MegaSack DRAW - This year's winner is user - rgwb
We will be in touch
I think it may be stretching it a bit to call an actual building "A plinth" but yeah, sugarbabes fo'shure. At least they haven't swept to the very borders of Europe raping pillaging and murdering as they went...
At least they haven’t swept to the very borders of Europe raping pillaging and murdering as they went…
Yet...
I think it may be stretching it a bit to call an actual building “A plinth” but yeah
'Fraid I ran out of vocab for a plinth 10x the size of my house.
If they state their criteria then it might turn out that we can move (say) 4 statues of little significance created after 1900 and everyone’s happy. If their criteria require 100,000 monuments moved dating back before Roman times that might be harder to do.
Here's another question I don't think you can answer.
Who do you think "they" are?
How about this monstrosity? It’s estimated he’s responsible for at least 40 million deaths…
Do you know anyone who is campaigning for it to be removed?
Who do you think “they” are?
The guys pulling the statue down.
The guys pulling the statue down.
You want a group of individual protesters (that you can't identify) who are objecting to a local statue to define specific criteria that will be used to evaluate the removal of every public statue in the country?
How about this monstrosity? It’s estimated he’s responsible for at least 40 million deaths…
I have no objection since he ruled over my ancestors but I suspect his descendants are not going to agree.
On another note a lot of advertisements on telly are also rather racists if you look at them carefully. In other part of the world our advertisements (same ads) are separated into different cultures/races and never mixed them together as that can be offensive to certain religions/race etc. In the UK the advertisements try to "social engineer" the perception of the people but what they don't realise is that they can be rather offensive to be honest. For example, old spice cologne advertisement ... yes, it is funny but many will see it differently. They should have same version of the ad but using different race rather than one race. Same with many other products ads.
In the UK the advertisements try to “social engineer” the perception of the people but what they don’t realise is that they can be rather offensive to be honest.
Do you have any specific examples of how UK adverts are racist?
Other than the Old spice one, which is apparently racist because the character is black rather than a huge range of different characters of all colours and religions.
Do you think for example the TV series Luther is racist, because they don't have a different colour actor playing the main character every week.
Was going to respond to Chewkw but thought better of it and pressed delete.
Better to imagine his words spoken by Janey Godley and mouthed by Sarah Cooper.
Farage...lol...he's back with his faux rage. I spotted my fave ever tweet about him recently:
<p lang="en" dir="ltr">If ever there’s shit to stir, guarantee there’s you holding the stick with glee.</p>— Seb Dance 🌹🇪🇺 (@SebDance) June 7, 2020
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
I just learned that the Kkk aren't classed as terrorists, they're only domestic extremists despite the hate and violence they perpetuate.
sugarbabes fo’shure
Are you forgetting that they changed members every fortnight? That’s a lot of statue removals right there.
In all seriousness I see nothing wrong with the pulling down of the Colston statue. A pretty powerful statement of people’s feelings.
I’d like to see this guy removed. Utter bloody menace
Sugababes
Well now, Keisha Buchanan has posted an emotional video today based on the Black Lives matter explaining how she feels betrayed by her portrayal via the media and record companies during the various iterations of the band.
However, I couldn't help struggling to see her point; she was clearly iterating a negative picture painted by the media but I'm struggling the align myself to the point she is trying to make, that it was because she is Black. I felt her descriptions of comments made about could have applied to anyone, but she says they quite clearly painted a picture of "...an angry Black Woman" which she maintained she is not (angry that is).
Its up on her Youtube channel, easy to find. I'd love someone else's opinion because I'm interested to know if my view is they way it is because I'm a middle aged ignorant white man. Frankly, I'm struggling with the education & boundaries of this one.
Maybe it is the point that Sterling made a couple of years ago. While taken individually the stories do not contain a racial element, ie "Footballer buys house for parents, what a good lad" or "footballer splashes the cash on flashy house for his mum" Over the years, white players got the former wording, black players latter, same story different twists one positive, one suggestively negative.
I dont care who the statue is. Its not important. Its the principle of a tiny minority vandalizing and destroying public property because they have decided to take offence at it
It’s perfectly clear that you don’t understand anything about Bristol, it’s history, it’s people, or their feelings about the history of their city. Therefore your opinion is worthless.
It’s up to protesters to spoon feed you with information available via a 5 second google search?
Pretty much yeah. Not much point in protesting without a clear statement of what you want.
I’m really having difficulty working out how to respond to that, without being insulting.
I’m willing to bet that Stone Henge wasn’t erected by completely willing labour
Yeah? I’m willing to bet that you’d lose. All the evidence suggests that all the monuments scattered around the British Isles, and there are likely hundreds of them, were constructed by entire communities over very extended periods of time, often involving huge feasts and celebrations, the construction methods used were sophisticated and needed teamwork to succeed.
Agree with countzero
Also look up about the fen henges, huge structures made over many generations and used for various purposes
OK, for the 3rd time for those at the back. BLM is an unorganised collective of groups and individuals
This is what scares them the most. Do a little research and you’ll see that any group which organises itself without leaders, memberships or formal structures are dismissed as anarchists, mobs, terrorists or whatever other hysterical label they can think of. The fact that people can effectively organise themselves without formal hierarchies and rules threatens the entire basis of the political system and the power held by those that control it. They just can’t get their head around the fact that people can organise themselves around collective principles or aims, and so they assume there’s a hidden group of actors with malevolent intent pulling the strings.
Exactly the same as ‘Antifa’. The ridiculous halfwit occupying the White House throne keeps ranting about ‘Antifa’, going so far as to labelling them as a dangerous terrorist organisation, directing the FBI to investigate them, blithely ignorant of the fact that he doesn’t have the power to do any such thing, and that ‘Antifa’ just doesn’t exist in any shape or form that can be considered an organisation! It’s not even really a loose coalition, it’s just a global mass of people who all agree on one thing - fascists, neo-nazis, white suprematists, etc are people with abhorrent ideas who need to be confronted about their vile ideologies and shown that they won’t be allowed to have things all their own way.
Here’s hoping that, come November, that message gets through to Angry Tinkerbell.
Blum funding: https://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/aug/16/black-lives-matter-cashes-100-million-liberal-foun/
That’s a cushy fund, weather you like it or not.
On the topic of antifa, they may seem disorganised, but they are not, the use invitation only Discord servers for communication. For anyone that doesn’t know discord, it’s like a WhatsApp group on steroid and voice channels.
In addition it seems their actions vary from country to country. In Stockholm they mainly come out to protest/beat-up against nazis (according to a Swedish friend). In the US its not that simple and I wouldn’t be surprised if they had caused the escalation of the protests. Calling themselves anti fascists it’s a smart of way of indirectly smearing anyone that they oppose, since they are anti-fascists.
baboonz
MemberOn the topic of antifa, they may seem disorganised, but they are not, the use invitation only Discord servers for communication.
So, as organised as your average online gamers then? Scary stuff!
On the topic of antifa, they may seem disorganised, but they are not...In addition it seems their actions vary from country to country.
So they are organised, but also disorganised?
So, as organised as your average online gamers then? Scary stuff!
This just shows your age and ignorance.
It’s also were young neonazis/racists like to chill, guess that’s not concerning either? In the last couple of years the use of discord has exploded. I myself am part of 7 different discord servers all for one game.
It also shows your the generalised hypocrisy since I’ve seen in this forum more than once people getting bent up about 4chan, and more specifically /pol/, an outdated more than decade old image board.
baboonz
MemberIt’s also were young neonazis/racists like to chill, guess that’s not concerning either? In the last couple of years the use of discord has exploded. I myself am part of 7 different discord servers all for one game.
So are you not concerned that you're rubbing shoulders with all these neonazis?
Honestly I can't tell if your posts are a joke
Is Antifa some sort of code word for tin foil hat?
babs - why not express your views in a form of the english language most of us can understand?
Your insults are ignorant and unnecessary; they do not help whatever line you're pushing.
Might be helpful if you sense checked before posting.
Wartime statue of Stalin? I’d vote to keep at 80 years distance with some text explaining about Stalin.
What if it was his former ally, Adolph somethingorother? Hilter? Sure, Stalin never managed the figures of the Reich or Leopold but 6m isn't exactly the sort of thing people forget quickly. Well, seemingly...
If antifa's discords are anything like the ones I'm on it'll be full of shitchat, weird porn and memes nobody under the age of 30 understands. Not got a great rep in Denmark from what I've heard.
In Stockholm they mainly come out to protest/beat-up against nazis (according to a Swedish friend).
Goodness, I wasn't expecting to be subject to such a torrent of science.
That Brizzle thang..
I was initially vaguely concerned about whitewashing but putting it in the mshed with the placards an vids seems a great idea of preserving it and the symbolism of it going worldwide should do greater good than the ‘vandalism’ act that some are banging on about(fb).
It’s got way more historic value now than it ever did.
(Which also raise’s the question about why it wasn’t whacked in a museum Years ago tbh)
I also liked banksys idea of using it in a statue with the protesters pulling it down.
Yeah? I’m willing to bet that you’d lose. All the evidence suggests that all the monuments scattered around the British Isles, and there are likely hundreds of them, were constructed by entire communities over very extended periods of time, often involving huge feasts and celebrations, the construction methods used were sophisticated and needed teamwork to succeed.
Doesn't mean the people who built it weren't forced labour.
Archaeologists in Britain tend to have quite a rose tinted view of our ancient past. Probably because they are all hand wring liberals and can't imagine that anybody might do anything nasty.
EDIT: Until of course we get into historical times when everybody suddenly gets very nasty for some reason.
So are you not concerned that you’re rubbing shoulders with all these neonazis?
Honestly I can’t tell if your posts are a joke
is that what you take from the post? My point was that discord channels whilst being for gaming, can also be used for very nefarious reasons. Weather you like it or not.
Also on the topic as your average gamers, well gamers are people, the columbine shooters where people, who also happened to be gamers. I don’t understand what gamers haas to do with anything but you brought it up.
I despise noeonazism and communism equally. Two ideologies that ruined the west and killed millions. However, being active in the internet means that you get exposed to both all the time.
Goodness, I wasn’t expecting to be subject to such a torrent of science
I thought anecdotical evidence was the STW way. If it bothers you that much ignore it. I was merely pointing out, that the actions and organisation of antifa vary from country to country.
Yeah? I’m willing to bet that you’d lose.
Nah, there are Neolithic gang neck rings (four linked together) found at votive deposits. Slaves were probs used as offerings and cheap labour taken in local disputes. One would like to think they weren't (as would I ) but the evidence is stacked against us I'm afraid.
Edit: Just checked some sources, and at least Francis Pryor agrees with me...phew.
Is Antifa some sort of code word for tin foil hat?
No just an imbecil middle class inbred child between a SHARP and an anarchist.
Terminology or English? I apologise if the posts were a bit broken.
Statute of Columbus going into the water in Byrd Park in Richmond. I have to say, I'm not getting tired of this. Also I'm am quite enjoying the use of Police language to describe what happens to the statues.
"Statue resisted, and force had to be used" etc etc
One would like to think they weren’t (as would I ) but the evidence is stacked against us I’m afraid.
I am not an etymologist but … the concepts of slavery, rape , warfare , murder etc. exist in all indo-European languages, so they have been around since at least 4000BC when proto-indo-European emerged somewhere on the steppes.
Humans are the current apex animal on this planet. They are not nice.
I wonder if there are any languages where these concepts don't exist?
Robert E Lee next?
Nah, there are Neolithic gang neck rings (four linked together) found at votive deposits. Slaves were probs used as offerings and cheap labour taken in local disputes. One would like to think they weren’t (as would I ) but the evidence is stacked against us I’m afraid.
This.
Plus we know high status people contemporary with Stone Henge lived with low status people who were unrelated. So there were at least servants. They certainly weren't paid in money because there wasn't any, so maybe they were paid in food and clothing? It's already looking like slavery. Would those people be free to go? Generally accepted as fact that Slavery will have started as soon as people started farming in the Neolithic and continued... ...well it's still going on today.
I am not an etymologist but … the concepts of slavery, rape , warfare , murder etc. exist in all indo-European languages, so they have been around since at least 4000BC when proto-indo-European emerged somewhere on the steppes.
Humans are the current apex animal on this planet. They are not nice.
Not finished it yet, but slowly ploughing through The Better Angels Of Our Nature (it's a big read!),which suggests that, contrary to popular belief, we are and have been getting less nasty as time goes on. This thread is maybe a case in point - twenty years ago, probably no-one in the UK would have heard of George Floyd. 🙁
They certainly weren’t paid in money because there wasn’t any, so maybe they were paid in food and clothing? It’s already looking like slavery.
That seems a bit of a stretch of logic.
Baboonz, you've made a spelling mistake, or are you being passive aggressive?
that the actions and organisation of antifa vary from country to country.
That's because Antifa, like BLM is an unorganised collective of groups and individuals.
I'm not sure how such funds would be distributed.
Antifa tend to be Anonymous and don't lobby, preferring protest and direct action (depending on the issue). They usually have counter protests against the EDL/SDL or support other organised socialist marches.
The socialist campaigners were asked to leave the BLM protests for hijacking the issues. POC means People of Colour, not communism.
PoC rarely come out to protest in the UK, instead a few are invited to sit on company boards and government committees; in an attempt to show that we (white people) are inclusive. There are various charities and individuals which provide community support who also lobby, writing lots and lots of emails to no evail. They will only take to the streets when there has been a serious miscarriage of justice, even then it was mainly Oyinbo who were out.
If there is formalised funding like that then why aren't they supporting Sheku Bayoh or my institutional racism case? It's only £60k to step into court for human rights or public law cases.
Humans are the current apex animal on this planet. They are not nice.
...and where did all the Neanderthals go? (I'm blaming the badgers.)
@farie
I think you have illustrated my point, actions are different depending on the country.
For example, in Spain my parents didn’t even know about them specifically, since they operate similarly to every other far left mob.
The socialist campaigners were asked to leave the BLM protests for hijacking the issues. POC means People of Colour, not communism.
That’s great news, and somewhat supports this report from a police chief in St. Louis:
That and watching the trailer on Cabrini-green makes for a truly depressive morning.
A slightly different take on public monuments:
You're still not getting my point though, even in individual countries Antifa aren't an organisation. The reason they're similar to left wing groups is because they consist of left wing groups, amongst others.
Maybe it would be easier for me to to describe them as the anarchic (anarchy doesn't mean violent) alternative to the Alt-Right. The Alt-Right are a collective of groups and individuals, such as the KKK, Proud Boys, Golden Dawn, EDL and individuals such as Alex Jones, PewDiePie, Jordan Peterson and Tommy Robinson. Whilst they have similar ideals, they are not one organisation.
is that what you take from the post? My point was that discord channels whilst being for gaming, can also be used for very nefarious reasons. Weather you like it or not.
I feel that trying to imply something about the nature or character of Antifa groups from the fact they use Discord makes about as much sense as trying to imply something about their nature or character because they use phones, or the Internet.
I read a reasonably interesting article about Antifa a day or two ago, but I can't find it now. It was of the opinion that Antifa groups tend to be small and rarely if at all organise beyond the local level (rigid organisation being antithetical to the punk culture from which they arose), but the term has been picked up by Trump and others to become the new term for "scary violent leftists come to destroy our peaceful democracy" boogeymen.
I talked about discord channels, because it’s an easy way to communicate and organise without being visible. They are widely used in gaming, because they are extremely effective at organising and communicating, and it’s free. It negates the need of physically congregating at a given place to discuss ideas.
They are no where near as organised as a terrorist cell, but I don’t think I have implied that? As I said before, the numbers they get implies some form of organisation, this doesn’t necessarily mean top-down military style way of coordination.
Organised as a local level is still organised. How hard would it be for those local level groups to talk to each other and coordinate? In this day an age, it’s almost stupidly easy.
This however does not mean that Trump overreaction was warranted.
Says something else about violence and antifa. Whilst the victim was no saint either, the perpetrator could have killed him, yet no one in the mob tried to stop him or apprehend him.
I feel that trying to imply something about the nature or character of Antifa groups from the fact they use Discord makes about as much sense as trying to imply something about their nature or character because they use phones, or the Internet.
Me too. Good job literally nobody has tried to. His point was that the Antifa diaspora coordinate via private Discord servers. I don't think that's a particularly new thing (barring the medium perhaps) nor does it put it at odds with them consisting of anarchic collectives. Also, some right wing groups do the same! Whodathunkit?
PewDiePie
Whilst I'm well aware of his output I think that's a stretch to put him as a figurehead of the Alt-Right.
Demonizing attitudes of the past. How pointless.
Can you look at the people who these statues are of as being partly responsible to bringing Britain to greatness during its years of empire.
So without them, or that attitude, the UK would not be the country it was or is today. And I would strongly disagree that the UK is racist,not the people nor the politics.
I would say there was a feudal attitude prevails, kind of we're all in it.
Interesting point you make, maybe the behaviour of antifa per country is a reflection of the different far-left wing groups it represents?
I guess at this point it really is, what degree of civil unrest do you agree with.
Antifa is a slogan, nothing more. Making it more than it is is just disingenuous pish. But crack on...
dyna-ti
Member
Demonizing attitudes of the past. How pointless.
Aye we should never learn from history. 😆
Aye we should never learn from history. 😆
If we have moved on from them and as a society admitted they are wrong, it does seem like a fruitless exercise.
I would argue that if a person was truly evil for their time, they would not have had statues. However I am probably wrong.
Someone pointed out as to why not have Hitler statues, well his actions were recognised as evil at the time, and rightly so.
I am very much 50:50 about this statues issue, however I cannot agree with a mob bringing it down.
baboonz
MemberI would argue that if a person was truly evil for their time, they would not have had statues. However I am probably wrong.
And naive.
I am very much 50:50 about this statues issue, however I cannot agree with a mob bringing it down.
Tbh, i'm not over connected to the statue issue. I think how much it has taken over this thread is a bit of a distraction from the point.
But needless to say I'm not fussed for them in the slightest. I have no connection to them or what they represent (which isn't history btw, they represent a glorification of history, they don't tell the truth nor the wider history of these isles. I think can think of plenty better to put in their place that will tell a better story..).
Can you look at the people who these statues are of as being partly responsible to bringing Britain to greatness during its years of empire.
Of course you can and that's what they are supposed to represent. What people are taking issue with is how they achieved this.
And I would strongly disagree that the UK is racist,not the people nor the politics.
As a presumably white person I'll take as much notice of that as your thoughts on Mongolian tapestry in the 4th century. I wouldn't say you are qualified to make that statement. But FWIW, the people and politics most assuredly are.
And I would strongly disagree that the UK is racist,not the people nor the politics.
Can you expand on this? Seems strange to me.
Archaeologists in Britain tend to have quite a rose tinted view of our ancient past. Probably because they are all hand wring liberals and can’t imagine that anybody might do anything nasty.
Lindow man, strangled, beaten, throat cut: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lindow_Man
Suspected massacre of women and children at Fin Cop: https://www.archaeology.co.uk/articles/news/massacre-at-fin-cop.htm
Ridgeway Hill Burial Pit, 54 Vikings messily executed by Saxons: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ridgeway_Hill_Viking_burial_pit
Hundreds of defleshed bodies at Ham Hill, some believed to be as the result of violence, rather than ritual: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/archaeology/exclusive-slaughtered-bodies-stripped-of-their-flesh-a-gruesome-glimpse-of-iron-age-massacre-at-uk-s-8798680.html
etc, etc
Those hand-wringing liberal archaeologists, eh?
Aye we should never learn from history.
But we already have 😕
Are you suggesting we now remove all references to it, to that time. As in a century from now it will have past from memory, like it never happened at all.
O
Can you expand on this? Seems strange to me.
Well no not really. That appears down to the individual interpretation.
And I would strongly disagree that the UK is racist,not the people nor the politics.
Of course the UK is racist. I would be amazed if any country wasn't racist (i.e had a lot of racist people as residents)
If you don't believe the people are racist I will walk you around my neighbourhood and introduce you to a few of them
If you don't believe the politics is racist take a look at the shit the Home office has been up to over the last 10 years. Take a look at how Brexit was centred around immigration based on immigrants = bad people.
Changing the attitudes and behaviours of people is never going to happen though (these are not rational people) and a few protests and pulling down a statue are not going to do it if fact it will probably make them feel even more strongly...
Are you suggesting we now remove all references to it, to that time.
No one is, A statue isn't history, (especially one as whitewashed as Colston's was) we learn History from books, those books are still there, Colston hasn't been erased from history just because one statue has been removed.
Edit, I would even go as far as to say some of these statues are the opposite of history. Colston's (for example) was erected by Victorians in an attempt to cast him as an heroic benefactor, to erase all that inconvenient profiteering from Slavery...
If we have moved on from them and as a society admitted they are wrong, it does seem like a fruitless exercise.
I agree with that.
I would argue that if a person was truly evil for their time, they would not have had statues. However I am probably wrong.
I agree with that too.
Someone pointed out as to why not have Hitler statues, well his actions were recognised as evil at the time, and rightly so.
Yes, he is a recent evil. Imagine if he had won his statue would be everywhere.
I am very much 50:50 about this statues issue, however I cannot agree with a mob bringing it down.
Nope. I don't agree to bring down those statues at all. Even Genghis Khan the ruler of my ancestors ...
Are you suggesting we now remove all references to it, to that time.
Take the statues down, put them in museums with detailed contextual displays telling the whole story, including why they've been removed from their original public display, not just a plaque.
The toppling of Edward Colton has placed him more firmly in the history books than leaving him there would have done. This is what makes a nonsense of those suggesting that removing statues is removing them from history.
Can you expand on this? Seems strange to me.
Well no not really. That appears down to the individual interpretation.
I see, so all the times people come up against racism its open to interpretation, and it might not be racist.... Not a terribly convincing point of view, makes you seem like a racism denier, what should we call these people?
The toppling of Edward Colton has placed him more firmly in the history books than leaving him there would have done. This is what makes a nonsense of those suggesting that removing statues is removing them from history.
Nope. It is the way the statue was removed. I disagree with that action.
On another point, the way they went about it was a bit like "Cultural Revolution" with the rise of Chairman Mao ... well he got sucked in further and further when things got out of hand.
The common thread between all the statues under scrutiny is their connection to either slavery or brutal colonial ouppression.
B**locks to your Stonehenge and Attila the Hun piffle.
The fact that these persons did so much to shape the way Britain developed only serves to emphasise the connection between the society we live in, how it was made and What underpins it.
dyna-ti
Member
Aye we should never learn from history.But we already have 😕
Are you suggesting we now remove all references to it, to that time. As in a century from now it will have past from memory, like it never happened at all.
Statues have nothing to do with the preservation of history. Books are infinitely better. Documentaries are good too. Grandiose statues, are well....a bit shit at story telling.
Statues are not guardians of history.
I would be amazed if any country wasn’t racist
Possibly confusing nationalism here possibly 🙂 😕
The common thread between all the statues under scrutiny is their connection to either slavery or brutal colonial ouppression.
How about Rome in Italy?
Statues have nothing to do with the preservation of history.
Are you referring to all statues in the world?
On another point, the way they went about it was a bit like “Cultural Revolution” with the rise of Chairman Mao
Are you serious (rhetorical) It's literally the opposite of what the CPC did. A giant monolithic state totally erasing the cultural references of the past...vs locals removing one egregious statue.
Are you referring to all statues in the world?
Newsflash, Statues are not History. They may be "from the past" that still doesn't make them History. History's the study of what people did, Statues come under Sculpture... possibly architecture (at a push)
Are you serious (rhetorical) It’s literally the opposite of what the CPC did. A giant monolithic state totallyerasing the cultural references of the past…vs a local group removing one egregious statue.
As I said previously my grand uncle was a cultural revolutionist and they would destroy all "idols" regardless. It all started with a few but then as the group pressure got stronger and more of the young ones got suck into the ideology and there is no stopping. Even the leader Chairman Mao got suck in and was unable to stop them. Now I am just trying to see which politicians got suck in.
Newsflash, Statues are not History. They may be “from the past” that still doesn’t make them History. History’s the study of what people did, Statues come under Sculpture… possibly architecture (at a push)
Is the statue of the Buddha a sculpture? Jesus Christ a sculpture?
Newsflash, Statues are not History.
Beginning to wonder if this is ever going to get through to some people. 😀
This whole statue thing seems to be an unintended consequence. This thread (and much of the media) is now debating statues rather than debating issues of race and how they can be fixed. I suppose it is much easier to talk shit about statues...
Beginning to wonder if this is ever going to get through to some people.
Oh yeah, they get it, it upsets their view of the world, but they totally get it.
This whole statue thing seems to be an unintended consequence. This thread (and much of the media) is now debating statues rather than debating issues of race and how they can be fixed. I suppose it is much easier to talk shit about statues…
Yes, unintended but when situation got out of hands that is what happens.
It looks like it is spreading ... BBC news - Gone with the Wind
The common thread between all the statues under scrutiny is their connection to either slavery or brutal colonial suppression predicated specifically on racist ideas that were birthed in the Enlightenment in order to justify slavery and make a bogus scientific claim for white supremacy.
There.... Fixed it for myself.
The Industrial Revolution shaped the modern world in which we live. The Industrial Revolution began not it Telford, It began with the Trans Atlantic slave trade.
This thread (and much of the media) is now debating statues rather than debating issues of race and how they can be fixed
I agree and disagree. Yes we're talking about statues, but we're talking about what they represent, and if that gets people talking about the past and slavery, it's all to the good. You can still (I think) debate racism through the medium of statues.
I think facing up to our colonial legacy is absolutely part of dealing with racism in the UK
Glorifying what at best was a mixed bag of achievements & at worst genocide is shameful
That appears down to the individual interpretation.
Yes, usually the person on the recieving end. Glad we cleared that up. Now, as a (again presumably) white person in a majority white society can you see how that may colour your views on this matter?