[Closed] Thatcher's died according to BBC

I would have thought this thread would have been a taggers delight.

'Everyone argues'

Not been much actual arguing - amazed it's got to 26 pages without too much nastiness. 🙂

I hated her! She was a lucky politician. She was fortunate to get the leadership of the tories. She was lucky to take on Labour when she did. She was lucky that the SDP split the labour vote and ensured the tories would be in power for at least a decade. She used the Falklands War to her own ends which ensured her continuation in power. To the people who keep saying she was great because she won 3 elections - so did Berlusconi! I see her and her cronies policies as responsible for many of the ills in our country today. She can not be considered great by any measure.
I don't wish her dead as a old dear with dementia now but at the time in her prime I would have been close to pulling the trigger.

- amazed it's got to 26 pages without too much nastiness.

You missed tazzy popping in for a few posts? Nobody bit though. 🙂

they wanted to deal with only one union but they did not want a closed shop - how exactly does that work then?

Basically, poorer people will spend - the rich tend to hoard.

So what you're telling us here is that the economic crisis was actually caused by the poor? Well that's certainly a revelation.

Thatcher's diet according to BBC

Damn.. I misread the thread title

I was hoping for some tips on recipes for cooking the children of the working classes

So what you're telling us here is that the economic crisis was actually caused by the poor? Well that's certainly a revelation.

Only half of it was caused by the poor, the other half of the problems where caused by the rich.

aracer - Member
So what you're telling us here is that the economic crisis was actually caused by the poor? Well that's certainly a revelation.

No, I'm not.
But you knew that, so your post was a bit pointless really, wasn't it?

There is one recognized union, the workers don't have to join it.

An sort of employers closed shop rather than a union closed shop but with no forcing but no point joining any other as they are not recognised

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😀 funniest thing I've heard from Frankie Boyle for years... With a grain of truth too

funniest thing I've heard from Frankie Boyle for years

You're not setting a very high bar there.

I know it's Russell Brand but he shares some wise words re the woman here:

http://m.guardian.co.uk/politics/2013/apr/09/russell-brand-margaret-thatcher

Make of it what you will.

that is a truthful piece of writing-- good on him..

cracking article from brand.

That is a very good article.

funniest thing I've heard from Frankie Boyle for years... With a grain of truth too

He tweeted yesterday something like "Thatcher got more women into politics the way Myra Hindley got more women into hillwalking"

Harsh, but a good point.

Strangely he doesn't seem to mention the famous quotes "also to look after our neighbour" and "help by our own efforts those who are unfortunate". It's almost as if he doesn't know the context for the quote he does use.

An excellent, intelligent and thoughtful piece by RB.

Have I grown to like him, or has he grown up?
(Insert usual quote).

aracer - Member

Strangely he doesn't seem to mention the famous quotes "also to look after our neighbour" and "help by our own efforts those who are unfortunate". It's almost as if he doesn't know the context for the quote he does use.

Well, those quotes aren't famous, are they?
Because it was obvious by her policies and actions that she didn't believe a word of them.

Russell Brand might be a div, but he does have a fine brain on him and occasionally he uses it.

aracer - Member

Strangely he doesn't seem to mention the famous quotes "also to look after our neighbour" and "help by our own efforts those who are unfortunate". It's almost as if he doesn't know the context for the quote he does use.

Or, perhaps because they were so dishonest.

I was astonished that I liked the Russell Brand piece because I've hated his precious writing.

Its not really any better is it or fairer. You can join any union you like but we only recognise and talk to this one.

aracer - Member

Strangely he doesn't seem to mention the famous quotes "also to look after our neighbour" and "help by our own efforts those who are unfortunate".

Unless I missed it, he also doesn't mention a much more famous quote of hers :

[b][i]"Where there is discord, may we bring harmony. Where there is error, may we bring truth. Where there is doubt, may we bring faith. And where there is despair, may we bring hope."[/i][/b]

And he should have done imo - it says so much about her.

Good article by Brand although I loathe his tv persona and the actual presence of the man but his article is very well written.

Good article by Brand although I loathe his tv persona and the actual presence of the man but his article is very well written

+1

Well written and thoughtful.

"also to look after our neighbour" and "help by our own efforts those who are unfortunate". It's almost as if he doesn't know the context for the quote he does use.

TBH would you like to point to her policies that encouraged a sense of responsibility to those less fortunate than themselves?

ITs fair to say she said there was no society just individuals who might help peole once they were sorted - I saw plenty of the former and little of the later from her or any other Tory

I didn't say it was, Mr Goalposts-Movie-McMover. I just explained how it wasn't a closed shop.

Mr Goalposts-Movie-McMover.

I did a little LOL 🙂

[teacher voice] You let yourself down there[/teacher voice] 😉

Two things:

On the HM Gov Petition site, the "No state funeral for Maggie Thatcher" has 30,108 signatures. Surprisingly low considering that this thread will probably reach that number of posts later this afternoon?

And, who's selling the Rover P5 Coupe? 😀

Funeral: Difficult to discuss without sounding churlish, but hey its never stopped me before...

Soooo, £10,000,000 in times of massive austerity. I think thats got potential for very wrong messages being sent.
Devisiveness: there is little doubt that the women polarises opinions, and there is frankly a huge potential for conflict on a frightening scale surrounding this funeral.
The family. As many have pointed out, she is an old lady and a mother, so is it right to set up a situation whereby there is absolutley no doubt that there will be some really hostile and negative behaviour around the event. I'm not sure I'd want booing and muck slinging at my mums funeral. (Mind you who knows what might motivate the criminal Mark and the idiot Carol?)

Overall for my money, I think it should be on a much lesser scale, and not public. for those reasons.

Camo, small point of order... The planned funeral is not a State funeral

If it was you'd be able to "visit" her lying in state and give her a big kiss or not as the case may be

That P5 may be pricey.... one careful lady owner and all that 😆

I'm starting to get really bloody annoyed by this atmosphere that we're almost being ordered by her present disciples to be deferential to her. And dissenting voices should be silenced.

Why the * should we? Out of respect? Just because she's dead?

She was a hideously divisive woman. Proudly divisive even. Has that been reflected in the media coverage? Not one bit. Its all been obscenely sycophantic, to the point where its insulting to the communities her policies destroyed. They had little enough voice to begin with, now they're being told to shut up and show respect. Well... no... * off!!!

Its ironic that as the keepers of her toxic legacy continue her work, and continue to hack whats left of the welfare state to pieces, under the guise of necessary austerity, they don't give a second thought to spanking millions to wheel out all the bells and baubles of the state for her, no matter what the cost

And they're so cold and insensitive that its never crossed their duplicitous self-obsessed minds that large parts of the population will regard that as obscene. ****s!!!!

Camo, small point of order... The planned funeral is not a State funeral

Point of order noted.

But we're still paying for it, right?

Just to be clear, did the nation pay for the funerals of Wilson, Heath, [Harry] Callaghan etc?

[quote=binners ]
And they're so cold and insensitive that its never crossed their duplicitous self-obsessed minds that large parts of the population will regard that as obscene.
I don't have much to say on this matter, but that bit chimes.

Is there not an offence of "Behaviour likely to cause a breach of the peace"? If so, the organisers of her funeral should be charged with it.

Its ironic that as the keepers of her toxic legacy continue her work, and continue to hack whats left of the welfare state to pieces, under the guise of necessary austerity, they don't give a second thought to spanking millions to wheel out all the bells and baubles of the state for her, no matter what the cost

And they're so cold and insensitive that its never crossed their duplicitous self-obsessed minds that large parts of the population will regard that as obscene. *s!!!!

Couldn't agree more. There is also the little matter of all the expenses that the bunch of self serving *s will be able to claim for flying back to wax lyrical abut her in parliament today.

#edit

Is there not an offence of "Behaviour likely to cause a breach of the peace"? If so, the organisers of her funeral should be charged with it.

Agreed.

And according to the BBC travel expenses can be claimed by MPs going to the debate being held in Parliament (up to £3750 for those coming back from abroad!)

This whole charade sends out completely the wrong message to hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of people whose lives are being made worse by the changes and cuts in benefits being introduced by the current Government.

The recall of Parliament to discuss the legacy of Thatcher strikes me as another cynical ploy by this band of self-seeking millionaires to address their increasing unpopularity in the polls. Debates about the legacy of previous PM's have taken place during normal Parliamentary time, so why couldn't Dave and his cronies waited until next week when Parliament convenes again. How low can they stoop?

How low can they stoop?

Oh, based on past record? Much lower.

Has that been reflected in the media coverage? Not one bit. Its all been obscenely sycophantic, to the point where its insulting to the communities her policies destroyed.

[url= http://order-order.com/2013/04/10/the-miseducation-of-maggie-thatcher/ ]Screen shot of BBC web page[/url]

The above link to the Guido Fawkes site shows a screen shot of the BBC Web coverage . Whilst I don't agree with the GF's analysis, I think it is a bit of a push to describe this as sycophantic.

yes it is quite amusing the we must be respectful tones coming out

Parliamnet has opend today so that MP's can effectively browmn nose to her memory

Obviously what binners said but i think the Tories are also being political here - cleverly I guess

Basically the Labur MPS get stuck between saying what they really think and looking rude and disrespectful - hence the she was our PM a great Briton etc we should show some repect agenda - note Blair saying it was naughty to party- whihc puts labour between a rock and a hard place.
A riot will play into the tory hands re bitter hatefilled lefties [ some truth in it tbh] arent theny all naughty , rude etc whilst those toff ****ers rape the public services and shaft the poor people and reward the rich. Their mates in the media will go all guns for another attack on the left forcing labour to either defned this or attack it - ie annoy their core voters or annoy the middle ground they need

Clever and cynical - thank god it did not happen near an elction tbh

I wonder if the 700+ armed forces personnel who will be involved have been asked if they want to?

How low can they stoop?

Well I'd say there's a pretty strong chance that the police will be briefed to crack any skulls that dare to interfere with the enforced reverence. Which would be a suitably fitting testimony to her, and her attitude to dealing with democratic rights and dissent from the common peasantry

I would also imagine that Dave and chums are cynical enough to be secretly willing it to go off. So they can get straight onto their high horses, and use it as an opportunity to further her/their agenda. I'm sure their right wing tabloid attack dogs have been briefed, and already have the headlines written

I'd say after Gideons Philpott comments, that's presently where we're at

binners, Thatcher's death appears to be making your views a little more extreme/ alarmist than usual.

whilst that Brand piece in the Guardian is well written, save for his usual addition of flowerly un-understandable language, it's a bit weak in its meaningful content, but I guess as another child of the 80s his talk of apathy then and now does ring true. I want to care, but I'm not in a position to know why I should.

http://blogs.channel4.com/factcheck/factcheck-the-thatcher-myths/13236

I wonder if the 700+ armed forces personnel who will be involved have been asked if they want to?

When she was in power she was adored by the armed forces, she treated them well (increased pay substantially) and gave them clear unambiguous missions.

brakes - her death has, I'd imagine alongside a few other people, brought out a level of anger in me I haven't felt in a very long time. Since I was watching, daily, her police stormtroopers beating the living **** out of miners, to be honest.

I look at whats presently being done to our society by this inhumane shower. And all the coverage has just reminded me that they're merely finishing her ideological lifes work. The systematic dismantling of the welfare state, and the drive to eradicate every sign of social progress made over the decades, and take us back to Victorian levels of inequality.

That way the uppity working classes can be put firmly back where they belong.

Why don't you move to the Socialist Paradise that is North Korea then?

Obviously what binners said but i think the Tories are also being political here - cleverly I guess

+1

Fancy that, Tories making hay out of a death and funeral.

Why don't you move to the Socialist Paradise that is North Korea then?

😆

Reminds me of a famous "on your bike" quote.

That has to be one of your more intelligent comebacks ratty. Nice edit, by the way.

You're outdoing yourself with your witty and urbane replies Ratty. You're like a right wing reactionary version of Stephen Fry

Its a credit to you that you get you're razor sharp replies in so quickly. I'd have to stay up all night to come back with gems like that

Improved it I thought Mitch.

I mean, don't get me wrong - theres Cuba as well, China and Vietnam to an extent - all are viable options if you hate capitalism that much Binners.

So rattrap you agree that parliament should be recalled at [b][u]public[/b][/u] expense to eulogise over her? You also agree that a good chunk of [b][u]public[/b][/u] money should be spent to parade her coffin through the streets? All at a time when we are being told that austerity cuts are essential as we have no [b][u]public[/b][/u] money?

AS I have already said, I won't be dancing on any graves but to spend such [b][u]public[/u][/b] money on burying a wealthy woman from a wealthy family when cuts are being made elsewhere is obscene.

Hating capitalism? Hmmmmmmm. I'm not sure hating thatcher and this present lot is tantamount to agreeing with Marx

You're clearly a bright boy though. Maybe you need to maybe apply the same intellectual rigour to your ideological musings as you clearly do to your hilarious retorts

That'd be a win/win for all involed

Strange, but over the past couple of days all I've had is Roger Waters's lyrics haunting me- just curious as to whether anyone else has. Apologies if already posted, but what an album btw, whether you agree with the political message or not (ultimately Gilmour fell out with him)

Defining China as non-capitalist? Hmmmmmmm. Again, that's certainly an interesting concept.

Do go on.....

So rattrap you agree that parliament should be recalled at public expense to eulogise over her?

Significant expense? we're paying the MP's wages as it is, they should be at work regardless, not swanning on their extended holidays.

You also agree that a good chunk of public money should be spent to parade her coffin through the streets?

Additional cost? well, the soldiers are already there, the police are already there - we're not even spending any money on petrol if its a hand cart.

All at a time when we are being told that austerity cuts are essential as we have no public money?

I know, Labour spent it all, there was a note and everything.

AS I have already said, I won't be dancing on any graves but to spend such public money on burying a wealthy woman from a wealthy family when cuts are being made elsewhere is obscene.

I think it typifies Thatchers Britain. Money spent on the few and the wealthy, while the majority can rot.

AS I have already said, I won't be dancing on any graves but to spend such public money on burying a wealthy woman from a wealthy background is obscene.

+1

Personally I think its wrong to jump up and down at someones death. I'll think its a great shame if there is a big kick off at her funeral. Take your party elsewhere.

I know a lot of people who think she is a vile Women, but being Vile and disrespectful achieves nothing.

What binners said +1000

I see in The Incontinent that the cops are expecting trouble so will be stamping down hard on dissenting demonstrations. A fitting send-off, it seesm to me. Maybe they can re-run the Orgreave tactics and show up in ambulances.

Nice avoidance of the questions rattrap. Thought about going in to politics?

Soooo, £10,000,000 in times of massive austerity. I think thats got potential for very wrong messages being sent.

[quote=Coyote said]So rattrap you agree that parliament should be recalled at public expense to eulogise over her? You also agree that a good chunk of public money should be spent to parade her coffin through the streets? All at a time when we are being told that austerity cuts are essential as we have no public money?

It's the labour party who do the "unburied dead" thing, perhaps if she'd have lasted a couple more years ?

but being Vile and disrespectful achieves nothing.

Sorry atp, not sure of the meaning there. If it's a reference to the winter of discontent stuff then you misunderstand me. I'm not saying she shouldn't be buried. I'm saying that the public purse shouldn't be paying for it.

I see in The Incontinent that the cops are expecting trouble so will be stamping down hard on dissenting demonstrations. A fitting send-off, it seesm to me. Maybe they can re-run the Orgreave tactics and show up in ambulances.

Best bit is that in that case, then even after her death we'll be paying the coppers overtime to bang some Lefties over the head for her 😈

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I reckon she'd call that a fitting way to go out in style 8)

My shonky calcs reckon that LaThatch's funeral costs amount to 0.02 % of the interest the UK has to pay/annum to service the national debt. Small change innit.

Famous ex-MP Louise Mensch was on the tellybox last night commenting that all those partying and criticising Margaret Thatcher were just "little people". She was quite dismissive...

When she was in power she was adored by the armed forces, she treated them well (increased pay substantially) and gave them clear unambiguous missions.

.....and never once cut their budget and then committed them to a conflict which they didn't have sufficientkit to properly prosecute...... hang on..... 😯

Funnily enough ratty, I never saw myself as a lefty, until the strike. I then went from being an ordinary working bloke, trying to look after my family, pay my mortgage and perhaps save up for a week away somewhere sunny, to being one of the "enemy within", and yes, being "banged over the head by some coppers". You know what? It's not that great. I wish you'd stop talking bollocks old cock, and as for all the "show some respect" comments on here, give it a rest, please. You either never knew her for what she was in the first place, or you're just swallowing what the present government and its attendant media wants you to.

Real classy and thoughtful post there Ratty. You've surpassed yourself. And that's pretty difficult.

Anyway... I reckon I've sussed out your real identity. Its obvious. You're fitting this in while having a bit of writers block, doing your new column for the Telegraph. You can keep my £5 I won. Donate it to the NUM or something

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An interesting article by Johnathon Freedland that probably sums up what I was trying to say in my earlier rant much more eloquently....

[url= http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2013/apr/09/lady-thatcher-britain-present-future ]The wider Tory tribe seems determined to use the nine-day limbo between her passing and her funeral to define Thatcher in death in a way that would have seemed impossible, if not outright absurd, in life: as above and beyond politics, as a national rather than partisan figure, as an incontestable and uncontested part of our collective inheritance.[/url]

Not as eloquently as Ratty/Kelvins delicate reasonings on the subject, but he tried

All the "and 1000!" lurkers are beginning to get a bit more nervous and refreshing the thread more regularly...

allthepies - Member
My shonky calcs reckon that LaThatch's funeral costs amount to 0.02 % of the interest the UK has to pay/annum to service the national debt. Small change innit.

Mine show that you breath about 0.0000017% of the oxygen breathed in the UK, so depriving you of that would be even smaller change. However, much like the funeral, it wouldn't make it either right nor appropriate would it?

being one of the "enemy within", and yes, being "banged over the head by some coppers". You know what? It's not that great. I wish you'd stop talking bollocks old cock,

Hey, we've all been there - some of us were opposed to the ideologically driven hunting ban, but you know what - the evil oppressive left wing took away our livelihoods and hobbies and smashed our heads with riot batons.

Didn't see you campaigning for our livelihoods...

[quote=Berm Bandit said]
Mine show that you breath about 0.0000017% of the oxygen breathed in the UK, so depriving you of that would be even smaller change. However, much like the funeral, it wouldn't make it either right nor appropriate would it?

Depends on who's point of view you look at doesn't it. Just like Thatch 😉

Hang on. I think I may have been wrong about your identity. Quick question..... Have you ever thrown an egg at John Prescott?

Are you genuinely trying to compare the hunting ban with the 1984 strike? You really do have no idea ratty.

rattrap earlier;

[img] [/img]

On reflection you're probably right Barnsleymitch - we never tried to overthrow parliamentary democracy in search of a communist revolution like King Arthur

and you wonder why it ended in tears?

Tell you what though - we warned you that after us, they'd be after you next:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/9958118/Pigeon-racers-in-a-flap-as-animal-rights-group-calls-for-ban.html

Hey, we've all been there - some of us were opposed to the ideologically driven hunting ban, but you know what - the evil oppressive left wing took away our livelihoods and hobbies and smashed our heads with riot batons.

Didn't see you campaigning for our livelihoods...

Well if your hobby was to chase animals cross country and then watch them killed by the dogs, then hitting you over the head with a baton was the least we could do.

Aaaaaaaaaaaaah, yes ... the Countryside Alliance. The greatest living example of just one too many vowels