[Closed] tear of meniscus (and other knee injuries)

keyhole surgery when i was 13 after playing rugby, mine was quite bad so took a while to recover, do the physio, be patient, mine was back to 100% within 2 years and been fine these last 20!

I had similar in my right knee, the hospital said that surgery may possibly make things worse.
It took about a year to sort itself out. No problems for the past 5 years.

Had tears in both knees
Keyhole 10 years ago
Not one single problem since

There I've said it now, I'll probably be hobbling tomorrow 😕

id prefer to not have surgery, just from the fear of it. Easygirl - how long did the recovery take? (by recovery, i mean time between surgery and first bike ride!)

Broke my ACL and tore my meniscus skiing in December, rehab has been slow but we are getting there. Specialist sports surgeon has held off operating as I have no pain (none when walking / biking but it does hurt if I try and hop). He says the surgery can only cut away miniscus, he cannot repair it so of its not hurting leave it alone (surgery always carries risk of increasing pain). He has advised to be cautious of certain manoeuvres which put pressure on miniscus like standing from a crouched position and to make sure I support myself with my hands when doing that. I've been advised that risk of arthritis is much greater but not much I can do about that. Likewise I am trying to avoid acl replacement surgery as I don't like the sound of it and I've managed with no ACL in my other knee for 30 years (also based on my age 50 the rehab will be that much longer).

So see a specialist (or two) get some proper physio and do lots at home / gym based on their programme and good luck

I got physio for mine, initially to get the swelling down and then to build up the strength again. After a few weeks I was allowed to cycle (not off road though) and this definitely helped it.

It was about 12 weeks before I felt it was fully recovered - I was following the regime the physio had gave me.

The advice I was given was that if you can get away with it don't get an operation but it all depends on how bad it is.

@HansRey - have you had an MRI, that will enable the doctor to see exactly what's up. I had one in France and paid for it, it cost about £250 (I'm trying to claim it back from NHS but either way it's worth paying for to get better diagnosis)

I had very restricted movement, wore a brace and hobbled around for 3 months, I aggravated the injury overdoing it on rowing machine 4 months after injury (trying to get knee better for summer riding) which put me out for a month. First rode bike after 6 months with rides of 5k, 7k, 10k, 20k and actually biking on flat / smooth ground is what doctor ordered (although to be honest I could stay away from singletrack descents, bumpy rooty ground is a little uncomfortable but it's getting easier). When I busted my knee 30 years ago I was back playing reasonable level sport after 4 months but I was much younger and fitter when I got hurt.

I found that walking hurt like hell, but easy cycling and swimming appeared to be no problem and I believe that helped to sort it out in the end.

I had similar in my right knee, the hospital said that surgery may possibly make things worse.
It took about a year to sort itself out.

Same here, that was about 15 years ago. No problems since.

My experience with problems in both knees is:

10 years ago
Right - diagnosis of bursitis (housemaid's knee) at walk-in centre, torn meniscus (from two consultant orthopaedic surgeons). Keyhole surgery, they found lots of inflammation on the membranes (but perfect meniscus). Cleaned it up, had a couple of courses of cortizone injections, and it's been fine ever since (running 10km, half marathons etc.)

Recent
Left - diagnosis of torn meniscus.
MRI scan, and it's inflamed under the kneecap, being treated with stretching and physio

I guess the moral here is that both my diagnoses were wrong, and I wouldn't get too down until you've had a scan (which was the first step after diagnosis for me)

I had to stop running, cycling and swimming for a year and took up weight lifting (upper body only) as a result, as I needed to do something. Really enjoyed it, been messing about with weights ever since and just taken up Olympic Lifting at the age of 42, so quite glad it happened really as it's given me another sport interest.

My right knee has a badly torn miniscus, which pops out at the most inopportune moments (eg. at the pub last night, high stool, knee in wrong position). Damn painful.
However I've learned how to pop it back in and carry on.
So as long as I can play football, rugby and bike I ain't going on no operating table.

(Actually did go in for the op, but the surgeon sent me home as it was ok at the time)

@footflaps - Rio or Tokyo, which do you fancy ? 😉

@footflaps - Rio or Tokyo, which do you fancy ?

Sadly I don't think I'll qualify for either even if I resorted to drugs.

I'm being comprehensively humiliated by 17 year old girls at the moment:

Did an acl tear last feb. Doc said i could keep cycling, but no footie. Still debating an op as somedays it can be quite sore in both knees as one is compensating for the other.

havent had an MRI yet. The GP said that it should be the next step, however it needs to be signed off by a specialist.

Good to hear of these things sorting themselves out. I think that a quick keyhole inspection may be a good idea, just to see what is what. I still don't like the idea of surgery (and 2-3 months out).

Has anyone got any recommendations on braces, which would stop me twisting my knee?

Full tear of my ACL and partial of the medial along with bone bruising, chipping and cartlidge damage.

Had keyhole surgery and months of physio, my top tip is do not rush your recover. I went on a static bike far too soon (without my physios knowledge) and it was only when my physio explained the damage I could have caused that I realised what an idiot I was.

Took me about a year from surgery to be back to 95%, now three years later I'd say it's 99% but I do get a bit of pain if I don't exercise regularly and keep the muscles / ligaments tight around the joint.

@HansRey - keep pushing the doctors, get that specialist appointment and MRI. The MRI is better than an exploratory keyhole, which I suspect the doctors won't recommend and the NHS wouldn't pay for.

I'd second all that's said above by others about rehab especially about how continual work protects the joints, I've had a couple of different physios, both very good and sports specialists (who work with pro sportsmen at national level) but second one has specialist equipement (hydraulic machine with variable settings for a "pyramid workout")) which has made a big difference for me

Good to hear of these things sorting themselves out. I think that a quick keyhole inspection may be a good idea, just to see what is what. I still don't like the idea of surgery (and 2-3 months out).

9/10th of the surgery is the inspection (cut holes, insert scopes, inflate knee with water, poke arround, repair tear if nececary). If they go in they'll fix it, not just go in for the sake of it and risk complications, infections etc twice. The scars are tiny, about 8mm long, one either side just below the kneecap.

I had an op, they found nothing other than a swollen sack of something which they cut out (can't remember it's name). I'm not convinced it was nececary, I think the enforced 3 months doing nothing (barely walking without crutches) afterwards was what cured it in the end.

I asked my cousin (physio to old people), and her husband (physio to one of the Leeds rugby teams) about braces and they said tubigrip or neoprene will keep it warm and comfortable and minimise swelling to quicken the healing process, but there's no need for a 'brace' (i.e. a full on articulated thing with stiffening rods etc) as the ligaments are intact.

i'll keep pushing. The healthcare over in Finland is pretty good, if you pay for it. Thankfully, the abilities to sit and walk are necessary for my job, so work are covering the costs 😀

I never realised that they'd need to pump water into the knee for the surgical investigation, but that does seem to make sense. Still, i'll press for the MRI

[i]Good to hear of these things sorting themselves out. I think that a quick keyhole inspection may be a good idea, just to see what is what. I still don't like the idea of surgery (and 2-3 months out).[/i]

Yes as Thisisnotaspoon said....the above is the actual op which normally is a quick trim and flush out. As long as you don't try to do too much too quickly(like I did after one such op) it should be fine in a few weeks.

If the surgeon is confident that its a minor tear you probably don't need an MRI scan, but clearly its best as it shows exactly what the problem is. Had three knee ops myself btw and the first couple were successful 🙁

Have pain in my knee since mid august after 18 miles trail running race. Pain is on the outside and underneath knee it self. Only affects running and walking. Cycling is no problem.
Went to see gp, but was told to put cream on it and come back in a month or if no better.
Very frustrating.

there's a Specialized Test the Best day which i've signed up for, this Saturday. Hopefully the news isn't severe.

Chrislou- that is quite annoying! That must be some supercreeam (or antiinflammatory?). Hope it gets sorted asap.

[i]Pain is on the outside and underneath knee it self.[/i]

That sounds like patella tendonitis (I am not a Dr. but have had that from running before)

Cream is Iburogel, so nothing too strong.

Thanks Debtz, will check it out.

Had meniscus and articular cartilage fragment floatiing about. Doctor thinks it was caused by putting pressure through the knee when I broke my fibula in Feb (finally diagnosed in may) took 12 weeks off from Feb till end of June went back to work and had knee debridment surgery middle of August. Have a mri next Tuesday to see how it's going. To me it seems ok but still catching and locking a bit, but not as much.
I can mountain bike, but 10 miles max and then it starts to throb a lot.

[i]Pain is on the outside and underneath knee it self.

That sounds like patella tendonitis (I am not a Dr. but have had that from running before)
[/i]

There are sooo many different issues and injuries to be had with knees, caused by many different things, so the average Doc is pretty clueless, as I have found myself!

Google 'runners knee' as that explains a very typical problem for runners that is normally eased/solved by rest/ice and ibuprofen.

My surgeon explained to me that running puts 6 x your body weight on your knees, whilst walking and cycling puts only 2 x .....which is why he said to me to give up running and cycle instead! 🙁

A few years on though, my knee has been feeling stronger and Ive done a few pain free runs.....so clearly problems can clear up on their own with rest.

There is no swelling, and pain will go away in a couple of days, but if I run it will come back. Doesn't bother me on the bike so might stick to that for next few weeks.
Annoying as I run to work.

I had MRI the other week and have got a "Bucket Handle" tear of left medial meniscus, have had the problem for 6 months. Very painful at the moment - seeing Consultant next week. Also have a popliteal cyst for added discomfort

I also had a meniscus tear in my left knee about five years ago. Was pretty painful before the op but came and went. I also had keyhole surgery but performed by a surgeon who only does knee ops. It took about two weeks for the swelling to go down in my case so that I could begin to ride again but the phsyio told me that some patients are able to walk out of the hospital after waking up from the op with no problems. Since then I haven't had any problems.......goes off to touch some wood.

just been to the specialist. He's confident that all the ligaments are fine (result!). It's likely that there is some damage to the medial meniscus, as there is some pain and cracking/popping when rotating.

He's said the next actions are to see whether i'm eligible for MRI and then possible surgery, or if i should simple sit and rest.

I'm 24. Don't smoke, don't drink too much. Eat healthily. Snowboarding in the winter and mtb in the summer. Hoping to continue these sports for many years to come. [b]Should i push for MRI+surgery?[/b]

Push for the MRI certainly, although they don't always pick up tears.

I didn't have a tear in the end so potentialy wasted 3 months recovering from the op (it was probably 18-24 months before it actualy settled down properly). I think the forced rest during recovery was what sorted mine.

Is it an age related problem? Now 48, last played rugby over 20 years ago, ditto for skiing. Only get out on the bike on a weekend for 15 - 20 mls - did have a job where I did a lot of driving though

I have had many knee problems over the years ever since I tore my ACL (undiagnosed) when I was 18 ...and have had a number of operations since. My advice is to listen to the specialists and have the surgery if that's what they advise. I think if a tear in the meniscus is repaired quickly enough then it can be successful. Hopefully, if your ligaments are ok then you won't have any instability - if you do then it's important to address it and not wait and hope. Instability will eventually lead to tearing in the cartilage/meniscus, premature wear on the joint surfaces, then arthritis and potentially a part or full knee replacement (my last prognosis!). Sorry I don't mean to scaremonger but I'm sure my knee would be in much better shape if I had had the correct treatment after the original injury. You should definitely push for an MRI and if you have the option to go private then you should do so to speed up the process - the treatment you will get on the NHS will be good but will take much longer. The good news is that cycling is good for your knee! I have had virtually no problems since I stepped up my riding and built the muscles up around my knee.

Minor ACL tear here, was a 50/50 whether to operate or not because my leg was still recovering from a previous injury, think they called it right not to go in, but for a long time i thought it was a mistake. Still, mostly works now.

just back from the docs. Told me to call another doctor, but he reckons that it will be a waste of time. He says that i should definately go for an mri scan, but that the insurance probably won't cover it.

I have the option of going to the hospital, but that will take weeks to months.

The finnish healthcare system only seems to work in the private sector, and even then it looks like they'll do everything they can to refuse treatment (just take an ibuprofen and rest).

today is not a good day.

Hans, I had an appointment with the knee specialists 'team' and they said they were going to do an xray. I said i didn't think an xray picked up cartilage damage which they said..correct! I said what's the point then and said I want an mri scan. They tried to fob me off, but I insisted as although I hadn't made a big deal of it, when I got my knee in the wrong position, it was like sticking a knife it it....total agony!

You need to push the fact that you are in a lot of pain and need an mri scan. it worked for me as they discovered a big 'fish mouth' tear and I was booked in for an op immediately.

Just come back from Consultant - need knee arthroscopy can be done in 6 to 8 weeks, followed by 10 off work

10 what off work? Hours or days??

Seriously, I walked out of the hospital on the same day and as long as you keep your left up for a couple of days you'll be fine for anything sitting down as long as you don't over do it.

Was back playing football in 3 weeks.

Depends what he needs doing. Explorative arthroscopy you can walk out, as with partial meniscus repair but full repair maybe 4-8 week recovery. I don't know the op's diagnosis but a microfracture procedure for articular cartilage can take up to 12 weeks, nwb for 4 weeks.

Had knee debridment surgery (tidy up with saline) and they are gonna have a bash at microfracture as in my above post in about 8 weeks.

Sorry - 10 days; I was surprised when he said that, I had visions of being in work after a couple days

I had an arthroscopy a week ago last Saturday, walked out 2 hours later and was at work last Monday. Stitches come out this coming Saturday and I hope to go for a ride on Sunday.

I've had my ACL's reconstructed in both knee's due to football and i'm only 29.

First one was around 2008, Completely ruptured my ACL in my right knee and it was a fairly quick turnaround to get surgery, even though it took me a week to realise something was very wrong with it and have it looked at. Physio only lasted about 10 months before I started playing football again.

Then about 2 months later the other ACL went when I partially dislocated my knee. This time things weren't so smooth.

Initially went straight to A&E as I knew exactly what had happened this time and the X-Ray typically didn't shed any light. Was told to report to my GP who performed a couple of 'tests' on my knee involving twisting and pulling it and was told I had some light inflammation, I asked him for a referral to a specialist to have an MRI but he refused. It took me a few more GP visits over a number of weeks and some rather harsh words before he referred me to a specialist. I had an MRI and the specialist revealed that not only had the ligament snapped but it had completely disappeared! He had no explanation for that but put me in for surgery which has left me with one complete side of my calf numb which still feels a bit weird.

Thankfully I can still ride my bike with no problems even if most other sports are off the cards 🙂

seems that a common trend is that these injuries haven't stopped you all biking. That's good.

I'm waiting for the meeting with the work insurance doctor, who'll decide what to do. That's in 2 weeks. Hopefully the MRI and then surgery.

The knee is getting slowly worse. It's now started to click quite often and walking any distance is uncomfortable. I guess that some debris (from the meniscus) has gotten loose into the system. Pah.

Complete rupture of my ACL, partial tear of the PCL, damaged medial ligaments and tore meniscus. All in one knee from the same incident.

I went to A and E after probably the most painful nights sleep i have ever had. Event a feather landing on my knee would have caused massive pain. They dianosed it as a spained knee. OK, i was relieved to hear that. However, for the next three to four months, my knee kept collapsing. Went back to the hospital where i was sent for an MRI. Verdict was ACL rupture etc. I was then told that i shouldn't have surgery and should change my lifestyle ( i was 25 at the time) and not do sports but do things that wont cause my knee to collapse. I disagreed and went on the waiting list for surgery against the consultants advice. Then followed 1 year of attending knee class physio ( circuit training for knees). Finally got surgery and then another 1 year of knee class. Due to the faffing, waiting and bad advice etc i now have arthritus in my right knee. My knee still isnt perfect but it never gives way, but i do get pain if sat in car for a long time, or kicking a ball for the dog. I dont play any sports anymore like football/rugby, as it is just not worth the risk of it happening again.

Should i push for MRI+surgery?

Yes & only if you need the surgery.
You need the MRI for a proper diagnosis , anything else is guesswork.
I have had ;right leg - anteroir cruciate ligament reconstruction & meniscus trim and left leg - osteochondral lesions on tibia & patella plus a cyst in knee.The left leg was initially diagnosed as meniscus issues - sorted that with a drain of the cyst and cortisone injection (ouch). I am happier to have had my knees repaired than to have left them to get worse.
Hope you get it sorted.

MRI scan tomorrow, with approval from the insurers. 😀

knee seems to have stabilised. Obviously swollen, but walking about is ok so long as it isn't too far. Aches in the evening, but a good sleep fixes that. Really looking forward to getting on to the bike, but until then i'm going to plan a rebuild of a local pump/jump circuit. Gotta keep busy.

Operation scheduled for 29th November, condition progressively getting worse - so can't wait to get it sorted

[i]knee seems to have stabilised[/i]

like I said this happened to me a lot I would have serious pain where I couldn't even walk normally to being pain free. It just depends on if the meniscus tear is on pressure point of the bones or not. It moves so sometimes it did sometimes didn't. In my case there was no swelling.

As far as the MRI scan was concerned I got to see the difference of being privately insured and state insured in the German health care system. I had private insurance and I could choose when I wanted the scan ( 'This Wednesday sir! No problem!') and they told me not use the main entrance when I came for the appointment but a special private insurance entrance with its own reception suite with free internet, coffee, cake and plush leather seats. I sat in there all of three minutes before they ushered me into the scanning rooms. Unfortunately I got chucked out of the insurance because I was in hospital too often so now I have to wait months like everyone else if I want any treatment! 😥

woody- good luck! great to have the op planned, although sorry to hear it's getting worse

roter- same for me, just about. When i went to book the scan, the receptionist asked if I was free in 5 minutes. I blushed. She then said that there was an MRI slot free in 5 minutes and asked if i could take that! Annoyingly, as we were trying to book it through the system, somebody else had just nabbed it. Still, to get one for the next day (today) is just great, so I'm happy enough.

I quite like the private medical system through work insurance. But with my personal insurance, it's a major faff and no quicker than going public (i.e. NHS equivalent).

had the MRI, even got a copy of the images and the analysis program 🙂

was fine, if a bit uncomfortable after 10mins

I chickened out of surgery for ACL tear & meniscus tear. 2 years on, finally running again and now pleased I waited.

@Hans glad you got the MRI it's the best way to really know what the situation is. Now you can get a more informed diagnosis.

well, after looking through the MRI scan with the specialist, he says that all my ligaments, cartilage, menisci, veins, muscles and tendons look structurally fine. He can't see any tears/rips/fractures.

As such, i've been recommended for physiotherapy, to see if there are any problems with muscle balance/condition or with the way i walk (gait?).

Quite satisfied with the health service. Relieved that nothing appears to be broken and i won't need surgery.

Perhaps i'll be OK for riding and snowboarding after all 😀

This is quite an interesting thread for me. I've always had crunchy graunchy knees since I was a kid - probably due to fairly frequently running/jumping off the garage roof combined with years of cycling abuse and recently had my right knee get a lot worse. GP said nothing wrong with it, it's just a bit crunchy. I pushed for more of an investigation after it locked up during a long hill walk (locked between 10 degrees and 70 degrees, made the final 2km a tad difficult to walk!) Swelled a bit, got better next day but now aches a lot and I have kneecap pain frequently.

Got it MRI'd after pushing the GP towards the NHS website as she still didn't think it needed looking at. Result is medial meniscus tear, enough to lock and make some really nice cracking/popping noises at times. In general it's just achy but it puts me off doing things.

Next move I got sent to a consultant physio who looked at my MRI and suggested I should have surgery to remove the flapping bits, suggesting almost no risk and no future problems. I'm not convinced and will be going ahead with the process just so I can get to speak to a surgeon rather than the physio.

People keep quoting an increased risk of arthritis, but surely there's a massive increased risk of that anyway due to having flaps of meniscus rattling around in a heavily loaded joint?