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@cumberland
Considering no-one here had even heard of it before all this palaver do you now all suddenly feel free and un-objectified, or has it really not made one tiny bit of difference to your life?
I wasn't the one who was being objectified but equally I don't work for SportsDirect it doesn't stop me from expressing my distaste for the way they treat their employees for example. Something that by comparison, was brought to my attention by a newspaper journalist recently.
If Maxxis have closed down a particular facet of their marketing as a result of this debate and Adele's article then I do feel better yes. A point was made , primarily that this type of device creates ill feeling toward your brand which we would otherwise be happy to support. Why did it create that ill feeling because is was sexist by objectifying women.
Well done to @scotroutes for his internet trawling (DYSWIDT!).
chip - MemberI think Maxxis really ought to get a grip - I mean, they should know to tread more carefully. In this day and age, they need a marketing strategy with real traction, otherwise they will eventually feel the pinch when their customers spend their money elsewhere. This may well deflate the brand entirely.
We had two recent threads on MMA and josh what's his face.
Did they use promotional models (ring girls), were was the disapproving 14 page threads then.
I hope all you real men who believe this is sexism boycotted these fights.
Got one!
I'm putting chip in the landing net and packing up my gear and going home.
Ironically 'chips' would go well with the bloody great fish I've just landed!
[quote=surroundedbyhills ]Well done to @scotroutes for his internet trawling (DYSWIDT!).
😆
I guess it does raise the question; why take it off the UK site and not the German one (and I've no idea if there are others)? Are attitudes that different across borders? Does it give those in the UK a feeling of being on the higher moral ground?
What's the difference? That you get to feel morally superior and retain your liberal status rather than being part of a culture which bans things it disapproves of?
Adele seems to think its OK in other contexts (presumably such as motorsport). So is it ok so long as it doesn't come into your field of view?
Perhaps the 'answer' to sexism in society is education rather than faux-outrage at a silly calendar?
It's not about my moral superiority or 'liberal' status as you so kindly put it (not that gender equality need be liberal of course). It's not about some nanny state banning either, it just shows we've reached an empasse where you can't admit something is sexist, even though you've basically defined it as such. The answer to sexism is education for sure, but also to stop pretty bad examples of it! It's not faux-outrage either, it's defending an important issue.
Perhaps the 'answer' to sexism in society is education rather than faux-outrage at a silly calendar?
Just to make it clear - I'm not expressing outrage, faux or otherwise.
My point is about how sexist attitudes can still be damaging despite increased equality in society.
Adele seems to think its OK in other contexts (presumably such as motorsport). So is it ok so long as it doesn't come into your field of view?
What's your point? Presumably the 'babes' in the calendar think it's ok too. I don't.
Discrimination solely on the basis of gender
That's sexual discrimination - sexism is more than that. What would you call the subliminal imposition of gender bias onto society? You have another word for it? What about the subliminal oppression of women (more controversial, that one)
Well faustus, I explained why I thought it wasn't sexist. You are using a different definition to me and on that we really are splitting hairs. You are talking about a society wide ill by using that term, I am talking about an 'in the moment effect'. If we adopted each others definition we would probably agree (to an extent).
So far as the important issue bit goes I don't actually think that smutty images 'cause' sexist behaviour, and as such the target is wrong.
That's my opinion that is. You don't have to think the same as me. Even if you're female 😉
Got one!
I'm putting chip in the landing net and packing up my gear and going home.
Ironically 'chips' would go well with the bloody great fish I've just landed!
Curry sauce, can't have chips without curry sauce.
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I don't think it's a different definition, and we're never going to agree. But it's got to that 'we'll have to agree to disagree' platitude moment!
I'm assuming you checked my name, so i'm happy to say that you don't need to be a female to be a feminist 🙂
Curry sauce, can't have chips without curry sauce.
I appreciate your point here - but not with fish as well. Chips and curry sauce = fine. Battered sausage + chips + curry sauce = fine. Fish + chips + curry sauce = not fine. Mushy peas with fish and chips. Always.
However, having see how some of the other threads have gone in the last day or so, I don't want to start a sub-thread with you on something that is truly important and likely to inflame passions on all sides. The last thing this place needs is a thread that really turns nasty.
You are using a different definition to me and on that we really are splitting hairs.
Hmm I don't think it's a small difference. Just look at this thread. Someone was dismayed or upset by the calendar, and we've had 15 pages of people telling her she's overreacting, and to calm down dear... so we're trying to say why it's an issue. Call it sexism or something else, it's still an issue.
I'd be interested to know if you have kids, dan - not because I want to be self-righteous (I hate that) but because it can be an eye opener and an interesting experience.
Seriously though, does all this shite binners keeps posting actually make anyone think "What a great guy, i wish i could be like him"? Or does it just inspire other thoughts?
molgrips-
That's sexual discrimination - sexism is more than that. What would you call the subliminal imposition of gender bias onto society? You have another word for it? What about the subliminal oppression of women (more controversial, that one)
Splitting hairs again I think. I'd call it normal to [i]some [/i]degree. We can all try and treat people equally but fundamentally you will never be able to eradicate some level of gender bias. Men and women are different after all.
Is this calendar and its ilk really such a strong influence? I seriously doubt it.
Is this calendar and its ilk really such a strong influence? I seriously doubt it.
Still on first base. Tsk.
[quote=molgrips ] we've had 15 pages of people telling her she's overreacting,
Actually, a few of those posts have been pointing out her hypocrisy. That can be the case whether or not she was right [i]on this occasion[/i].
Molgrips -
If you read the thread i have covered the kids bit, and yeah i do. And ones a girl. And it really doesn't seem to be a big deal. It would be a healthy lesson to her to realise that some men like to look at tits but don't actually think of women as good for nothing but lying on their backs and making tea (that right tyson?). Unfortunately some do, banning (or removing from sale) a few calendars isn't going to change that.
We can all try and treat people equally but fundamentally you will never be able to eradicate some level of gender bias.
Hmm. Men and women are slightly different, but that doesn't mean one has to have the upper hand.
There's a lot written about this. Gender pay gap, for starters.
Unfortunately some do
Yes. The point is that the calendar is intended to be displayed in a communal if not public manner. So everyone gets to see it. From the sexist man to the insecure woman.
Imagine if someone produced a slave calendar, with pictures of black people working in cotton fields, and published it in say Missippi. For, you know, historical interest. Cos of course slavery is banned now so it's all ok, right? That battle was won 150 years ago.
Education said somebody. I used to despair of my teaching resources they were so blatantly sexist. If ever there's a time people learn to conform to their sex stereotype it's at school. Astronauts are men, footballers are men, building workers are men, nurses are women, biologists are women. There has been a recent attempt to remove sex and race stereotyping in school books but it's still there, even in the comic posters teachers put up:
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I used to pick my kid up at "l'heure des mamans".
does all this shite binners keeps posting actually make anyone think "What a great guy, i wish i could be like him"? Or does it just inspire other thoughts?
well I certainly hope he doesn't drink Tennents..
I think binners is a top bloke.
Do you think if a shipload of little girls washed up on a desert island and were looked after by wolves they'd grow up to worry about makeup and lingerie? Really?
This would make a great experiment. What would happen if after 10 years or so a similar aged boy washed up on the same island?
This would make a great experiment. What would happen if after 10 years or so a similar aged boy washed up on the same island?
I think we all know the answer to that one............
I think Maxxis really ought to get a grip - I mean, they should know to tread more carefully. In this day and age, they need a marketing strategy with real traction, otherwise they will eventually feel the pinch when their customers spend their money elsewhere. This may well deflate the brand entirely
Seems they've gone boobless.
It's back online.
Just gonna throw this in here.
Very interesting grum my initial thoughts are what about people who swear they were born in the wrong body and seek out transgender surgery. Does that mean the thought of being the opposites Sex and all the stereotypical things that go with it are just more appealing to them,
I agree with the point about an outdated sexist attitude in society but as that slowly slowly changes we cannot then go backwards, the can o'worms is open.. we move forwards with a new progressive idea about objectification. I'm not sure objectification is actually 'wrong' as such.
Force feeding society bizarre un-natural images of perceived perfect people is wrong imo and should have clearer guidelines to protect the naive mind but there are signs of very small changes, opening up our attitudes towards sexism and objectification means we need more of this type of thing not less, it just needs to be fair and realistic combined with a long term view on educating well rounded people.
It is a very complicated matter but an interesting one. Thanks 😀
Does that not sound a bit odd when you read it in your head?Its not the womans world, its not the mans world, its just the world
Lolwut? Did it not sound odd in your head originally, before I just reused your terminology?
good for nothing but lying on their backs and making tea
That sounds quite hazardous, I wouldn't recommend it.
If ever there's a time people learn to conform to their sex stereotype it's at school. Astronauts are men, footballers are men, building workers are men, nurses are women, biologists are women.
I see this quite a lot in board games too, though the tide is turning. "The next player does x on his turn" sort of thing; particularly grating when I'm going through a rule book with the person I play games most with, my wife.(*) Thinking about it, gaming generally is pretty bad for it, my missus likes video games but doesn't particularly want every character she ever plays to look like Marcus Fenix. But I suppose that's a whole other conversation.
(* - quiet at the back)
but there are signs of very small changes
Yes, as mentioned - Pirelli, the most famous calendar maker changed theirs and it was widely covered. Makes Maxxis &co look all the sillier tbh, and results in far better publicity for Pirelli than any calendar could imo.
I personally dont mind playing lara croft or chun li .. has anyone thought about asking Adele if she would like to cast an eye over this thread?
I'm sure there are plenty of anecdotes for more column inches.
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I personally dont mind playing lara croft or chun li
I quite often choose to play female characters; they're often just better. Though I suppose that's because they're usually portrayed as more agile, spellchuckers, archers and so forth rather than brute force characters, which suits my play style but I guess just reinforces the stereotypes.
I'm absolutely bouncing off the walls in anticipation for the new Tomb Raider game at Christmas, though (-:
[url= http://www.tombraiderchronicles.com/lara/alisoncarroll/eidos_official_01.html ]nothing to see here[/url]
Seriously though, does all this shite binners keeps posting actually make anyone think "What a great guy, i wish i could be like him"?
I think he is managing to perfectly mock the defenders of this and I would rather have a beer with him than you
I think he is managing to perfectly mock the defenders of this and I would rather have a beer with him than you
Careful, you're being sexist again. Just because he's a bloke you go assuming that he likes beer. Honestly, you people. If you were to offer to buy me a beer in such a prejudiced way, I would be mightily offended. Just try me.
its ok I will pass
Foiled again.
I once drank a cup of tea in the back of a lorry in the rain with 3 of the Maxxis girls. That's all
Three girls one cup?
Seriously though, does all this shite binners keeps posting actually make anyone think "What a great guy, i wish i could be like him"?
To be honest with you, I've never even thought that. On account of having the self awareness to realise what a monumental bell end I am. So I do it as a sort of compulsion. Really it's a cry for help. I try to laugh through the tears, as I rock back and too, gently sobbing. My tears cascading onto the keyboard like a leaky colostomy bag.
Can I have a brandy and babycham please JY? I'm feeling a bit emotional. People can be so hurtful.
FWIW - I find Adele's article on STW almost as offensive as the Maxxis calendar itself. Each are in their own way, naively out of touch with the reality of life.
If you really don't like a company's marketing ethos that much...simple, don't buy or associate your self with that brand. In the meantime, there is no need to preach your views.
[quote=skydragon ]FWIW - I find Adele's article on STW almost as offensive as the Maxxis calendar itself. Wait until you read some of her other stuff.
I couldn't help myself....I had to Google Adele...In her website biog, she states 'I was beauty editor at Just 17 magazine'
FFS, I've just spluttered half my IPA over myself... how the hell can someone go from promoting the brainwashing of young, impressionable teenage girls into believing self-image, style and beauty is all important, to having the views she now promotes.
As a father, Just 17 IMHO is far more damaging to females in our society than a bloody Maxxis calendar!!
#Kettle/Pot/Black
I'm sure that whatever mistakes she made in the past, it was all a mans/all mens/societies fault.
self awareness
A much undervalued commodity. Especially in the internet age where a person's ability to get their opinion 'out there' leads them to confuse this with some kind of entitlement to be listened to.