I think he's bitter than having children turns out to be more expensive that not having children.
But that's state education for you, never teaches you the important stuff, you only get that by being taken on package holidays during term time.....
😉
Honestly - **** off. That's just a stupid comment even for STW.
is that what you learned on these amazingly educational holidays? I'll need to get a caravan and see if I can sharpen my debating skills to be as awesome as yours.
What kind of education teaches people to make ridiculous generalisations?
is that what you learned on these amazingly educational holidays? I'll need to get a caravan and see if I can sharpen my debating skills to be as awesome as yours.
He's right though, it was a stupid comment, and as such didn't merit debating.
Hang on. Is this the STW version of a Monty Python sketch I seem to have stumbled across?
Hang on. Is this the STW version of a Monty Python sketch I seem to have stumbled across?
Who the **** are you insulting now?
🙂
is that what you learned on these amazingly educational holidays? I'll need to get a caravan and see if I can sharpen my debating skills to be as awesome as yours.
They certainly need a lot of sharpening going by this performance!
I've held off reading this thread till now. All it has taught me is that if the chips on your shoulders get too big they eventually turn into blinkers.
Having kids and fitting work around them restricted our income. Our restricted income meant we couldn't afford expensive holidays at any time of the year. Ergo, we have cheap holidays whenever our kids educational requirements allow.
We went to school often enough ourselves so that we were capable of figuring it out when we made the lifestyle choice to have kids.
Well put MoreCashThanDash.
And thread ends....
Having kids and fitting work around them restricted our income. Our restricted income meant we couldn't afford expensive holidays at any time of the year. Ergo, we have cheap holidays whenever our kids educational requirements allow.
I'd suggest this is the attitude of the vast, yes, vast majority of parents. I think those making ridiculous generalisations would be a bit disappointed by this news though.
I think those making ridiculous generalisations would be a bit disappointed by this news though.
😀
Not sure if surfer agreeing with me or taking the piss out of me. 🙂
"SUPPLY and demand: remember them? If the demand for a good or service goes up, and its supply doesn’t increase as much, then prices go up. If supply increases, and demand doesn’t, prices go down. It’s not rocket science, and it explains just about everything about our society. It is the reason why some takeaways charge less on Monday nights, why champagne costs more than water and why people with PhDs in mathematics earn more than people with no qualifications. It’s a tragedy that the public debate remains depressingly unable to understand the implications of such basic microeconomics.
Take the cost of holidays. It is more expensive to travel at peak times, when everybody else also wants to go on holiday, than during the low season, when children are at school and employees at work. To those who understand how the world works, that makes sense and is the sign of a system that is working. It ensures an efficient allocation of resources, with price signals incentivising people who don’t have to travel during school holidays to wait until a less busy period.
Yet many members of the public – including the large number of signatories of a recent petition on the subject – are shocked by this. To them, it is a disgrace and an obvious case of profiteering; some even believe it to be a giant conspiracy. MPs will be moaning about all of this shortly in Parliament.
I don’t get it. What are holiday companies meant to do when demand shoots up? Keep prices constant? Cut them even, driving consumers into a frenzy? And presumably, given the collapse in revenues, they would have to jack up their prices during the rest of the year, when fewer people want to travel, to remain afloat financially? That would mean emptier hotels and flights for most of the year and a decline in the total number of annual travellers (the same number would go on holiday, albeit more cheaply, during sold-out peak times, while fewer would do so during the rest of the year). This would be followed by the mass bankruptcy of travel companies, hotels and even airlines. Competition would be reduced, prices would rise and choice would be restricted. Trying to buck market forces is always a dumb idea.
What about the idea that the whole thing is a giant conspiracy? There may at times be instances of anti-competitive behaviour by some players in some markets (though a US judge dismissed one major case last week). In the UK, the Office for Fair Trading recently pushed through some changes: it thought that some restrictions on discounting limited competition on room rates between online travel agents and hotels’ websites. Whether this was a significant problem and whether the reforms will make any real difference remains to be seen – but it won’t affect the basic economics of the industry.
The simple truth is that the modern travel market is highly competitive overall. Consumers can buy tickets from a myriad of cut-throat low cost airlines; they can book a trip directly with one of hundreds of thousands of hotels around the world. There is more information, accountability and feedback than ever before.
There are only two ways scarce goods or services can be allocated: either via the price system, by allowing markets to clear freely; or through rationing, which would require the government choosing who can travel and when and at what price. The second option would not only destroy the travel industry but it would also annihilate liberty and the freedom of choice. Some problems could be alleviated if schools varied term dates – but families often have children in different schools so this isn’t always practical. We would all like cheaper prices all of the time. But that’s silly: travelling will always cost more when most people want to go on holiday. It’s a feature of a well-functioning system, not a bug.
Not sure if surfer agreeing with me or taking the piss out of me.
Agreeing DD as always!
Theres a lot wrong with that Woppit.
In France? How about French? I can speak a useful amount of French, and could in school far better than any of my classmates. Guess why.
How much do you think you would have learned in two weeks on a Eurocamp site? Playing with English kids? Where the staff are English speaking?
J'ai learné bowcoop de frenchaise a le Yoorocamp
Is a caravan automatically an indication of wealth? What if it was a very old caravan?
Just means his parents were richer than ours. Didn't mean that my mum and dad took me out of school to go on holiday because they didn't have the money to go out of term, though - as responsible parents, they just took the holidays they could afford during the school holidays. Don't really see what's wrong with that?
We stayed at Eurocamp a few times. Got plenty of practice in French when out and about.
Hanging around the site speaking English isn't mandatory. Just because some people don't have educational holidays for their kids, doesn't mean no-one does. I'm sure that many people wouldn't bother doing anything educational, but many would. And being abroad gives kids opportunities that they can't get here. That's why they organise exchange trips after all.
So perhaps teachers should work with parents who wish to take their kids out of school to make their trip educational and worthwhile. Which many do, of course.
Incidentally, I just checked the prices of the flights we'd take to the US to visit family. The lowest is about £500pp off season to £730 ish in the summer hols. Nothing like as big of a hike as some people are talking about. Perhaps choosing your destination wisely helps?
Theres a lot wrong with that Woppit.
Such as?
a_a - apparently this thread still has some legs to it after all 🙄
Just means his parents were richer than ours
Does it? How do you know how much money his parents had? Do you know the other decisions his parents made or sacrifices they made to be able to purchase said caravan? or is that not the analysis you are interested in?
Yeah perhaps teachers should be responsible for educsting kids when they are not in school too. Great!
Growing up in Ireland, wealth had nothing to do with whether your parents chose to buy a caravan or not. 🙂
Whoppit please tell me thats a cut and paste job and you didnt waste your own time writting it!!!!
We stayed at Eurocamp a few times. Got plenty of practice in French when out and about.Hanging around the site speaking English isn't mandatory. Just because some people don't have educational holidays for their kids, doesn't mean no-one does. I'm sure that many people wouldn't bother doing anything educational, but many would. And being abroad gives kids opportunities that they can't get here.
Yep, fair enough - but equally, the opportunity is there for loddrick to take his kids to France and not speak a word of French the whole time. He's spent 5% of his annual income on this holiday already - it's not like he's gonna be off down the boulangerie in the morning, or hiring bikes off of Pascal down at Locations Velo.
That's why they organise exchange trips after all.
I'm not against the idea of taking kids abroad - I'm all for it. But not at the expense of taking them out of school - nowt wrong with an exchange trip, though.
So perhaps teachers should work with parents who wish to take their kids out of school to make their trip educational and worthwhile.
WHY should they? Why should they have to take up extra work just because parents want a holiday they can't afford?
I'm not against the idea of taking kids abroad - I'm all for it. But not at the expense of taking them out of school - nowt wrong with an exchange trip, though.
Exchange trips are in school time though, aren't they? So what's the difference?
All I'm saying is, if you take your kids out of school you have a responsibility to educate them whilst they are away.
Does it? How do you know how much money his parents had? Do you know the other decisions his parents made or sacrifices they made to be able to purchase said caravan? or is that not the analysis you are interested in?
What's to analyse? His parents had a caravan and took him on foreign holidays - my parents never had the money to do that kind of thing. It's not like they lived a profligate lifestyle - neither of them drank, they never went out, and we always had old knacker cars. What sacrifices would you like me to use the ouija board to ask them that they could have made in order for us to have a caravan?
I can't believe we're now arguing that people with caravans in the seventies were wealthy. 😕
Exchange trips are in school time though, aren't they? So what's the difference?
A decent exchange trip should be more educational than a prolonged booze cruise on a campsite (or I would hope it is, anyway...) - all the school stuff is organised around it, so no-one misses out.
All I'm saying is, if you take your kids out of school you have a responsibility to educate them whilst they are away.
Yeah, I think that's fair enough. I'd just say - don't blummin do it! 🙂
So do you think having enough to buy an old used caravan and a Nissan Sunny is enough to qualify as rich?
Rhe way I see it, there's poor, normal, and rich. Rich people stay in resort hotels and fly places, and go skiing.
I can't believe we're now arguing that people with caravans in the seventies were wealthier than Pondo's mum and dad.
FTFY 😀
my parents never had the money to do that kind of thing. It's not like they lived a profligate lifestyle - neither of them drank, they never went out, and we always had old knacker cars. What sacrifices would you like me to use the ouija board to ask them that they could have made in order for us to have a caravan?
Dont know, you made the statement. I'm just asking the question. I suppose the answer is you dont have a clue?
So do you think having enough to buy an old used caravan and a Nissan Sunny is enough to qualify as rich?
Hey, I'm not saying rich! Just closer to it than my mum or dad.
(I shouldn't have got involved in this, should I...? 🙁 )
Just because some people have educational holidays for their kids, doesn't mean everybody does - in fact I don't think there is much dispute that educational holidays are the exception rather than the norm. Presumably parents should be required to fill in an application form before they go explaining the educational merits of the trip in order to get permission, and on return the kids have to sit a test on what they've learned? In fact isn't that pretty much what BillOddie's parents had to do for the trip to NZ?
Alternatively we could just assume that holidays will be non-educational, and politely suggest to parents that they don't take their kids out of school for them (and for those who don't respond to polite requests, find some other way to incentivise them).
All I'm saying is, if you take your kids out of school you have a responsibility to educate them whilst they are away.
How exactly do you plan to make sure that happens?
In order to make my position clear, I should point out that my parents owned a caravan.
Dont know, you made the statement. I'm just asking the question. I suppose the answer is you dont have a clue?
The statement I made was that his parents were wealthier than mine? On consideration, I now fully retract it, as I wasn't expecting financial statements to be required. 🙁
How exactly do you plan to make sure that happens?
Well when my nine year old niece came over in term time she had to write up where she'd been and what she'd learned in terms of history and geography (which was quite a bit). Treated it like an extended field trip.
Or, if going to France say, get them to write down when they use their French and perhaps supply some new words and phrases to use.
In fact isn't that pretty much what BillOddie's parents had to do for the trip to NZ?
Like I said I was 8 but I believe there were letters and hopps that needed to be jumped through.
I think the head was relativley relaxed about that sort of thing.
I also suspect it helped that my father was a Uni Lecturer.
Well when my nine year old niece came over in term time she had to write up where she'd been and what she'd learned in terms of history and geography (which was quite a bit). Treated it like an extended field trip.
From the US? Presumably there aren't huge numbers of US kids taking term time trips to the UK.
I'm not entirely sure that's what all the people signing the petition have in mind. Nor am I sure it would be all that practical for schools to implement that for lots of kids every year - you might be the exception, but I suspect a lot of kids going to Eurocamp don't speak any French whilst there.
Nissan Sunny
You had a Nissan Sunny.... We dreamed of owning a Nissan Sunny!
From the US? Presumably there aren't huge numbers of US kids taking term time trips to the UK.I'm not entirely sure that's what all the people signing the petition have in mind.
No, but banning term time holidays altogether would prevent the 'good' kind of holiday as well as the 'bad' kind.
So perhaps it should be left up to the school.
So perhaps it should be left up to the school.
Thats makes sense and then its up to the parents to make their case.
I suspect head teachers would rather the decision was taken out of their hands however. If they have autonomy then I can only imagine the pressure they will receive from certain parents.
Easier for them to say "nothing to do with me guv"
I've held off reading this thread till now. All it has taught me is that if the chips on your shoulders get too big they eventually turn into blinkers.Having kids and fitting work around them restricted our income. Our restricted income meant we couldn't afford expensive holidays at any time of the year. Ergo, we have cheap holidays whenever our kids educational requirements allow.
We went to school often enough ourselves so that we were capable of figuring it out when we made the lifestyle choice to have kids.
Just reposting this from MCTD as it can't be put any better.
END OF THREAD.
You havent been here long feefoo,have you?
