to Bristol as part of the Windrush generation and is very happy today. She may be in her 80's but she's tweeting out videos like a Kardashian!
Fill yor boots chewkw, glad to see you’re onboard!
If you really want to wipe the slate clean perhaps start with the followings:
1. Everything that is non-British or Western should not be used at all unless given consent.
2. Even the statues of Gandhi or Mandela should not be displayed as it is offensive to see them standing in the square as some sort of tourists attractions.
3. Any symbols that depict non-British culture from colonial era should all be taken out.
4. All things built from the proceed of slavery should be replaced and be rebuilt ...
The list goes on ...
It’s a fair comment, and a comment that affects every facet of society if you follow it to it’s natural conclusion.
Yes, that is why I asked the question how far do you want to go back in history ...
I was actually thinking it goes deeper than that chewkw and would lead you to ultimately question the fundamental structures of the capitalist system.
was actually thinking it goes deeper than that chewkw and would lead you to question the fundamental structures of the capitalist system.
It goes back to civilisation.
All these were built with/by force labour/slaves from the day the pyramids, Great Wall of China, the Inca pyramids were built. Put it this way Great Wall of China was not built by willing patriotic volunteered labour.
chewkw
Member
It goes back to civilisation. From the day the pyramids, Great Wall of China, the Inca pyramids were built. Put it this way Great Wall of China was not built by patriotic volunteered labour.
Yeah, I know. I've been to Kelvingrove Museum numerous times, it's not hidden. But the appropriation of wealth to the detriment of others isn't really something that's ever ended, it's not just history.
There is no end to history, no perfect ideological solution that will right the wrongs of the past and bring paradise on earth for all eternity. Your questions Chewkw, are entirely reasonable.
The discussion around which statues or monuments should be removed is traditionally the domain of historians or self appointed guardians of history. It must be funny for them, arguing about the rights and wrongs as history happens in front of their eyes when they look out of the window and see old Eddie rolling down the street.
Who's next? Winston Churchill? I know he was given a Mohawk haircut a few years ago, and was redecorated recently but Id like to see his statue come down, if only for a while. That might open up the conversation about him running concentration camps in 1950's Kenya, where the men campaigning for independence were tortured either by having sand shoved up their arses with broomsticks, or having their balls smashed in with a cricket bats. As for the women....broken bottles... use your imagination, like the police did with the disappearing sand trick.
People riot when their voices aren’t heard.
Farage can finally throw off his cloak off and lead his true calling
https://twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/status/1269705670670114816?s=20
*Edit, lots of far right accounts are amplyfing the call to fight/stop the BLM protests
Tiny Tommeh is also very angry
https://twitter.com/AndyHa_/status/1269759628520435712?s=20
Next Saturday 2020 Endgame
https://twitter.com/zach2302/status/1269749846124171267?s=20
Ahh he’s got off that fishing boat then 🙂