[Closed] School holiday and Term time holiday price hiking

Yes it's supply and demand, but it is at an extreme scale and bloomin annoying for anyone, not just those with kids. People who need to travel during school holiday seasons (who aren't going on a holiday) get stitched up as well with the pricing.

I'm a parent and it annoys me. I haven't been on a foreign holiday since 2007 as I haven't been able to afford it. Fine. This year we want to but I absolutely refuse to do it during school holidays. It's not just the pricing being up to 4 times higher, it's the over crowding of nice places ruined by pikey brits. ;o)

But seriously, I'll be taking them out of school. At our school if we keep to only 5 days there's no fine, so Saturday to Saturday is doable. Fine is significant... £50 per child per day. This could run into hundreds if you take a 2 week holiday.

In terms of the actual ethics of it, I have no issue with anyone doing it. It's up to the parents if they want to prioritize a holiday over schooling. For me, holidays with families are important and valued and cherished for years. Given that they close the schools at a drop of a hat for snow/wind/rain/"teacher taining" etc these days, and that my kids do perfectly well, I know they can afford to miss a couple of weeks especially at their age. It's not going to affect their life one bit.

I get why schools fine. They don't want people to "all do it" and cause emptier schools and kids to miss stuff. But in reality, the schools were never empty before fines were introduced, and missing a week is hardly the end of the world, even when doing GSCE's. You can catch up quite easily.

I think everyone should be allowed to take 2 weeks out of school per year unauthorised to account for holidays/weddings/funerals etc.

I had to write to the school to get permission to take my kids to my sisters wedding. They said it would not be allowed. Did it anyway. No fine.

As a kid never had a holiday.
Could never afford to take my kids on holiday.
My kids in turn cannot afford to take their kids on holiday.
Daughter is a teacher, spent 3 days of half term in school/work preparing class room for next term! She got an Offsted outstanding report last year but will be burnt out very soon if she doesn't slow down 😐 most of her wages go on nursery care for "mini-me" and buying stuff for her class 👿
Those who slag off teachers need to go live with or befriend a teacher(primary)

I half did a pgce. I know they (sometimes) work hard. But they know the workload before they become teachers. Its drilled into them enough during training. I say sometimes as not all teachers are so diligent.

And for the people are espousing never taking term time holidays. Live and let live. Stop being so judgemental on those who do. You should feel smug knowing that not having taken 10 days out of their schooling, your children will do better in life than mine.

Who knows, maybe those extra 10 days will give them enough of an advantage where they'll get in to Oxford and maybe even go on to become a conservative politician.

Doubly right on dude, the world needs more uneducated ****s.

Since when does a few weeks off mean you're uneducated?

To all those saying that foreign holidays are a frivolous luxury - were you the same ones taking the piss out of 50% of Americans for not having a passport? Or for being insular and inward looking? Do you not think that seeing the world is a tremendously positive experience?

I know, you'll probably come back and say that 'oh they are just spending 2 weeks on the beach in Benidorm', and undoubtedly some are, but some aren't. I had amazing experiences on foreign holidays as a kid (in a caravan, we weren't rich) and I learned a lot about history, politics, geography and a foreign language to a passable degree through the experience. If I had to take my kids away from being drilled on how to use apostrophes for the 20th time to experience this then I would seriously consider it.

I have considered taking my 4yo out of school this summer for a week before the end of term because we don't have a lot of spare cash and she they haven't seen half their family for two years. My youngest doesn't remember any of them. However it doesn't save any cash. I will also consider taking them out for a week in November because it's the most important family holiday on that side of the sea and quality family time is important.

I had amazing experiences on foreign holidays as a kid (in a caravan, we weren't rich)

Yes you were, your parents could afford the caravan, jumping to conclusions I presume there was a drive to keep it on and a car big enough to tow it, not forgetting the cost of the ferry.
Compared to my welder/housewife parents you were well off, we never went anywhere apart from the odd day trip to the beach 10miles away.

Amazingly as my mother was a teacher and my dad was a farmer we had limited time for holidays. We seemed to take them within the holidays and went somewhere within our budget. Just saying......

It's not about where you go it's about what you do with them.

My sister in law and her ex husband used to complain about the quality of students reaching them in university then took their kids out of school. Perhaps there is some correlation.

But if one thing life has taught me is I'd rather fight lions with a wet fish than try and talk rationally to a parent.

How much is child benefit these days?

jumping to conclusions

Dont worry, knock yourself out.

Perhaps there is some correlation

Or perhaps there isnt. Dont let that deter your clear prejudice though. As Hitch would say "what can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence"

It's called economics. Why should the government get involved in price fixing to suit people with kids

Nope its called politics. Governments of any hue intervene all over the place.

(in a caravan, we weren't rich) and I learned a lot about history, politics, geography and a foreign language to a passable degree through the experience

Since when does a few weeks off mean you're uneducated?

We're taking our kids out of school for two days before Easter half term, have sent a letter to school with evidence that everything was booked etc before the new fines were introduced. It's a big family get together and the place we are staying only had availability for these dates. I am not that hopeful that school will give us the ok but if that's the case then so be it (kids both have 100% attendance up to now, 8 and 5 so this is not a normal thing).

I do find the 'per child per parent' thing massively annoying though, why should we pay twice for managing to have a stable home life? If they can't come up with a fair way to 'fine' the parents then they shouldn't attempt it in my opinion. This does appear to be a feature of the UK government though who haven't exactly had a great track record with being fair when it comes to taxes etc.

I wanted to just lie and say they both had the runs, but the wife was having none of it as our goody two shoes 8 year old would've probably dobbed us in (the price to pay for bringing him up right I suppose)

Out of interest, has anyone come up with evidence that the price-hiking has got worse, or do parents just want more now?
My parents may have felt guilty for not spending enough time with us in the holidays, but I don't think it occurred to them that they were depriving us of essential life experiences by not taking us abroad at an early age...

If they didn't put the prices up all that would happen is that the holidays, in school holiday times, would sell out instantly with only the same percentage of people going. Then you'd have everyone complaining that there aren't enough holidays available in school holidays.

There simply isn't a business case for running a fleet of aeroplanes and hotels that are only occupied for 6 weeks during the summer!

that's not the case though footflaps, as who in the right mind wants to go on holiday during a school holiday (unless you have kids). All the normal people will go as usual throughout the year, and while it might mean that the same percentage of people went on hols it would give those that found it a struggle to pay for hols abroad would a chance to go on them.

It would also mean that people would have less of an excuse to moan about being fined as if the hols aren't loads more expensive during holidays there's less reason to take them out of school. (obviously it would then be because they were booked and they left it until the last minute etc)

to be honest it's not an issue for me at the moment, as we've had nice fancy hols (by some peoples standards for the last few years) and I'm training to become a teacher and take a massive pay cut and be forced into taking hols when the school allows - but that's my choice so I wont be moaning about it (much)

If they didn't put the prices up all that would happen is that the holidays, in school holiday times, would sell out instantly with only the same percentage of people going. Then you'd have everyone complaining that there aren't enough holidays available in school holidays.

Or more likely if they didn't discount in times of lower demand.... having gone to the Costa Blanca on a climbing holiday outside of school hols (it's far too hot to climb then) we could book accommodation the day before we flew from a choice of 100 places and haggle on the price.

There will be the same number of cheap seats on the planes & trains in school holidays just 100x as many people going for them.

Surely it's not price hikes as such, it's supply and demand based discounting in term time aimed at the elderly etc.
What about people who work in schools that have kids, how can they take hols during term time?

Or more likely if they didn't discount in times of lower demand.

They don't have a choice, if they didn't have lower prices they wouldn't sell enough seats and go out of business.

As with any business they price their product at he maximum the market will stand. Running a holiday company is not a very profitable business, the good ones get by on a few % profit margin. You only have to google "Thomas Cook losses" to see they have been subsidising all their customer's holidays for a good few years.

What about people who work in schools that have kids, how can they take hols during term time?

*insert destination applicable

Tbf people who work in schools know the obvious restrictions before they accepted the job. I'm sure the 6 weeks over summer softens the blow somewhat...

Interesting to see people taking their children out of school for holidays and get-togethers and weddings. Just not that sure I'd rank that over education - I know damn well my parents wouldn't have done. Loddrick saying his kids deserve a holiday - seriously?

Another thing as well is people thinking that taking their kids out of school just means the kids have got work to catch up on. What about the work the teachers have to do to get them up to speed? Not bothered about increasing their workload to the detriment of the rest of their pupils?

loddrik - Member
Tbf people who work in schools know the obvious restrictions before they accepted the job.

Of course, an 8 year old will suffer a lifelong academic handicap by missing those 10 days.

[img] [/img]

Tbf people who work in schools [b]and people who have kids[/b] know the obvious restrictions before they accepted the job. I'm sure the 6 weeks over summer softens the blow somewhat...

FTFY. Or were you not told?

Another thing as well is people thinking that taking their kids out of school just means the kids have got work to catch up on. What about the work the teachers have to do to get them up to speed? Not bothered about increasing their workload to the detriment of the rest of their pupils?

😆

My 8yr old is indeed preparing for her gcse's....

Tbf people who work in schools and people who have kids know the obvious restrictions before they accepted the job. I'm sure the 6 weeks over summer softens the blow somewhat...

Erm, that's not quite true is it...? The rules changed in September... 🙄

One wonders whether some posters really give a shit or are just using the thread to repeat their hackneyed prejudices towards parents.

loddrik - Member
Of course, an 8 year old will suffer a lifelong academic handicap by missing those 10 days.

POSTED 11 MINUTES AGO # REPORT-POST

Judging by your ill thought out response in most threads the academic handicap your child suffers is hereditary!

Oooh, it's all kicking off now. How to insult the dad and the child in one sentence. Awesome!

Dd+1
Fortunately darcey I've been both, so can see both sides. As a young couple we never ever went in school hols. **** that, waaawing babbys on the plane etc.
Along came the kids and in the last 12 years we've had some of the best holidays ever. In that time we've been abroad maybe 5/6 times.
Howevew the uk has undoubtedly provided us with the best holidays in that last 12 years, but we are a big outdoor loving family.

Judging by your ill thought out response in most threads the academic handicap your child suffers is hereditary!

🙄

Nice to know I've made an impression on you. I haven't got a ****ing clue who you are or what you post... 😕

That's they way I look at it too wrightyson. We never went on holidays during school holidays. However, there have been times we've ended up in places with families, no doubt thick parents with uneducated children of course. I've never seen it as a problem - adults, kids, everyone on holidays, everyone enjoying themselves. You'd have to be a bit of a misery to let that get you down. Though, judging from the posts here, there are some right misery-guts with whom I'm glad I'll never have to share space when it comes to holidays during school holidays. They can sit staring at one another with contempt across the restaurant with all the other grown-ups. 🙂

I know my choices will be limited by cost a bit more in a few years, though you'd swear I'd have had to have that concept beaten in to me with a wet fish according to the prejudiced.

In traditional Singletrack manner I will weigh in with my 2p worth without reading ANYTHING apart 1st post...

there are 2 issues here really isn't there.

1) Taking kids away during school time and the POSSIBLE impact on their education.
2) The perceived price gouging by holiday companies etc during the school holidays.

[u]With regard to point 1.[/u]
I was taken out of school for [b]FOUR MONTHS[/b] whilst in Primary School. My father managed to swing a sabbatical from his University lecturer job to do Biological Field Work in New Zealand. The Headteacher allowed us to go providing we kept diaries and took work along with us. We had a couple of weeks of School in ChCh and Auk but that was it. "It didn't do me any harm" ...in fact quite the opposite I would argue.
Being taken out of school for a couple of weeks so Mum and Dad can get a cheap trip to Turkey so they booze by the pool of a All Inclusive Hotel isn't the same really is it.

The education system has changed (for better and worse probably) since I was kid so I have no doubt I would be told in no uncertain terms that I wouldn't be able to take my kids for 4 months to NZ. Times change. You can't take your kids out of school during term time. Deal with it. Adjust.

Those same parents trying to pull little Toby out of School for 2 weeks in the sun will likely be the ones bitching and moaning about their kids poor grades and saying the teachers are doing bad job.

[u]With regard to point 2.[/u]
People now expect cheap EVERYTHING, bikes, books, CDs, EVERYTHING.
When they are confronted with stuff that's priced at RRP or where the market dictates it can be priced (and it's higher than they are willing to pay) they get shirty.

If Holidays were massively overpriced (for the market) during the School Holidays then Centreparcs will be empty in School Hoilidays and I'll be able to get four seats to myself on a flight to Magaluf. Oh hang on, No. THEY ARE FULL. Which means they are priced correctly.

It's simple economics.

People are confusing cheap off peak holiday with being price gouged in peak times. It's not rocket science.

My 8yr old is indeed preparing for her gcse's....

One wonders whether some posters really give a shit or are just using the thread to repeat their hackneyed prejudices towards parents.

You really think so?

I just didn't get the memo explaining that having an overseas package holiday had become a basic human right. My parents never went abroad when we were children, couldn't afford it. Can't say it did us any harm.

Tbf people who work in schools and people who have kids know the obvious restrictions before they accepted the job. I'm sure the 6 weeks over summer softens the blow somewhat...

Erm, that's not quite true is it...? The rules changed in September...

loddrik - Member
Judging by your ill thought out response in most threads the academic handicap your child suffers is hereditary!

Nice to know I've made an impression on you. I haven't got a **** clue who you are or what you post...

is that due to your lack of academic ability? 😉

You really think so?

I do yes. I wouldn't have said it otherwise footflaps.

I just didn't get the memo explaining that having an overseas package holiday had become a basic human right.

Can't say it did us any harm.

Are you sure you weren't on a long weekend the day they did "hyperbole" at school?

No, the only difference is that now schools can fine you for your apathy towards the education they're required to provide.

That's another basic freedom lost. If you can't be apathetic I don't know what you can be....

I'd have thought a kid missing a 2 week block could be quite a PITA for the teachers - depending on what's being taught anyway. Say the kids are introduced to a concept then they move into learning more about it - if a kid misses the early lessons the later ones won't make much sense.

Oh well, the underclass aren't so bothered about education anyway right?

Nope, we aren't.

[img] [/img]

Mr and Mrs loddrick taking baby wayne on holiday last year 😉

Nope, our area isn't that salubrious.

Since when does not going to school help your education?

Since always, when you can be doing something more educational instead. Not hard. You talk as if school is the only place you can gain knowledge and experience. It's not.

Yes you were

Lol... so everyone who isn't the poorest person in the country is automatically rich? We weren't rich, but we weren't poor either.

I take that not everyone's lives are the same wasn't covered in those amazingly educational holidays you had?

Honestly - **** off. That's just a stupid comment even for STW.

as who in the right mind wants to go on holiday during a school holiday (unless you have kids)

Well the summer holiday coincides with the warmest weather, the christmas one coincides with christmas, and the easter one coincides with a double bank holiday where you make your leave from work go further.

My parents never went abroad when we were children, couldn't afford it.

Would they have gone if they could have afforded it? What if they had had just enough money to go during term time?

Being taken out of school for a couple of weeks so Mum and Dad can get a cheap trip to Turkey so they booze by the pool of a All Inclusive Hotel isn't the same really is it.

Well your spin and straw man building managed to save us from having to interpret all that. Phew... dodged a bullet there! Good job your upper class "jolly" was purely educational 🙄

It's not rocket science.

Your right but its clearly flummoxed you 😀

Good job your upper class "jolly" was purely educational

Errr didn't say it was but 4 months living in a different country with (especially in Auckland) different Cultures probably didn't do me any harm.

But I did do school work and wrote a massive diary that I had to present on return to school.

So you are saying that the people taking their kids out of school for a couple of weeks will be taking school books with them etc? If you think that's the case, you're deluded.

Since always, when you can be doing something more educational instead. Not hard. You talk as if school is the only place you can gain knowledge and experience. It's not.

**** this. I'm out of here!
Roll on Tenerife, 8 weeks yesterday 😉

Lol... so everyone who isn't the poorest person in the country is automatically rich? We weren't rich, but we weren't poor either.

Never went abroad with my mum and dad as a kid, I never went abroad myself until I was 24.

Your right but its clearly flummoxed you

Not feeling overly flummoxed, would you care to enlighten me on what might have missed?

So you are saying that the people taking their kids out of school for a couple of weeks will be taking school books with them etc? If you think that's the case, you're deluded.

Not saying anything of the sort. Is that the type of analysis you picked up in NZ?

Not feeling overly flummoxed, would you care to enlighten me on what might have missed?

The letter "I" for a start 😀

You were richer than us, if you had a caravan.

Is a caravan automatically an indication of wealth? What if it was a very old caravan? 😀

You were richer than us, if you had a caravan.

Ok, fine. You don't have to be the poorest person in the country to be considered 'not rich' do you?

No, fair enough. But two weeks in a Eurocamp tent ain't gonna teach em much.

In France? How about French? I can speak a useful amount of French, and could in school far better than any of my classmates. Guess why.

Not saying anything of the sort. Is that the type of analysis you picked up in NZ?

Probably not, I was 8.

Sorry, what is your point?

I think he's bitter than having children turns out to be more expensive that not having children.

But that's state education for you, never teaches you the important stuff, you only get that by being taken on package holidays during term time.....

😉

Honestly - **** off. That's just a stupid comment even for STW.

What kind of education teaches people to make ridiculous generalisations?

is that what you learned on these amazingly educational holidays? I'll need to get a caravan and see if I can sharpen my debating skills to be as awesome as yours.

He's right though, it was a stupid comment, and as such didn't merit debating.

Hang on. Is this the STW version of a Monty Python sketch I seem to have stumbled across?

Hang on. Is this the STW version of a Monty Python sketch I seem to have stumbled across?

Who the **** are you insulting now?

🙂

is that what you learned on these amazingly educational holidays? I'll need to get a caravan and see if I can sharpen my debating skills to be as awesome as yours.

They certainly need a lot of sharpening going by this performance!

I've held off reading this thread till now. All it has taught me is that if the chips on your shoulders get too big they eventually turn into blinkers.

Having kids and fitting work around them restricted our income. Our restricted income meant we couldn't afford expensive holidays at any time of the year. Ergo, we have cheap holidays whenever our kids educational requirements allow.

We went to school often enough ourselves so that we were capable of figuring it out when we made the lifestyle choice to have kids.

Well put MoreCashThanDash.

And thread ends....

Having kids and fitting work around them restricted our income. Our restricted income meant we couldn't afford expensive holidays at any time of the year. Ergo, we have cheap holidays whenever our kids educational requirements allow.

I'd suggest this is the attitude of the vast, yes, vast majority of parents. I think those making ridiculous generalisations would be a bit disappointed by this news though.

I think those making ridiculous generalisations would be a bit disappointed by this news though.

😀

Not sure if surfer agreeing with me or taking the piss out of me. 🙂

"SUPPLY and demand: remember them? If the demand for a good or service goes up, and its supply doesn’t increase as much, then prices go up. If supply increases, and demand doesn’t, prices go down. It’s not rocket science, and it explains just about everything about our society. It is the reason why some takeaways charge less on Monday nights, why champagne costs more than water and why people with PhDs in mathematics earn more than people with no qualifications. It’s a tragedy that the public debate remains depressingly unable to understand the implications of such basic microeconomics.

Take the cost of holidays. It is more expensive to travel at peak times, when everybody else also wants to go on holiday, than during the low season, when children are at school and employees at work. To those who understand how the world works, that makes sense and is the sign of a system that is working. It ensures an efficient allocation of resources, with price signals incentivising people who don’t have to travel during school holidays to wait until a less busy period.

Yet many members of the public – including the large number of signatories of a recent petition on the subject – are shocked by this. To them, it is a disgrace and an obvious case of profiteering; some even believe it to be a giant conspiracy. MPs will be moaning about all of this shortly in Parliament.

I don’t get it. What are holiday companies meant to do when demand shoots up? Keep prices constant? Cut them even, driving consumers into a frenzy? And presumably, given the collapse in revenues, they would have to jack up their prices during the rest of the year, when fewer people want to travel, to remain afloat financially? That would mean emptier hotels and flights for most of the year and a decline in the total number of annual travellers (the same number would go on holiday, albeit more cheaply, during sold-out peak times, while fewer would do so during the rest of the year). This would be followed by the mass bankruptcy of travel companies, hotels and even airlines. Competition would be reduced, prices would rise and choice would be restricted. Trying to buck market forces is always a dumb idea.

What about the idea that the whole thing is a giant conspiracy? There may at times be instances of anti-competitive behaviour by some players in some markets (though a US judge dismissed one major case last week). In the UK, the Office for Fair Trading recently pushed through some changes: it thought that some restrictions on discounting limited competition on room rates between online travel agents and hotels’ websites. Whether this was a significant problem and whether the reforms will make any real difference remains to be seen – but it won’t affect the basic economics of the industry.

The simple truth is that the modern travel market is highly competitive overall. Consumers can buy tickets from a myriad of cut-throat low cost airlines; they can book a trip directly with one of hundreds of thousands of hotels around the world. There is more information, accountability and feedback than ever before.

There are only two ways scarce goods or services can be allocated: either via the price system, by allowing markets to clear freely; or through rationing, which would require the government choosing who can travel and when and at what price. The second option would not only destroy the travel industry but it would also annihilate liberty and the freedom of choice. Some problems could be alleviated if schools varied term dates – but families often have children in different schools so this isn’t always practical. We would all like cheaper prices all of the time. But that’s silly: travelling will always cost more when most people want to go on holiday. It’s a feature of a well-functioning system, not a bug.

Not sure if surfer agreeing with me or taking the piss out of me.

Agreeing DD as always!

Theres a lot wrong with that Woppit.

In France? How about French? I can speak a useful amount of French, and could in school far better than any of my classmates. Guess why.

J'ai learné bowcoop de frenchaise a le Yoorocamp

Is a caravan automatically an indication of wealth? What if it was a very old caravan?

We stayed at Eurocamp a few times. Got plenty of practice in French when out and about.

Hanging around the site speaking English isn't mandatory. Just because some people don't have educational holidays for their kids, doesn't mean no-one does. I'm sure that many people wouldn't bother doing anything educational, but many would. And being abroad gives kids opportunities that they can't get here. That's why they organise exchange trips after all.

So perhaps teachers should work with parents who wish to take their kids out of school to make their trip educational and worthwhile. Which many do, of course.

Incidentally, I just checked the prices of the flights we'd take to the US to visit family. The lowest is about £500pp off season to £730 ish in the summer hols. Nothing like as big of a hike as some people are talking about. Perhaps choosing your destination wisely helps?

Theres a lot wrong with that Woppit.

Such as?

a_a - apparently this thread still has some legs to it after all 🙄

Just means his parents were richer than ours

Does it? How do you know how much money his parents had? Do you know the other decisions his parents made or sacrifices they made to be able to purchase said caravan? or is that not the analysis you are interested in?

Yeah perhaps teachers should be responsible for educsting kids when they are not in school too. Great!

Growing up in Ireland, wealth had nothing to do with whether your parents chose to buy a caravan or not. 🙂

Whoppit please tell me thats a cut and paste job and you didnt waste your own time writting it!!!!