[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-18122726 ]what are these people smoking?[/url]
I live in wales, I don't like having to pay for things but the carrier bag charge is a good thing IMO. why would you think for one minute that it's a tax when the money goes towards supporting charites and NFP organisations do a good thing?
it's more to do with the bureaucratic stuff and the cost to small business at the moment not the idea in principle
I don't accept that smaller businesses are struggling with the charge as I know that I will have to pay for a bag if I need one and will take one with me and I know that most people in wales do the same.
Most of the time a bag is completely unnecessary and people expect to be given one.
They are only a small group of people that have got together and called themselves 'The Tax Payers Alliance'. Start your own lobby group to defend the rightful taxation of wasteful over use of plastic bags. 🙂
Start your own lobby group to defend the rightful taxation of wasteful over use of plastic bags
I might just do that!
It's a great idea
If they want to complain about inefficiencies that hamper business they could start with the 240,000,000 cars that snarl up the roads around Wales capital city every morning.
I might just do that!
I'll join 🙂
Im not normally one for picking people up on the finer points of their posts, but I feel that 240 000 000 figure needs closer examination 🙂
But you've got completely the wrong idea gwaelod - driving a car a mile and a half to, well everything you do, is actually about personal choice and the free market and shouldn't be curtailed. Obviously what it means is that new roads should be built to help with that freedom, and when they're funded by government via taxes which they fdon't like it kinda goes a bit wrong, but who says that [s]coffee morning[/s] [i]oops[/i] tea party 'activists' have any interests beyond themselves.
I'll join.
Maybe it could be called something like the People In Support of Socially Fettered Law Abiding Private Sector Solutions....
I'm at risk of running out of bags to line the bin, but the tax on carrier bags is a good thing. Cutting a lot of waste and no longer do I feel like my fingers are about to be severed from my hands as I walk home with bags of shopping, that alone is worth it.
awh - MemberThey are only a small group of people that have got together and called themselves 'The Tax Payers Alliance'.
Surprisingly small. Last year the TaxPayers' Alliance received huge publicity in the press for a national demonstration they were organising in London to counter the massive anti-cut demos.
According to the Daily Telegraph about 350 people turned up. Presumably most of their members made the effort so I reckon they probably don't have much more than 350 members in the whole of Britain.
[url= http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/8513787/Rally-held-to-back-Government-spending-cuts.html ]Rally held to back Government spending cuts[/url]
Interestingly the TaxPayers' Alliance's director, Alexander Heath, despite being a self proclaimed representative of British taxpayers, doesn't actually pay British taxes.
[url= http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2009/oct/09/taxpayers-alliance-director-tax ]Taxpayers' Alliance admits director doesn't pay British tax[/url]
Your post, Ernie, has made me question, once again, why I bother paying the BBC to exist considering their ability to give inches to such a pathetic organisation and their inability to give a balanced report.
In South Africa we pay about 3p for carrier bags.
Apparently they introduced this when the carrier bag became known as the countries "national flower" due to the number of them caught on barbed wire fences along the sides of the roads.
A small charge stops people taking more than they need 🙂
To be fair highclimber you've given the TaxPayers' Alliance a few inches on here.
I don't really think that alone within the British media the BBC should refuse to report the rantings of the TaxPayers' Alliance.
o be fair highclimber you've given the TaxPayers' Alliance a few inches on here.
But at least there is a few links to who the TPA actually are and who works for them!
Ernie if you hate that then this wont impress you!!
http://www.taxpayersalliance.com/public-private-pay-comparison
need someone to balance out the union piffle that keeps coming out....
Nice to see someone looking at Council expenditure and other public spending
Not saying either side is right the truth as always will be somewhere nearer the middle
Interestingly that link suggests that the police have the best package in the UK, particularly as they seem to retire at 40.
The TPA are still trying to be the coffee morning party with no real success aren't they?
Ernie if you hate that then this wont impress you!!
Neither link is working for me. I'll try later.
Surely small businesses win if you charge for bags?
I know in the bike shop I used to work for we would be charged around 5p for a carrier bag (a decent strong one). We didn't get them for free. So charging for them will actually help as people will bring their own, and if they do need one they'll buy it, saving a small retailer several pounds a year.
If I forget to take a bag to the shop (and I often do) I will do my best to carry the items to the car rather than pay for a bag I don't really need.
the TaxPayers' Alliance
...I'm not sure about plastic bags, but they could save themselves some printing costs on their letterheads by changing their name to the shorter and more appropriate "The ****s".
Im not normally one for picking people up on the finer points of their posts, but I feel that 240 000 000 figure needs closer examination
No I count em as I ride past them every morning... 240,000,000 of them, every morning the same, shuffling forward gingerly a couple of centimetres at a time like a doubly incontinent pensioner with wind.
The thing is i go into Walesland, and buy stuff, have forgot the bags, so she decides to charge me for some, so i just leave the stuff there without paying,and say i will go nad get them from the Range Rover, she soon gives me some freebie bags.
Best done on a busy day at the supermarket.
Oh and how many of us recycle the old bags in the bins at most supermarkets for recycling .
I do, along wioth cardboard and paper and cans and bottles.
The TPA are the same idiots who had a go at an MP for daring to claim his 20p/mile for using a bike in the course of his work.
Ernie if you hate that then this wont impress you!!
Links still not working for me (anyone know what I might be missing?) but I've seen them on another source. And no, I'm not bothered about the rantings of the self-appointed TaxPayers' Alliance. I fully expect that sort of stuff from them.
Trade unions are an important necessity for the well-being of many employees, and responsible employers will provide them with the facilities so they are able to carry out their duties on behalf of their members.
For the obvious reason that the TaxPayers' Alliance is a right-wing front organisation, this gets right up their nose. The TaxPayers' Alliance would much rather that trade unions were seen as semi-criminal organisations which whilst they unfortunately have to be tolerated, should have every conceivable obstacle placed in their way to make their work as difficult as possible. The first link is merely an attempt to instil that attitude into people's heads.
The second link is just part of the bog-standard right-wing agenda of whipping up animosity and hatred against the public service workers, and to sow division at a time when there is growing public concern at cuts in public services.
So no, I expect nothing less from the self-appointed, unelected, unrepresentative, and unaccountable/unanswerable, TaxPayers' Alliance.
We only need to know that Patrick Minford is in the TPA to know that it's a vulgar cabal of reactionary right wing tossers.
Patrick Minford who as a trustee of Atlantic Bridge tried, and in fact did, rip off British taxpayers by falsely claiming that the organisation was a "charity" ? That Patrick Minford ?
Trade unions are an important necessity for the well-being of many employees, and responsible employers will provide them with the facilities so they are able to carry out their duties on behalf of their members.
Bit of a straw man argument isn't it Ernie?
Employers are already legally bound to give employees time off for trade union activities. I can't see that anyone (including the TPA) has challenged this or suggested it is changed.
That'll be the (EDIT!) fella...
That'll be fella...
I can't believe it !
...I'm not sure about plastic bags, but they could save themselves some printing costs on their letterheads by changing their name to the shorter and more appropriate "The ****s".
How about [b]C[/b]oalition [b]O[/b]f [b]W[/b]ealthy [b]P[/b]eople [b]A[/b]gainst [b]T[/b]ax.
I'm at risk of running out of bags to line the bin
Shop online at Sainsbury's then. It's ridiculous!
I love the 5p charge. The main difference is that they don't just hand the bags out for everything, they don't even mention them unless you ask. This alone gets people thinking and only asking for them if they really need them.
How about Coalition Of Wealthy People Against Tax
Bit politer than my suggestion but factually perfect!
The TPA are the same idiots who had a go at an MP for daring to claim his 20p/mile for using a bike in the course of his work.
Think they also highlighted the local authorities paying 50-60p/mile for own car use (HMRC Guide is 45p/mile)
The amounts wasted on bottled water etc.
Campaigning for FOI on Council expenditure
Having worked for a government funded organisation waste is common and excessive. Working lunches accounted for about £250,000 a year at one point - and they were crap.
We worked a 35hr week FFS not entirely best use of tax payers money
I support the TPA campaign against dirigism in local and regional government, but they do seem to be acting more like a sane version of UKIP rather than a campaigning organisation. So let's see them put up as a political party. It'd be interesting to see what would happen.
Having worked for a government funded organisation waste is common and excessive. Working lunches accounted for about £250,000 a year at one point - and they were crap.
Thnak god the private sector never waste any money as google has just confirmed.
Junky - If a private sector company wastes money, then they will be more expensive than the competition, and I can at all times choose whether to purchase their products/services or not, if I don't like how they do business, then I don't have to be a customer.
I don't have that choice from the public sector, who will take money from my pocket by force of law regardless of whether I use those services.
Junky - If a private sector company wastes money, then they will be more expensive than the competition, and I can at all times choose whether to purchase their products/services or not, if I don't like how they do business, then I don't have to be a customer.I don't have that choice from the public sector, who will take money from my pocket by force of law regardless of whether I use those services.
I don't know whether to laugh or cry.
Thnak god the private sector never waste any money as google has just confirmed.
Does this mean that it's acceptable for public sector to waste money?
It's all OK because they do it too... 🙄
The 5p bag tax isn't a problem for me, I can drive over the border and get them for free. Job's a good 'un.
Does this mean that it's acceptable for public sector to waste money?
No. It means the claim that the private sector is inherently more efficient than the public sector, or vice-versa, is wrong.
No. It means the claim that the private sector is inherently more efficient than the public sector, or vice-versa, is wrong.
I thought the general claim was more a question of the freedom of choice of the customer as opposed to being shackled to the public sector. That's my point of view anyway.
I generally see the public sector boasting about how efficient they are and not having any need to become anymore efiicient, but hey ho..
Lol when the private sector wastes money the investors/owners loose out
when the public sector wastes money the magic pot of money pays up....
But on the ethics of dirigiste policy?...
I don't have that choice from the public sector, who will take money from my pocket by force of law regardless of whether I use those services.
You are rright far better to have a monopoly that wont exploit its market dominance and will just deliver efficient services for us rather than maximimum profits for its shareholders...See Microsoft for examples of good practice in our lifetime and no one could argue against how just bloody brilliant they are in all respects.
Would you like more/ Asbestos indistry, tobacco?
My point is not to say that the public sector is ALWAYS brilliant nor the Private Sector allways bad
you just hate anything nor privately owned becausue you love the market.
However remove profit and everything is cheaper so it cannot be the ceapest
thought the general claim was more a question of the freedom of choice of the customer as opposed to being shackled to the public sector.
Shackled - nice use of emitive language.
Would having two railways line or two motorways be better?
Competition can also be rather waseteful of scarc resources and markets are not always best as they often lead to monopolies and ineffieciencies whatever free marketers say.
However remove profit and everything is cheaper so it cannot be the ceapest
I don't think its got anything to do with cheapest, it's about using resources efficiently. Private sector worked this out years ago. 😉
Competition can also be rather waseteful of scarc resources and markets are not always best as they often lead to monopolies and ineffieciencies whatever free marketers say.
Like the way mobile phone and internet access has become progressivley slower due to the limited hardwar resources available, and more expensive as the huge companies that were dominant ten years ago like AOL have exercised their monopolies?
the TPA are a blatant torry front
I cant deny that their goal of transparency and efficiency in government is laudable they are hypocritical (claiming tax relief on their own donations!) and in this case wrong
Id like to see a 10p bag tax introduced accross the UK
Do you think a 10p per STW post tax would lead to an increase in the quality of debate?
Wow Zulu you chose internet providers rather than say Microsoft or the examples I gave ...well done cherry picking you 🙄
Now could you explain how multiple motorways and train lines is a better thing and microsoft has not abused it position or would you like to just ignore the point some more and cite examples where it works?..
I have no issue* saying that in certain areas it can improve things [ competition is not necessarily bad anymore than the public sector is always great] You however can see no fault in the market even when you ignore the examples and cherry pick to prove your polemic.
SLOW HAND CLAP
Discussing markets with you is pointless your extermist views are well known.
* ok I might but yes the markets if regulated can do some good but not always.
So what is the desired outcome - less use of plastic bags. Most people would support the goal, I guess.
The pro's of gov imposed tax - winners: charities; environment. Losers: SMEs facing cost of admin (I am assuming)
Private sector alternative - provide financial incentives * for customers to bring their own bags (Tesco's I believe). Winners: the environment; SMEs; companies; consumers. Losers: charities (directly).
A few swings and roundabouts. But the introduction of 5p charge/tax etc has lead to positive behaviour and then the Tesco solution seems a positive development on the idea that counters the cost/admin for SMEs. Isn't that the best way forward? Dont know the nitty-gritty, so that is a genuine question.
Funny that M&S London seem to have dropped charge but M&S Midlands havent?
* as opposed to tax and collection/admin costs