[Closed] Tenants possibly smoking in my house???

Ask the neighbours by knocking on their doors ?

Sounds like the tennants are more trouble than they're worth. Especially considering you're potentially moving back there one day.

As for the other muppet on this thread... Someone needs to take you aside and give you a good shoeing. 🙂

Im more concerned about the abuse towards the neighbours, how do you go about proving that though??

we have been told by a couple of neighbours about the abusiveness towards them, also about a couple of shouting matches they have had in the street between themselves??.

I got a phone call from my father in law one night about half ten after he had been called by one of the neighbours he knows who live in the close where my house is saying they were in the street shouting and revving the car up ??

another neighbour told my wife yesterday she was verbally abused by an older chap going into or coming out of the house?

I've recently started renting again (after 10 years of owning my own home), and I must admit that I was surprised by the list of 'do's and don'ts that seem to be standard with the majority of rentals. A lot of these are 'lifestyle' orientated - no smoking / pets / children / parties etc etc, which seem to be a particularly unpleasant way of dictating the lifes of the group of people in society who rent houses. As Elfin said, you're almost pushed into a position of lying, as otherwise what are you supposed to do? Not have anywhere to live?

When we moved upto Manchester we rented. We were very honest and upfront and found a letting agent/Landlord who was the same. He allowed our dog and we ended up (overstaying) for 4yrs. We even redecorated the house at the end (we weren't asked to) and received all of our original deposit.

The Agent also did things when we asked them (repairs) and we received a thank you email from the owner after we left.

In no way did we have to lie and I'd never have allowed anyone to smoke in the house.

I'm not accusing you Sue (in anyway)- I'm just saying we were honest before we agreed to the house and the letting agent liked this honest approach.

I've been a landlord for the last 5-6 years and I would say this: If you are letting out your flat get a good agent to fully manage it for you. i.e. go for the fully managed service, not just tenant-finding.

I previously let out my flat using just the tenant finding service, and managed it myself, in order to save the approx 10% management fee. What I didn't realise though until I did it, was that by getting a *good* agent I was also to benefit from his expertise in knowing what to charge and how to get the best rent, so even after his commission I'm still getting over £100 a month MORE than I was before!

Not only that he's also furnished it and dealt with insurance contractors. Putting it in the hands of an expert is the best thing I could have done.

The last tenants were 'difficult', in that they left it not in the best condition, but my new agent told me that unless you've got a rock solid, signed inventory then you will have difficulty claiming the deposit back from the ADR service of the DPS, and it's a lot better to do it by mutual agreement.
For tenants who have been smoking, it might be best to make an offer to give them some of the deposit back, but keep some back for decorating. Obviously you want to make the offer such that they will be likely to accept it but that you will be happy as well. The ADR service is a pain in the arse to initiate, I lost patience with it and in the end just made an offer that was favourable to the tenant because I didn't have an up to date inventory anyway.
The other thing if you are letting it out is to try to not be emotionally involved in it, instead seeing it as an investment to be made money from. Make decisions based on the bottom line, not based on what you think you would like for 'your' flat. Obviously having an agent makes this easier as well.

thanks for the reply bonj,

we let the house out fully managed through letting/estate agent, cost me 10% plus vat per month.

I was considering not using them after the first year as i feel its quite expensive for what they do?

however your post has slightly swayed my now into rethinking that.

I will admit that it is hard to try and think of it as a business and not our house as there is all likelihood we will move back into it in a few years time.

We didn't really want to rent it out in the first place but i couldn't go on not seeing my kids all week.

Every time I read this.....

your right they do rent the house from me but its my house at the end of the day.

You should be thinking

"your right they do rent the house from me but its their rent money at the end of the day"

Making arbitary rules for them is about the same level as them telling you what to do with the rental money. If the house is damaged they'll have to pay for it out of the deposit.

My contract specificaly states no bikes to be kept in the house, can you guess which clause I broke first?

your right they do rent the house from me but its my house at the end of the day.

No its your investment vehicle.

Bonj you sound quite nieve to the whole landlord thing all the stuff you have said is quite readily available information found on the internet.

Renton as the owener of the property you are entitled to go and do an inspection yourself, even if the letting agent may try and suggest otherwise.

I would go and have a look for my own piece of mind. If there is any possiblity of you wanting to move back in you are right to be a little more concerned than if it was just a house you are letting out.

Personally from what you have said of them I would want them out, and the smoking thing would be the ideal excuse.

I never struggled to find a tennant for my property and my wife hasnt for hers, I guess its area dependant. If you get a good tennant its worth looking after them, bad ones IMO get rid as they will not look after the property.

Hora - from what he is saying it isnt just an investment vehicle...

*serious mode*

I do have some sympathy with the OP, but at the same time it is their home and they should be free to do, within reason, what they like there.

One problem is that a months rent as damage deposit rarely covers any damage or redecoration required. I've just received a quote for £900 to recarpet a one bed flat because of the damage the last tenants made. A £500 deposit isn't going to nearly cover that.

I'm not moaning though, because it is the risk I take when letting the place out and most of the time the numbers add up.

OP - IF you are going to move back in in the future, make a plan now, to put money aside for redecoration / kitchen / bathroom and then really try and treat it as a business transaction.

No its your investment vehicle.

The OP still needs to be dispassionate as its still a business transaction. Look at the plus's and neg's. Do they pay ontime? When is the next inspection due?

Also, on the otherside- issues with neighbours- is it enough that it could be recorded and affect future resale?

Everyone has a run in with a neighbour- most fizzle out.

Is it a case of chinese whispers? Friend of girl of relative who rents. A couple of comments blown out of proportion.

If they aren't two Dot Cottons I dont see too much of an issue- on the inspection a comment could be made 'it smells of smoke abit' (even if it doesn't)- 'could you smoke out of the back door please (nicely)'

from what he is saying it isnt just an investment vehicle...

Then he shouldn't be allowing someone else to call it home in return for money.

My experience of letting agents is always poor. If you are local do it yourself apart from the leases - or even do the leases if you are confident in legalese.

Tenents far prefer to deal with a landlord direct, you will be more proactive in dealing with problems than an agent would.

You've been lied to. Whell here's a heads up for you from a smoker:

At the end of the day the only time you answer 'yes' to the question '"do you smoke?" is when you know the follow up question is "fancy a cig?" Thats the gods honest truth!

And that situation has been created due to whining, moaning, sanctimonious health nazi's who have deemed smoking to now be on a level with kiddie fiddling. So now "do you smoke?" is a seriously loaded question, akin to "do you have a criminal record and an exclusion order preventing you from going near primary schools?"

EDIT: but as I smoker I NEVER smoke indoors, as it's minging 😉

I think the word you are looking for is Addicts.

thanks for the reply bonj,

we let the house out fully managed through letting/estate agent, cost me 10% plus vat per month.

I was considering not using them after the first year as i feel its quite expensive for what they do?

however your post has slightly swayed my now into rethinking that.

I will admit that it is hard to try and think of it as a business and not our house as there is all likelihood we will move back into it in a few years time.

We didn't really want to rent it out in the first place but i couldn't go on not seeing my kids all week.

In my own situation I find the amount of initial work alone that he's done in getting up to habitable standard justifies the 10% fee for quite a long time yet, not to mention the peace of mind that I don't have to lift a finger should any maintenance jobs - plumbing, joinery etc need doing.
In evaluating whether it's worth it for you, you probably need to consider whether he's doing the job you expect him to be doing. If you're needing to step in to sort stuff the agent should be doing, then maybe you need to get a better one. But there probably won't be much difference in the prices they charge.
If there isn't anything that needs doing, then you've got to basically regard it as an insurance policy for in case anything does - weighing up how likely something is to need doing and how difficult/costly it is for you to do it yourself.

There's a difference between "no smokers" and "no smoking in the house," surely.

The latter doesn't seem a wholly unreasonable request to me, cigarette smoke is particularly pervasive and covers everything in sticky yellow unpleasantness, I can imagine it being particularly difficult / expensive to clean up after someone's smoked in a room for a prolonged period.

The former, however, is simply prejudice. Would we tolerate a "no smokers, no Asians, no pets, no homosexuals" clause?

Like insurance, it's all about awarness of risks and the chance of such risks being factored into costs. Learnt this to my cost.

If a tenant has pets there is a greater chance of increased wear and tear - fact. And wear and tear costs the landlord money.

If a tenant smokes in the house there is a greater chance of having to pay out to fumigate and repaint at the end of the tenancy or risk a delay in renting out - fact.

Same I guess could be said about parties and children I guess.

We let our house out and rent another for job related reasons so see both sides of this issue. We let our previous tenants have cats as we had a cat ourselves with no problems. When they left we discoved how much damage had been done to the carpets (stains in most rooms and scrated up patches). Our agents and the deposit arbitarators (can't remember the proper name) felt that the damage was not enough to withold the entire cost of replacement but 30% of it. We had to make a judgment call to either replace entirely and take the hit or leave. In the end we left them for another year but had to offer a discount to the next tenants as the stains were quite unsightly.

At the end of the day it has to be about money - if someone wanted to rent it again with animals (or wanted to smoke inside) I'd think about it but only with a rent premium.

If a tenant smokes in the house there is a greater chance of having to pay out to fumigate and repaint at the end of the tenancy or risk a delay in renting out - fact.

Cleaned thoroughly - absolutely. But repainted throughout between each and every tenant..... well I guess you can expect that but it'll cost you! It's all about what sector of the market you are renting in I guess. If it's a penthouse you are paying thousands a month for then fair enough - but when I was a student looking for the cheapest I could find, 4 walls and a roof was a bonus!

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Some "lifestyle" limitations are imposed because they are included within the head lease (if a block of flats for example). Right to quiet enjoyment of their own property for neighbours (no parties), no smoking in the building etc etc. The landlord may HAVE to impose these on tenants.

To the OP, I would suggest that if you don't like the smoking, don't renew their tenancy - just issue notice as outlined in your contract with them. Then deduct the money necessary to clean from the deposit. I had the exact same problem (the only 'bad' tenant I've ever had). He did a runner without paying his final rent bill but stupidly nominated his mother as guarantor (I'd advise having a guarantor if possible).

On another note- what are they doing in the house?

Could they have friends round?
Have sex in every room?
Or read the Scriptures and observe Sabbath?

If they have been smoking in the house you will be able to tell at the end and take from their deposit the cost of cleaning / redecoration [u]only over and above wear and tear of course[/u].

If you kick them out how long will the place be empty until you get more tenets? Lose a couple of months rent and you will have lost more than redecoration costs maybe? [u]I'd be very surprised if this was a valid ground for eviction[/u]

Hora, you have some strange parties.

Remember a few years ago, the 'Spanner' case?

That was one of Horas parties. Actually one of his more restrained ones. With it being a Sunday

In future just add a clause that says the Tennant has to pay for a professional clean at the end of the tenancy.

Painting after every Tennant is a bit overkill. 2 to 3 years is normally ok but it depends on the property and how it has been used.

It was a sarcastic post. Tenants can do anything they want within a house as long as its legal. I was referring to them 'holding a party'.

Tenants can do anything they want within a house as long as its legal.

And that's what got you into all that trouble in the first place, wasn't it young man?

There is also an increased fire risk, I think you get cheaper landlord insurance if you specify no smoking. Not sure what position that would put you in with a claim if they knew you tolerated it.

How would you guys feel if the mortgage companies prohibited you from having parties for the duration of the mortgage? Or put other restrictions on what you could or couldn't do during the banks' continued ownership of the property until final payment has been made?
Regarding the painting of the property, would you move into a dirty unkept house? As for me paying for it, just include it in the rental costs, if that pushes the price too high and makes it uncompetitive, tough. If it means the project is less profitable, tough.
Just remember who the customer is.

And that's what got you into all that trouble in the first place, wasn't it young man?

Thats what got Paul into becoming a Daddy! 😆

Just steal their deposit like every landlord I've had in the past has done - charge them £150 for a shower curtain, and steal the washing machine that they themselves rented from a shop. 😆

Don - There is a market for people like you that demand and get total cleanliness and that's great. All you have to do (assuming you were/are renting) is reject every house that has not been painted every 6-12months (90-95% of em at a guess). Most folks are happy with clean tidy paint and put other priorities first. Personally I look for a level of maintanence in a rented property as high as I would sustain if I owned it myself. But then we all have differing levels of that as well.

Out of interest do you repaint your house every 6-12months even when it looks mint from the last time or do you wait until it looks like it needs doing?

Just remember who the customer is.

In future just add a clause that says the Tennant has to pay for a professional clean at the end of the tenancy.

Before any of you landlords run off to create tenancy agreements, you might want to read about unfair contract terms. its all here
http://www.oft.gov.uk/about-the-oft/legal-powers/legal/unfair-terms/guidance

The Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 protect consumers against unfair standard terms in contracts they make with traders. The OFT, together with certain other bodies, can take legal action to prevent the use of such terms. [b]The UTCCRs can protect consumers from terms that reduce their statutory or common law rights and from terms that seek to impose unfair burdens on the consumer over and above the obligations of ordinary rules of law[/b].

imposing a full house clean would be a unfair term, but feel free to put it in there, its not worth the ink it will take to print

The rented flat I just moved out of was not professionally cleaned before we moved in. We moved in only a few hours after the last tenant checking out and they hadn't had it done like they were supposed to. They also had a pet which was contrary to the tenancy agreement. My missus has severe asthma and allergies, it took weeks of vacuuming daily to stop the pet hair affecting her.
It was not painted before we moved in, 2 years for previous tenants, we were there 3 years, so it hasn't been done in 5 years. I suspect my landlady is going to try to sting us for re-decorating, despite it being wear and tear.
We refused to pay a professional to clean the carpets and the sofa, as it was not done for us, we did however replace the mattress and pay for a full professional clean of the flat by the agents recommended and guaranteed cleaning company, excluding carpet shampooing and sofa cleaning(again, not done before we moved in).

The inventory says quite clearly that the place was not clean and tidy when we moved in but we have left it so, it seems this isn't worth the paper it is written on, let alone the exorbitant inventory clerk fees. I'm now expecting a fight with my landlady over it.

The joys of renting.

Bonj you sound quite nieve to the whole landlord thing all the stuff you have said is quite readily available information found on the internet.

Renton as the owener of the property you are entitled to go and do an inspection yourself, even if the letting agent may try and suggest otherwise.

But inspection is part of the job that you pay the agent to do - there's absolutely no point you doing it if you're paying an agent to do it.
It's like paying someone to do some building work for you and then barging the bricklayer out of the way and saying "[i][b]I[/b][/i] want to do that!"
If you want to do inspections yourself, don't also pay an agent to do it. But it comes back to the point about removing your emotional involvement in it.

When you move back in, you are invariably going to do (or get done) a certain amount of work in cleaning, possibly decorating, general freshening up, refurnishing, etc. - to get rid of traces of the old tenants and make it your home again. This is the point at which you should start to think of it as *your* home, rather than merely an investment.

However, you are probably going to have to do this regardless of how the tenants treat it, whether or not they smoke in it, etc. so in my eyes there's little point trying to pre-emptively mitigate this.

Just wait till they move out and THEN begin the process of converting it back into *your* home.

Is it not costly/a PITA for you to keep going up there and micromanaging? For me it's an hour's drive away, and it takes time, and time is money. I'd be better off spending that time at work earning more doing the job I'm actually professional at, and paying a guy who's expertise it is to maintain properties. If you live in the same town as your rented property, and/or you don't trust your agent, then YMMV. However if you don't like/trust your agent, you should get another one.

I had a landlord who objected to me leaving a mtb tyre outside my front door (property in the middle of the countryside with no neighbours). She even came onto the property and hung it on my front door. When i moved it back, she then taped a note to my door. This and other gems as pinching the house keys for 4 hours when i left them in the shed door for 30 minutes, means i'll never rent from "landlord managed" properties again.