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Mol, you need to ask the question, and answer honestly, why do i want that new car...
In reflection, the the one sitting outside here made little financial sense after the gearbox on the car went pop.. i could have fixed the old one and had plenty of change from the purchase price of the new one...
(By god, i think[b] i'm [/b]having a little trouble communicating THIS concept, just go out and buy the bloody book!) 😀
True happines and peace of mind can only be found in one place.
The last bite of a Dairy Milk Bar and a Half.
Mol, you need to ask the question, and answer honestly, why do i want that new car...
I do ask myself these kinds of questions a lot. And they are not because other people have them. My two cars (that I love) are a Prius and a Passat ffs, that blows the theory out of the water since everyone else thinks they are awful.. and not in a so bad it's good kind of way.
The Passat I got because I was doing long journeys and I wanted a) to be relaxed at the end of them and b) to be surrounded by as much safety equippment as possible. The Passat was on the right forecourt at the right time for the right price.
It's just too easy and simplistic to make sweeping statements like 'you are just keeping up with the joneses'.
So why buy the Prius? ( this is not a personal attack btw!!!) I'm gonna stick me neck out here and say you fell for the marketing...For its green credential?
On petrol, it gets similar MPG then a passat diesel? (47 iir)
The lithium mined for it's manufacture is actually raping the planet, the area it is mined in is barren for miles around with poisons from the process, this is then shipped 3 times around the globe while being processed in to batteries, and then to the car manufacture for fitment. The entire vehicle is then shipped here.
Then there is the end of life disposal issue..
Without that battery, i dare say that it would be just as polluting as a conventional car to produce, iir a car produces two thirds of its overall pollution in its manufacture?
No right thinking individual could possibly see this as an environmentally friendly car by any measuring stick, once shown the bigger picture of its manufacture, indeed any electric vehicle is polluting somewhere down the line, Power mainly comes from Gas or coal in this country, and even if recharged by wind or wave power, the battery still has caused mayhem in its manufacture and will again in its disposal.
For a green car choice, the best would be to buy one with the greatest fuel efficiency and run it for as long as possible.. So all those 1977 land rovers you see chugging about spewing fumes are technically more green then the Prius
I find cars depressing 🙁
That makes 2 of us...
Just using them as an example..
I'm gonna stick me neck out here and say you fell for the marketing...For its green credential?
I bought mine in 2006 when no-one had heard of them, and I hadn't seen ANY marketing.
I was interested in reducing the emissions from my car journeys, and the Prius had THE lowest CO2 of any car on the road. I also wanted a bigger car because we were expecing to be driving adults all over the place in the back of the car. Not only did it have the lowest CO2 at the time, but petrol is also much cleaner as a fuel, with far fewer harmful pollutants. It was also 1) a nice car in itself, 2) loaded with cool stuff, 3) Mrs Grips loved it, 4) the technology is brilliant and I'm a geek and 5) I wanted to support efforts towards lower emission motoring.
On petrol, it gets similar MPG then a passat diesel
We get 60mpg+ all summer long, and about 56 ish in the winter. If we have a bad tank with lots of town driving and bad weather it goes down to 52. Those are averages for a whole tank, as I reset it at each fill up.
Passat usually comes in at about 46-49mpg for a whole tank, and it does less town driving.
No right thinking individual could possibly see this as an environmentally friendly car by any measuring stick, once shown the bigger picture of its manufacture, indeed any electric vehicle is polluting somewhere down the line, Power mainly comes from Gas or coal in this country, and even if recharged by wind or wave power, the battery still has caused mayhem in its manufacture and will again in its disposal.
Fail mate, sorry. Priuses are made in a factory (albeit in Japan) that is solar powered, releases water into the river cleaner than when it comes in, and sends nothing to landfill and so on. Most commercially used nickel is recycled (for the batteries). The electricity in the battery just comes from the engine and regenerative braking. It's NOT an electric car, the battery is small and only there to make the duty cycle of the petrol engine more efficient.
It looks like YOU've fallen victim to the anti-Prius hype, without learning about the subject 🙂
So all those 1977 land rovers you see chugging about spewing fumes are technically more green then the Prius
What's gonna stop me from keeping my Prius that long? Most reliable family car according to JD power. You're assuming I'm gonna keep it 3 years and change it, to suit your own argument.
But this is a total digression from the topic and is not at all interesting to me or the other posters. Suffice to say I am not influenced by marketing much. I am influenced however by my own imagination and obsession with crazy schemes.
eeek we've been TopGeared 🙁 Who's going to be The Stig ?
You sound fairly clued up for someone who hasnt read the marketing blurb on the side of the box... 😆
No need to defend your position to me!
+1 on it being a good looking and interesting car BTW..
You sound fairly clued up for someone who hasnt read the marketing blurb on the side of the box...
It's not IN the marketing blurb.. I read up on it after I got it 🙂
Thus justifying your purchase against dissenters?
No, like I say no-one had even heard of it until a good year after I had it. I read up about it through work boredom 🙂
The gentleman doth protest to much! 😆
The other gentleman doth smart-arse too much and will receiveth justly a beating.
Never!
I'm still not 100% convinced that your purchases have not had at least some element, however small, of "Look at Me" syndrome, and your arguments explaining and reasoning why you bought them only shore up my convictions!
Absolutely not mate. Why on earth would I want people to look at me when everyone thinks the car is toss? Plus, like I say, no-one'd heard of it when I bought it.
I don't suppose you read George Monbiot in the Guardian the other day did you? Talking about intrinsic and extrinsic value systems.. top stuff.
Same reason i drove SAAB 900 Turbo carlssons BITD
To appear "Different" and "Individual"!!! Just like 10000000 others
...Got a link to the groaniad piece?
Just posted a new thread on it.. you reminded me; I wanted post it up when I first read it.
On it mate..[img] 
[/img]
Seeing as this thread seems to have been totally derailed I'll join the party.
What strikes me as perculiar is that Simon has been allowed to continue to post his ramblings despite a few people saying his comments are damaging to those with mental health problems.
I recall a thread about a dog that died. It brought forth a huge outpooring of sympathy for the owner. When Simon made some comment like "I think I have stumbled on a parallel universe" and went on to talk about anthropomorphism he got banned.
So the only conclusion can be that posts perceived as damaging to mental health are OK but those perceived as upsetting to the owners of deceased animals are not?
you, Grahame, are stirring, pure and simple 🙂
I recall a thread about a dog that died. It brought forth a huge outpooring of sympathy for the owner. When Simon made some comment like "I think I have stumbled on a parallel universe" and went on to talk about anthropomorphism he got banned.So the only conclusion can be that posts perceived as damaging to mental health are OK but those perceived as upsetting to the owners of deceased animals are not?
Yeah the mods on here have double standards.
depends how many people report the post I guess..?
I won't be adding to this thread with my lifetime of experience of a clinically depressed mother ...and my own experiences with acute depression in my twenties and my current state of living virtually depression free.. sorry folks
mostly cos this forum is populated by a large number of fairly amiable and pleasant but unfortunately often deeply supercilious folk who would definitely make me in a very bad mood if they decided to rub me up the wrong way on this subject..
This is an accurate diagnosis of Mr Barnes condition
Now I'm happily obnoxious 🙂
And why anyone ever gets upset by something said on a forum is beyond me.
And why anyone ever gets upset by something said on a forum is beyond me.
LOL... this illustrates my point perfectly
Can we get back to the original thread please ?
Hi George - hope you feel better soon, if you fancy a spin on the road bikes down my way you know my number. I'm getting a bit fitter the now and can even handle some climbs.
(And if I can gently opine, sorry but some of you lot are scarily self-obsessed !)
This is an accurate diagnosis of Mr Barnes condition
however "being annoying" is not a disease or disability 🙂
sorry but some of you lot are scarily self-obsessed
as I've pointed out, you don't have to feel guilty for giving yourself all the time and attention needed 🙂
And if I can gently opine, sorry but some of you lot are scarily self-obsessed
Part and parcel of the condition, unfortunately. You tend to spend a lot of time self-analysing trying to figure out what's wrong with you. Not the most healthy past time in my experience.
Not the most healthy past time in my experience.
give yourself a break - if it works, it's worth it 🙂
And why anyone ever gets upset by something said on a forum is beyond me.[b]LOL... this illustrates my point perfectly[/b]
the "amiable but supercilious" bit or the "if they decided to rub me up the wrong way" bit ?
I get upset by things said on forums.
They are still said. And it's still real people saying them.
However I don't mind being upset by them. I can deal with it, and for me, emotional ups and downs are like the real ups and downs of MTBing - what make life interesting.
I consider myself lucky because of that.
I get upset by things said on forums.
They are still said. And it's still real people saying them.
that's your choice, and I wouldn't pretend forums weren't a type of social intercourse - the medium is relatively unimportant, although this kind of non real-time, semi-anonymous interaction encourages less inhibition and tact.
I get upset by things like racism and illogicality, but I don't take them to heart.
I'm not convinced by the 'it's your choice' argument.
For some (like me), denying emotional reactions is unhealthy.
give yourself a break - if it works, it's worth it
Aye, but it didn't work for me. Just meant I spent many years attributing the way I was feeling to things in my past that I see now were actually pretty unimportant.
denying emotional reactions is unhealthy.
I know what you mean, however, my suggestion, based on CBT, is not so much to deny as to set aside, accept whatever uncomfortable, embarrassing or painful potential response is there, but elect not to indulge it. There are various techniques that make this easier, based on the premise that many sleights are unintentional, and even if someone sets out to hurt you, it's not necessary you to take it on board. You may, of course, give full rein to pleasant emotions, so long as you're mindful of potential subsequent anticlimax...
Just meant I spent many years attributing the way I was feeling to things in my past that I see now were actually pretty unimportant.
oh, I getcha! I don't hold with the whole psychoanalytic bit. The cognitive behavioural thing is about [b]now[/b]! Whatever baggage of guilts and associations we carry, it's best to look to the moment when you can act and perhaps escape set habitual patterns.
to set aside, accept whatever uncomfortable, embarrassing or painful potential response is there, but elect not to indulge it
I see.. this is a much better way of putting it. If you'd said that in the first place we might've avoided some arguments 🙂
Simon - CBT does not tell you to set your emotions to one side. CBT is a technique. Your self help book told you to do this using CBT techniques to do so.
Its not the same. You could use CBT techniques to embrace and validate your emotions.
Nor is looking deeper for causes necessarily psychoanalytic. There are many different talking therapies with different backgrounds and aims. Psychoanalysis is merely one techniques
Some people the reasons why they are depressed are rooted in the past and they need to explore these triggers to successfully manage / treat / cure their depression. It all depends on what typ0e of depression you have and the type of psyche you have what type of treatment or combination of treatments is appropriate.
You continue to oversimplify and to trivialise.
If you'd said that in the first place we might've avoided some arguments
well forgive me, but I didn't want to try to deliver my own potted condensation of what I learned from the book, as I always pare everything to the essentials!
You could use CBT techniques to embrace and validate your emotions
indeed? Well I apologise for my ignorance, having found something that worked I didn't bother to look further, however, I don't feel any strong need to embrace or validate my negative feelings and would rather attend to the good ones.
You continue to oversimplify and to trivialise
I don't agree that simple=trivial
But barnsie, you have to admit that your experiences are only one tiny corner of a huge world...?
simple does not equal trivial but you continue to do both. Depressive illness can be far more severe and intractable than you seem to realise with complex and multi factorial causes and treatments.
But no - just set your emotions aside and become cured like SFB!
you have to admit that your experiences are only one tiny corner of a huge world
but 100% of me ? Like I said before, I often hear people expressing the kind of negative thinking that leads to unhappiness and poor self image, even if it doesn't get as far as depression, and I think many non basket cases can benefit from the techniques, and for those of us who are drug-resistant it may be the only course. I never claimed everything I said applied to everyone.
complex and multi factorial causes and treatments.
ya think ? But what proportion ? Well, obviously I got off lightly, but talking up complexity is an invitation to intractibility IMO.
just set your emotions aside and become cured like SFB!
Victor Meldrew or autistic sociopath ? You choose 🙂
Ok look. Barnes is talking from an entirely personal and subjective point of view BUT it sounds like he isn't.
That's basically it. Can we stop now?