[Closed] Teenager has both legs amputated in Formula 4 Crash

Better than a head injury and being a dribbling vegetable. Better than quite a few things actually.

Better than a head injury and being a dribbling vegetable. Better than quite a few things actually.

Seriously?

Poor guy suffered life changing injuries in a horrific crash at the start of a promising motorsport career.

Just when I was thinking how brilliant STW can be wrt some of the other current threads, someone brings it right back down again.

Horrific for the lad 🙁

Bit of an argument of whether to donate or not.

I felt sorry for him and donated my beer money.

True lots of people injured everyday too and we don't donate.

Molgrips, do you mean for your comment to come across as moronic as it does?

Must be horrendous for the poor lad.

molgrips - Member
Better than a head injury and being a dribbling vegetable. Better than quite a few things actually.

Yes. It's bad, but it's not the worst.

Anyway - there's a reason I posted this semi troll post. I find people's attitudes towards the disability of others perplexing. I've often read that the disabled don't want our pity. They want to be enabled to get on with a normal life.

Discuss.

Pretty horrific but agree it could have been so much worse.
(think Michael Schumacher)

Hopefully he'll find a new path to follow, the kind of drive he must have to succeed in motorsport could see him do well in para-sport.
(think Alex Zanardi)

Does having no legs preclude participation in motorsport? Genuine question - obviously he won't be able to use pedals, but could you legitimately compete using hand controls?

Yes, many have, do, and continue to do so. A paralysed friend of mine used to race quads competitively, with some success!

Does having no legs preclude participation in motorsport?

If Douglas Barder can fly a plane with no legs there's no reason why not.

I'm more on Mol's side here, dreadful thing to happen but he can still have a life. Got a nice nest-egg now too.

No, plenty of competitors with vary degrees of disabilities, I know of a guy who drifts without the use of his arms (very impressive, steers with his feet) and many others racing using hand controls.

I think at 17 I would have struggled to get my head around not having legs any more for quite a while. Mind you at 44 it would be tough too.

I do wonder if things like motorsport are harder now when you get injured than it used to be. In the 70's, 80's and before stepping in a car like that you knew there was a very real possibility of death/injury. You would be a member of a league of racers that had accepted that as a possibility and squared it with themselves beforehand. At 17 and as a member of the 'xbox generation' it would be a lot easier to get in a car like that in 2017 and make the assumption only a freak accident would do you harm and not really considered the consequences. Must come as a bigger shock to the system to find yourself broken now than then.

I was brash, arrogant and (in my head) immortal at 17. I think an older head showing me the consequences in full graphic technicolour so at least if the worst happened I could say I made a conscious decision to put myself in harms way and exactly what harm really looks like would have helped.

If Douglas Barder can fly a plane with no legs

There was a woman on telly once getting her pilots license with no arms.

Alex Zinardi raced in the WTCC after he lost his legs so all is not lost.

It's a shame for him, but he's not dead so it could definitely be worse. I'd rather look on the bright side than sink into a depression about an injury.

Bit of an argument of whether to donate or not.

+1

I realize it's whataboutism, but plenty of amateur sports people suffer carer ending injuries every year and just get on with life. He knew the risks of motorsport, rolled the dice and lost.

He's 17, has no dependents, the NHS is there to pick up the pieces in the aftermath. He has every chance of going through 6thform and uni like everyone else and leading a relatively normal life.

I don't disagree that it's a shit thing to happen to anyone, but I don't see the charity in donating to a 17 yr old kid from Surrey who's parent's presumably have enough free cash to fund his motorsport ambitions!

convert - Member

Must come as a bigger shock to the system to find yourself broken now than then.

At the level he's competing at, he'll have seen big crashes, near misses, careers end early... Not that this means you ever think it'll happen to you but it'd be hard to be unaware of the risks.

So sad for him but... I suppose a kid with drive like that is more likely to be able to take it and go somewhere else with his life in much the same way.

I reckon some of the broken-looking beggars in dirty clothes on the streets of Glasgow with only one missing leg would trade places.

i have to kind of agree with Molgrips here
while it is a truly horrific experience for anyone to go through especially one so young...he had an opportunity to do something that many would love to do and thats to race cars...this crash could have turned out much worse for him but he's alive albeit minus his legs but he can still lead a relatively normal life if he wants to
I've seen 2 compelling videos which to me say that he is still in a good position to make something of his life
first one was about a girl who had no arms yet she led a completely normal life...she used her legs and feet t do everything from writing/typing for her studies, feeding herself and driving her car
the second video was of a small child in south east asia...he was probably only about 10 years old. again he had no arms but his mother was also disabled and blind so he was her main carer...again he did everything using his feet to fend for himself and to care for his mother
like i said its bad whats happened to him but he still has plenty to live for

broken-looking beggars in dirty clothes on the streets of Glasgow with only one missing leg

On the bright side, at least shoplifting shoes is a viable proposition

At the level he's competing at

A bit of a tangent....

Genuine question - is that much of a level? Wiki describes it as an entry level category for juniors as a stepping stone one up from carting. Are you chosen by ability at this level or by the size of your parent's bank balance (or how much your parents are prepared to get themselves into debt)? I don't know much about how you get into motorsport - do you have to have achieved anything, driven a certain number of races, passed a meaningful test or been selected in any way to get on the grid for formula 4?

I saw this yesterday, and had the same sort of thought molgrips had, but I had also been reading about Matt Hampton the day before so that's probably why.

BBC says its a replacement for formula ford, so basically a step up from karting for those who can afford it. And realistically, for those that are good enough to get sporsored at this level will have to be loaded anyway, getting noticed at karting level costs an absolute fortune.

A mate of mine at school used to race karts, his family were minted but couldn't afford for him to do a national series let alone be competitive in it. He had a test in a Formula Vauxhall junior, but damaged it and that was that, couldn't afford to repair it.

Convert, you have to sit an ARDS test at a circuit which makes sure you are competent to race. But to answer your question if you've got sponsors or a big bank balance behind you pretty much anyone can compete regardless of ability, same as all motorsport really.

A full season of F4 is getting on towards £100,000 I think despite it being quoted as an entry level motorsport!

Hopefully he'll go the way of Alex Zanardi etc and not let it hold him back. Horrible thing to happen to any driver though 🙁

Mark - thanks.

£100K pa 😯

Is there genuine sponsorship for events at that level? Or is it mainly companies owned by the parents of aspiring drivers 'sponsoring' their child's team as a tax efficient way to fund their kids endeavor?

Jason watt continued to race after being paralyzed from chest down

Feel sorry for the lad but I'm not going to donate, not because I'm a cold heartless bastard (at least I don't think I am...) but for reasons mostly already covered. He was also choosing to take part in what is a dangerous sport and knew the risks, that doesn't mean he deserved what he got, far from it but if anyone should be donating to his on-going rehab and care it should be his sponsors and the FIA (or whatever the governing body is).

I don't disagree that it's a shit thing to happen to anyone, but I don't see the charity in donating to a 17 yr old kid from Surrey who's parent's presumably have enough free cash to fund his motorsport ambitions!

I think this sort of sums up what I was thinking when I originally posted it.

Think molly is just trying to put some perspective on things.....

Is there genuine sponsorship for events at that level? Or is it mainly companies owned by the parents of aspiring drivers 'sponsoring' their child's team as a tax efficient way to fund their kids endeavor?

Generally B

See Max Chilton in F1 and Tom Chilton in BTCC and WTCC. Decent enough, but no doubt helped by the fact that their dad was chainman on AON the insurance broker.

Don't see much need to donate to a privileged 17 year old. Many much worthier causes on the streets.

I'd rather that 260k went to the nurses treating him.

Young lad has to have his legs chopped off after a horrific accident whilst doing what he loved, and you lot are debating how bad it really is for him? What a bunch of tossers

Agreed, legend, feels pretty distasteful. it was a nasty nasty accident, having seen the footage, especially for a 17 yr old, maybe it's better to decide individually and privately if we wish to donate or not, and not take the discussion in a direction of who's worthy or not?

I feel sorry for him, but I wont be donating to a posh boy with money as others have said - and that's coming from someone who was childhood friends with Matt Hampsons younger brother.

Suprised you can get cockpit intrusion and total your legs in Formula 4 tbh, considering the insane energies that the crash boxes in F1 can survive.

Have a look at the video (widely available on YouTube) - it was a nasty accident.

My niece lives with a chap who is well known for having had his legs blown off in Afghanistan. He leads a pretty normal life except that he's a bit shorter without the prostheses. He will never need to work again though as he's being well cared-for financially.

And why are we assuming he is priveliged? Many families work their arses off and get into massive debt 'pursuing dreams' and he was sponsored as far as I know, no knowledge of the family finances!

I saw this yesterday, and had the same sort of thought molgrips had, but I had also been reading about Matt Hampton the day before so that's probably why.

Matt Hamp[b]s[/b]on.

Sorry for being pedantic, but if people want to look him up, I thought I'd give the correct name.
Amazing what he's done since his injury.

And why are we assuming he is priveliged?

Some families could never afford a motorsport habit, regardless of how hard they worked. I'd go so far as to say 'most' families couldn't.

I was watching this with my parents, he basically rear ended a crashed car at full speed! Very sorry for the lad.

I don't normally watch any car based racing, but I was a bit shocked at what goes on in the lower levels of car motorsport, there where more cars on the grass than on the track for most of it!

Think its great that some people want to help. 🙂

and you lot are debating how bad it really is for him? What a bunch of tossers

maybe it's better to decide individually and privately if we wish to donate or not, and not take the discussion in a direction of who's worthy or not?

illuminating that people can read the same thread completely differently. I think there is an interesting debate to be had, especially around the likes of justgiving pages and the differing levels of publicity different victims receive. Who can name another victim of the last London attack other than PC Keith Palmer without resorting to Google, and how much did their justgiving pages raise? (and I'm a serving police officer before I derail the thread by being completely misinterpreted or accused of missing the point). This accident is getting national media attention because it's motorsport and big-name F1 drivers are getting behind it- how many 17yr olds have suffered life-changing injuries in conventional road accidents in the last 12 months, and how many made anything more than the local paper?

As above. I'm discussing attitudes to disabilities, didn't think that was a tossery thing to be doing.

Better than a head injury and being a dribbling vegetable. Better than quite a few things actually

Nope, that's just you saying comparing his injuries to others for no apparent reason. ''Tis but a scratch I assume? Your earlier justification doesn't even make sense as no one had mentioned donations when you made your first post.

The thread was started with the OP talking about it being a shitty thing to happen. Then descended rapidly into judging whether or not he deserves money. Which is a shit attitude, and for all we know the money will help other people's causes anyway

Edit: cant help but feel there's a whiff or jealousy around this thread