We moved from campervan to folding camper to caravan. I love it and find little downsides compared to a campervan the main one is the last day is driving home it is harder to stop somewhere on route but that only affects the longer distance breaks. The extra more useful space even in a small caravan is much better. Set up time is not hugely different once you know what you are doing.
We bought a small four berth Adria Altea 390DS brand new eight years ago for £9k and we have had nearly 500 nights in it, including in the garden where we keep it. It was a great space away from the house during lockdown. It is still in great condition and I would be surprised if it was worth less than 5k now.
Ours had bunks, I took the top one out to make more room on the bottom bed. Top bunks are not usable for long, kids quickly get too big for them.
Adria's do not suffer from damp but many British vans still get it after about a year which is just crazy.
You mention having a 1.5 petrol engine I assume that is the VW one. It should manage a Basecamp, I think they have about 184lb ft torque so it will feel a bit slow but it will make progress, I think steady is fine and stability is more important so try to keep under the 85%. My Adria is a little lighter full potential weight but it can take over 200kg more payload so I will have been well under the maximum and I used to tow with a 1.6 Tdi Golf with similar torque levels.
It costs money to maintain them and for many people store them so they are not the cheap holidays people expect although if you keep the van as long as we have it works out well. Definitely join the CAMC we prefer it to the Camping and Caravanning Club but it is ten years since we were members of the latter. We have just come back from the CL below near Nairn. £5 per night for all of the family for basic setup and no electricity, small solar panel keeps the battery topped up and gas usage for the fridge is very efficient. We are the nearest van below
Regarding nose weight if you have a small van like ours with a long european style A-frame at the front it really doesn't matter how you load the van it has so little impact.
find little downsides compared to a campervan the main one is the last day is driving home it is harder to stop somewhere on route but that only affects the longer distance breaks.
We put food and water in the van and stop in laybys if we aren't going on motorways, and sometimes if we are. We just have a tote and a bag to move out of the way so we can sit down. We don't un-hitch of course so no need to put legs down.
It costs money to maintain them and for many people store them so they are not the cheap holidays people expect
We don't have our van serviced. I just pay attention to it as we go along. I don't think you need to spend hundreds. It can be cheap holidaying; our two weeks in Cardigan cost something like £14/night in campsite fees for a fantastic spot on the edge of the mountains in a CAMC CL. Two years ago we stayed in a main CAMC site and it was £45/night for a sterile field with a tarmac loop in it. And the CL had a trampoline 🙂
We put food and water in the van and stop in laybys if we aren’t going on motorways, and sometimes if we are. We just have a tote and a bag to move out of the way so we can sit down. We don’t un-hitch of course so no need to put legs down.
We do this too, I was meaning more along the lines of 'we are passing Pitlochry, lets have a good look around town and maybe have a walk up a hill' I am never comfortable leaving the van on a carpark etc.
No that's true, and we have had issues with that. We pulled into the back of a car park on a business park to go to a supermarket on the way somewhere, and the security guard moved us on cos he presumably thought we were travellers or something. As if we even remotely looked like staying FFS.
If you want to be different and don't want a caravan... https://www.opuscamper.co.uk/
(Note thats over priced - you can get this much cheaper - but not quite as trendy looking: https://www.ventertrailersuk.com/savuti-off-road-camping-trailer/)
Adria Altea 390DS
That's quite similar to the Swift Basecamp 4SE in a lot of ways and half the price!
dmorts
SubscriberAdria Altea 390DS
That’s quite similar to the Swift Basecamp 4SE in a lot of ways and half the price!
If you are considering secondhand then models after 2011 had the better layout. Also it was known as the Shannon for a couple of years.
Other options might be Eldis Explore 304.
Adria 432 getting a bit heavier, fixed bed and bigger second bed if the kids are happy to share but longer term may be better than bunks. Lack of windows so not the best for taking in the view.
Tab four birth again poor windows.
Adria Eden heavier again
Desio very square so heavy on fuel in wind
Bailey Discovery
Adria Altea 390DS
These look great. Should be towable by most on a post 97 license too without extra tests.
We've a 6 berth bailey Orion. Fixed bed. Side dinette/bunks and front double. GRP shell.
1380kg mtplm.
Granted it's got sacrifices to make it so light for a 6 berth but it's comfy for our little family.
With the right vehicle you wouldn't need a test.
It was 20kg over the legal limit for me so I spent the cash. Didn't learn anything but at least I can tow most things now.
I personally would not like a trailer tent. Two key advantages of caravans are warmth and quiet.
Ours has an electric and gas heater, with optional blown hot air, which means we don't need to be huddled into a sleeping bag we can sleep however we want; we use a normal duvet and the cushions are pocket sprung. And the van being rigid doesn't flap in the wind, and it blocks out a lot of campsite and other sundry noises like cars.
All on a £2k used van.
Liking the Eriba line, but convincing Mrs TiRed is not going to be an easy sell. Do any have inbuilt showers of any form? Our diesel CRV looks fine for towing. I've been working on a MH or even a narrow boat (we've hired many), but it's proving hard.
Check out the hymer Nova caravans.. I would get these if I was serious.. was good second hand models with a quality interior. Still prefer a Motorhome but they do make sense.!
I think Euro vans that they build for the UK i.e. with the door on the proper side also are build with UK specs in mind e.g. cookers and showers and stuff.
For example a Touran 2.0 TDI is listed as 1635kg, and the MTPLM of a Bailey Phoenix 650 (a good spacious family layout with fixed kids bunks) is 1394kg which would be fine. Aomyou don’t need to go for a ‘small’ van at all. Many many options for your car
And yet if he drove a touran 2.0 TDI and towed that van he would be 54kg on the illigal as he is limited to 3500 combined MAM the kerb weight of 1635kg is irrelevant.
With a 1.5tsi at 2090kg and that van he would have 16kg to play with.
I would be sweating at a check point in that combo for sure.
Of course spending 325-400 quid on a days towing course would negate all of that and you'll probably learn a thing or two about towing a van. Dinnae be one of them eejits who for some inexplicable reason can not reverse a caravan onto their pitch.
Yes or the ones who wobble down the motorway with under inflated tyres, one lower than the other for added effect.
Euro vans often have much longer drawbar than UK vans.
This could be seen as a waste of space in storage..... But you can get bike racks to mount on the drawbar...
NBT..... Love that video!
Clearly shows that even without driver input, a correctly loaded trailer/caravan has the ability to self-cancel a snake.
Brilliant, Brilliant BRILLIANT!
Shows really nicely why loading up correctly is vitally important.
I'm gonna show everyone I know that video. Thanks.
This could be seen as a waste of space in storage….. But you can get bike racks to mount on the drawbar…
You can but I can't see how that wouldn't wreck the nose weight at least for a bigger van. I mean ideal nose weight is 5-7% at least on a UK van, and that would be 75kg on a 1500kg van. Then another 25kg of bikes would that over the draw bar limit for most non-SUVs
We picked up a 18 year old Avondale Dart a couple of years ago. It was a bit of a spur of the moment purchase. Never regretted it. We have used mostly caravan club sites but to be honest we are done with them. Too daily mail for us. The van was £1500 included all the kit including awning and full gas cylinders. It is hearing aid beige. We are always the rattiest van on any site. The kids play spot the van worse than ours. The shoppers at Totnes Morrison’s gave me very dirty looks when I was waiting for MrsDts to come back out on Saturday😀 (for clarity it is behind a blue Ranger pickup, maybe understandable!)But it is warm, the heating works, it has a fridge to keep drinks cold and it is dry. We are not precious about it. I guess that pretty good for a 20 year old caravan. We do intend to rip out the sludge coloured curtains and soft furnishings. Cheap holidays really. Looking for a site for Oct half term.
Contrary view.
Get a 500kg or 750kg trailer a good quality six or eight berth tunnel tent and some decent camping furniture and cooker.
It's easy enough to book pitches with electric hookup and get a good electric chiller box and low wattage kettle.
Have much more space, much less to store (volume wise).
We've got room in our 8 berth tent for two kids to each have their own bedroom and a shared one for us. Somewhere around 15m2 of open plan living space where we have a four seat table and bench seats plus four camping chairs and a coffee table and folding storage unit plus the porch bit we cook in.
To get that space in a caravan I'd need/want a monster of a 4wd to tow it, it would be an arse to store too.
I get caravans have a number of other benefits as others have pointed out though. Just worth considering the alternative (we did go through this a bit a while back). 🙂
Dirty looks in Totnes Morrisons carpark?
You sure it was Totnes?
You know Totnes is twinned with Narnia, right?
Semtex, I did see what I thought was deer at the side of the road on the way in, perhaps it wasn’t a deer?
RIP Mr Tumnus.
Sod packing away a massive tent and all its furniture in the rain!
Poke that.
Even packing and hitching the caravan sounds like a pain in the pissing rain 🙂
I hitched in the rain last week, coming home from Eden Valley. Sat in wet pants for three hour towing south into a ferocious headwind. It wasn;t pleasant 🙁
Taking down an awning in the rain is a pain, but you can check the forecast and do it the night before if necessary. You just have to do stuff like empty the waste and toilet, it's nowhere near as bad as taking down a tent.
Definitely so much easier sorting caravan in the morning you're leaving than a large tent, we have been lucky most times we're away and manage to get the awning down dry and it's just hook-up etc to do. We're on our second caravan over 10 years and we wouldn't change it to go back to a tent for family hols. Been a godsend this summer with having our own facilities on board too. Even taking costs of the van, insurance etc into account, we're still better off than renting cottages for the six weeks we normally go away in a year, especially in the South West and unlike a tent we have heating etc so we can go away year round.
and unlike a tent we have heating etc so we can go away year round.
I'm told by people who go to campsites that there is electrickery available now and the luxury tent users have heaters too!
In the rain we just sort everything in the van then do the water tanks and electric cable all with the awning up if it's already wet. Wet stuff into the back of the van (transporter not caravan) awning down and into the van. Hitch and go.
Really interesting thread this. been thinking about a caravan myself, also always dreamed of a camper but the idea of a tourer is growing on me...
we currently have a large-ish tent that we use 3 or 4 times a year, but im increasingly jealous looking at the set-ups up the tourer pitch end of the campsites! we camped over BH, paid for 4 nights but sacked it after 3. i could probably handle longer but the majority had had enough...
where do you folks peruse or purchase the vans from, any preferred dealers or websites? when ive googled any of the models mentioned here there does not seem to be many results...
also love the idea of having an extra guest bedroom on the drive at home!!
the Adria Altea 390DS looks just the job.
the luxury tent users have heaters too!
Well that sounds eco-friendly!
im increasingly jealous looking at the set-ups up the tourer pitch end of the campsites
What triggered our first caravan purchase was returning to a soggy tent at a wet Sleepless in the Saddle at about 1am - cold, muddy, tired, and walking past a caravan and seeing the warm cosy people inside laughing and drinking and having a great time. The following year we got one, and returning from my again wet muddy lap to a heated caravan and a hot shower to then slip between clean actual sheets and a duvet was absolute bliss.
It's more than just warmth of course. In a caravan or bigger motorhome you have a proper sink with hot and cold water that you can stand at to wash up for example; you have a fridge, you have a wardrobe so all your clothes are hanging up or sorted, you don't have to rummage around in bags, all your stuff is in overhead bins, and you don't have to pack any of that kit away when you move on cos it's already part of the caravan. I never thought we'd use an oven in a caravan either, but it means we can grab supermarket pizzas or ready meals if we want, which is pretty handy.
where do you folks peruse or purchase the vans from, any preferred dealers or websites? when ive googled any of the models mentioned here there does not seem to be many results…
The Euro models talked about here are pretty rare, especially the smaller ones. I've bought all my vans from eBay - but there's a lot of junk about so it can be difficult. If they're not local you have to ask the questions like 'is it damp? Does everything work?', bid, then pay on collection IF it's okay - if you ask the questions first then you have grounds to walk away if they've lied.
This has turned into a very informative thread.
What are the things to look for in a second hand caravan? Not just damp, wear and tear, but things like GRP panels, types/levels of insulation
I've started to have a look at some secondhand caravans (still way off purchasing though). One thing I've noticed is that quite lot look like someone has just thrown my Grandparent's front room, wholesale, into a much smaller room 😀
we bought one in June after a lot of debate and searching.
started with a £4K budget and ended top spending £8.5 to get a decent one!
Can not stress enough that you need a damp meter, 80% of the caravans I looked at had damp.
Many dealers appear to be very economical with the truth/crooks, we ended up buying privately and went for the Cris check before purchase.
Take time to look at loads of different layouts, we started off wanting a fixed double but it takes up so much space and you often get a shite bathroom as a result.
we got an Elddis 554, twin fixed bunks, huge bathroom with fully lined shower, more storage space than you will ever need and comfy front double when made up.
Would highly recommend and awning too, space for bikes, changing and for chilling in the evening
What are the things to look for in a second hand caravan? Not just damp, wear and tear, but things like GRP panels, types/levels of insulation
Well, over a certain age, say 2009 or so, they are all made the same way. So it's just a layout you can deal with but the main overriding factor is damp. They are made from panels that have wooden struts and polystyrene sandwiched between lightweight ply on the inside and alu on the outside. If water gets into this badly enough it rots, and you're in trouble. It can be fixed, but it's a pain.
From 2009 I think Bailey introduced wood-free construction and whilst early ones did leak, stuff just got wet and nothing rotted. So the leaky ones were patched under warranty. Since then most manufs have followed suit, so things are a lot better. But really, aside from that there is nothing to choose between manufs. Most of them have the same three classes of caravan - more basic, lighter and cheaper; medium; and heavy and luxurious.
There are damp-free ones at the lower end, but you need to be luckier. First van was a bit rubbish (very old), second was a badly leaking van with a cover-up job repair that I. had to gut and fix (always buy a van that's been used by holidaymakers who are selling it, never get one that's 'being sold for someone else' from a field), and the most recent one is great and was only £2.3k.
Also bathrooms improve dramatically about 2009-10 onwards. And you want window blinds on all windows. Especially in Scotland in the summer 🙂
As for the upholstery - grit your teeth and bear it! Having said that, more modern ones improve, and in the last year or two they've FINALLY started using tasteful plain fabrics instead of flowery dreadfulness. It's almost worth £18k just for that.
Also, if you fancy it, you can rip up the carpet in an old van and lay laminate style vinyl strips. Makes a massive difference to the niceness of a van. And finally, you can get the cushions re-covered too, would cost you about £5-700 but might be worth it for an otherwise good van.
Don't know if it's already been mentioned but Haynes do a caravan manual which is very useful.
I must say - i did my trailer test AFTER i had bought my camper because there was no combination of my camper and trailer or Landy and trailer i could legally tow anything meaningful with.... 3500kg MAM van plus a 750kg MAM trailer ---- so 450-500kg payload.
I would consider a caravan in place of the red bus if it had to go for some reason for all the reasons that molgrips outlines. and the reason that the whole caravan thing IS cheaper than the big red bus.
Well that sounds eco-friendly!
<devils-advocate>for typical use patterns is it any worse than the loss in fuel economy from towing a shed behind your car?</devils-advocate>
for typical use patterns is it any worse than the loss in fuel economy from towing a shed behind your car?
Interesting question actually!
Our fuel economy goes down from high 50s to low 30s mpg with the caravan on, so probably a drop of 55-60%. Not sure what that is in kg of CO2.
We impulse bought an Eriba 430 Triton advertised in a car park whilst on holiday in France.
Saved about 7k (1/2) on the uk dealer price , we were not looking for a van , I had a towbar and spare rear plate in the car.
Would not have looked at it if it was the normal white box , but the mini Airstream look made it interesting.
Has been great, its small but confortable for 3 , easy to tow as its thin (2m) went back to France in it last year and spent 3 weeks in several different places on "tour"
They are a bit niche , but they do what they are supposed to do and keep their value so well that even buying a new one is not mad if you give up and sell it.
Constructed with a steel space frame so very sturdy but light , aerodynamic so less load on the towing vehicle, long drawbar for bike rack.
Definitely much cheaper bought somewhere like Holland and brought back - there is no import tax or registration , at the moment , of course after the end of year it could change..
Our fuel economy goes down from high 50s to low 30s mpg with the caravan on, so probably a drop of 55-60%. Not sure what that is in kg of CO2.
Assuming it's a diesel, 50 mpg is 23.82 kg of CO2 per 100 miles; 30 mpg is 39.69 kg of CO2 per 100 miles
(sauce)
That's a difference of 15.87kg of CO2 per 100 miles travelled.
The current UK CO2 equivalent for electricity is ~0.2kg/kWh, so the difference in fuel consumption for a 100 mile drive will generate the same CO2 as running a 1kW fan heater 24 hours a day for over 3 days.
so the difference in fuel consumption for a 100 mile drive will generate the same CO2 as running a 1kW fan heater 24 hours a day for over 3 days.
And I bet a mobile shed-ist is using a heater at the same time of year anyway 🙂
And I bet a mobile shed-ist is using a heater at the same time of year anyway
Yes but far less, as caravans have much better insulation meaning that they stay warmer without a heater and when one is required it won't need to be on much.
the difference in fuel consumption for a 100 mile drive will generate the same CO2 as running a 1kW fan heater 24 hours a day for over 3 days.
Or 8 hours a night for 9 days. So it's broadly comparable, depending on how long your holiday is and what sort of power your heater is.
Mobile sheds tend to have gas heaters, and insulation so get some of that efficiency back - depending of course on how far you traveled to get cold.