I'm out with the dog. Just passed 2 kids helping their Dad with lambing. Great sight and they will probably learn more than a week at school.
You do realise it's the school holidays currently?
From my POV as a teacher:
A day off sick here or there has minimal impact - though it does still mean planning in catch up time can be a bit of a nightmare.
2 or 3 weeks off in a lump has a massive influence on their learning. They'll potentially miss whole topics, and how can you plan on time for them to catch up as the rest of the class have moved on.
I've tried the extra homework/self-guided learning route, and they don't do it and you often get moany parents complaining about the extra workload. I even sent one little **** off with work to do on holiday (GCSE stuff so quite important) did he do it? Did he ****!
As to the original story - 92% attendance equates to 3.5 weeks missed. So not a little amount.
He should just have sucked it up and paid the fine. There's no way he can argue that a week at Disneyland has educational value!
Bollocks. Were are going away May half term. We are going on the Wednesday before my son breaks up on Friday. If we went on the Saturday it was an extra £1000. He will have just finished his SATS, and having spent the majority of March and April having tests rammed down his throat a few days off school isn't going to affect him one little bit, nor disrupt the rest of the class for that matter.
Ah see it isn't the Easter holidays here and so the kids may well be out of school!
As Peyote says you have to work at it and make it work. For years me and the other half worked in a job where we got 20 days off a year together and that was it! Yes it was our choice and when it became too much I left and got a new job. People expect too much in life and think everything should be given to them on a plate, we all make choices. If the job doesn't work with your family life then find another one, if you can't find one that pays as much then maybe you need to re-think about moving and the size of your mortgage etc. None of us are owed anything on a plate.
Why should businesses be more accommodation just because you have children? My previous employer gave to people with kids too much and those of us without got penalized all the time. As I've already said it's choices you make.
Good for you Peyote. Not giving your kids the holidays that you would like to because you feel duty bound to a system designed to extract the maximum amount of cash out of you is clearly the responsible grown-up thing to do.
People expect too much in life
"I was miserable so you should be too. Accept your lot in life and don't try to buck the system."
hilst, I'm sure there are situations where some parent's employers make it difficult to coordinte family holidays outside term time, those employers should be put under pressure to be more accomodating.
As a manager I try to be but as a manager I've a service to supply so it's not always feasible, more pressure can't change that. A change in the rules about schools can.
Bollocks. Were are going away May half term. We are going on the Wednesday before my son breaks up on Friday. If we went on the Saturday it was an extra £1000. He will have just finished his SATS, and having spent the majority of March and April having tests rammed down his throat a few days off school isn't going to affect him one little bit, nor disrupt the rest of the class for that matter.
And I hope you now get fined.
Doubt you'll learn anything from it, as you seem like a bit of a plonker.
.
The dad was on World at 1 - put his case forward very well - the point about 92% attendance is that the school in question expects 90-95% - which he meets.
"rip off term time holidays" - is there a cartel there or a free market?
Are holidaycos showing massive profits?
🙄
Doubt you'll learn anything from it, as you seem like a bit of a plonker.
And you know me how?
We called our daughter in sick on the very last day of school last year to go to America on a family visit. It saved us about £800 on flights.
Sorry, I'm way behind this one.
What's the fine these days for taking your little darling on a week of [s]Disneyland jollies[/s] educational foreign experience - £60? £200? £months-salary?
You choose to have children, therefore you know they will go to school and thus limit school holidays come along and you'll have to pay more. What happened to the days of only going on holiday where you can afford to go? And sadly if it's out of your budget you have to go elsewhere?
I'm a parent and agree completely with this. Being a parent was a choice, my job was a choice, my lifestyle is a choice. All of these things require compromises. It's what being an adult with responsibilities is all about.
Likewise. Kids now not kids so can now stay in those off-peak 5*s for the price of a "chalet" (look underneath - if it's got wheels it's not a chalet) in France. That's alongside fellow oldies, young couples pre or post toddlers, and those for who whatever reason were not dragged into the abyss which is family life. It's great and schoolies better stay in school...
That said, you'll notice how private schools stagger their spring half terms so parents can get those cheaper skiing deals..? Much as I resent this (chip moi? Slap on the VAT...) it might be making slightly more sensible use of limited capacity.
"Back when I was a lad" etc though, we didn't go on foreign holidays and a trip to the seaside was about all people did around school holidays. If they went anywhere at all.
These days kids expect exotic holidays else they're ringing social services 😀
Good for you Peyote. Not giving your kids the holidays that you would like to because you feel duty bound to a system designed to extract the maximum amount of cash out of you is clearly the responsible grown-up thing to do.
Good for you Graham S, making numerous assumptions about my life and choices based on your own prejudices and desires!
And you know me how?
I don't know you, but have met plenty of entitled a'holes with the same attitude.
We live in a society where there are rules that help us all rub along together as best we can. You chose (I assume) to have a kid, so unfortunately a few more of those rules apply to you. But you're cool, you're a rebel. The 'Man' can't make you do the same stuff as everyone else, can he.
What if you didn't choose to have a kid? Should term time holidays be allowed if your pregnancy was unplanned?
And you know me how?
I don't know you, but have met plenty of entitled a'holes with the same attitude.We live in a society where there are rules that help us all rub along together as best we can. You chose (I assume) to have a kid, so unfortunately a few more of those rules apply to you. But you're cool, you're a rebel. The 'Man' can't make you do the same stuff as everyone else, can he.
🙄 🙄 🙄
Ok, cut out the 'you chose...' bit. Replace it with 'you have a child'!
And you know me how?
From what you posted. Which made you sound like a Plonker [s]pointer[/s]
Do keep up. 😀
Which made you sound like a pointer.
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What if you didn't choose to have a kid? Should term time holidays be allowed if your pregnancy was unplanned?
Really Mols? I think if you didn't choose to have a kid, but accepted it anyway, then you have to accept the responsibility that entails.
If you didn't choose, and didn't accept it, then it falls under the care of the social services surely?
My children have a far higher attendance rate than their teachers.
Personally, I wouldn't think twice about taking my children out of school for up to a week if it was necessary subject to their educational needs being met by some home schooling to catch up. The government will do anything to divert attention from the mess they have created in our education system and there are plenty more imprtant things to get steamed up about. I'll pay the fine and that will be that - small beer compared to the thousands I already pay out on kids activities/tutoring etc
One of my daughters school runs a tern time ski trip the other a term time PGL holiday - but obviously thats different of course and vital to their educational wellbeing...
Really Mols?
No, not really. It was a hypothetical question for the purposes of debate.
Personally, I wouldn't think twice about taking my children out of school for up to a week if it was necessary subject to their educational needs being met by some home schooling to catch up
That's why it should be discretionary - the teachers know the kids and usually the parents and should be able to make a judgement on whether or not the kid will be able to catch up or will be able to do work whilst away.
Good for you Graham S, making numerous assumptions about my life and choices based on your own prejudices and desires!
Hey you're the one announcing that compromising is [i]"what being an adult with responsibilities is all about."[/i]
At the end of the day no one is going to reward you for sticking doggedly to the rules to your own detriment.
That said, you'll notice how private schools stagger their spring half terms so parents can get those cheaper skiing deals..?
Indeed. And of course those with kids in private schools (like MPs) aren't bound by the same rules as the oiks in state schools.
(This has actually been put forward as a good reason to allow turn our local state school into an academy - we can then vary the holidays to get cheaper deals!)
No, not really. It was a hypothetical question for the purposes of debate.
Phew! Hopefully that particular avenue has been covered then!
Hey you're the one announcing that compromising is "what being an adult with responsibilities is all about."
And you'd disagree? I don't think what I wrote was particularly loaded, unlike your response. I'd like to think that the compromises I make aren't detrimental to the life I provide for my kids. From this I assume that you do...
At the end of the day no one is going to reward you for sticking doggedly to the rules to your own detriment.
I don't believe it is to my own or my kids detriment. If everyone followed the example of taking their kids out when they fancied a break I think it would lead to detriment, maybe not to the kids individually (each individual case depending of course), but to the (already faltering) education system.
[quote=molgrips ]What if you didn't choose to have a kid? Should term time holidays be allowed if your pregnancy was unplanned?
I presume there was still a choice made at some point. Make your choices and live with the consequences and the resulting rules.
[quote=winston ]My children have a far higher attendance rate than their teachers.
Wow - so the teachers are off on their holidays in term time? I'd complain about that if I was you.
[quote=GrahamS ](This has actually been put forward as a good reason to allow turn our local state school into an academy - we can then vary the holidays to get cheaper deals!)
It's a piss poor argument - in order to allow some families to get cheaper deals you completely screw up those who have children in different schools (which actually happens to most families for at least one year). Or those who are teachers and have children in a different school - actually maybe that's the issue with the teachers at winston's school where they're swanning off in term time.
I'd like to think that the compromises I make aren't detrimental to the life I provide for my kids. From this I assume that you do...
Yep. I can't speak for you obviously, but yes it is for me.
Sure, "supply & demand",[b] but they can run the flights/hotels/etc at the so called discounted rate just fine [/b]and many still manage to fill up (term time flights I've been on to popular destinations are still full). It's S&D in that it's an opportunity for maximising profit (to be fair, they're a business and usually that's a key point of being in business).
Have ever been in involved in the holiday industry in any sort of financial level? I'm assuming not because this is just not true. The overseas package holiday sector runs at a loss in the low and shoulder periods - it's all about damage limitation. The have access to the hotel and the flight and the staff to run it you need to sign up for the season. If the peak season did not happen the companies would go out of business. They exist for the peak periods. Prices from the remainder of the year are about minimising losses and juggling the 'discount' to get as close to full as possible at a time of year where the product is hard to sell. The tricky bit is balancing the raw cost of the holiday whilst getting the place as full as possible so you create a large captive market for making profits at the bar etc.
In truth the cost of the holiday in the peak periods is closer to the cost to the operators than you might think.
Overall happy with the decision. I think discretion should be with the Head teacher (and this still needs work) and if this had gone through the ability for a parent to put two fingers up. Far too many people who state 'I know what's best for my child' are actually saying 'I know what's best for me'. It did not help that the bloke in question has a reputation locally for being a monumental arsehole of epic proportions and a slap in the face for his ego was always going to be a good thing.
The underlying issue is not new and has been around for decades. Bottom line is that holidays / accommodation costs more during "peak" periods which is, inevitably, when kids are on holiday. Which means that, as a family, you have to budget and plan for your holiday and work within that budget. Sure, we would all like to go on exotic holidays but if we can't afford it then look for something cheaper. We have a fabulous country here with a breadth of diversity and part of the benefit of a holiday is to relax and get away from it all.
What we have seen on this thread is one of the legacies of the 80's culture "It's all about me and **** the lot of you if it interferes with what I want to do!". This has merged with that hideous trait of entitlement to make this situation worse. Yes, I hated having to pay more for our family holiday, so we adapted. And while we think that taking our little princess out of school is no big deal, if you extrapolate that across the class where most of the parents did it but at different times of the term then it makes the teachers job an absolute nightmare and everyone in the class suffers. Peyote made, I thought, a very reasonable post about accepting responsibilities. It's also about respecting other people and their roles as well. That is not sucking up to "The Man". As others have posted, we do not have any divine right to expensive or foreign holidays. Or to go when we want. The "rules" are in place for a reason. You may not like it especially, but that doesn't give you the right to just wilfully disregard them because you don't like them.
Where they are is not the point - on holiday, off sick, on another useless course, they aren't teaching my children and the teaching assistant or supply teacher rarely fills the gap adequately. Safe to say that every time the teacher is off my children are having their education disrupted. This happens at least once a week at primary level and many times at secondary level. Yet apparently if I interupt the magic that is the national curriculum for a personal reason then thats irresponsible
Some of you arguing about being "grown-up" is hilariously ironic.
As ever, the [url= http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/society/six-year-old-taken-on-term-time-holiday-will-never-catch-up-on-colouring-20160515108831 ]Daily Mash[/url] have this covered.
Where they are is not the point - on holiday, off sick, on another useless course,
Holiday? Unlikely, teachers actually have to follow the rules!
Sick? Well would you rather they came in and gave it to your kids?
On a course? I've been on two in the last 3 years (oooh, 2 whole days off school!) one was on how to moderate the new GCSE coursework, the other was on child protection and how to spot and deal with signs of child abuse. So both totally useless!
Anyway, whilst you lot sit at your office desk and contemplate another afternoon of IT problems, I'm sitting in the garden drinking a beer, whilst my 3 year old gambols about with the cat.
I do have to mark some books at some point though 🙁
Where they are is not the point - on holiday, off sick, on another useless course, they aren't teaching my children and the teaching assistant or supply teacher rarely fills the gap adequately. Safe to say that every time the teacher is off my children are having their education disrupted. This happens at least once a week at primary level and many times at secondary level. Yet apparently if I interupt the magic that is the national curriculum for a personal reason then thats irresponsible
I've no idea what you do for a living but just imagine you are in charge of a large group of adults. You call a meeting to give them all a set of instructions. 5 minutes into giving them the instruction your phone goes off - it's a call you have to take. You halt the meeting and tell them to talk amongst themselves for 2 minutes - not ideal but 2 minutes is lost and the meeting reconvenes with everyone having heard everything but you are going to have to talk a bit quicker to get through everything you need to say.
Now imagine 5 minutes into the meeting Dave gets a call and goes out to take it. You carry on but when Dave comes back in he wants to know what's been said. You stop and go back and cover it quickly and everyone else shuffles their feet. Then Wendy takes a call and goes out. When she comes back you are too far into the meeting to stop again so ask your assistant to go and help Wendy. Your assistant was writing the minutes but never mind you'll do that yourself later. Next Wayne and Terry leave together to take a conference call which is really annoying because you were just about to test everyone to see if they understood what you had been going on about. When they come back your assistant is still helping Wendy (Wendy missed the stuff you were talking about whilst she was learning the the stuff she missed when she was out of the room and she's not the brightest- your assistant looks like she's ready to throttle her) so can't help Wayne and Terry so they start pissing around. Jenny joins Wayne and Terry messing about because she is easily distracted and normally your assistant would have been sat next to her but she's still stuck with Wendy.
To summarise - they are not the same. Or even close.
^^^ BEST METAPHOR EVA 😉
maybe what primary/ secondary education needs is a modular approach.
Might be a logistical nightmare, but if your kids are falling behind at 'history 3.1' and maths '2.4', then they repeat those 'blocks'.
That way, you guarantee that the pupils have comprehensively mastered each subject.
Win win?
Very well put convert.
Now imagine 5 minutes into the meeting Dave gets a call and goes out to take it. You carry on but when Dave comes back in he wants to know what's been said. He gets given the minutes to read in his own time and the everyone continues as normal.
He gets given the minutes to read in his own time and the everyone continues as normal.
But Dave can't read too well. So you have to sit down with Dave and go through it line by line. Also he's the anxious sort and because he was not in the meeting he didn't get a sense of everyone else's level of understanding and spends the next two weeks worrying that he doesn't get it as well as everyone else.
Now imagine 5 minutes into the meeting Dave gets a call and goes out to take it. You carry on but when Dave comes back in he wants to know what's been said. He gets given the minutes to read in his own time and the everyone continues as normal.
But what if the second half of the meeting depends on the stuff that Dave missed, but he hasn't been able to go through the minutes yet?
What about if it's just in the three minutes at the end where Dave and everyone else just has a laugh and watches Minions on DVD?
As with everything else, there is room for compromise and realism - particularly when it comes to primary age children. However, the fact that some parents will take the piss, or put pressure on headteachers to allow poorly timed excessive absence, means that it's easier for the schools to be given the get-out-of-jail-free card of offering no discretion whatsoever.
Minions is more than three minutes long. Your analogy is flawed.