[Closed] Tax returns - should they all be public?

I've never seen such levels of hysteria from STW's right-wing nut-jobs.

Its only monday, give us a chance to warm up...

@dd hysteria where exactly ?

Hysteria - is that a type of flower?

Boris pays £275k pa to hmrc, will someone do a quick calc of total tax and ni paid by someone on the "national average" £25k pa so we can compare

EDIT: so very roughly someone on £25 pays £5k deductions - Boris pays same tax/ni as 55 average earners. Also the employers ni on his mayors salary will be another £10k

Also intereting Sky guessed Boris made £900k pa when its really £612k - just the 50% media inflation

@dd (in my understanding) in the old days / recent past Boris would have paid zero tax on his £250k income from the Telegragph had he done the same thing in Ireland (misicians/artists/writers paid no tax)

leftists should applaud the redistributive effect of Boris. He's single handedly reduced the UK's Gini coefficient I reckon!

Afterall the bulk of his income comes from Stinking rich Conservative voters who buy his books and the Daily Telegraph, and thence on to HMRC via the benevolent boris. A Bo-Jo tax if you will 🙂

EDIT: so very roughly someone on £25 pays £5k deductions - Boris pays same tax/ni as 55 average earners. Also the employers ni on his mayors salary will be another £10k

Yes but a tax payer on £25K actually makes no net contribution to the running of the state - the same is also true all the way up to £43K ish. Which is why around 60% of working adults are now net recipients of state benefits rather with a diminishing number of the "rich" (those earning £44K or over) paying for everyone else.

So in reality, Boris total net contributions to the running of the state are equivalent to thousands of people earning £25K.

But Boris can only earn that much because of all those people making less than £25k. It's part of how society works (and why it is everyone's business)

just5minutes - Member

Yes but a tax payer on £25K actually makes no net contribution to the running of the state

As long as you pretend that said taxpayer's only contribution comes through direct taxation, and ignore the indirect benefit he creates through work.

But Boris can only earn that much because of all those people making less than £25k

pffft, those Telegraph Subscribers will be on a lot more than £25k.

Come on now. Be fair. Boris must be unbelievably talented. The same as Dave and George. In this egalitarian meritocracy of ours, its the only way they could have made it into their present positions in society

you're still bitter you didn't get invited to any pig-f****** parties at Uni aren't you binners?

Perhaps people like to read his column?

Or is the Torygraph a charity for unemployable Eton toffs?

@dd (in my understanding)

Which is wrong, does not apply to journalism.

Perhaps people like to read his column?

Annoyingly he writes it in a couple of hours which is an hourly rate even many tax lawyers dream of.

Is it that transparent?

To be honest theres all manner of deviancy I think I've been unfairly excluded from due to my lowly social status 😥

The same as Dave...

One wonders how he got a job in PR. And kept it.

It takes him that long?

You've got to love Dennis Skinner 😆

It takes him that long?

1,000 words in a couple of hours is a lot more than I can manage.

@mefty maybe some would not say his column is journalism ? 🙂

I would be fairly certain that Boris's ability to make the money he does from books/Telegrapgh has very little to doneith thise on £25k facilitating it. His mayoral salary comes from winning the election and he reprents all Londoners

maybe some would not say his column is journalism ?

Like, say, when he said the über-rich were a put-upon minority which he felt obliged to protect? I'd say that was a bit of fairly creative writing.

Like his marriage vows 😉

but a tax payer on £25K actually makes no net contribution to the running of the state

I think you meant to say they dont get the fair share they deserve from their exploits which go disproportionately to the owners of capital

I can tell you are massive Marx fan and just very confused and just abusing stats to labour [ get it] a crap point.

Lorry drivers, refuse collectors, nurses, teachers....freeloading bastards the lot of them who contribute nothing

Junkyard - sorry yes you're right - "no net [u]financial[/u] contribution to the state would have been a lot more accurate.

Having said that, Labour's current definition of the "rich" based on their budget commentary and the associated increase in allowance for the 40% tax band ("taking from the poor to give to the rich") includes nurses, policemen/women and a good number of lorry drivers as well. All of these groups would probably be quite surprised to learn they are part of the problem of the "rich" in the UK.

I doubt all those groups are as bad at maths as you or as unconcerned about their fellow poorer citizens.

I wonder if i can do a post you wont turn into a method to attack the labour party?

Which bit of the maths is "bad" Junkyard?

Well done Dennis. I will make a honourary ride through Bolsover on Sunday.

Gave me the best laugh in ages.

Having said that, Labour's current definition of the "rich" based on their budget commentary and the associated increase in allowance for the 40% tax band ("taking from the poor to give to the rich") includes nurses, policemen/women and a good number of lorry drivers as well. All of these groups would probably be quite surprised to learn they are part of the problem of the "rich" in the UK.

Only a small % of each of those groups. You need to be on over £54k to get taxed at 40%, which is roughly twice the mean full time wage for the UK.

Only a small % of each of those groups. You need to be on over £54k to get taxed at 40%, which is roughly twice the mean full time wage for the UK.

[quote=poly ]?? 40% tax is paid on earnings over £43k.

Yup, assuming a personal allowance of 11K.

https://www.gov.uk/income-tax-rates/current-rates-and-allowances

Not sure which "scheme" FF is on 😉

[I]And to those that think tax avoidance is the epitome of evil itself how many of you have paid cash to get a discount of somewhere between 15 & 20% depending on exactly when the transaction took place.[/I]

FFS just because you paid cash to the plumber doesn't automatically mean that it's not going thru their books! Do you imagine Tesco also put cash to one side and don't declare it?

@br I think in general thats exactly what it means - no tax or VAT. If we assume tax/ni of 35% then a tradesman sees 52p of every pound he charges the customer. Cash in hand means no vat receipt to a tradesman not the same at Sainsburys

Pretty sure their labour is what allows the rich to get rich

Skinner makes good theatre for the news and fhey compIain pmq's gives Parliament a bad name. Personally I find him pretty dull, its fhe same stuff week in week out and a waste of taxpayers money. He actually had a moderately good point to make about expenses and mortgage for Cameron. All he did was get kicked out. Whilst being cheered here posters should remember fhe snp tried to steal his spot on the benches. Very mature

?? 40% tax is paid on earnings over £43k.

Oops my bad, added the tax free allowance twice.

No personal allowance after earnings reach £125k as the rich pay proportionally more tax and on a larger amount

Cash in hand means no vat receipt to a tradesman

Lots of tradespeople aren't even VAT registered in the first place.

Lots of tradespeople aren't even VAT registered in the first place

Lots don't need to be VAT registered.

It's not compulsory.

Yes neal. Being one of those myself, I'm well aware of that.

Interesting Boris puts so little into his pension, what does he know that we don't

🙂 excellent

Yes neal. Being one of those myself, I'm well aware of that.

Fair enough, me too.

got sick of people presuming it was some kind of dodgy tax scam when I told them I wasn't VAT registered.

Lots of people don't realise you don't have to be.

What's also interesting in all these revelatory tax returns being published is that if any tax inspector so much as whispered about their truthfulness, he or she would be breaking the law.

Never fully got to the bottom of why that is, guy who did my decorating (£700 inc Farrow and Ball materials) was an he was a sole trader. Non vat registered allows you to undercut those who are registered. All quotes to decorate exterior of apartment building are registered as I imagine over threshold turnover

@dd tax inspector could report to hmrc just not speak to the press

Fair enough, me too.
got sick of people presuming it was some kind of dodgy tax scam when I told them I wasn't VAT registered.
Lots of people don't realise you don't have to be.

Yeah, I know what you mean. I've had the suspicious looks too. It's the kind of ignorance displayed by jamba, who obviously doesn't realise either.

@dd tax inspector could report to hmrc just not speak to the press

And what are the HMRC going to do if Boris lied to the press about how much he earns or how much he paid into his pension fund ?