[Closed] Teachers bleating on about how hard they work...

Government ruse? Surely even Gove doesn't want to deliberately wreck the education system? Even if the whole Tory party is conspiring to make the rich richer they still need an educated population to do so?

Or, cheap labour?

Also, it isn't the politicians that create and implement new systems and procedures. These are created by teaching professionals surely?

Nope, much of the workload is created in response to government initiatives/changes and in response to Ofsted.

What the teaching profession really needs is for more people to slag it off based on half-remembered tabloid newspaper articles and the pronouncements of Michael Gove. That'll sort it.

All the teachers I know work their arses off and most are considering quitting because of all the nonsense they have to put up with. They do love to moan though!

Government ruse? Surely even Gove doesn't want to deliberately wreck the education system? Even if the whole Tory party is conspiring to make the rich richer they still need an educated population to do so?

so his latest thing of getting year 9 kids in state schools to do the private sector common entrance exam isnt being done to make the private schools look good? Lets enter state school kids in a test for which they cannot acieve the prize.
Oh and Goves(and any other Edu Sec to be fair) changes do directly increase my work load.

in response to Ofsted.

Ofsted is the Office for Standards in Education, Children’s Services and Skills. We report directly to Parliament and we are independent and impartial. We inspect and regulate services which care for children and young people, and those providing education and skills for learners of all ages.

So it's apolitical.

Also maybe your salary and number of weeks of holiday a year?

All the teachers I know work their arses off and most are considering quitting because of all the nonsense they have to put up with.

Working your arse off is very subjective isn't it?
Quitting because someone is trying to measure their effectiveness in their job?

Closer to £100k Gross and 16 weeks holiday a year

So what is you problem then? You get paid more and work less then them.

Ofsted do not force through changes to exams content and timing that directly comes from Gove. But if you think ofsted is apolitical you are either very uninformed, hoplessly nieve or just daft.

work less then them.

No. I have more annual leave than them. Not quite the same.

Besides I'm not bleating or am I employed by the state.

As a UK citizen I reserve my right to criticise our public servants.

But if you think ofsted is apolitical you are either very uninformed, hoplessly nieve or just daft.

Possibly all 3.

Serious question - Does the executive component of OFSTED completely change when the government changes? Wasn't it created by Labour?

Do you not see the news. Gove just failed to re-new the contract of the chief of Ofsted (labour one coincidently)and stuck a Tory one in power instead!

Outrageous!

Besides I'm not bleating

Really?

I'm assuming this has been mentioned already but wasn't there a study out recently saying primary teachers work 60 hours a week on average? I'd call that working your arse off personally and if you don't maybe you just have a crap job? 😛

Serious question - Does the executive component of OFSTED completely change when the government changes? Wasn't it created by Labour?

No, and also no.

Prior to 1992, schools were inspected by Local Education Authority (LEA)-employed inspectors. However, this system fell into disrepute because of inconsistent standards across the country and concerns about the independence of inspectors of local chief education officers and councillors.

The Office for Standards in Education (Ofsted) was formed under the Education (Schools) Act 1992, as part of the major overhaul and centralisation of the school system begun by the Education Reform Act 1988, which introduced the National Curriculum, extensive testing in schools and the publication of league tables. [b]The impetus to form Ofsted also came partially from the perceived unwillingness of left-leaning LEAs and inspectors to implement elements of the Conservative government's agenda.[/b]

You may be thinking of the bit where labour in 1997 expanded the remit of ofsted to include social care etc.

I'm assuming this has been mentioned already but wasn't there a study out recently saying primary teachers work 60 hours a week on average? I'd call that working your arse off personally and if you don't maybe you just have a crap job?

I frequently work more than 60 hours a week so my job must be crap! 🙂

I find that 60hr average very hard to believe. If that's the average then there must be a lot working far in excess of that. Link to the study?

Government ruse? Surely even Gove doesn't want to deliberately wreck the education system? Even if the whole Tory party is conspiring to make the rich richer they still need an educated population to do so?

New minister gets in every 5 years, wants to stamp his/her individuality on it to be remembered for posterity, so moves the goalposts. 5 years later the same happens. Unfortunately, if this happens every time we get a new government then there is no continuity, teachers get frustrated and the pupils get confused.
Not a problem reserved to Tory governments, but Gove is particularly bad at handing out ill-thought through missives.

http://www.theguardian.com/education/2014/feb/28/primary-school-teachers-work-60-hour-week

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/teachers-workload-diary-survey-2013

I frequently work more than 60 hours a week so my job must be crap!

Sounds rubbish to me. 😐

Can I just say a huge thank you to everyone here who isn't a teacher and has been positive about standing up for us.

I've come back to this thread thinking it would be people being very negative and verbally bashing us, and actually it seems to be a minority of misinformed individuals being negative and seems like there is a large number of people recognising that there are a lot of political reasons and media slurs that have caused a bit of "bleating" to happen in the last couple of years.

So thanks for this, made my day... (alongside Winston Dog's claiming to earn twice what a head teacher does (200k+ then) with 20 weeks off a year when he left school with no qualifications)

Anyone read this?

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Winston,

Funny you find it hard to believe when you have multiple sources above talking about their partners and the long hours (evenings and weekends) that they have witnessed them working... those posts aren't coming from teachers, they are coming from people who have witnessed first hand other people putting in long hours.

I find that 60hr average very hard to believe. If that's the average then there must be a lot working far in excess of that. Link to the study?

you seem to be implying that there will be a corresponding number of teachers who despite physically standing in front of and being directly responsible for a class of 30 small children for 28-30 hours a week manage to do the following in significantly [i]less[/i] than the other 30 hours:
planning
marking
meeting/phoning parents (30 sets of parents, remember?)
supervising student teachers
supervising/'line managing' TA's ( i am aware that there is a better expression for this in teaching but i forget what it is.)
supervising playtimes/wet play lunchtimes
appraisals/managment
professional development
mandatory training
safegaurding children supervision/followup
schoool plays
fundraisers/fayres etc.

Seems pretty realistic to me!

 

So thanks for this, made my day... (alongside Winston Dog's claiming to earn twice what a head teacher does (200k+ then) with 20 weeks off a year when he left school with no qualifications)

I corrected myself on this. Assumed heads were on about 50k, thinking more head of dept really.

£100k a year and 16 weeks leave. Left school at 16 with 1 O level and 2 CSE's.

Another arrogant bleating teacher.

I will apologise for my bitterness but as I said earlier I had some terrible teachers. No attempt at career guidance, no attempt to engage with me.

Now if you knew a "lively" 11 yr old, not perfect but not a "bad'un", that lost their father in the space of 2 weeks, who then started acting a lot more disruptive, how would you handle it?

http://www.theguardian.com/education/2014/feb/28/primary-school-teachers-work-60-hour-week

That survey data is collected by asking them what they worked. There is no actual checking. Even in the article it says that the ones who had worked the most hours would be more likely to respond.

Now that has to be flawed! If you are one of the hard core bleaters then you could easily exaggerate your hours.

Another arrogant bleating teacher.

You're the one boasting about how much you earn and how much leave you get. Don't get why you're still so bitter though.

The survey isn't perfect but it's better evidence than you're presenting (ie none). FWIW my friend reckons she works about 50 hours a week on average.

Don't feed the trolls

Now if you knew a "lively" 11 yr old, not perfect but not a "bad'un", that lost their father in the space of 2 weeks, who then started acting a lot more disruptive, how would you handle it?

I would handle it as I have done many times before, by abandoning my normal workload for a while to talk to the student, the students family, head of year and tutor before discussing, at length, what strategies to put in place. Once that was done I would ensure strategies were being used and monitor progress over the following weeks/months/years. At some point, probably later that evening/week/term I'd make up the hours because I still need to plan, mark, train teachers etc.

A lot of schools have about 800-1000 students, do you think you're at all unique in having a bad time? There are a LOT of students out there having a much, much worse time & many of those are in very good schools.

For the record "bad-un" is crap. There are only people.

Another arrogant bleating teacher

[img] [/img]

If you're not a troll you have major unresolved issues regarding your schooling.

You had some shit teachers. Move on.

We have 2000 students, and I teach around a hundred of them. Most years, we deal with deaths of parents, deaths of other students, being made homeless, psychological issues, drink and drug problems.

You're the one boasting about how much you earn and how much leave you get. Don't get why you're still so bitter though.

That was in response to an arrogant, sarcastic remark from a teacher, when I initially mention the crappy education I had received.

That survey is ridiculous. So a survey commissioned by your employer, to find out how many hours you work, so this can be addressed, by either making your job easier or pay you more money. There is no audit or cross check to your response and I would guess it was anonymous. So are you going to make sure you get the message across by probably putting the hours for a "one off" week as if it was normal?

FWIW my friend reckons she works about 50 hours a week on average.

That's not a lot for a professional person. Considering a lot of that will include the extra curricula stuff, sport, plays etc. Not exactly graft is it? Add in the generous leave and it's not too bad at all.

If you mean that in my experience I encountered a lot of very poor teachers, who really didn't give a **** about the children, then how will feigning stupidity help with this?

I'm sorry about your dad. Clearly, your teens are a defining point in the emotional development of a child; you should have been able to access more support than you did. Your school probably did fail you in that case.

Take some time and come and visit my school. See what you think of an average teachers day. I'm based in Kent, and can put you up for the night. Hell, we'll even cycle in!

Take some time and come and visit my school. See what you think of an average teachers day. I'm based in Kent, and can put you up for the night. Hell, we'll even cycle in!

Tenner to the charity of your choice if that ever happens.

Measuring the effectiveness of a teachers input is always going to be a contentious issue though. I had teachers who had a major impact on my career choices. Though I don't know if any of them could have influenced my exam results significantly.

Good to see it is not just Scots Winston hates...

Now if you knew a "lively" 11 yr old, not perfect but not a "bad'un", that lost their father in the space of 2 weeks, who then started acting a lot more disruptive, how would you handle it?

I would talk to them about it, we would have shared experience, although my Father died when I was 2. I regularly talk about this when talking about smoking etc (he died of lung cancer).

incidentally I had a primary school teacher who had the whole class making fathers day cards whilst I was made to do maths. ****ing bitch. I added 1 to every sum I did for a month, that nearly sent her mad!!!

incidentally I worked 7.30-4.30 4 days last week with 7.30-8.30 on Thursday as we had yr12 parents eve. Did 3 hours marking and an hour setting work for next week during the weekend. No idea how many hours that was but that was a very easy week work load wise as I am currently on crutches due to a knee injury. Having surgery on Monday 🙁

What do all you other teachers teach, and in what council?

I'm Maths in Nottinghamshire County

DT in Dorset (just - our playing fields are in Devon!)

banks - Member

Some of you need to work in a kitchen/restaurant...

Funny you should say that . I worked for over 30 years as a Chef , 15 of those as a relief chef where you get fairly well paid but people only call you up when they are in a fairly sticky situation . I have worked over 50 days without a day off , travelled all day , arrived at a restaurant with 4 functions booked over the next 2 days , virtually nothing prepared and pretty much worked 48 hrs straight but in a strange way I always liked the job and now I am out of it I quite miss it . I have also worket for a year , 1 day per week lecturing at college and I found that incredibly difficult . You had very little real way to get kids interested and most were only doing catering because they were too unqualified to do anything else . I stuck it for a year because the pay was good and I needed the money but couldn't wait to get out . Possibly I just wasn't very good at it .

If I felt I could be brave enough to influence young people's lives, I'd like to teach.

I remember very little of the curriculum, but the sage words of Mr. Volwerk, Mrs. Walker and Mr. Hunter, looking back, helped define who I became.

To the fudders criticising, for 40 hours a week teachers get left with your offspring to fill the gaps in your parenting and that is admirable.

You'd take a holiday from your kids too if you could.

OP here, turned into a debate of some sort.

I actually have to say despite the holidays, teachers (or some ) are pretty good at their job, just like any industry some good some bad !

[b]I wonder what the week day crew will make of this post...there wont be any teachers able to comment...and if you are a teacher and do comment make sure its on your break time ! [/b]

Night folks

Funny you should say that . I worked for over 30 years as a Chef , 15 of those as a relief chef where you get fairly well paid but people only call you up when they are in a fairly sticky situation . I have worked over 50 days without a day off , travelled all day , arrived at a restaurant with 4 functions booked over the next 2 days , virtually nothing prepared and pretty much worked 48 hrs straight but in a strange way I always liked the job and now I am out of it I quite miss it . I have also worket for a year , 1 day per week lecturing at college and I found that incredibly difficult . You had very little real way to get kids interested and most were only doing catering because they were too unqualified to do anything else . I stuck it for a year because the pay was good and I needed the money but couldn't wait to get out . Possibly I just wasn't very good at it .

Never a chef, just a sous chef and i do miss the banter and carnage a lot. That weird moment of silence just before you get battered. I do not miss the 6 am to 12-1am shifts 6 days a week thou! Made working with ABA in a school setting seem easy..

Any teachers commenting during the day...

I am but I'm in hospital at the moment!

Hope nothing to serious

Fell of my bike a month ago. ****ed my knee had an exploratory arthoscopy.

Good to see it is not just Scots Winston hates.

Oops my mistake I have it , provoking a reaction on STW , he is certainly quite keen on that 😉

http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/1492912417/ref=tsm_1_fb_lk

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Teaching is a bit like fitting tubeless tyres.
If you haven't done, what the hell are you commenting on it for?

Teaching is a bit like fitting tubeless tyres.
If you haven't done, what the hell are you commenting on it for?

I've not been a teacher but I have been married to one for over 20 years. From what I've observed she does indeed work very hard (too hard at times) during term time, but that is offset by the massive amount of holidays. I did once suggest that it would seem sensible to me if teachers had shorter summer holidays than the kids they teach, as it'd give them some great time to do prep & personal development etc. - surely making term time itself less stressful. Never again however, as I was horribly savaged for even suggesting it.