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Just fitted the winter tyres to both cars 😈
Do you live in the north pole? I find the idea of seasonal tyres bizarre unless you live somewhere that suffers from extremes of weather. Do you?
jekkyl - Member
Do you live in the north pole? I find the idea of seasonal tyres bizarre unless you live somewhere that suffers from extremes of weather. Do you?
Good job that objective evidence shows that winter tyres perform better than summer tyres at below 7dgC.
summer? tyres? how does one assess which tyres are on your vehicle currently? my tyres do not have any markings of either summer or winter.
about to sort this out, too.
I don't live *in* the north pole, either - a bit north of geoffj possibly.
No snow flake on the sidewall means it's a Summer tyre.
I thought if there is a snowflake on the side of the tyre, it means it's being driven by a Millenial 😉
[quote=jekkyl ]I find the idea of seasonal tyres bizarre unless you live somewhere that suffers from extremes of weather.
I don't. That's why I have winter tyres fitted all year.
Two of my winter tyres (conti 850s) were worn when I swapped over a week or two back and I’ve gone for Michelin Crossclimates to replace them... well see how it goes. Ever so worth it IMO.
if we'd had a snowflake here for the last 4 years, coincidentally since I bought a fat bike, I'd be worried
Shirley there's better ways of using your money. How much does it cost to get the tyres changed over and how much for the tyres? a lot of expense just for a bit more grip when it's wet, just drive slower?! *shrugs*
[quote=jekkyl ]Shirley there's better ways of using your money. How much does it cost to get the tyres changed over and how much for the tyres?
I don't change mine over, so £zero
Since I fitted my winter tyres 3 years ago we've barely had any snow or ice. I get that they provide more grip in the cold (<7degC), but at my old man speeds that's not of a concern.
Just moved to the top of a hill that isn't on a bus route. Mrs J had a minor bambi on ice moment in the 5mm of snow we had last year in the doblo, so it's more about maintaining marital harmony than anything else.
Oh sweet mother of God, we've started this argument again
I'll get in quick with "winter tyres are not the same as snow tyres"
Jekyll - try some. You won’t think it’s stupid after that.
I drive a lot with work. Got a set of wheels with summer tyres and a set with winter tyres. Takes 30-40 mins to swap wheels when need be.
Realistically, the winter tyres are a better compromise if I were only able to have one set of wheels.
As it is, I only fit the summer wheels out of vanity when the weather is warm/dry enough as they’re prettier..... 😳
Always used to swap my tyres over as well. Used BFG AT's during the summer then BFG Muds during the winter.
Two sets of wheels. 20 min job with a farm jack.
When I lived in the uk my cars had high performance summer tyres all year round.
Now I live in Switzerland and we have to change our tyres to winters after Oct, I can say that they make a huge difference when it gets colder.
You don’t need snow to make them worthwhile, just colder, anything under 10c and you can notice the improvement.
Car is a 4wd if that makes any difference.
We have metal spikes on our car tyres what do we win?
We have winters on our cars almost all year now. Steep road in wet can be exciting and with ice/snow/frost much better traction. Both awd cars as well.
And £40 to swap tyres twice a year which is cheaper than a set of wheels
I've just fitted CrossClimate+ to my car, seems sensible particularly when travelling oop north for Crimbo and stuff (and to the continent over the winter period).
Winter tyres not on the MTB yet - spikes !! 😀
Dont worry, now I've swapped the 4x4 for a FWD we'll have a proper winter.
During the time with the 4x4, didnt have one snowy winter.
Well I have have metal studded tyres fitted to my car at the moment and they will stay on until the end of March and then I will have summer tyres fitted. Summer tyres are much better in wet conditions, i.e. the summer
and its already proper winter here
Surely winter tyres are just a softer compound.
Winter tyres are a softer compound but also have sipes and a much deeper tread from new.
I used to run Nokian winters on my FWD 90hp estate, they were excellent and optimised for our kind of winter (slush, rain, cold) rather than full on deep snow and ice.
I now have a RWD estate with 500Nm torque and 265/35/R18 winter tyres are a little pricey, as are some spare AMG alloys to put them on so not looking forward to any snow/ice. I already have the traction control flashing away pulling out of roundabouts and kicking down the gears at over 50mph. Current tyres are Pirelli P-Zero which were excellent on the Evora on lanes with wet leaves but that had less torque.
If you keep the vehicle a while the costbof the tyres is insignificant as the wear on both sets evens out. I had a set for my Skoda and over the three summers/ four winters I had the car and 40000 miles I didn't have to buy any new tyres. I then sold the tyres and wheels for £200
You just have pay up front an expense you would have anyway.
And as has been mentioned above, the difference in cold weather is noticible
We have metal spikes on our car tyres what do we win?
Either a surfmat ice driving cup or an audition for the next Mad Max reboot?
After the big snow of 2009 / 2010 I bought a snow shovel. It's in the loft now having barely seen the light of day since I got it. 😥
What time said +1
The grip difference is noticeable in damp and cool conditions and I've been left thinking they saved me once last year when the car Infront miss read some lights and stopped on a dual carriageway. I stopped but slowly as abs worked hard, car behind had no chance but thankfully went for the hard shoulder and sailed past
I swapped the RWD van for a 4x4 negating any changes by anyone else from 4x4 to FWD.
However I also got a RWD teeny car of rapidity... so that may cancel out my change of works vehicles.
This is all too confusing!
On the more pertinent point of tyre choice, when my current summer tyres wear down I will probably stick All Seasons on, since they do the job well ooop North.
I knew it was time to put them on my car when I nearly had it sideways on the roundabout going to work on a cold morning last week.
Couple that with an interesting trip out of an icy Cairngorm car park in an E46 330i a couple of years ago has taught me all I need to be persuaded that winter tyres are a great idea in Scotland, if only to traverse the col du Dunfermline confidently.
A couple of winters ago, I got stuck at the bottom of a gentle incline when there was half a cm of snow. This was in a 1 series with Michelin Pilot Sport tyres (great in the dry, pretty awful in the damp and useless in snow). Winter tyres didn’t just make the car driveable, it made it great.
I bought some winter wheels (complete with tyres, I think they were about £350) and ever since then, I put them on in October and off again in April. Tyre wear is shared between my two sets so it doesn’t actually work out more expensive. I guess I could sell the wheels (if not the tyres) when I’m finished with them. Of course we haven’t had any proper snow since that first winter, c’est la vie.
I live up a hill near Sheffield. So not exactly too far north but we seem to get a fair amount of snow.
jekkyl - Member
Shirley there's better ways of using your money. How much does it cost to get the tyres changed over and how much for the tyres? a lot of expense just for a bit more grip when it's wet, just drive slower?! *shrugs*
🙄
Cross-climate tyres are optimised for lower general temperatures and cool wet weather, but will work perfectly well in the average summers we get in the UK, you replace the existing tyres with them when needed, so no extra cost other than the difference between the types of tyre. I have an old 110ps Octavia TDi, and on cold wet days it’s not unusual to have the traction light flash on some road surfaces and junctions when pulling away.
But I guess you’d be happier if they re-introduced a bloke walking in front with a red flag, to discourage drivers from driving at the posted limits in the wet...
jekkyl - Member
Shirley there's better ways of using your money. How much does it cost to get the tyres changed over and how much for the tyres? a lot of expense just for a bit more grip when it's wet, just drive slower?! *shrugs*
Having read the handbook (amazing, eh?) for my car - their instructions for driving in slippery conditions are simple and concise - put winter tyres on. Having nearly been stuck in a muddy car park earlier this year (sighs -
German car [tick], rear wheel drive [tick], 7 speed auto [tick]) I've replaced the OEM Hankook Ventus S1 evo2 with Michelin CrossClimate+. I will find out soon if they're any good, but it seemed to me that for the same money a bit of extra confidence during the winter period was worth it.
Ours were fitted Monday, after it had snowed in the morning. I'm expecting a heatwave now 8)
You don’t need snow to make them worthwhile, just colder, anything under 10c and you can notice the improvement.
Really? Unless you're Lewis Hamilton I have my doubts. Sure once it gets close to freezing the compound difference would start to be noticeable but 5-10c I highly doubt it.
Personally I just use four season tyres in the UK (cross climates at the moment), it doesn't get cold enough (at least where I am in the SW) to warrant changing to winter tyres and decent four season tyres aren't really a compromise these days over 'summer' tyres in warmer temps.
The crossover is designed to be 7c. You may have your doubts but all the evidence is to the contrary.Unless you're Lewis Hamilton I have my doubts. Sure once it gets close to freezing the compound difference would start to be noticeable but 5-10c I highly doubt it.
Having bought a new 4wd Estate in March I'm almost looking forward to the original tyres wearing out so I can put crossclimates on 🙂 With 13k miles on it so far, it will be going through this winter on the OEM ones though...
It's not my doubts that track testing and measuring stopping distances etc. has shown a difference starts around 7c I'm debating that the average (or even above average) driver would start to notice at that temperature (based on feel in real world use).
Ah its the annual summer/winter tyre thread.
I haven't been one over by the marketing crap yet. Surly a summer tyre is better over 7 deg so are you all changing your tyres part way to work in the morning 🙄
I just carry some snow socks in the boot for if it ever snows.
geoffj - Member
I knew it was time to put them on my car when I nearly had it sideways on the roundabout going to work on a cold morning last week
Yeah anything is better than having to slow down and drive at the appropriate speed for the conditions and road layout, right?
Seriously - how fast do you have to be going round a roundabout to 'nearly have it sideways' in a modern car?! Winter tyres aren't going to save you there, bud.
You may have your doubts but all the evidence is to the contrary.
Two pages and no evidence, just anecdotal stories!
You don’t need snow to make them worthwhile, just colder, anything under 10c and you can notice the improvement.Really? Unless you're Lewis Hamilton I have my doubts. Sure once it gets close to freezing the compound difference would start to be noticeable but 5-10c I highly doubt it.
I have plenty of mountains just moments from my house. It’s roughly -10 colder when I’m 1000 meter higher up so easy to experience the effect of temp change on performance in a short space of time.
Seriously - how fast do you have to be going round a roundabout to 'nearly have it sideways' in a modern car?! Winter tyres aren't going to save you there, bud.
OK, so a slight exaggeration, but it was a cold wet morning, maybe around 2 degrees, and there was a noticeable lack of grip. That in an AWD archetypal STW German estate car too 😯
Two pages and no evidence, just anecdotal stories!
Evidence of what?
Seriously - how fast do you have to be going round a roundabout to 'nearly have it sideways' in a modern car?! Winter tyres aren't going to save you there, bud.
A good splash of oil or diseasel will do that nicely for you.
M+S marked tyres on the Motorhome all year.
Change the car tyres in mid-november when midday temperatures are around 5 and switch them back when I can smell them overheating in the spring.
Also ties in when I'm regularly heading into the chilly, snowbound north at the weekends rather than the temparate rainy, midge infested north at the weekends. Though since I'm near dundee that's basically a trip out of town
I know some will dismiss the following as merely anecdotal, but here goes anyway.
On the Skoda Superb 4x4 that I mentioned a few posts ago, the original fit tyres were Conti Sport Contact 5 225/40 R18. The winter tyres on Steel wheels were Bridgestone Blizzak Lm32 205/55 R16. The first winter I had the tyres I left the standard wheels and tyres, which by then had done approximately 4500 miles so had plenty of tread, on a bit late and experienced a few quite cold and damp days. On the poorly surfaced and generally ungritted small roads round where I live it was noticable that the fronts in particular were squirming about a bit even when being driven gently, made worse by mud etc that inevitably seems to get spread over such roads in the winter.
When I did put the winter tyres/wheels on, there was a noticable change in grip levels and reduced squirm on such country roads when it was cold even though in theory the narrower and taller tyres should reduce the turn in feel.
On straight, well gritted roads there was not any real appreciable change in normal driving, except that the winters were more comfortable due to the higher sidewalls.
So, in short, I am not Lewis Hamilton and I can tell the difference in gentle driving
So If I lived in more urban areas and/or spent all my time on the motorways then it might be the case I wouldn't bother. But I don't and also live on top of a hill on short section of an umade road so I do believe that it is worth it.
Two pages and no evidence, just anecdotal stories!
Tyres have to pass a test to carry the mountain snowflake symbol, some details [url=
Real world experience. Same day, same car, same hill. Tried to exit driveway, no traction. Managed to reverse back up drive (cobbled driveway which was gritted heavily). Swapped to winters (same size wheels - spare set, i was being lazy). Drove straight out and up hill. Golf R awd.
Living North i find all weather/snowflake tyres much more predictable in colder and wetter conditions, upside is in snow they actually work better.
I use Michelin Cross Climates all year.
They are significantly better in the wet at any temperature, which is reason enough to run them in Scotland, traction is excellent.
The fact they work well in snow is a bonus but the reason I use them is mainly for how well they cope with day-to-day driving.
I won't go back to summer tyres
[i] how well they cope with day-to-day driving.[/i]
Not sure what else they'd do... 😆
Quite fancy some winter tyres myself as new house is comparatively high. Car is a low power FWD car and storage is an issue for spare wheels.
Would only putting winter ones on the fronts be a fools errand?
For those people who say drive slower - I guess you also mean stop slower in an emergency? No ta 🙂
Shirley there's better ways of using your money. How much does it cost to get the tyres changed over and how much for the tyres?
Well it doesn't cost more after the initial outlay, because you wear the same amount of rubber off each year, but spread across two sets of tyres. And I change them myself so no cost. But they last ages anyway.
Would only putting winter ones on the fronts be a fools errand?
What do you think? Would you like to have far more grip on one end of the car than the other?
the original fit tyres were Conti Sport Contact 5 225/40 R18.
The tyres that come on cars aren't the same as the aftermarket versions of the same tyres. They are crap and have really hard compounds. Just something to bear in mind.
Two pages and no evidence, just anecdotal stories!
Search youtube for summer vs winter tyre tests. Plenty of them.
Straw poll on winter / all season tyre owners, what are you using?
About to have tyres done, so WWSTD?
What do you think? Would you like to have far more grip on one end of the car than the other?
Works alright on my MTB...
Depends on the manufacturer/model. Further down the pecking order you go, the more likely you are to get "special" tyres.The tyres that come on cars aren't the same as the aftermarket versions of the same tyres. They are crap and have really hard compounds. Just something to bear in mind.
The sport contact tyres I mentioned were not the original fit ones-they were replaced at a local tyre fitter when I bought the car and had come from the well known huge tyre place just north of Winchester. So unless they were peddalling 'crap'........
Molgrips, the clue is in the name... The cheap/OEM versions are the 2, the 5 is the AM version.
The 2 grips just as well (afaik it has the same ratings for wet grip at least) but wears down quite fast compared to the 5.
The crossover is designed to be 7c. You may have your doubts but all the evidence is to the contrary.
But at what temperature do they work best?? I'm assuming that there is a gradual increase in effectiveness from 7 degrees down to a certain point not a constant improvement at every temp below 7?
If 'winter tyres' grip better, why not just leave them on your car all year round?
& if so
Why not just make all tyres 'winter'? - why reduce the level of grip in the summer.
Winter tyres wear faster in warm temps, especially on higher speeds.
They wear very fast in warm weather and are usually noisier (although my nokian wr3s are noticeably quieter than my conti sport contact) and a fair bit worse on fuel efficiency. You could leave them on though, lots of people do, especially as they are getting worn.... They aren't so good with less than 4-5mn of tread left so still good for summer, leave on and wear out.
I didn't think they did grip better in warm weather either. They get soft and squirmy. Or rather they are like that a bit but in the winter you are usually driving slower and don't notice so much those bits of performance where they aren't so good as summer tyres.
I have an old 110ps Octavia TDi, and on cold wet days it’s not unusual to have the traction light flash on some road surfaces and junctions when pulling away.
Can't say I have this problem.
Why not just make all tyres 'winter'? - why reduce the level of grip in the summer.
That’s the next marketing stage, everyone will be driving around on winter tyres in the summer, and then a new fangled tyre called a summer tyre will come out offering more grip, quietness etc at temps over 7 degs. Because the marketing says it true everyone will swap their tyres
Because the compounds and tread patterns (including all the sipes) on winter tyres are less than ideal if you are driving at "pressing on" speeds.Why not just make all tyres 'winter'? - why reduce the level of grip in the summer
Think you've got it bad? In F1/rallying etc they have many more compounds to juggle.
If 'winter tyres' grip better, why not just leave them on your car all year round?
Too soft at higher temps, so squirm and also don't last as long. Sure, people get 20k miles from a set, but summer silica compound tyres get 50k so it's not that good.
Have we picked up from last winters thread?
Lots depends on climate if you live in Southampton or Inverness.
Lots depends on the topography of where you live, and your councils ability to grit or plough.
Nothing is perfect, nothing is 'best' at everything.
Nothing stops you from crashing if you drive like a dick.
I noticed this morning that the Galaxy was a squirrelly beast, as I drove out of our road, at less than 20mph, on sheet black ice. Time for the winters.
I live on the northern edge of Scotland's Central Belt.
In winter I have Nexen Winguards fitted to a Fiat Doblo. I drive like your Gran.
My commute is 20 miles, dropping from uptown 150m to sea level on rural A and unclassified roads. One of the A roads is not a priority route in winter and will have lying snow if it has snowed overnight.
Winter tyres make a huge difference. I have them on both cars and our Motorhome.
If you are a doubter, go to Cairngorm and watch non winter equipped cars and 4x4s try to deal with conditions on the access road or even in the car park. Yes. Some 4x4s struggle, and although there will be an element of driver behaviour, I am not a driving God.
I used to have Vredestein Snowtrac 3s on a diesel Berlingo. That was incredible in deep snow. Only grounding out on the floorplan would stop it.
I used to be a doubter about winter tyres ... until I fitted a set to a spare set of alloys on the 4x4. Under sensible driving, there is a noticeable difference in grip when it gets icy or snowy, and even in the wet, I find the grip improved compared to the summer tyres I have.
On the dry, at speed, I find the opposite ( as you'd expect ) that the grip of winter tyres falls off quicker than when I have a summer type set of tyres fitted.
OP, it’s ok, last month I took my winters off and put summers on, harsh winter guaranteed
Just to annoy the driving gods on here, i am switching over to my winter tyres tomorrow.
I live in the south East but with temps below 7 degrees most mornings and plenty of damp days it is easy to feel the difference in the car.
I'm no racing driver but you can easily feel the difference and i like being able to stop without the assistance of the rear of someone else's car
Matt out and about's drive earlier this week
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I live up a hill in the Derbyshire Dales. I set off for work in the dark and it has been below 4c every day this week. The council are horrendous at gritting around here, even on the A roads.
I drive carefully in these conditions, but why not have an extra bit of safety to help out just in case? While there is an initial outlay the total cost over the life of all the tyres and wheels I have is that of the rims I out the winters in (around £250 total for the original factory spec alloys I got secondhand for both cars).
Since it costs little more money and makes driving safer, why wouldn't I do it where I live?
The difference in grip level when the temperate drops is night and day with winter tyres.
The problem is perception as lots of people think it’s about driving in ice and snow when it’s about the rubber compound and tread pattern giving more grip when the mercury plummets. The only hassle is swapping the wheels over twice a year and storage.
I find on my wife’s 320d that running summer and winter tyres actually saves money after the initial outlay.
Currently 103,000 miles on the clock, first set of winters and just got the second set of summers on. The winters don’t have that much left in them, but we’re still getting well over 50k a set out of them.
Most cars I’ve had recently do 25-30k a set, so even if the BMW is easy on its tyres, that’s good.
The winters don’t have that much left in them, but we’re still getting well over 50k a set out of them
That's pretty good going but a good third of that mileage is probably below the first set of wear bars. You'll still get some benefit from the softer compound but you'll have lost the help from the extra sipes and blocky tread if you encounter any actual snow or ice.