So the richest get a tax cut from 50p to 45p in the pound, and this is paid for by freezing tax credits of low income WORKING families. Apparently this is justifiable as it will 'encourage investment'.
Meanwhile elsewhere, my own council are having to close 60% of public libraries due to cuts. Good to see Dave and George have got their priorities right.
Nice.... 😐
Perhaps they'll all marry someone who's looks you approve of and even things out?
Yeah but Sam Cam is waaay fitter than millibands wife
You could always go back to selling drugs lodders?
Yep they are freezing benefits for 2 years unless you are in their voter demographic.
I see nurses and mid wives are planning on striking too. Good on em.
I see nurses and mid wives are planning on striking too. Good on em.
It's the whole of the NHS depending on the Union you're in.
You could always go back to selling drugs lodders?
That ship has long since sailed, would have put me in a higher tax bracket though.
same old tory story ..
getting more in work than ever before, unemployment falling, cutting council waste fastest growing economy in developed world. the only party committed to an in out referendum on europe. getting dr's to be open 7 days a week, 12 hours a day.
in fact putting right all the stuff gormless brown, ed ballsup and tony bliar got wrong. heaven forbid that oik wrong milliband becomes prime minister
I am no expert on the subject but didn't a study show that lowering the high earner tax rate actually put more money into the public purse rather than less? Something to do with people in that tax bracket choosing which country they pay their tax rather than us plebs on PAYE.
same old tory story ..
getting more in work than ever before, unemployment falling, cutting council waste fastest growing economy in developed world. the only party committed to an in out referendum on europe. getting dr's to be open 7 days a week, 12 hours a day.
in fact putting right all the stuff gormless brown, ed ballsup and tony bliar got wrong. heaven forbid that oik wrong milliband becomes prime minister
🙄
my own council are having to close 60% of public libraries due to cuts
They don't [b]have[/b] to close them, they could have put your council tax up instead
same old tory story ..
Vacuous spin you mean?
Unemployment falling.. because the global financial crisis is easing.. but would it have been better under anyone else? You have no idea.
How can people be so thick as to not understand this? It undermines the whole concept of democracy.
You could always go back to selling drugs lodders?
Quite right, pharmacy is a well-paid occupation.
The top rate of tax was raised from 40+2 to 50+2 (inc NI) and the Tories reduced the rate back to 45, still an increase relative to the longer term. It is well documented that higher rates of tax often lead to lower amounts collected as businesses and individuals relocate and/or change their tax planning.
Cuts in public services have been necessary due to the excessive debts run up by the prior Labour government and which where spiralling out of control.
Which people are struggling to pay anyway. My city is the poorest in the country, putting up council tax not really an option. Either way, the poorest will be hit hardest.
putting up council tax not really an option.
How do you expect local services to be paid for then? the magic money tree?
If taxpayers want something, shouldn't they have to pay for it?
Have you ever heard of the concept of 'the parade of the bleeding stumps'? I'll bet my bike that there hasn't been a 60% cut in councillors expenses and diversity officers!
Cuts in public services have been necessary due to the [s]excessive debts run up by the prior Labour government[/s] global financial crisis
Choose your spin.
getting more in work than ever before, unemployment falling, cutting council waste fastest growing economy in developed world. the only party committed to an in out referendum on europe. getting dr's to be open 7 days a week, 12 hours a day.
😆
Cuts in public services have been necessary due to the excessive debts run up by the prior Labour government and which where spiralling out of control.
Careful, the lefties don't like the truth.. 🙂
For the last 4 years its been blah... blah.... blah... 'Hard Working Families' this, blah... blah.... blah... 'Hard Working Families' that....
'Hard Working Families', 'Hard Working Families' , oh... did we mention we're all for 'Hard Working Families' . We love 'Hard Working Families' us. All for 'Hard Working Families'.
Oh... actually when we said 'Hard Working Families', what we really meant was nice middle class, Tory voting 'Hard Working Families'. Not the horrid poor ones. Ewwwwwww. With their tracksuits, and shopping at Iceland, and living up north. How frightful.
So the benefits bill is mahoosive because the working poor don't earn enough to live. Because employers refuse to pay a living wage, so we, the taxpayer, subsidise their profits instead. Private rents are rocketing due to the housing market going into the stratosphere again (got to have the middle classes feeling better off as we approach an election, haven't we?). All to be added to the Housing Benefit bill for the poor to pass into the hands of buy-to-let landlords.
So how do we address this? Do we raise the minimum wage to allow people to actually live on the wages they earn, without the taxpayer subsidy? Consider regulating the rented sector so that people aren't ripped off by profiteering private landlords
Naaaaah.... * that! We'll do what we always do..... just clobber the *ing poor again! Lets make life just that little bit harder from the very poorest people in society.
Without doing anything at all to address the actual root causes of the problem, because that would involve questioning whether this whole capitalist system we've built is completely dysfunctional. But then... it is our mates who benefit from it all, so who ****ing cares eh George?
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Careful, the lefties don't like the truth.. 🙂
It's actually the Tories who don't like to be reminded of the truth.
[url= http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/6975536.stm ]Tories 'to match Labour spending'[/url]
[b][i]A Conservative government would match Labour's projected public spending totals for the next three years, shadow chancellor George Osborne has said.[/i][/b]
Cuts needed because short termism by the last Labour government stopped them saving in the good times so there was nothing in the rainy day fund when it all went tits up.
Anyway, good to see the old Lodders back, was quite worried by his non-PC day yesterday!
The Tories have brought about the largest fall in average earnings in almost a century:
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Hold on. Is this a thinly veiled NHS thread?
. It is well documented that higher rates of tax often lead to lower amounts collected as businesses and individuals relocate and/or change their tax planning.
It is widely written and the logic makes sense but is it actually proven with hard evidence?
Oh christ. Can we get off the usual... it was your fault, no it was their fault nonsense. Its all so tediously circular 🙄
The thread is about the 'Effing Tories' (Daves phrase, not mine) reverting to type and making the poor bear the brunt of all the cuts, while the better off survive completely unscathed, yet again
Can the usual Tory, neo-liberal stormtroopers justify an effective cut in pay for the poorest payed in our society - lets call them 'Hard Working Families, shall we? - while nobody else is being asked to make any sacrifices?
Off you go....
jambalaya - Member
The top rate of tax was raised from 40+2 to 50+2 (inc NI) and the Tories reduced the rate back to 45, still an increase relative to the longer term. It is well documented that higher rates of tax often lead to lower amounts collected as businesses and individuals relocate and/or change their tax planning.
How many people earning over £150,000 are going to move abroad?
Cuts in public services have been necessary due to the excessive debts run up by the prior Labour government and which where spiralling out of control.
Do you think spending should have been immediately cut to match the fall in tax receipts due to the global financial crisis?
totalshell - Member
same old tory story ..getting more in work than ever before, unemployment falling, cutting council waste fastest growing economy in developed world. the only party committed to an in out referendum on europe. getting dr's to be open 7 days a week, 12 hours a day.
More people in low paid, part time and enforced self-employment, i also hate wasteful council service like libraries and museums. Europe is only an issue for Tory MPs. GPs don't need to be open on Sundays.
Personally, i think this is the most telling graph about Osborne's genius:
[img] :large[/img]
The fundamental flaw that no one seems willing to address is that a lot benefit spending gets paid to people in work. Partly due to low wages, partly due to a lack of affordable housing.
The next government needs to start to address these issues, which will be a painful and expensive long term process, potentially needing more public money to fund the housing by either taxing or borrowing, and increasing everyones cost of living to pay higher livable wages.
Plus a lot of people need to be educated as to what their priorities need to be when they are on a low income. I visit benefit claimants as part of my job, nothing beats being told that they can't be there to see me as they are in Spain for a fortnight, or if they are there, you can't hear yourself think due to Sky Movies blaring out their 90" plasma screen.
Not all of them, but a sizable minority.
The Tories have [i]brought about[/i] the largest fall in average earnings in almost a century:
The joy of stats.
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Look at the horrifying dip in wages! It's during a Labour government...
It's easy to twist stats and charts to mislead, but I suppose the alternative is politically unacceptable in the run-up to an election.
We won't see either party saying that external influences have been as important in determining employment and wage growth as government policy in recent years.
Labour and Conservative projected spending plans for the next parliament are not massively different, neither has any magic lever to pull when it comes to public sector pay over the next five years.
You have to take money from someone. Who's it going to be, low-paid workers who are likely to vote labour or defect to UKIP, or pensioners?
Oldnpastit, well thats exactly it isnt it. Highlights the flaws in our political system and the career politician.
last night at 22.14 had a potential customer ring up to have a cooker fitted..
''can you come after 4 o clock?''
''is that when your home from work?''
''no i dont work but i like to stay in bed till at least dinner.. and i ll need some time to tidy up and do the pots..''
Amazing totalshell wtf has that got to do with anything?
Its fine coming out with spurious Daily Mail-esque anecdotes about 'scroungers', but the vast majority of these cuts are going to hit the working poor. People who's wages don't allow them a living wage.
But is there any subsequent demand for employers to actually pay people a salary they can live on? Of course not. This is the ****ing Tories we're talking about here 🙄
I think totalshell was focusing on how incredibly lazy retired people can be 💡
The [s]Tories have[/s] global financial crisis has brought about the largest fall in average earnings in almost a century:
I can play this game all day.
Without doing anything at all to address the actual root causes of the problem, because that would involve questioning whether this whole capitalist system we've built is completely dysfunctional. But then... it is our mates who benefit from it all, so who ****ing cares eh George?
But would it have been better under anybody else? You have no idea.
FWIW I agree with many on here that the system is fundamentally broken and there has to be a better way to do things.
The kind of misinformation that makes people vote Tory/UKIP:
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I can play this game all day.
Well as a self-confessed Tory voter make your mind up aracer, is it all the fault of global financial crisis ?
Or is the global situation only relevant when there are bad news headlines and the Tories are in power ?
the vast majority of these cuts are going to hit the working poor. People who's wages don't allow them a living wage.
So you're saying The tories are stopping subsidising employers who pay low wages by topping up their employees wages with taxpayers money?
What a bloody good idea!
Or is the global situation only relevant when there are bad news headlines and [s]the Tories are in power[/s] Labour don't want to take the blame for it
and round the circle goes...
I think totalshell was focusing on how incredibly lazy retired people can be
I think totalshell was focusing on how incredibly lazy rich people can be.
So you're saying The tories are stopping subsidising employers who pay low wages by topping up their employees wages with taxpayers money?What a bloody good idea!
and letting food banks worry about feeding them, natch
What a bloody good idea!
Really ? You think it's a good idea ? 😯
I'm assuming of course that as a committed right-wing Tory supporter you're not in favour in increasing the bargaining power of low paid workers.
Yeah, of course, why on earth should the taxpayer subsidise companies to pay wages that their staff can't live on? We constantly hear that this is a bad thing for governments to do!
If their staff can't live on the wages, they'll have to start paying more rather than expecting the taxpayer to make up the difference, otherwise they'll have no staff!
Companies with no staff tend to not make any money...
I think its a good idea to cut back on in work benefits.
I also think that the minimum wage should be increased so that a full time worker doesn't need them.
If their staff can't live on the wages, they'll have to start paying more rather than expecting the taxpayer to make up the difference, otherwise they'll have no staff!
With over 2 million (officially) unemployed, and IDS's assault on the ability of people to actually qualify for benefits at all, a casualised, zero hours culture, mass immigration etc... having a steady flow of people trying to exist on subsistence level wages isn't really an issue
I'm in agreement with you its a crazy situation to subsidise companies to pay poverty level wages. But punishing the employee isn't going to address it, is it? Not without pressure on the employers. And the government won't even countenance that!
