Having always had a hankering for a campervan or a motorhome, I think I've come to the conclusion that a small caravan is probably better. This was triggered by seeing the Swift Basecamp SE4
https://www.swiftbasecamp.co.uk/basecamp-2-4-se
We have two small children and live in Scotland and that sort of caravan looks ideal for weekend trips away. Although I'm told it is expensive. I've no real idea on how much a caravan should cost and whether it's good value. I'm thinking 1-2 years ahead as our youngest is only 1 month. There may be more secondhand options by then, as the Basecamp 4SE came out in 2019.
A small caravan makes a lot of sense:
- I can use our current car. We wouldn't be going huge distances anyway
- I don't have another vehicle to maintain
- There's no faff with fitting car seats into a campervan/motorhome (folding bed seats can make this difficult and even unsafe)
- A caravan gives access to sites that tents aren't allowed (e.g. C&M Club sites)
- It's warmer than a tent
- It's more midge proof than a tent
- It would have a longer season than a tent, e.g. trips away in Winter.
- Quicker (?) setup than a tent. I'm thinking while the kids are itching to get out of the car.
At a certain point in time, I would never have considered a caravan, but I can now see the benefits. Have I lost my mind?
Coming round to this thinking too.
The guy on here that imported a Knaus Deseo had it up for sale a month or two ago - I dithered a bit too long and it went. Not enough nice, simple, compact family caravans like that over here.
Eriba is another possibility.
Have I lost my mind?
Yes.
Every way you look at it, caravans are the best option. More comfortable and easier than family camping, cheaper than motorhome and leaves your car usable for the other 99% of the time.
I want one, Mrs S doesn't
Edit, I LOVE that basecamp, caravans like that have been long overdue. Very spendy though/
Is it just the styling that makes it better than a traditional caravan? You might want to compare the cost of wrapping a van and redoing the upholstery etc compared to this. With a family of 4 space will be a key factor in a few years...
Is it just the styling that makes it better than a traditional caravan?
In a way, the overall functional approach makes it more appealing. Different and more subtle graphics are available. I'd prefer just white though.
All of the beds and seats fold up and there are lashing points underneath, so bikes and other kit can go inside. No frilly curtains or carpets. Removable tote crates instead of overhead cupboards. Bunks for the kids. Outdoor shower and BBQ points.
Got to say, I like big caravans, but then I spend a lot of time in it
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I want one, Mrs S doesn’t
There is this too. Hence the research. I've pointed out that I could take the kids away on my own, amongst other benefits
As I'm reading this one of them Swifts has just arrived and pitched opposite us.
Two adults and two small kids might be doable but it will be cosy. Wouldn't want to do it for a long time in bad weather
We recently built an extension, primarily to gain a bedroom for guests and larger living space. It cost a lot of money. I did suggest that for a fraction of the price we could by a caravan, park it on the drive. We would gain everything we needed out of our extension and have the added benefit of gaining a holiday home. I thought it was a brilliant idea. It turned out to be be a surprisingly short conversation.
Every way you look at it, caravans are the best option.
Almost true, but not quite. The one key fact is that you'd be driving around with a caravan.
Apart from that one all important fact, I do tend to agree with you. Make much more sense than a motorhome/ camper, but I still couldn't bring myself to do it.
We’ve gone small tent > VW T5 campervan > caravan > big tent over the past 15 years.
Wee tent was fine for just Mrs a11y and me. Campervan was pure luxury. Ms a11y #1 arrived and campervan still brilliant: more of a squeeze but still perfect. Ms a11y #2 arrived: oh ****. It was too small and awkward when we had bikes / baby stuff / kiddie seats x 2 / etc on board for big holidays. Bought caravan. Took a LOT of convincing but it made sense to us: lots more space, not that expensive (certainly compared to big motorhomes etc), weather-proof, etc. But we sold it a couple of weeks ago.
Cost of having a caravan was niggling at me more and more. Our own circumstances didn’t help as we couldn’t keep it at the house which meant £450/yr storage. Storage yard also had crap access times (8.30-6.00) which prevented early starts or late returns which frustrated. Then there was insurance (£280/yr) and servicing. Additional travel costs: fuel (37mpg solo vs 26mpg towing), ferries to mainland Europe costing more, French road tolls, Swiss vignette (one for vehicle and another for caravan) and the slower speed limits. More awkward to stop enroute for food etc too. And because we had the caravan we felt more obliged to use it for every holiday instead of alternatives such as in-laws hol home, YHAs, random weekends away or even (sssshhh) a package hol. Argh.
So we’ve bought an enormous Vango airbeam tent. We already had all the gear so it’s only been the cost of the tent plus a 2nd hand roofbox (going to look amusing on top of a Transit van but Bikes Inside Matter). Yes, less access to campsites than a caravan. Yes, colder than a caravan. Yes, less midge-proof than a caravan. And yes, shorter season than a caravan. Undecided about setup time vs a caravan as trial run yet to happen (this weekend!). But it means I can now say I don’t own a caravan… but really it was about the costs/convenience. Ability to travel cheaper and faster will be great on future Alps trips and we know from previous experience of a Vango inflatable awning on our caravan that combined with a fan heater a tent can be quite cosy.
As I’m reading this one of them Swifts has just arrived and pitched opposite us.
Two adults and two small kids might be doable but it will be cosy. Wouldn’t want to do it for a long time in bad weather
Better than a tent though in bad weather? Is the one opposite a 4 berth? I think the awning is a must
A bigger caravan negates some of the benefits. We'd need bigger car and I might have to take the trailer driving test, but yeah there will be an upper age limit of the kids in a smaller caravan.
If you're happy with caravan go for it but
A caravan gives access to sites that tents aren’t allowed (e.g. C&M Club sites)
Tend to be horrible sites. Camping and caravan is a better club to join imo.
We recently built an extension, primarily to gain a bedroom for guests and larger living space. It cost a lot of money. I did suggest that for a fraction of the price we could by a caravan, park it on the drive.
We have a caravan site within walking distance and I have thought exactly the same 😁
It dosent say if its a 2 or 4 birth. One person about setting it up so it could make it doable.
Looking at the air vents down the side and then looking at your link it could be the 2 as they are under the smaller side window
And every other road user will hate you 😉
Great info thanks. Yes there is a 'standing charge' of insurance, storage etc, of at least £70 month before you've even used it.
Not sure I'd plan to take it on long trips away. Going abroad would be something else!
What is the depreciation on caravans like?
Motorhomes seem to hold their value very well.
The europeans got some far cooler caravans than we do.
Most of our caravans and motorhomes are aimed at "retirement lump sum" buyers.
On the continent its often family buyers. Normally european vans have the door on the wrong side (yes some sites ban you for this), won't have an oven (!) and often don't have a hob as cooking is done outside the van.
Check out:
Sterckeman
Rapido Club
My favourite: Kip Kompact
Vans that came to the UK you might find:
ABI adventurer (ageing now)
Dethleffs Campy
I sometimes think about heading over to holland and doing a tour of the van dealers to pick one up. But theres always something else I'd rather be doing.
Depreciation is bad on new ones.
Get a used Eriba though and you won't lose much.
The minute theres a sniff of damp in a caravan its worthless, they just fall apart.
Lots of dutch keep them in garages, e.g:
https://www.marktplaats.nl/a/caravans-en-kamperen/caravans/m1594277747-eriba-eribelle-430-caravan-met-hefdak.html
Bought a 6 berth 2007 Ace for 6k about 3 years ago. Have had a fortunes worth of fun out of it.
spends half the year at Innerliethen with a decent awning and towed by my transit custom full of bikes.
Just buy a traditional caravan. Not convinced about those base camps at all, lots of extra money for less caravan.
5k will get you a comfy decent sized 10/15 yr old van. Just make sure it's dry and everything works.
Most of our caravans and motorhomes are aimed at “retirement lump sum” buyers.
Definitely
On the continent its often family buyers. Normally european vans have the door on the wrong side (yes some sites ban you for this)
Pitch orientation and being able to tow it out if there's a fire?
RE: Swift Basecamp
Is it just the styling that makes it better than a traditional caravan?
There is a lot more going on than stickers. Bike racks internally, wide back door, storage based on bags, outside hose, washable surfaces etc I could see mrs_oab and I getting one when the lads leave home.
So much cheaper than a caravanette, less faff of space/kit moving compared to a small caravanette such as T5.
Knaus do one similar.
I think there's one from another manufacturer that's 20 odd years old now, but I can't remember the name.
RE:damp in vans. How come you can buy a watertight yacht or dinghy, yet new caravans (the Swift Basecamp noticeably) seem to be riddled, with some huge design faux-pas. I helped friends a couple of years ago who had a pretty new, £9k caravan. It has a roof seam where the water drained. It had window design that guided water towards the joint between wall and window frame - of different materials so different expansion. It had a floor that appears to be painted wood, not GRP and foam.
Funnily enough they had three areas of damp....
Vans that came to the UK you might find:
ABI adventurer (ageing now)
We have an abi adventurer, its very old and tatty but it sleeps 3 in the dry and is good fun. Only paid £500 for it.
I think a family of 4 would struggle in a Basecamp, they do look good though are a fair bit heavier than ours.
Another one to look at are Tab but they are 2 berth also. Might suit us now the boy is getting older and would sleep in a tent outside but thats no good with young kids.
It has a roof seam where the water drained
Ours has this its crazy, its clearly leaked in the past but now has a massive amount of sealant over it and seems fine. Shit design though.
yet new caravans (the Swift Basecamp noticeably) seem to be riddled, with some huge design faux-pas
Having never bought a caravan, but having fond memories of my parents, I liked the look of that Basecamp, but then saw your comment. Can you elaborate for me?
A Google is scary, but I'm sure many vans have issues. It just seems amazing that a big manufacturer with a long history has to recall a new product as they can't keep them dry...
Apparently now sorted.
https://www.google.com/search?q=swift+basecamp+damp
And every other road user will hate you
Yes but if you ride a bike you're used to that already.
Euro vs UK caravans: @wzzzz speaks the truth. I couldn't get on board with a typical retirement home UK caravan, hence buying a Hobby Vita Veneto 495UL. Struggling to post pics but it was pretty cool (for a caravan). Wasn't beige/white for a start. Door being on 'wrong' side wasn't an issue.
Depreciation: 2010 Hobby cost us £10k 5.5 years ago. Sold for £6k last month but had an impending £1-4k repair looming due to damp…
Ahhhhh damp. Don't go secondhand caravan shopping without a damp meter. Not for the beds (ewwwww but probably some truth given the average caravan owner age) but water ingress can be a significant issue on some. Ours was a surprise to us - water coming in 'somewhere' around the front panel and initial inspections couldn't locate the source at all. Significant investigation was needed and costs completely unknown so we jumped ship. Buyer intended fixing it himself.
And CAMC sites: we liked them. Draconian rules at times but generally nice sites. Even our Transit + Hobby combo didn't deny us access to any campsite.
And every other road user will hate you 😉
Only if you're towing it with a Lada. Decent motor for the job & they won't.
We've just had a wet & windy week up near North Berwick in ours. One thing we noticed up there is how many car parks have height barriers on, especially any right by the coast. 2.02 mtrs, just enough to get something like T5 under but no way to get a MH or van conversion in.
'cycle or walk' I hear you say. Aye right, in a force 6 gale & hoying it down.
Another thing. Wev'e met up 3 times with a mate of mine & his mrs with their MH & each time wev'e gone further afield in our car so they didn't have to pack everything away.
Caravan every day.
Just got back from a weekend up visiting my folks in our caravan. It was a cinch, site was £14/night, we were out in a field instead of paying £120 to be in someone else's house in a B&B. About 45 mins set up and tear down with not much stuff and no awning.
Motorhomes holding their value - great if you have a shitload of cash lying around, not so good if you want cheap used!
What car do you have dmorts?
Our little t@b is euro configuration with door on wrong side. Most sites are fine with it even caravan club ones. Only site that had an issue was a caravan club one at fort William and it seemed to be just us that they didn't like.
What car do you have dmorts?
VW Touran, so larger caravans would be out. Unless we changed car, but that's unlikely
A Touran would tow most medium sized vans I think unless they have lightened them up a lot.
They seem to make caravans in weight classes. 1100kg ish for smaller cars, 1400 ish for medium cars and 1700 ish for SUVs. But even as cars have got slightly lighter so have the caravans.
For example a Touran 2.0 TDI is listed as 1635kg, and the MTPLM of a Bailey Phoenix 650 (a good spacious family layout with fixed kids bunks) is 1394kg which would be fine. Aomyou don't need to go for a 'small' van at all. Many many options for your car.
We have had all the combos from tent to caravan and back to tent, now have a 20year motorhome. Our kids are now adults so with our 2birth motorhome it is easy, it has a fibreglass one piece shell so hopefully little chance of water ingress. When the kids were smaller the caravan was ideal used it loads both in the UK and Europe the ability to get everything in the van and the car made for fantastic holidays. We started going further afield in Europe and went back to a tent so we could move quicker across Europe staying only a couple of nights at each place with a Decathlon Family pop up tent so quick up and down. Tents are definitely a LOT cheaper to own and buy. Now the motorhome suits us, it is not much bigger than a standard MWB van but it is comfortable and the retro seats are growing on me. When we were getting the MH the other option was an Eriba caravan, but my wife didn't want to tow.
A Touran would tow most medium sized vans I think unless they have lightened them up a lot.
It's the 1.5 Petrol, 150bhp engine. It's no slouch but might not be as good as towing as a diesel engine.
For example a Touran 2.0 TDI is listed as 1635kg, and the MTPLM of a Bailey Phoenix 650 (a good spacious family layout with fixed kids bunks) is 1394kg which would be fine
How does the caravan to car matching work....?
All of the beds and seats fold up and there are lashing points underneath, so bikes and other kit can go inside.
. OK, but be aware you only have 136 kg total load capacity in there. I believe that includes your clothes, bedding, food, your pans, crockery etc.
Caravans (all trailers) are sensitive to how they are loaded and how they steer - sticking 40 kg of bikes in the wrong place could make it horrible or even dangerous.
No frilly curtains or carpets.
I get that. But those can easily be removed from other vans and replaced with functional finishings.
Removable tote crates instead of overhead cupboards.
Which should make the joinery cheaper!
Bunks for the kids.
I'm sure this is not the first van with bunks. There is a weight limit on the top bunk which would stop you using it with 1/2 the people on this site (just in case you have any plans to use for "lads trips" too.
Outdoor shower and BBQ points.
you can retrofit those sorts of things to any van.
Better than a tent though in bad weather? Is the one opposite a 4 berth? I think the awning is a must
If you need an awning every time you use it, even for one or two nights, I would think you basically have half the inconvenience of a tent. You'd get a trailer tent for a fraction of the price.
A bigger caravan negates some of the benefits. We’d need bigger car and I might have to take the trailer driving test, but yeah there will be an upper age limit of the kids in a smaller caravan.
mmm... £20k for a van, but won't spend £400 for the licence to use it - seems like you are restricting yourself. I'd also be certain that your current license and vehicle combo will cover that - including any future vehicle. e.g. my (post 97) license and car would cover it - but if I bought a bigger car ironically it wouldn't!
How does the caravan to car matching work….?
Cars are rated to tow XXX weight, but it's recommended that the (fully loaded) caravan be no more than 85% of the kerbweight of the car - so at 1500kg you can get a van up to 1275 MTPLM (Maximum Technically Permissible Laden Mass)
You CAN go higher but it gets trickier, and depending on your licence / towing combo you need to be wary of being illegal. You also need to be wary of where you put your gear, as above - this video is a good example of what can happen if you get the trailer weight in the wrong place
Good points. My entry point to this whole thing is seeing the Basecamp caravans first, so I don’t know what that particular model gives you over the more traditional caravans.
I've started to look at other small caravans for comparison. This is a whole new world to me
but it’s recommended that the (fully loaded) caravan be no more than 85% of the kerbweight of the car
Yes, although with modern cars this can be stretched slightly. But you won't need to, dmorts. You have manynoptions. But as above it's about car weight not power.
You do have to know a bit about towing a caravan. Basically get the tyre pressure right (often really high), get the nose weight right (buy a nose weight scale) and experiment with what works. If you have a rear washroom for example make sure the toilet is empty because otherwise it sloshes about which will wag the back of the van. Most vans can have suspension dampers fitted, it's a very easy bolt-on DIY job and it really helps.
We now know where all the stuff goes in our caravan to get the nose weight right. But if it needs fine tuning we have some of the gear in a tote whose position can be adjusted.
I don’t know what that particular model gives you over the more traditional caravans.
Smaller, bike storage inside, theoretically suitable for parking up at random locations #vanlife style.