[Closed] teach kids pounds and oz in school

I had major problems with my liquid helium plant, but it's nearly OK now.

Brilliant, I'm stealing that.

[i]Not in everyday terms - makes no difference[/i]

I reckon people can relate to frozen water at 0c, boiling at 100c a lot better than they can to the same events in Fahrenheit?

Not really. In the US, everyone knows water freezes at 32 and boils at 212. Not something that really needs 'relating' to.

The really nice thing about metric measurements is that they are all derived from other things, and there are only two arbitrary things in it - the metre and the kilogramme.

Actually...

In the US, everyone knows water freezes at 32 and boils at 212. Not something that really needs 'relating' to.

Okay - off the top of your head what is two-thirds of boiling point in Fahrenheit? 🙂

Obviously you can still work it out, but it is MUCH easier in metric (and thus easier to relate to as a scale).

I think all scales that are in everyday use should start at some seemingly arbitrary number and end at another.

We could have feet starting at -0.15" and ending at 16.73" and being divided into 734 equal points in between everyone could just learn the relationships between them?

What common every day reason would there be for me needing to work that out instantly?

Everyone knows what 70F, 80F, 90F etc feels like in terms of weather or heating; and people set their ovens to whatever it says in the recipe. Any other everyday use for temperature values?

[i]Everyone knows what 70F, 80F, 90F etc feels like in terms of weather or heating[/i]

actually, my kids have no idea. I'm pretty hazy beyond knowing that 90 is a bit too warm and 70 probably 'ok'.

tbh, I know that I set our thermostat to 20c during the winter but no idea what that is in Fahrenheit.

If I'm cooking I set the oven to 180-200c for cooking meat, 220c for roast potatoes and 160c for cakes. Again, no idea what they woudl be in Fahrenheit.

I'm 48, was never taught F at school and have never had any reason to learn the relevant points on it that would be needed for everyday life.

Oh, I do know that 'body' temperature is 96.8F or something - 'cos there was a song about that.

molgrips - Member

Everyone knows what 70F, 80F, 90F etc feels like in terms of weather or heating;

I haven't got the slightest idea. I don't know how many fathoms it is to my office either.

What common every day reason would there be for me needing to work that out instantly?

Well you said people could still "relate" to the Fahrenheit scale despite its arbitrariness. I'm just pointing out that they can't really - they've just remembered a few arbitrary numbers on that arbitrary scale. If you ask them to do very simple maths on it then they struggle*.

I don't have an every day reason for you. But I don't have an every day reason for knowing the freezing/boiling point of water either. It's just not something I use every day. 😀

* (which is oddly contra to a lot of other imperial stuff which usually uses highly composite numbers like 12 to make the maths easier)

they've just remembered a few arbitrary numbers on that arbitrary scale.

That's no different to celcius. I know I need a coat if it's 10C outside, and I don't if it's 20. An American knows the same thing at 50 and mid 60s. There's no rationale to those numbers, they are arbitrary. The boiling and freezing points of water are just arbitrary anyway - why not propane or alcohol or whatever? You're overthinking this!

[i]why not propane or alcohol or whatever[/i]

because *everyone* knows what an ice cube looks like and when a kettle boils?

I don;t know why you're defending Fahrenheit, really - as above, surely we could just as easily use Kelvin as a scale of we all work better with seemingly random numbers for measuring temperature variations?

I'm not defending it, I'm saying that for the everyday person it makes no difference.

what is two-thirds of boiling point in Fahrenheit?

What's 2/3 of boiling point in C? It's not 67... 🙂

[i]I'm saying that for the everyday person it makes no difference. [/i]

So we can stick with celcius like 95% of the world do and everyone's happy 'cos it makes no difference anyway?

[i]What's 2/3 of boiling point in C? It's not 67... [/i]

don't you join in and complicated stuff 🙂 You still need to learn that babies weights are measured in lb's not oz's 😉

What's 2/3 of boiling point in C? It's not 67...

You'd need to tell us the atmospheric pressure before we can answer that one.

Anyway I can't believe this thread is still going. It was one answer to a deliberately provocative set of direct questions posed by the Newsnight interviewer to somehow gauge how aligned Camerons own views are to some stereotypical middle Englander Conservative voter. I can't believe it's actually become a headline. Certainly wasn't being asked to comment on any policy he'd want put in place. Shame to see the Guardian publishing such a misleading piece.

What's 2/3 of boiling point in C? It's not 67...

That sort of depends how you phrase and interpret the question really. 😀
On a scale of (standard) freezing point to boiling point, two-thirds along is 67°C

Everyone knows what 70F, 80F, 90F etc feels like in terms of weather or heating;

I don't, I haven't the faintest clue. Fahrenheit isn't something I was ever taught, ever come across in real life (without an accompanying Celsius measurement, rendering it moot) or ever had any compelling reason to find out about. The only time in my life I've ever needed to know what 'F is, is when discussing the weather with Americans, or doing pub quizzes.

don't you join in and complicated stuff You still need to learn that babies weights are measured in lb's not oz's

I've never understood why people are so keen to know the mass of a newborn; it's not like we're cooking or selling them.

there are only two arbitrary things in it - the metre and the kilogramme

Ahem, I reckon you should stop and think about that statement for a second or two...

Everyone knows what 70F, 80F, 90F etc feels like in terms of weather or heating;

Not a clue here.

Celsius is really easy: -10C is really cold, 0C is freezing, 10C is chilly, 20C is nice, 30C is hot, 40C is really hot, 50C is lie down in the shade.

there are only two arbitrary things in it - the metre and the kilogram

One metre is the length of the path traveled by light in a vacuum in 1?299,792,458 of a second.

One kilogram is the mass of a specific lump of metal, kept in Paris.

Perfectly sensible.

I don't, I haven't the faintest clue

I meant everyone in America.

Newspapers report hot days in Fahrenheit and cold days in Celsius. They say temps soared to 80f but would never say they plummeted to 30f

I've never understood why people are so keen to know the mass of a newborn; it's not like we're cooking or selling them.

Apparently the UK is unusual in Europe for this- everywhere else they ask how long it is.

One kilogram is the mass of a specific lump of metal, kept in Paris.

That is in the process of changing, because they want a constant kilogram, not one that changes (minutely) over time.
Watch the Numberphile video I posted earlier.

Apparently the UK is unusual in Europe for this- everywhere else they ask how long it is.

surely the girth is more of an issue for mum than the length.

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How many of the metric lovers navigate in milliradians rather than degrees?

Degrees (for angles) are a nice example of imperial systems using a [url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superior_highly_composite_number ]Superior Highly Composite Number[/url] to make mental maths easier.

But radians have a simple beauty too, when you introduce Pi.

Everything is better with Pi.

(But yes, you're right, no-one navigates by milliradians, that would be daft)

(Oh and degrees qualify as an [i]accepted unit [/i] for SI angles, so they count as metric 😉 )

Degrees (for angles) are a nice example of imperial systems

was that Imperial Babylon ?

Also in America, people generally don't talk about how far away a place is, instead it's how long it takes to get there.

Using the decimal time system?

"If we leave now we should be there by about 6.90"

was that Imperial Babylon ?

Yeah why not. 🙂 You think the British Empire invented the foot or the yard?

The article that started this discussion is a piece of nonsense but the discussion itself a valid one. As a middle age person I've had a lifetime of translating between various standards and measures but since deciding to embrace metric measurement fully it's all become much simpler.

Imperial measures should be confined to history, look forward not back.

You think the British Empire invented the foot or the yard?

no but at least they are Imperial measurements.

True story: when I was I think nine so mid 80s, we were having lessons on such things as decimal points, and I mused to the chap on my desk that we should have a decimal system of time. Kirsty, who was sat in front of me turned round and said in an exasperated tone, "We do! Digital watches!"

You'd need to tell us the atmospheric pressure before we can answer that one.

And linguistically, Centigrade is interesting, because garadians are a unit of angle (hundredth of a right angle), so centigrade is common in a lot of languages as a tenthousandth of a right angle. So by accident we've ended up with called "degrees degrees".

(But yes, you're right, no-one navigates by milliradians, that would be daft)

Hangs head in shame at owning a FB prismatic compass in mils... 😳

I say bring back the slide rule and log tables !

maybe we could re-brand some aspects of imperial as hexadecimal ?

Imperial system didn't work out so well for these guys...

[img] [/img]

Don't bring them into it - they can't even get basic parsecs right! 😀

the reason we weigh babies is that any more than 10% of weight loss in the first week is a bad sign, their weight goes slightly down then they start putting it back on

worth pointing out that the NHS use metric measurements of babies weights, it's only the older midwives/health visitors who convert it - and the parents/grandparents who convert to lbs/oz to compare with other baby weights they can remember

I weigh myself (and on the very rare occasions I put the kids on a scale) in KG, I haven't got a scooby about pounds or stone and I do body measurements in cm.

I would be quite happy with buying beer in 500ml glasses, this wouldn't be a difficult thing to do, just the chancellor to enforce it via duty, pubs replace glass on a pretty regular basis.

Fair points on the cost/benefit for kilo's on the roads

Fair points on the cost/benefit for kilo's on the roads

Don't forget that it might lower the cost of new European cars by several pence if they didn't have to produce a special speedo fascia for the UK 😀

Might also help European drivers obey our speed limits...

The French did decimalise time for a while or at least weeks not sure about hours and minutes etc.